Welsh World Cup Squad part 2

First topic message reminder :

Anyone else think Ll Williams and Anscombe did well when they came on? Would definitely take them over Phillips and Hook at the moment.

Seagultaf wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:i think you are about right.

Ball and Davies in the forwards Mathew Morgan, Amos and Eli Walker are the dilemmas that I would be considering.

Do we need King? Should we take an extra back or lock...?

If they go for 5 props (2 loose 3 tight) then they can take 4 locks. King brings a line out presence that Ball and Bradley do not, but I would be worried playing a flanker in the second row against one of the top teams. Moriarty may get in on his ability to play 6 and 8. Despite his illusive running, I would not have Morgan anywhere near the squad, defence too weak for 15 and can't control a game at 10.

Might take Morgan for two reasons, 1). Uraguay and 2). Training our defence.

King has not impressed me enough for Wales. I think he is an asset to the Ospreys, but hasn't contributed at the same level for Wales.

Is rather have Moriarty or Davies with Tips on the bench. If Moriarty then for scrums we could put a lump like Lydiate in the lock birth as cover.

It will be a tough day in the board room for the selectors today.

bedfordwelsh wrote:If they go for 5 props I think it will be 3 loose and 2 tight.

No way, a good tight head can play loose head but will struggle the other way around. Add to that Samson's fitness doubts, Jarvis will go as third tight head maybe at Rob Evans expense?

Seagultaf wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If they go for 5 props I think it will be 3 loose and 2 tight.

No way, a good tight head can play loose head but will struggle the other way around. Add to that Samson's fitness doubts, Jarvis will go as third tight head maybe at Rob Evans expense?

We don't have any props who have recent experience of playing on the opposite side of the scrum.

Although Jenkins and james have played tighthead it was a very long time ago and under different rules.

From The Sydney Morning Herald, an Australian perspective on yesterday's game.

http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/rugby-world-cup/rugby-world-cup-2015-wales-are-better-equipped-than-england-to-handle-david-pocock-and-michael-hooper-20150829-gjaubr#ixzz3kI8JdsGj

And from fox

http://m.foxsports.com.au/rugby/rugby-world-cup-wales-scotland-japan-post-warm-up-wins/story-e6frf4pu-1227504871947?sv=d031961600d7d04936f3708477b39935

Seagultaf wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If they go for 5 props I think it will be 3 loose and 2 tight.

No way, a good tight head can play loose head but will struggle the other way around. Add to that Samson's fitness doubts, Jarvis will go as third tight head maybe at Rob Evans expense?

Are there many that have done it that way around, most that I know of have gone from loose to tight. For what its worth I would take 6 but I think if he does take 5 if will be 3 loose 2 tight.

I am not normally one for moving players out of position but I have such little confidence in Jarvis and especially Andrews I would risk James or Jenkins there if need be. Even if Maes totally disagrees

bedfordwelsh wrote:I am not normally one for moving players out of position but I have such little confidence in Jarvis and especially Andrews I would risk James or Jenkins there if need be.  Even if Maes totally disagrees

Mate I don't think you can do that within the rules. They are not regular tighthead a, they haven't played there for years.

"During a match the team must be able, on the first occasion an injury to Loose Head prop, Tight Head prop or Hooker occur in the match, to replace the injured front row player with a suitably trained and experienced front row player in order to be able to continue with contested scrums."

The three (3) substituted front row players may replace any front row player when injured, temporarily suspended or sent off provided the replacement player is suitably trained and experienced for that specific front row position. (Tight Head, Loose Head or Hooker)

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/content.php?295-IRB-clears-up-use-of-the-bench

You have to have a full compliment on the bench nominated in each position so if they nominated lets say James as their tighthead then it can be done.

Where I think you can't is if say James had been nominated as the l/head replacement that day.

bedfordwelsh wrote:You have to have a full compliment on the bench nominated in each position so if they nominated lets say James as their tighthead then it can be done.

Where I think you can't is if say James had been nominated as the l/head replacement that day.

The rules state that player has to have experience. I would presume that means that player has played that position at least once in the last five years?

Even if they were legally allowed to be nominated out of position, James and Jenkins would get killed at three.

Jarvis played well when he came on.

Does it state a time scale or that it has to be under the new laws? We will just have to agree to dis agree on this one Maes as I would still rather have one of them cover than either Jarvis or Andrews.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Does it state a time scale or that it has to be under the new laws?  We will just have to agree to dis agree on this one Maes as I would still rather have one of them cover than either Jarvis or Andrews.

Why?

