Leicester Tigers Thread 2015/16 A New Beginning Part 1

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :


2015/16 Senior Squad ATM:
Coaches: Cockerill (DOR), Mauger (HC), Hansen (Defence + Skills Coach), Blaze (Ass. Forwards), Murphy (Ass. Backs)
1/3) Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara, Cole, Mulipola, Pasquali, Rizzo
2) Youngs, Ghiraldini, Bateman, Thacker
4/5) De Chaves, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
6/7/8) Crane, Croft, Fonua, McCaffrey, O'Connor, Pearce, Williams
9) Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
10) Burns, Williams
12/13) Bai, Loamanu, Roberts, Smith, Tuilagi
11/14) Benjamin, Betham, Camacho, Goneva, Thompstone,
15) Bell, Morris, Tait

2015/16 Development Squad: Oliver Byrant, Jake Farnworth, George Tresidder,  Will Owen

2015/16
Greg Bateman (Exeter)
Mike Williams (Warriors)
Mike Fitzgerald (Chiefs)
Opeti Fonua (Welsh)
Brendon O'Connor (Blues)
Peter Betham (NSW Waratahs)
Lachlan McCaffrey (London Welsh)
Jono Kitto (Bay of Plenty + Cheifs Development Squad)

Transfers Out 2014/15:
Paul Burke (N/A)
Phil Blake (N/A)
Neil McCarthy (Glous)
Tom Price (Scarlets)
Geoff Parling (Exeter)
Neil Briggs (Sale)
Julien Salvi (Exeter)
Pohe (USC)
Brad Thorn (Retirement)
Peterson (Glasgow)
Hamilton (Coventry)
Bristow (Wasps)
R.Williams (?)
Whetton
Hepetema (BoP)
Allen (Retirement)

[Welly]

I reckon Cardiff would love him.

[LondonTiger]

Team up:

Marcos, OTY, Baltrain, Fitz, DomB, Croft, Locky, Ed, Kitto, Burns, TV, JDV, Manu, Tompstone, Tait

Thacker, Brugnara, Logo, williams, Pearce, Harrison, Bell, Smith

[formerly known as Sam]

I reckon Cardiff would love him.

That's what Anscombe was brought over for. Pratchell is leaving Cardiff because he's being shunted round the back line to accommodate Anscombe.

Personally I think Owen is the second best Welsh fly half going and if he can stay fit for longe enough to gain high level experience he was the potential to overtake Biggar. The first 25 mins of that game vs Saints was incredible from him, been years since I've seen a Tigers fly half effortlessly control a game and unleash our backs seemingly at will to such devastating effect. That wasn't a bad Saints team either which they quickly showed when Williams went off and wasn't pulling the strings.

[BamBam]

Team up:

Marcos, OTY, Baltrain, Fitz, DomB, Croft, Locky, Ed, Kitto, Burns, TV, JDV, Manu, Tompstone, Tait

Thacker, Brugnara, Logo, williams, Pearce, Harrison, Bell, Smith

Is that Ed Slater at 8?!

[LondonTiger]

Yup.

[LondonTiger]

London Irish:
15 Sean Maitland, 14 Topsy Ojo, 13 Ciaran Hearn, 12 Fergus Mulchrone, 11 Andrew Fenby, 10 Theo Brophy Clews, 9 Scott Steele, 1 Tom Smallbone, 2 David Paice, 3 Halani Aulika, 4 Matt Symons, 5 Elliott Stooke, 6 Luke Narraway (c), 7 Blair Cowan, 8 Ofisa Treviranus

Replacements: 16 Tom Cruse, 17 Tom Court, 18 Leo Halavatau, 19 Will Lloyd, 20 Joe Trayfoot, 21 Darren Allinson, 22 Shane Geraghty, 23 Johnny Williams

[formerly known as Sam]

I sense the scrum might well be struggling on Sunday. Balmain looked shattered vs Quins and Logo is carefully nursing his knee and isn't 100%.

I seem to remember a few people calling for Ed at 8 the other year. Be interesting to see how he goes. No Kitch, with him being an unused sub last weekend I can only assume he's another one nursing an injury.

[king_carlos]

From what I've heard Pearce if off yep. I'm still hoping it isn't the case though as he's a rapidly improving player and a home grown one.

With Mike Williams back and the Thacker at 7 train gaining speed I expect that the amount of game time he gets in the next few weeks will be very telling. If he's off then Cockers may not bother developing him more. He is a weapon but as seen against Quins still needs to look after the ball much better in contact, to do this he needs game time against top sides who can target him. Whether the coaches give him that game time will probably answer what's happening.

Ozzy - Doesn't the current LI squad have about 8/9 locks in it?

