Leicester Tigers Thread 2015/16 A New Beginning Part 1

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :


2015/16 Senior Squad ATM:
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Mauger (HC), Hansen (Defence + Skills Coach), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Murphy (Ass. Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) Youngs, Ghiraldini, Bateman, Thacker
4/5) De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
6/7/8) Crane, Croft, Fonua, McCaffrey, O'Connor, Pearce, Williams
9) Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Betham, Camacho, Goneva, Thompstone,
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2015/16 Development Squad: Oliver Byrant, Jake Farnworth, George Tresidder,  Will Owen

2015/16
Greg Bateman (Exeter)
Mike Williams (Warriors)
Mike Fitzgerald (Chiefs)
Opeti Fonua (Welsh)
Brendon O'Connor (Blues)
Peter Betham (NSW Waratahs)
Lachlan McCaffrey (London Welsh)
Jono Kitto (Bay of Plenty + Cheifs Development Squad)

Transfers Out 2014/15:
Paul Burke (N/A)
Phil Blake (N/A)
Neil McCarthy (Glous)
Tom Price (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Exeter)
Neil Briggs (Sale)
Julien Salvi (Exeter)
Pohe (USC)
Brad Thorn (Retirement)
Peterson (Glasgow)
Hamilton (Coventry)
Bristow (Wasps)
R.Williams (?)
Whetton
Hepetema (BoP)
Allen (Retirement)

[yappysnap]

Why do you guys call Youngs OTY?

And when's manu back?

[LondonTiger]

Why do you guys call Youngs OTY?

And when's manu back?

I thought it was just our Surrey cricket fan who did. Old Tom Youngs (vs Young Ben Youngs).

Manu in training, may see him next month, who knows.

[formerly known as Sam]

Commentators always used to call Benny "Young Ben Youngs" so on the offy they gave Tom the tongue in cheek nickname "Old Tom Youngs".

Manu is back next month.

[king_carlos]

Why do you guys call Youngs OTY?

And when's manu back?

I thought it was just our Surrey cricket fan who did. Old Tom Youngs (vs Young Ben Youngs).

Manu in training, may see him next month, who knows.

I'm pretty sure that I've read it from our Yorkshire cricket fan at one point or another as well LT

As a nickname I quite like the thought behind it though! I've got to say it's slightly more inventive than the 'Stains' and 'Pests' monikers for our affable neighbours that are also commonly used on the offy.

[formerly known as Sam]

https://youtu.be/dby1ksFG3q4

Saints highlights from the A league. Good charge down and finish for Bryant and then a decent backs move. We concede two tries poorly with a sloppy missed tackle and grubber. Penalty try looks harsh but the cross field from Harry Mallinder is perfect.

[king_carlos]

Thanks Sam. I must say that from those brief highlights it looks like our forwards were a fair bit smaller man for man than Saints.

Only a few line-outs were shown but Van Vurren and Farnworth both showed the annoying tendency to stand just over the line instead of behind it when throwing in. If properly reffed it will eventually be called and lose your side possession. I really don't understand the gain from it, moving forward a few inches?

[formerly known as Sam]

I'd guess lack of attention to detail. You can see how windy it is by the touch judges flags.

[king_carlos]

I can understand refs not picking up on it at that level, given how scrappy and mistaken ridden games like that often are they have plenty other things to concentrate on.

I just don't understand why hookers do it. What does standing a few inches further forward actually gain them in the throw? I can't imagine it does anything really.

I've started to increasingly notice hookers trying to avoid standing in the middle of the 'gap' in the line-out now. They try to stand to their lines side of the mark so that they can throw 'straight' whilst still giving their jumpers an unfair advantage. It's a really annoying thing to go unpunished, especially with one linesman and the ref both stood in a prime position to see it!

[formerly known as Sam]

Agreed on the standing in front of your own line. The Munster hooker really took the proverbial on Sunday.