They would be awful! You keep persisting with a point that if made five years ago would make sense but now makes none. Both prop ositions are technical and you need differencing skills and strengths to perform well in either.

Jenkins and james have played tighthead in their careers, but to suggest they could just step in without having played there for so long is ludicrous.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Does it state a time scale or that it has to be under the new laws?  We will just have to agree to dis agree on this one Maes as I would still rather have one of them cover than either Jarvis or Andrews.

Why?

They would be awful! You keep persisting with a point that if made five years ago would make sense but now makes none. Both prop ositions are technical and you need differencing skills and strengths to perform well in either.

Jenkins and james have played tighthead in their careers, but to suggest they could just step in without having played there for so long is ludicrous.

No more ludicrous than picking Andrews there, ok Jarvis maybe so but I just have so little confidence in either of them that I would risk James or Jenkins there and if they go with 5 props (hope they don't) then I think the coaches think so as well.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Does it state a time scale or that it has to be under the new laws?  We will just have to agree to dis agree on this one Maes as I would still rather have one of them cover than either Jarvis or Andrews.

Why?

They would be awful! You keep persisting with a point that if made five years ago would make sense but now makes none. Both prop ositions are technical and you need differencing skills and strengths to perform well in either.

Jenkins and james have played tighthead in their careers, but to suggest they could just step in without having played there for so long is ludicrous.

No more ludicrous than picking Andrews there, ok Jarvis maybe so but I just have so little confidence in either of them that I would risk James or Jenkins there and if they go with 5 props (hope they don't) then I think the coaches think so as well.

I think it is. Andrews would do a better job than james or Jenkins at tighthead because he has at least played there under the new laws at international level. He is 5th choice for Wales when everyone is fit and Jenkins and james are behind him as tighthead options.

Why do you think that james and Jenkins would be better options at tighthead than Jarvis or Andrews?

I just feel that an International prop (even out of position) with 115 and 61 caps respectively at the top level of the game would be a better option than a prop who can hardly make his club side.

As I mentioned I hope they take 6 props and the 3rd choice T/Head would be Jarvis so am less concerned about him as such but I have yet to speak to anyone who can figure what the coaching set up see in Andrews that we are all missing.

If he takes then this discussion is obviously null and void but whilst they are trying to juggle the squad I think it will be an option they will give serious consideration to.

I guess mobility is the reason that we are seeing the Welsh coaches favour props other than Adam Jones.

They want Wales to play a faster and more athletic game. I think we will all enjoy watching a Wales team try to emulate that kind of play rather than a more stoic game.

Saying that though, looking at the current British weather I don't think running rugby will be quite so easy. Lots of rain wet pitches dropped balls and scrummaging will come to the fore

This is who I would take

Jenkins
James
Evans
Owens
Baldwin
Dacey
Lee
Francis
Jones
Charteris
Davies
King
Lydiate
Warburton
Tipuric
Faletau
Moriarty

Webb
Davies
Williams
Biggar
Priestland
Anscombe
North
Roberts
Williams
Liam Williams
Halfpenny
Morgan
Amos
Walker

GD,

I would be happy wit that though I don't think he will take Amos and Walker, I do think Cuthbert will sneak in. A lot depends on fitness of Lee, Williams and Anscombe.

If Anscombe is injured I can see Morgan going as the third fly half.

They are getting ready

Live link to the announcement

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-rugby-world-cup-squad-9960044

A few surprises there.. Day, Charteris AWJ and Jake Ball

Mathew Morgan in cuthbert in too

Amos in, Cory Allen over Tyler Morgan

Forwards: Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Paul James (Ospreys), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Dominic Day (Bath), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues).

Backs: Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Ospreys), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins), Scott Williams (Scarlets Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Matthew Morgan (Bristol), George North (Northampton Saints), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Some big surprises there, not sure why Dom Day is involved, taking 5 locks seems insane. None of them can really play anywhere else either, AWJ has played 6 a few times but that is about it.

Also, only 2 hookers? I thought they had to have 3?

Was half expecting Cory Allen to stay despite not playing for almost 8 months, if he is doing well in training Gatland probably trusts his defence more than Morgan.

Gutted there is no Anscombe, we will be in trouble if we get some injuries in the backs.

Apparently Gatland is considering playing players from outside the 31 against Italy. Seems strange

Strange selection. No 8 cover either.

Looks like I guessed right about 2 loose and 3 tight. Jarvis plays both sides for Ospreys so is the likely cover for loose head. Very surprised at Matthew Morgan, not in the top 5 full backs or outside halls, can't tackle and can't control a game, Gatland must see something I can't!