No mate, we have

Symons
Skivington
Sheriff
Rouse

Skivs, Sheriff and Rouse are long term injuries, so we have brought in Will Lloyd, Elliott Stooke, Ian Nagle and Jerry Sexton on short term deals to the end of the season.  Rouse I suspect may end up having to retire, and I also have concerns about Skivs.  Stooke and Nagle are joining Bath and Leinster respectively next season, Lloyd is a development player at best at the moment but may get a deal for next year, and Sexton hasn’t pulled on a  jersey for us yet.  I heard a rumour that we are talking to one of your locks for next year, so wondered who might be out of contract.

I'd almost forgotten Skivs was still with you he seems to have struggled so much recently. It's a shame as he's a fantastic Jeff lock at his best. Such a physical and consistent performer.

I expect that it will be Seb De Chaves you're looking at. As you say he'd be an excellent signing for you as well.

[king_carlos]

I sense the scrum might well be struggling on Sunday. Balmain looked shattered vs Quins and Logo is carefully nursing his knee and isn't 100%.

I seem to remember a few people calling for Ed at 8 the other year. Be interesting to see how he goes. No Kitch, with him being an unused sub last weekend I can only assume he's another one nursing an injury.

With Franks out we should be OK come scrum time.

OTY returning is a huge boost as he should get the better of Paice there. Marcos can take care of Aulika and Balmain should really be getting the upper hand on Tom Smallbone. Especially given that Fitz and Barrow are two big second rows who are strong in the scrum plus the not inconsiderable presence of Ed behind them.

Fatigue of our props is a real concern currently though for sure. As you say Logo is nursing his knee as ever, Baltrain seems a bit worn down and Marcos will realistically need a rest before the business end of the season. Aguero is a big loss at current in terms of rotation.

[SirBurger]

Don't be so sure on Smallbone. He has been very good so far for us this season.

And yes, I would be dead chuffed with De Chaves. Him and Symons would be a quality partnership.

[Welly]

Seb is following London Irish only recently started following as well last month or so I would guess.

Suggest he might well be off.

Reckon either academy lock comes up or we are getting maybe a SH project player maybe if case.

[formerly known as Sam]

I think we'll bring back Wells and then promote the young academy guy with the name I won't try and spell. We've got Slater, Kitch, Fitzgerald, Barrow and Williams is fine there. Five first choice options before we look to Wells who has bags of Championship experience at 22/23. We need investment in the front row so we need to make little salary savings where we can to boost the space in the cap for the fat boys.

Given Mulipola's ongoing knee care we should be able to sort a deal to keep him. Add in Cilliers and that is good but pricey recruitment. McGuigan is a decent back up to Youngs but given how injury prone Bateman has been we need another hooker, particularly if Thacker is going to make a permanent move to the back row. Crane, Croft and Pearce being out of contract this summer doesn't make things any cheaper in terms of renewal as Croft signed for a song last summer amidst injury issues, he's been reliably excellent this season.

Seb will go well at LI. He's not going to be marauding around the park he'll be the one offering solidarity in the tight and refusing to take a backwards step. He's starting to get the experience which stops him being a penalty liability, particularly in maul defence, so it's the right time to be signing him.

[Welly]

Genge is sounding more and more like if we like him he will be with us next season. (From what i gather)

[LondonTiger]

I assume you mean Joe Maksymiw, Sam? I can spell the name, but no chance with the pronunciation.

[Guest]

Next season is Crane's testimonial so he should be contracted for next year. The way I've heard though is that the club are happy to let him go if he gets an offer he wants to take. I believe his last renewal had a pretty substantial pay-cut and the promise of a testimonial year was what swayed it in the end, so it'd have to be a fairly decent offer for him to move now. Though admittedly I have absolutely no idea how much players typically receive from a benefit year.  

Important to keep Croft as he and Williams offer a great contrast to pick from based on conditions, opponents or even just who becomes the clear first choice 8.

[formerly known as Sam]

That's the one LT. I've liked what little I've seen of him so far. Think he could be capable of a bit part role next season. Get him plenty of LV game time.

That's the impression I got with Genge, Welly. Sounds like he's not in with the best crowd back in Bristol and a fresh start somewhere else is needed for him. An aggressive loosehead who likes to scrum and carry should be a perfect understudy for Ayerza. If we could have Ayerza, Logo, Genge as our looseheads and Cole, Cilliers, Balmain as our tight heads that would be good recruitment.

[LondonTiger]

Dan Cole has really been finding his form whilst with England. Hope he brings that form back to us when 6Ns ends.

[Welly]

Tiger re-sign Catchpole, Kitto and Roberts


Announce signing of McGuigan

[LondonTiger]

Well, here's hoping he settles in a way similar to Parling and Barrow rather than Young and Brookes.