[LondonTiger]

I've started to increasingly notice hookers trying to avoid standing in the middle of the 'gap' in the line-out now. They try to stand to their lines side of the mark so that they can throw 'straight' whilst still giving their jumpers an unfair advantage. It's a really annoying thing to go unpunished, especially with one linesman and the ref both stood in a prime position to see it!

And when the AR does try and move them they get stroppy.

Funniest I saw was a hooker stood on his line but threw to the middle, and was pinged for not straight.

[LondonTiger]

FFFFFS

Tigers, who top Pool 4 after four wins from their opening four games, host Benetton Treviso at Welford Road in Round 5. This is a 7.45pm kick-off on Saturday, January 16.

[doctor_grey]

FFFFFS

Tigers, who top Pool 4 after four wins from their opening four games, host Benetton Treviso at Welford Road in Round 5. This is a 7.45pm kick-off on Saturday, January 16.

Not amused, mate?

[LondonTiger]

not at all.

Saturday will be our 6th home match of the season - not one has had the same kick-off slot.

Was hoping things would improve after the New Year, but the Saturday night match is a real pain.

[doctor_grey]

Saturday night must be for tv audiences you think?

[LondonTiger]

Saturday night must be for tv audiences you think?  

Yeah - they want to satisfy demands from multiple TV companies

[maverickmak]

Tigers always get fixtures pushed around because they know we will still pull 20k anyway, regardless of the Poopie kick-offs we're given.

[nathan]

Apparently when Manu was asked how long, he replied with 4 weeks until he's back

[yappysnap]

Quins have had 4 Saturday games this year! At least you've not had Thursday/Friday and Sunday games almost every week.

[formerly known as Sam]

That's not good news Nathan. Smith limped off yesterday and at this rate we'll need to throw JDV in at the deep end.

[LondonTiger]

Quins have had 4 Saturday games this year! At least you've not had Thursday/Friday and Sunday games almost every week.

Qualify for the Champions cup then.

That was our first home match on a saturday this season.

[LondonTiger]

some of the stats from the weekend coming through, and seem to back up my gut feel that we dominated the game.

640m run with the ball and 15 line breaks to Falcons 268m and 2 linebreaks.

Problem is though that we need to improve our decision making and execution. Across the last two weeks we have been perhaps one good decision or decent pass away from about a dozen unscored tries. Teams like Sarries will not give us so many opportunities.

However, quite excited what we may see come spring time and firmer ground conditions.

[formerly known as Sam]

I was at the game and we dominated completely after the opening spell whilst Balmain was off the pitch. It was a terrible yellow card. The player looked to be at the horizontal as opposed to beyond it and was brought down safely on his side. Considering Balmain had several stone on the Falcons player momentum was managed well.

Agree completely on the accuracy. We deconstructed the Falcons defence a few times but too often went for the glory pass as opposed to recycling the ball and gong again. We certainly looked less composed once Smith left the field and it's a concern he limped off.

[LondonTiger]

I was at the game and we dominated completely after the opening spell whilst Balmain was off the pitch. It was a terrible yellow card. The player looked to be at the horizontal as opposed to beyond it and was brought down safely on his side. Considering Balmain had several stone on the Falcons player momentum was managed well.

I agree with all of that, but I know that the view from the stands is sometimes distorted. Having now looked at the Balmain incident on replays, i still think it was a shocking call, there was no lifting, just a big man tackling a tiny one. However i can see that despite no lifting, the Falcon does come down marginally top first. Not sure on the current directives, but Wigglesworth is a terribly pedantic ref.

[formerly known as Sam]

If he'd landed on the top of his shoulder, neck or head I'd have agreed fully with the card. He lands on the upper part of his arm though. Ridiculous decision. Agree with your assessment of Mr Wigglesworth.

[nathan]

Quick update shamefully stolen from the Mercury...

-Kitchener and Fitzgerald will both be back
-Manu hopefully will be back to full training in a couple of weeks
-De Villiers is out due to illness and taking into consideration the plastic pitch at sarries wouldn't suit his knees
-Matt Smith missing due to his ankle injury he picked up last week

[king_carlos]

Cheers for those updates LT, I hadn't heard them.

