Regional A teams

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It looks like the superclubs have now hijacked the B&I Cup for themselves now that the LV is over.

Richard Holland is about as slimy as you get. Look at the email he sent. What a tool.

LD

You want: West Wales, East Wales, Mid Wales, North Wales

What competition would the Ospreys play in?

Chunky Norwich wrote:LD

You want: West Wales, East Wales, Mid Wales, North Wales

What competition would the Ospreys play in?

They would play in the Pro12 under the banner of West Wales.

Also, sorry to be pedantic, but they are not called THE Ospreys, the are called Ospreys, you do not call Llanelli, THE Llanelli do you ?

LordDowlais wrote:
They would play in the Pro12 under the banner of West Wales.

:

But you said:

LordDowlais wrote:No clubs will go out of business.

So how are Scarlets and Ospreys still going to remain in business if there is only 1 profesional club?

Chunky Norwich wrote:So how are Scarlets and Ospreys still going to remain in business if there is only 1 profesional club?

And what I said is true, but for some reason you are trying to be over clever and trip me up. Scarlets and Ospreys are NOT clubs, well they are not supposed to be anyway, no clubs will go out of business, you will still have your Llanelli's and Swansea's and Cardiff's and Neath's of this world, but they would be playing in the Welsh Prem.

Scarlets and Ospreys the regions, would merge to become West Wales.

LordDowlais wrote:

Scarlets and Ospreys the regions, would merge to become West Wales.

Perhaps we could merge Barcelona and Real Madrid while we're at it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Perhaps we could merge Barcelona and Real Madrid while we're at it.

Or Cardiff and Ponty. The same argument for both situations, except one is real.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:East Wales - Blues & Dragons
Mid Wales (Aka South) - Ospreys
West Wales - Scarlets
North Wales - RGC

Get a bleeding map out and look!

No, this is how I see it:-

Mid Wales:- All the valleys, Mid Glamorgan, North Gwent, Neath, Bridgend, Brecon, Newtown all of Powys.
West Wales:- Llanelli and Swansea, West Glamorgan all of Dyfed.
East Wales:- Cardiff and Newport, all of Monmothshire and all of the Vale of Glamorgan.
North Wales:- Everything left up north. Anglesey, Clwyd, Gwynedd.

That would be my dream. But alas, I cannot see this ever happening.

Ah so there is a huge sticking point then. I will never turn up to watch a team that is branded as West Wales that involves Glamorgan

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I will never turn up to watch a team that is branded as West Wales that involves Glamorgan

Why ?

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I will never turn up to watch a team that is branded as West Wales that involves Glamorgan

Why ?

^ This just shows the mentality we are dealing with in Wales.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I will never turn up to watch a team that is branded as West Wales that involves Glamorgan

Why ?

^ This just shows the mentality we are dealing with in Wales.

Because it is not West, the same as I would not follow a Wales team that involved England.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Because it is not West, the same as I would not follow a Wales team that involved England.

Yep, ok fair enough, just the same as Ponty is not Cardiff, so when you have a go at the Pontypridd fans next time, just remember what you have said here.

Would these new regions have a single home base - thus alienating a large proportion of the catchment area

Or would they play in multiple stadia - thus increasing costs and eliminating the ability to sell season tickets.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Because it is not West, the same as I would not follow a Wales team that involved England.

Yep, ok fair enough, just the same as Ponty is not Cardiff, so when you have a go at the Pontypridd fans next time, just remember what you have said here.

Why, when did Scarletspiderman turn the stadium lights off when the opposition were receiving the league trophy?

THAT'S the sort of thing that gets people's backs up. Nobody would argue against standing up for what you believe in.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Because it is not West, the same as I would not follow a Wales team that involved England.

Yep, ok fair enough, just the same as Ponty is not Cardiff, so when you have a go at the Pontypridd fans next time, just remember what you have said here.

Yawn!  No disrespect meant to you mate, but your really starting to get old with this now.  The dig at Ponty fans was a comment saying that if Scarlets fans refused to support a team that were representing their geographic region, but not called the Scarlets, that they would be no different than Ponty fans not following their geographic region because it is not Ponty. I do understand Ponty fans position, and it is cack that they are lumped in with the Blues, I have tried to be sympathetic about it to. But truth is there is only so much whinging and cack flinging people can take.


London Tiger - there will be no new regions.  As much as a few people would have you believe that the state of welsh pro rugby is dire, and that the regions are just super-clubs and need reforming, there are no plans, nor are there likely to be any, to chance the set up.