[Welly]

Richards is miffed about this.

Similar reaction to Barrow so fingers crossed.

[Welly]

Brady now signed for Tigers.

[formerly known as Sam]

They're all young guys with potential to improve so that's a good move. Our back line has been aging slowly but surely over the last few years so those signings are positive. Not sure Brady will see any more game time that Catchpole unless the long awaited winger clear out takes place.

[Welly]

Goneva going

Could see Loamanu, Camacho and Benjamin being all question marks.

[formerly known as Sam]

Loamano will be gone, probably to Japan. He's not played at all so there's no point him staying. The new Japanese Super 15 team and/or the J League would be better for him, especially with his international suspension lifted.

Camacho might somehow squeeze out another contract but I imagine Benjamin will leave. He'll be match fit by the end of the season and can go somewhere and have an immediate fresh start.

[Welly]

Cilliers signed.

Very Happy with that.

[formerly known as Sam]

Agreed Welly. I'm also very happy that Cockers has insinuated that Logo will be here next season in his comments on the website.

[king_carlos]

It's a squad which is shaping up very nicely IMO.

I'll hold my breath slightly until Logo or a comparable replacement are signed on. However once that is the case we will have a very strong stable of props with talented youngsters coming through.

1. Get Logo or a replacement signed.

2. Sort the situation at 8. Not knowing what Fonau offers on top of Pearce probably leaving and Crane being ineffective makes this a difficult situation. I'd like to see Milne brought into the senior squad as I think he can fit our current style well.

3. Decide on which wingers are going. Out of Camacho and Benjamin I would definitely keep Benjamin. He has injury issues but is also one of our best attacking runners once fit.

4. Decide on who will replace Seb in the squad if he leaves. With Wells having been around for so long and Maksymiw coming through this could be from within. If Mike Williams covers lock more then another 'squad' blindside may be required though - I would have suggested Beckett for this prior to shifting to TH!

5. Either send whatever combination of Pasquali, Brugnara and Sio out to championship clubs for a season to get them game time or let them go. Personally I want to keep Tiz involved but get him Championship game time, Brugnara I'm more torn on. If both Brugnara and Sio move on then perhaps we could tempt Aguero for another season in a player/coach role for depth?

It sounds like Genge will be around next season which helps the reserve prop situation a lot.

One final point would be that if JDV continues to play as he did against an albeit poor LI side on Sunday then I'd be tempted to keep him for another season. He'd add depth to both centre spots and offers so much experience to pass onto Manu, Bryant, Catchpole and Roberts.

[Guest]

Do we have anything concrete on Logo's current contract situation? Like most people I also thought his current deal ran out at the end of the season but someone reasonably clued up on the unoffy is certain that it lasts into next season.

If it did end this year I can't help but think we'd have been seeing all kinds of rumours about him considering big moves to other clubs, especially considering Freddie is his agent. Plus as Sam says Cockerill's words suggest he'll be around next season.

[king_carlos]

I thought he was out of contract but rumours now are that he should be here next year but there are currently 'complications with his contract'.

It's a bit puzzling as everyone seemed fairly certain he was leaving and if he had re-signed then it would have been a BIG announcement on the first 'magic Monday' when JPP etc were announced.

Logo has family connections to the area and appears very happy and settled so I wouldn't presume the complications to be personal.

The obvious one might be money given that the contracts French clubs offer to good props are vast, especially eye catching ones such as Logo who carry so well.

Perhaps it's a simple case that his recent struggles once again with his knee have turned his head slightly to the fact that he needs to cash in while he can.

[formerly known as Sam]

Maybe Tigers have an option to add an extra year on to Mulipola's contract. There might be a contractual pay rise in there so Tigers are stalling whilst waiting to see the full extent of his knee injury. Just guessing.

Logo has been great. We should be looking for him to stay.

[LondonTiger]

some interesting comments from Dean Ryan and JDV on Radio 5 tonight when talking about Manu. I admit that we now have to be aware that JDV is no longer impartial on the subjest - but he was extremely complimentary. Ryan though has nothing to gain when he described Manu as being the most skilful off-loader in the English game.

[broadlandboy]

Pearce to Sharks http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/sale-sharks-sign-leicester-tigers-10969005

[formerly known as Sam]

Disappointing but unsurprising. Crane's position is now key as if he is off as well then we will really need to recruit and recruit strongly.

[LondonTiger]

Just from what I observed on Sunday, i woudl not be surprised to see Crane move to LI.

[SirBurger]

Please no...

[Ozzy3213]

Why's that LT?

[Welly]

Why would Crane want to move to a dump of a club

Honestly.

[formerly known as Sam]

Please no...

He'd make more tackles and offer you rock solid stability at the base of your scrum.