It will be interesting to see if Cockers goes as close to full strength as he can for Sarries or looks to rotate a few guys. McCaffery will need a break soon but may not get one until Treviso visit. Veainu has featured in pretty much every game since arriving so want to be careful with him too.

I'd be tempted to give Balmain a go alongside Marcos and Youngs in the front row. He's impressed consistently. That said I'd also like to see Cole have a go at Mako in the scrum. Who'd be a coach eh...

1.Ayerza 2.Youngs 3.Cole/Balmain 4.Fitz 5.Kitch 6.Slater 7.O'Connor 8.McCaffery
9.Youngs 10.Burns 11.Goneva 12.Bai 13.Betham 14.Thompstone 15.Tait

16.Thacker 17.Mulipola 18.Balmain/Cole 19.Barrow 20.Croft 21.Harrison 22.Bell 23.Veainu

Dom Barrow was excellent against Falcons I thought so perhaps we could see him start with Fitzgerald or Kitch eased back in from the bench? I'd go with the more experience where possible though. We need to start accumulating bonus points.

[formerly known as Sam]

Agree on the bonus points. I think Balmain has shown up very well in the last couple of games. He seems to be flourishing under the Mauger approach now he's adapted. Some of his runs against Munster were pretty destructive. I'd like to see him used as impact off the bench and us use Cole to apply pressure to the Sarries scrum.

I heard Manu was pretty much fit but that Tiger's didn't consider him for this game because of the plastic pitch and the effect it would have on his hamstring. Shame the same applies to JDV as he'd be a fairly ideal replacement for the injured Smith. Don't think we can afford to rest TV in this one. Sarries will kick a lot and we'll need Tait and TV taking those balls and returning them with interest. Might be worth moving Betham to the wing and Goneva to centre to facilitate that as well, put Thompstone on the bench as impact.

[king_carlos]

TV is a guy who we will rarely be able to rest with how he's playing. He hobbled off after the second Munster game though and has had a lot of minutes since arriving. He's a guy we want to take very good care of.

The argument for Betham moving back to wing will continue as long as our centres are injured I expect. He's acquitted himself well at 13 but is clearly a wing. I'd keep Niki our wide though, he has looked so much better again this season now he isn't jumping between positions. Betham is also much better defensively at 13 than Niki who has a real tendency to rush up.

On kick return I feel Thompstone has been one of our best players for the second half of last season and this one. If we were building a back three to counteract the Sarries kick chase then I'd look to bench Niki for impact and have TV, Thompstone and Tait at the back.

[king_carlos]

On a more pedantic note I'd rather have Fitz shifted to lock than Slater if we are playing three 'locks' in the staring pack. Ed is such a rock in the scrum and I feel it's a waste not having that in the boiler room.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'm a big fan of Thompstone but Betham played 15 in Australia and that was supposed to be his second position. Hence why I was going for him on the wing and three players capable of playing full back in the back three.

[nathan]

Good read...

http://m.leicestermercury.co.uk/Big-Interview-Leicester-Tigers-duo-Richard/story-28450776-detail/story.html

[formerly known as Sam]

The bit about Mauger banning Cockers expletives made me chuckle.

[king_carlos]

Croft went of with a head knock it has been confirmed.

Apparently Slater has damaged medial ligaments in his knee so will be out for a "little while" according to Cockers.

[nathan]

Not good news at all, had hoped Slater would be around the England setup

[king_carlos]

Same nathan. He could technically be selected in the EPS then immediately replaced with someone due to injury...

Given he isn't an established player for England I can't see it though.

Such a shame, at 27 without a cap and injuries mounting I fear that this 6 Nations or the summer tour could be approaching his last opportunities to start a significant international career.

[yappysnap]

Didn't Slater hurt his knee previously?