LondonTiger wrote:Would these new regions have a single home base - thus alienating a large proportion of the catchment area

Or would they play in multiple stadia - thus increasing costs and eliminating the ability to sell season tickets.

This is why it's very pie in the sky. For example also, why would Cross Keys RFC feel any affiliation to a "Mid Wales" team?

Risca Rev wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Would these new regions have a single home base - thus alienating a large proportion of the catchment area

Or would they play in multiple stadia - thus increasing costs and eliminating the ability to sell season tickets.

This is why it's very pie in the sky. For example also, why would Cross Keys RFC feel any affiliation to a "Mid Wales" team?

.

Simple because they would be told to. After all their are Mid Wales, it is on Moffet's, oh sorry Lord's, list of where places fall in Wales.

I agree, we are stuck with what we have now, why waste another decade trying to get it right, like I said earlier, it is just a dream I would like to see happen, but I do not think it ever will, but at the same time it has not stopped me supporting pro rugby in Wales. I just cannot fathom the double standards of certain members on this forum, in fact I find myself at a bemusement with it.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

LondonTiger wrote:Would these new regions have a single home base - thus alienating a large proportion of the catchment area

Or would they play in multiple stadia - thus increasing costs and eliminating the ability to sell season tickets

If we had what I would want and that is purely East Wales and West Wales regions (with the potentially creating a North Wales one down the line) then I would be quite them playing purely out of the Arms Park and the Liberty but I think there will always be opportunities to play games at other grounds

I think even if you didn't get great crowds in the Pro12 (or whatever it would be by then) both teams would be a success in Europe (especially the West which would be a beast of a team if it existed at the moment) which would create plenty of sellouts

As I also said as well I think with only 2 regions there would be a good chance to invest and promote a strong Welsh Premiership so there would be opportunities to revive Welsh club rugby. This would give us a strong club, regional and national game

LordDowlais wrote:I agree, we are stuck with what we have now, why waste another decade trying to get it right, like I said earlier, it is just a dream I would like to see happen, but I do not think it ever will, but at the same time it has not stopped me supporting pro rugby in Wales. I just cannot fathom the double standards of certain members on this forum, in fact I find myself at a bemusement with it.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

So travelling 120 miles every home game to my regional home ground and not wanting to make it 135 miles (or more) by adding Swansea etc to the region, yet not understanding why a fan can not travel 20-50 miles to their regional ground is double standards.  Fair enough.

Problem is I guess we all have our own ideas of what we would like but nothing is going to change

An East Wales region playing out of Cardiff would suit me because I live in the city but I guess for some people it would be a long way to travel

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I agree, we are stuck with what we have now, why waste another decade trying to get it right, like I said earlier, it is just a dream I would like to see happen, but I do not think it ever will, but at the same time it has not stopped me supporting pro rugby in Wales. I just cannot fathom the double standards of certain members on this forum, in fact I find myself at a bemusement with it.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

So travelling 120 miles every home game to my regional home ground and not wanting to make it 135 miles (or more) by adding Swansea etc to the region, yet not understanding why a fan can not travel 20-50 miles to their regional ground is double standards.  Fair enough.

Nothing to do with travelling, you said you would not support a West Wales region that has West Glamorgan in its region as you do not see it as part of West Wales, well Pontypridd are in Mid Glamorgan and Cardiff is in South Glamorgan, two different counties, but Pontypridd fans are being told to Embrace your region, support Cardiff, why should they ? Perhaps they see things the same way as you do.

I'm just curious but can anyone tell me what Pontypridd's attendences actually are? How many fans do they get through the gate for home games?

Shifty wrote:I'm just curious but can anyone tell me what Pontypridd's attendences actually are?  How many fans do they get through the gate for home games?

About a thousand or so per game I think, I will check the WWW and find out if you want.

Shifty wrote:I'm just curious but can anyone tell me what Pontypridd's attendences actually are?  How many fans do they get through the gate for home games?

They got 2.2k for their recent league final. And in the programme notes, they openly criticised the gates of the Scarlets - whose last home game : 10,000 people attended.

LordDowlais wrote:

Shifty wrote:I'm just curious but can anyone tell me what Pontypridd's attendences actually are?  How many fans do they get through the gate for home games?

About a thousand or so per game I think, I will check the WWW and find out if you want.

I've looked on their website a few times and never found a number on there.