The other big surprises for me are Cory Allen, I can't remember the last time I saw him play, is he fit? Also Dom Day, what a story, discarded by Scarlets struggles to get into Bath 1st team and now in the World Cup squad, says a lot for Wales lack of strength in depth.

Finally, the two hookers are going to be busy, likely that they will have to play every game!

Risca Rev wrote:Strange selection. No 8 cover either.

Yeah the lack of backrow options for the Uruguay game is concerning

I guess they must be keen to rotate second rowers around a bit?

So Cuthbert gets in the squad. Did not think he would get in, did not seem to do much in the last game.

Mathew Morgan, 3rd fly half?

Just 2 Hookers in the squad? lets hope neither of them pick up an injurie.

I guess it will be a question of wait and see how the team/squad goes.

Honestly is this squad the best that Wales have?

Will the dropping of philips, hibbard, and hook come back to bite him (Gatland)in the but because of the experience they have?

To be fair they are only an injury and a phone call away, but the makeup of the squad does seem unusual

I don't know if it just me, but the team/squad looks more like an experimental squad, rather than a top international squad.

I could be wrong. I usaly am in these circumstances.

wales606 wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Strange selection. No 8 cover either.

Yeah the lack of backrow options for the Uruguay game is concerning

Faletau will play every game no worries

Well fair play to Gatland he does like to pull a few surprises and this one no different.

For me the surprises are:

Was hoping for 6 props
Only 2 hookers
Dom Day in, would have used King as 2nd row cover and had Moriarty in as backrow option
Cory Allen in over Tyler Norgan, I do rate Allen and guess he has bit more experience than Morgan but he's had no game of late due to injury

I think Cuthbert can count himself lucky but with M Morgan being included at expense of Anscombes injury I guess he wanted another big lump as opposed to Walker.

majesticimperialman wrote:I don't know if it just me, but the team/squad looks more like an experimental squad, rather than a top international squad.

I could be wrong. I usaly am in these circumstances.

maj,

Where do you think its experiemental?

I am not too sure to be honest. i think it is because of some of the new name's in the squad.

Some odd calls here, I don't know what he's thinking? No need to go into it as it has already been said. But the long list of locks does really stand out. I guess he's looking to wrap AWJ and Charteris in cotton wool - makes sense as there aren't many better second row's than that.

wales606 wrote:Apparently Gatland is considering playing players from outside the 31 against Italy. Seems strange

This... Very, very strange if true. It makes the warm-up game irrelevant.

Yeah I just posted that on the Italy match thread seems point if its true.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Honestly is this squad the best that Wales have?

Will the dropping of philips, hibbard, and hook come back to bite him (Gatland)in the but because of the experience they have?

Who do you think should be in/out?

No. Not at all.

mikey_dragon wrote:Some odd calls here, I don't know what he's thinking? No need to go into it as it has already been said. But the long list of locks does really stand out. I guess he's looking to wrap AWJ and Charteris in cotton wool - makes sense as there aren't many better second row's than that.

wales606 wrote:Apparently Gatland is considering playing players from outside the 31 against Italy. Seems strange

This... Very, very strange if true. It makes the warm-up game irrelevant.

To a degree I think the Italy match is of subjective relevance to Wales. It's more an exhibition send off for the WRU.

Wouldn't really peg much of a big deal on it.

Maybe just the lads who still need a run around will play. The rest will be non squad members.

majesticimperialman wrote:

I could be wrong. I usaly am in these circumstances.

Yep - you guessed it.

majesticimperialman wrote:I am not too sure to be honest. i think it is because of some of the new name's in the squad.

There are a few new names which is good but the big names are all still there as well and our starting XV in the big two games will be far from experimental.

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Some odd calls here, I don't know what he's thinking? No need to go into it as it has already been said. But the long list of locks does really stand out. I guess he's looking to wrap AWJ and Charteris in cotton wool - makes sense as there aren't many better second row's than that.

wales606 wrote:Apparently Gatland is considering playing players from outside the 31 against Italy. Seems strange

This... Very, very strange if true. It makes the warm-up game irrelevant.

To a degree I think the Italy match is of subjective relevance to Wales. It's more an exhibition send off for the WRU.

Wouldn't really peg much of a big deal on it.

Maybe just the lads who still need a run around will play. The rest will be non squad members.