Quins often rotate players with dodgy knees for the Sarries away pitch, it aggravates knees apparently. Perhaps Tigers should have done the same

[nathan]

Didn't Slater hurt his knee previously?

Quins often rotate players with dodgy knees for the Sarries away pitch, it aggravates knees apparently. Perhaps Tigers should have done the same

Don't think he has a history of knee problems unlike jdv who wasn't risked because of that reason.

[formerly known as Sam]

Tigers left out a few players due to the Sarries pitch. As Slater is the best enforcer we have and is our captain. Also our weakened team took a kicking we couldn't have left any more great players behind.

Concerning that injuries are starting to mount and that our scrum still hasn't become the force it was last season. We need a performance against Saints after today. Hopefully we can restructure the team and we'll have Croft and Slater back soon.

Re Slater and England, in theory he's exactly the lock we need but that depends on how Eddie chooses to play.

[king_carlos]

If Croft is missing for long due his head knock then we are down to our 4th strength blindside by looks of things with Williams, Slater and Croft crocked.

Given Pearce showed up well I wouldn't mind a look at 6.McCaffery 7.O'Connor 8.Pearce against Saints. Not ideal by any means but in the circumstances it could work as well as can be hoped.

[formerly known as Sam]

The great thing about Lachlan is that he covers the whole back row. For Saints a pack of;

Ayerza, Youngs, Cole
Kitch, Fitz
McCafferty, O'Connor, Pearce

Will do nicely. If he can get some sort of a midfield in place we could do well.

[LondonTiger]

Who was packing down behing cole when he got binned? Whoever it was offered bugger all support or drive.

[king_carlos]

On merit from todays performances I'd start Balmain and bench Cole for a week.

When Fitz and Kitch pack down together it is with Kitchener behind the tight head LT. When Slater is in the second row I believe he takes this role. Traditionally your stronger scrummager backs up your tight head. Between Barrow and Kitch I'm not sure who was taking on this role however.

[formerly known as Sam]

Given the size of Barrow you'd expect it to be him. Having said that Kitch is a unit himself.

Balmain and Mulipola on the bench gives us a lot of carrying impact to come on after 50-55 minutes. Saints have lacked confidence this season and those two units entering the fray and carrying hard will test resolve. Cole isn't an impact player and he needs a bit of game time to get going.

Forwards bench of Thacker, Mulipola, Balmain, Barrow, Fonua can offer a lot of impact from the bench.

[king_carlos]

I think they are both similarly massive blokes so could have been either. To be honest whilst Cole was getting penalised on the TH side I think it was Marcos going off that made the big difference. Ayerza was holding Du Plessis of well and preventing him putting pressure on Thacker. When Brits was on this allowed Harry to get on with proceedings and hooking the ball fairly well whilst Balmain dealt with Mako.

When George came Thacker immediately started to struggle a little bit more with Pearce under more pressure at the back. Then when Ayerza went off Du Plessis immediately got the upper hand on Logo and starting putting big pressure on Thacker as well. This combined with Cole looking like he was still warming up for the captains run on the other side of the scrum meant that everything went to pot in the space of 30 seconds.

Barrow may well be looking at a citing/suspension. Early in the second half he was being held in the deck after a ruck by Itoje and lashed out catching Itoje on the back of the head. It could be viewed as just an unfortunate connection, Itoje was being an idiot holding him off the ball etc. On the otherhand the replays made it look like a dumb punch connecting with an opposition players head. If it's viewed as such he may well get a short ban.

I just think that given Balmain is playing very well he has earnt the chance to keep starting. Cole definitely offers less impact from the bench but I'd argue he also offers less starting as well just now. There's an argument either way. Waller will provide a good challenge for either in his current form though.