LordDowlais wrote:

Shifty wrote:I'm just curious but can anyone tell me what Pontypridd's attendences actually are?  How many fans do they get through the gate for home games?

About a thousand or so per game I think, I will check the WWW and find out if you want.

I'd say more than that to be honest. Plus the bigger games have attracted about 4 thousand although they are very few and far between

I don't see the relevance though Ponty are a semi-professional side and their attendances do not reflect on what the regional situation should be

Steffan wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Shifty wrote:I'm just curious but can anyone tell me what Pontypridd's attendences actually are?  How many fans do they get through the gate for home games?

About a thousand or so per game I think, I will check the WWW and find out if you want.

I'd say more than that to be honest. Plus the bigger games have attracted about 4 thousand although they are very few and far between

I don't see the relevance though Ponty are a semi-professional side and their attendances do not reflect on what the regional situation should be

I reckon the Ponty V Merthyr could well be a very high attendance, to quite large towns, only a few miles apart, they should both bring a lot of fans with them.

Can I ask a question, what do Ponty supporters actually want ?
You are the best league club in Wales, have a reasonable stadium and a good support for your level, so what else do you need? Why do they continue to pine for something that is unattainable? I can fully understand that you don't like Cardiff and that you feel as though you've been cheated but its been over 10 years, so maybe time to look forwards and not backwards - carry on supporting Ponty and enojoying your rugby.
There is never (unless there are huge changes in the way Welsh rugby is structured and financed) ever going to be another PRO12 level side based in the valleys, it's just not viable, and don't talk about business plans, every single one I've seen on here involves the bulk of the money coming from either local or central government and the WRU, and that money just doesn't exist.
Both the proposals for Merthyr and the Ponty based Valleys business plan are predicated on there being millions of pounds on the table from the taxpayers purse and that money isn't there and unless there's a major fiscal policy shift in London and Cardiff it will never be there as the economic problems in the valleys area are not going to be solved by spending money on a rugby club.
If there was the possibilty for a top level team operating out of the valleys and making a profit there would be plenty of people queuing up to run it.

LordDowlais wrote:I reckon the Ponty V Merthyr could well be a very high attendance, to quite large towns, only a few miles apart, they should both bring a lot of fans with them

Possibly although I have no idea what Merthyr rugbys fan base is like as all the people I know from the town support either Merthyr Town or Cardiff City (or both) football clubs

I think nailed it their matey

They are like a dog chasing a car, they wouldn't know what do to with it if they caught it. They couldnt afford to run it either

Irish Londoner wrote: carry on supporting Ponty and enojoying your rugby.

I am thanks, I am fully aware that there will never be a fully pro side in the valleys, and I do go and watch Cardiff Blues, quite a lot, but I just cannot fathom the double standards of people on here, especially when they have never been through what the Ponty fans have, and especially when they would not support a team that is based elsewhere or has a part of Wales they think should not be in the region in its catchment area. But they expect Pontypridd fans to do it.

Steffan wrote:I'd say more than that to be honest. Plus the bigger games have attracted about 4 thousand although they are very few and far between

I don't see the relevance though Ponty are a semi-professional side and their attendances do not reflect on what the regional situation should be

I wasn't going to use the numbers to have a crack at Ponty, I am genuinely interested.

I personally don't see Pontypridd RFC as a viable regional entity at the moment, and in my eyes I'd rather see 2 professional Welsh regions, one in the south, coached by Warren Gatland playing at the Millenium stadium, and another in North Wales, playing smaller games in Parc Erias, and larger games in the Race course in Wrexham, with both teams joining the English Aviva Premiership, with centrally contracted players. Then below that elite structure try and get a professional premiership going. Basically everyone can support their local clubs and then support a mini Wales at the capital of Welsh rugby if they choose too.

I don't think regional rugby is working and it still continues to divide the Welsh rugby public too much, though of course everyone has the choice to support whatever team they choose.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I agree, we are stuck with what we have now, why waste another decade trying to get it right, like I said earlier, it is just a dream I would like to see happen, but I do not think it ever will, but at the same time it has not stopped me supporting pro rugby in Wales. I just cannot fathom the double standards of certain members on this forum, in fact I find myself at a bemusement with it.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

So travelling 120 miles every home game to my regional home ground and not wanting to make it 135 miles (or more) by adding Swansea etc to the region, yet not understanding why a fan can not travel 20-50 miles to their regional ground is double standards.  Fair enough.