Am guessing that the likes of Jarvis, Day, King, Ll Williams, Morgan and Allen will all play then rest a mix and match

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Some odd calls here, I don't know what he's thinking? No need to go into it as it has already been said. But the long list of locks does really stand out. I guess he's looking to wrap AWJ and Charteris in cotton wool - makes sense as there aren't many better second row's than that.

wales606 wrote:Apparently Gatland is considering playing players from outside the 31 against Italy. Seems strange

This... Very, very strange if true. It makes the warm-up game irrelevant.

To a degree I think the Italy match is of subjective relevance to Wales. It's more an exhibition send off for the WRU.

Wouldn't really peg much of a big deal on it.

Maybe just the lads who still need a run around will play. The rest will be non squad members.

Exhibition send off? It's our last warm-up before we enter a major competition. Our first team needs more game time so they can continue to improve. Putting in players outside of the 31 prevents that from happening, and it surely can't be good for morale.

I would like to see something along the lines

James
Baldwin
Francis
Ball
Charteris
King
Faletau (who else can cover if need be)?
Warburton

Davies
Priestland

Amos
Allen
Sc Williams
Cuthbert

Morgan

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Some odd calls here, I don't know what he's thinking? No need to go into it as it has already been said. But the long list of locks does really stand out. I guess he's looking to wrap AWJ and Charteris in cotton wool - makes sense as there aren't many better second row's than that.

wales606 wrote:Apparently Gatland is considering playing players from outside the 31 against Italy. Seems strange

This... Very, very strange if true. It makes the warm-up game irrelevant.

To a degree I think the Italy match is of subjective relevance to Wales. It's more an exhibition send off for the WRU.

Wouldn't really peg much of a big deal on it.

Maybe just the lads who still need a run around will play. The rest will be non squad members.

Exhibition send off? It's our last warm-up before we enter a major competition. Our first team needs more game time so they can continue to improve. Putting in players outside of the 31 prevents that from happening, and it surely can't be good for morale.

From midnight on 31st August players from outside the squad are not allowed to train with the squad.

Cyril wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Some odd calls here, I don't know what he's thinking? No need to go into it as it has already been said. But the long list of locks does really stand out. I guess he's looking to wrap AWJ and Charteris in cotton wool - makes sense as there aren't many better second row's than that.

wales606 wrote:Apparently Gatland is considering playing players from outside the 31 against Italy. Seems strange

This... Very, very strange if true. It makes the warm-up game irrelevant.

To a degree I think the Italy match is of subjective relevance to Wales. It's more an exhibition send off for the WRU.

Wouldn't really peg much of a big deal on it.

Maybe just the lads who still need a run around will play. The rest will be non squad members.

Exhibition send off? It's our last warm-up before we enter a major competition. Our first team needs more game time so they can continue to improve. Putting in players outside of the 31 prevents that from happening, and it surely can't be good for morale.

From midnight on 31st August players from outside the squad are not allowed to train with the squad.

Maybe not train but does that include play in the game on Saturday?

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Cyril wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Some odd calls here, I don't know what he's thinking? No need to go into it as it has already been said. But the long list of locks does really stand out. I guess he's looking to wrap AWJ and Charteris in cotton wool - makes sense as there aren't many better second row's than that.

wales606 wrote:Apparently Gatland is considering playing players from outside the 31 against Italy. Seems strange

This... Very, very strange if true. It makes the warm-up game irrelevant.

To a degree I think the Italy match is of subjective relevance to Wales. It's more an exhibition send off for the WRU.

Wouldn't really peg much of a big deal on it.

Maybe just the lads who still need a run around will play. The rest will be non squad members.

Exhibition send off? It's our last warm-up before we enter a major competition. Our first team needs more game time so they can continue to improve. Putting in players outside of the 31 prevents that from happening, and it surely can't be good for morale.

From midnight on 31st August players from outside the squad are not allowed to train with the squad.

Maybe not train but does that include play in the game on Saturday?

I assume it means the same thing. Unless they lock them in a separate changing room with bags on their heads and don't speak to each other during the game

Squashed that rumour then.

Anyway why would you waste a preparation game, short-change your fans and insult the opposition? Rhetorical question for maesteg's benefit

The inclusion of Day suggests that AWJs knock is a little bit more of a concern than we think IMO

RubyGuby wrote:The inclusion of Day suggests that AWJs knock is a little bit more of a concern than we think IMO

Radio 5 live state that AWJ out for 4-5 weeks, and that at the last minute Gats replaced a hooker (he stated there would be 3 on Saturday) with an extra lock.

I am amazed that the normally fairly conservative Gatland has taken quite so many risks.

LT,

Where do you think the risks have been taken?