[broadlandboy]

BT keeping it's word about showing some games for free
http://sport.bt.com/rugby-union-hub/rugby-union/aviva-premiership/bt-sport-to-show-leicester-tigers-v-northampton-saints-free-to-air-S11364031830209

[king_carlos]

Cheers for highlighting that broadland. By and large I think the BT coverage is actually very good. Due to what seems a commitment to bring in new pundits, commentators etc as they go there have been some duds. Overall I think most of the guys who work on their coverage are enjoyable to listen to though. Ugo Monye especially has been a pleasant addition this season.

In other news, our A-team suffered another comprehensive loss away to Falcons yesterday evening. With Deano selecting lots of experience (Clever, Botha, Calum Green, Hawkins, Goode and Venditti especially) I wouldn't have expected our younger side to win away at Kingston.

The worrying aspect from what brief reports I can find is that our scrum once again struggled. Whilst Falcons were experienced overall their props, Alex Rogers and Ben Harris, were fringe players from their squad similar to Brugnara and Pasquali. Likewise at hooker we had new signing Van Vurren (Top 14 and Super Rugby experience) up against Rob Hawkins who hasn't featured for Falcons this season if I'm correct? Even with Falcons having more ballast in the second row I'd have expected our scrum to fair better than the comprehensive upper hand it sounds like Falcons gained.

Perhaps I'm overthinking things but the struggles of our props coming through at scrum time are concerning me. Balmain was shifted to cover LH instead of Brugnara due to scrummaging concerns, Pas still doesn't seem to be viewed as a real options for rotation in the AP, Sio is a massive bloke and threat around the park but still struggling at job 1. We are always recruiting well in the front row but with Logo probably moving on at the end of the season and Marcos needing his workload managed we need guys coming through as viable squad members. It feels they are a bit off where we'd have hoped.

[formerly known as Sam]

Perhaps. The Falcons 5-8 were considerably bigger and more experienced than what we had out. Hawkins is also considerably more experienced than our trialist and knows the props either side as well. Our scrum in general has lacked menace this season. I think Cockers will be having plenty of training in that department this week.

Falcons named a far far stronger team than us and the game seemed close until Tuilagi the even younger got sin binned for a shoulder charge.

[king_carlos]

As said I wouldn't have expected to win against their experienced side. It is more the repeated reports that our scrum is heading backwards at a rate and our props are being dominated. On the LH side especially our guys coming through worry me. Brugnara and Sio have been around a while now, are well developed physically but are still struggling big time in the scrum.

Pasquali I rate highly and really want to see kick on. With him not getting AP game time he needs these A-league games to get some form scrummaging, especially with Cole away for the 6 Nations. I fear that our completely minced A-team scrums wont be the best place for him to develop that.

[king_carlos]

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Tigers-injury-blows-Slater-6-8-weeks-Morris/story-28468174-detail/story.html

Cockers confirms Slater will be out for 6-8 weeks.

In more sad news Niall Morris will miss the rest of the season. Having recovered from his horrible ankle break he has now had to have surgery on a foot problem and has had complications following surgery which rule him out for 3-4 months.

JDV and Manu wont feature at the weekend - shock horror. Manu is 'back in full training' though.

Betham and O'Connor will come back into the squad. Matt Smith and Fitz are also 'good to go'.

He also says that Croft will be available but, "Croft broke his tooth, got concussed and sliced his ear open all in one tackle". If he was concussed at the weekend then I very much question if he is good to play. It isn't exactly rare for Cockers to be loose with his fit for selection statements!

1.Ayerza 2.Youngs 3.Cole 4.Fitz 5.Kitch 6.McCaffery 7.O'Connor 8.Pearce
9.Youngs 10.Burns 11.Goneva 12.Smith 13.Tait 14.Betham 15.Veainu

16.Thacker 17.Mulipola 18.Balmain 19.Barrow 20.Fonau/Croft 21.Harrison 22.Williams 23.Thompstone

I'd like to see something like that for Saints.

[formerly known as Sam]

Maybe Williams over Burns. Williams offers more control and in bad conditions he can be relied upon to kick long and get the points off the tee. Having said that it's a tough call as Mauger is getting the best out of Burns.

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