Nothing to do with travelling, you said you would not support a West Wales region that has West Glamorgan in its region as you do not see it as part of West Wales, well Pontypridd are in Mid Glamorgan and Cardiff is in South Glamorgan, two different counties, but Pontypridd fans are being told to Embrace your region, support Cardiff, why should they ? Perhaps they see things the same way as you do.

I am in PEMBROKESHIRE, the Scarlets are in CARMARTHENSHIRE. Try again

Irish Londoner wrote:Can I ask a question, what do Ponty supporters actually want ?

Depends on the supporter


You got some like me who would like East and West Wales regions

You got some who would like to be embraced by the Blues

You got some (mainly the older ones) just happy enough to turn up and watch Ponty whatever standard

You got some of the youngsters like my nephew who supports Ponty and Cardiff Blues

You got some who what a region called Pontypridd who play all games and Sardis Road in Black & White

You got some who will never be happy


I think when we start generalising as to 'what do Ponty supporters actually want' things start getting a bit silly

Steffan wrote:Possibly although I have no idea what Merthyr rugbys fan base is like as all the people I know from the town support either Merthyr Town or Cardiff City (or both) football clubs

Yes there is a lot of football fans up here, but do not underestimate the power of the bandwagon, as soon as Merthyr RFC start doing well, and news is already spreading around the town quicker than a shared giro, that Merthyr RFC are getting this that and the other, then I predict quite the following for Methyr RFC over the next few years, especially if they are winning.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I am in PEMBROKESHIRE, the Scarlets are in CARMARTHENSHIRE.  Try again

Please don't start a capaign for Narberth to be the Pembrokeshire region!

Steffan wrote:You got some of the youngsters like my nephew who supports Ponty and Cardiff Blues

I fall under that one, and more so the youngster bit.

Shifty wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I am in PEMBROKESHIRE, the Scarlets are in CARMARTHENSHIRE.  Try again

Please don't start a capaign for Narberth to be the Pembrokeshire region!

Pembrokeshire, the most beautiful place in Wales.

Steffan wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:Can I ask a question, what do Ponty supporters actually want ?

Depends on the supporter


You got some like me who would like East and West Wales regions

You got some who would like to be embraced by the Blues

You got some (mainly the older ones) just happy enough to turn up and watch Ponty whatever standard

You got some of the youngsters like my nephew who supports Ponty and Cardiff Blues

You got some who what a region called Pontypridd who play all games and Sardis Road in Black & White

You got some who will never be happy


I think when we start generalising as to 'what do Ponty supporters actually want' things start getting a bit silly

Fair play, best post I have read on here in ages.

I guess Ponty Supporters do get pigeon holed into the 'never a blue' category, purely because they are the more vocal lot. A case of everyone getting tarred with the same brush, which probably isn't fair.

LordDowlais wrote:

Shifty wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I am in PEMBROKESHIRE, the Scarlets are in CARMARTHENSHIRE.  Try again

Please don't start a capaign for Narberth to be the Pembrokeshire region!

Pembrokeshire, the most beautiful place in Wales.

Don't try being all complementary now that your 'double standards' argument has failed shame that some parts of Pembs are really lovely (Preselli Mountains, Tenby etc), then some are real holes (Milford Haven, Pembroke Dock, Refineries).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:Can I ask a question, what do Ponty supporters actually want ?

Depends on the supporter


You got some like me who would like East and West Wales regions

You got some who would like to be embraced by the Blues

You got some (mainly the older ones) just happy enough to turn up and watch Ponty whatever standard

You got some of the youngsters like my nephew who supports Ponty and Cardiff Blues

You got some who what a region called Pontypridd who play all games and Sardis Road in Black & White

You got some who will never be happy


I think when we start generalising as to 'what do Ponty supporters actually want' things start getting a bit silly

Fair play, best post I have read on here in ages.

I guess Ponty Supporters do get pigeon holed into the 'never a blue' category, purely because they are the more vocal lot.  A case of everyone getting tarred with the same brush, which probably isn't fair.

Again, they may get more sympathy and understanding if they didn't have a village idiot as their mouth piece on Twitter and writing their programe waffle

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I guess Ponty Supporters do get pigeon holed into the 'never a blue' category, purely because they are the more vocal lot. A case of everyone getting tarred with the same brush, which probably isn't fair.

At last, some understanding, that is all I asked for, I too get peeved with the idiots down there, but not everybody is like it.

munkian wrote:Again, they may get more sympathy and understanding if they didn't have a village idiot as their mouth piece on Twitter and writing their programe waffle

I agree with this as well, but he is just acting up to the mob.

munkian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I guess Ponty Supporters do get pigeon holed into the 'never a blue' category, purely because they are the more vocal lot.  A case of everyone getting tarred with the same brush, which probably isn't fair.

Again, they may get more sympathy and understanding if they didn't have a village idiot as their mouth piece on Twitter and writing their programe waffle

That is true but we all have our village idiot (or deemed to be the village idiot) involved in our setups somewhere.

LD, why are you a Ponty Supporter though, shouldn't you be a Merthyr supporter? I mean isn't the Merthyr v Ponty game going to be crossed allegiances?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

munkian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I guess Ponty Supporters do get pigeon holed into the 'never a blue' category, purely because they are the more vocal lot.  A case of everyone getting tarred with the same brush, which probably isn't fair.

Again, they may get more sympathy and understanding if they didn't have a village idiot as their mouth piece on Twitter and writing their programe waffle

That is true but we all have our village idiot (or deemed to be the village idiot) involved in our setups somewhere.

Not to that extent, and none so public

munkian wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:Can I ask a question, what do Ponty supporters actually want ?

Depends on the supporter


You got some like me who would like East and West Wales regions

You got some who would like to be embraced by the Blues

You got some (mainly the older ones) just happy enough to turn up and watch Ponty whatever standard

You got some of the youngsters like my nephew who supports Ponty and Cardiff Blues

You got some who what a region called Pontypridd who play all games and Sardis Road in Black & White

You got some who will never be happy


I think when we start generalising as to 'what do Ponty supporters actually want' things start getting a bit silly

Fair play, best post I have read on here in ages.

I guess Ponty Supporters do get pigeon holed into the 'never a blue' category, purely because they are the more vocal lot.  A case of everyone getting tarred with the same brush, which probably isn't fair.

Again, they may get more sympathy and understanding if they didn't have a village idiot as their mouth piece on Twitter and writing their programe waffle

I'd tend to agree somewhat. There undoubtedly is a wide spectrum of mindsets amongst Ponty fans. It would just be nice to see more of it in evidence, and the club be prepared to print a balanced opinion in its programmes or on its official website.

Publicly telling Owen to shut up would be a start. even Moffett told him to fupp off

munkian wrote:Again, they may get more sympathy and understanding if they didn't have a village idiot as their mouth piece on Twitter and writing their programe waffle

True. But then neither myself or the gang of friends and family I go to watch Ponty matches with tell this person what to write or have any power over what he says...yet you like to lump us all in with this village idiot. Try to accept that all Ponty fans are individuals and we are not one entity who all think and say the same things. It's this type of generalisation that causes bad attitudes towards nations or religions

Are all North Koreans like Kim Jong-un...NO

Are all Russians like Vladimir Putin...NO

So stop associating the acts of one or several individuals with everyone else involved in Ponty rugby club. It's narrow minded and damn right insulting to all the decent people who support the club

Steffan wrote:

munkian wrote:Again, they may get more sympathy and understanding if they didn't have a village idiot as their mouth piece on Twitter and writing their programe waffle

True. But then neither myself or the gang of friends and family I go to watch Ponty matches with tell this person what to write or have any power over what he says...yet you like to lump us all in with this village idiot. Try to accept that all Ponty fans are individuals and we are not one entity who all think and say the same things. It's this type of generalisation that causes bad attitudes towards nations or religions

Are all North Koreans like Kim Jong-un...NO

Are all Russians like Vladimir Putin...NO

So stop associating the acts of one or several individuals with everyone else involved in Ponty rugby club. It's narrow minded and damn right insulting to all the decent people who support the club

Sorry, but it's up to the individual Pontypridd fan base to tell their own club that they are behaving inapporporiately. I highly doubt this occurs. More like they are egged on by the rabid disciples.

Chunky Norwich wrote:I highly doubt this occurs. More like they are egged on by the rabid disciples

So in other words you are assuming then?

Let me let you in to a little secret...probably about 95% if not more of Ponty rugby fans like myself just turn up and watch games and have a few pints (and a cheese burger in my fat case). Those who have a say in the running of the club are a small band of people and I personally along with my friends and family have no contact at all with any officials or people who write in programmes

So I am not sure as to who these 'rabid disciples' egging them on are