[SirBurger]

He just isn't what we need. Good player, but we need ball carriers and his dynamism went years ago.

[Welly]

He just isn't what we need. Good player, but we need ball carriers and his dynamism went years ago.

Watching Sunday you need someone who can make more than 3 tackles TBH.

[SirBurger]

True - we really missed Symons in that respect.

[LondonTiger]

Why's that LT?

During the warm-ups he spent most of the time in the Clubhouse half of the pitch, where the away team warm up, chatting first with Shane Geraghty and Scott steele (he will know both of them pretty well) but then a long time with a coach, Glenn Delaney I think. At no point did Crane appear to join in with the Leicester warm-up. now he was not in the 23, but usually there are guys manning the tackle pads, providing opposition at set piece practice etc.

[Jimpy]

Why's that LT?

During the warm-ups he spent most of the time in the Clubhouse half of the pitch, where the away team warm up, chatting first with Shane Geraghty and Scott steele (he will know both of them pretty well) but then a long time with a coach, Glenn Delaney I think. At no point did Crane appear to join in with the Leicester warm-up. now he was not in the 23, but usually there are guys manning the tackle pads, providing opposition at set piece practice etc.

Crane could go to Exeter, with all the other players that were considered surplus to requirement at Tigers, like Waldrom, Salvi and Parling. I mean, its not like they're doing any good there is it.... ? Oh, hang on.

[LondonTiger]

Owen Williams declared fit to play this weekend.

[LondonTiger]

Youngs and Smith however unlikely to be fit apparently.

[king_carlos]

The return of OTYs back issues are becoming an increasing concern. For a front row any back injuries are very difficult to settle down and he really need him heading into the next 3 games.

I also wonder how the coaches are planning to manage our props, especially Marcos over the next 6 weeks.

Chiefs (H), Wasps (A), Sarries (H), Sale (A), Gloucs (H), Stade ERCC QF (H)

Marcos especially has had a lot of rugby without much respite. I think it's either a case of rotate him to the bench for Wasps away and focus on our home matches over the next 3. Or play him for the next 3 then rest him entirely for Sale and Gloucs. Cole will likely also need resting for one/both of those games though.

For Chiefs though I'd hope to see:

Marcos, Wee Harry, Baltrain, Barrow, Fitz, Croft, Lachie, Ed
Kitto, Burns, Tombstone, JDV, Manu, Betham, Tait

Reps: Leo/Bateman/Van Vurren, Brugnara, Logo, Kitch/Mike Williams, Mike Williams/Pearce, Harrison, Owen Williams, TV

[formerly known as Sam]

Cole will get a rest this weekend. It's the the plus alongside the minus of the six nations. We lose him from first team action but also gets rest time in that period as well.

Marcos will need a rest at some point as will Balmain. I think Exeter may find them less challenging than we'd like given how much rugby they've had to play. Marcos may get a rest once Genge is settled in. Hopefully Logo will be fit enough for a start soon.

Smith getting time off is good. Concussions should be treated carefully and he took a battering for most of this season. Time for him to freshen up.

[king_carlos]

I'd still like to see Cole given at least a week off after the 6 Nations Sam. Perhaps rested for Sale and bench for Gloucs but getting him 30+ minutes game time.

On Pearce, it's a shame to see him go as I think he will be an excellent Prem player even if he is still raw. However I think the fact that having a vital position such as no 8 undecided for next season isn't causing more worry is a real accolade to how well the squad is coming together at an early stage. Below is what we are currently looking at even if Crane also leaves:

1.Ayerze, ??, Genge
2.Youngs, McGuigan, Bateman
3.Cole, Balmain, Cilliers
4.Slater, Barrow
5.Kitch, Fitz
6.Williams, Croft
7.O'Connor, McCaffery, Thacker
8.Fonau

9.Youngs, Harrison, Kitto
10.Burns, Williams

11.TV, Thompstone
12.Toomua, Smith, Bryant
13.Manu, Catchpole, Roberts
14.JPP, Betham, Brady
15.Tait, Morris

If we can keep Logo and add Farnworth/Van Vurren, Wells/Maksymiw and Milne to the forwards then a strong signing at 8 looks like the final piece of the jig saw.

The backs are as good as sorted but for an extra winger (Benjamin/Camacho) and possibly retaining JDV.

The strength of the second row is still outstanding and with Croft once again playing well, Lachie a known quantity and BOC/M Williams settling well our first 4 flankers are fantastic options.

The current issue with prop depth is also looking far more positive with Cilliers a clever signing and Genge an excellent prospect. Albeit 3 props in each position isn't enough so a decision will need to be made on Tiz/Brugnara/Sio, promoting Hills/Hogan (too early) or finding others.

[formerly known as Sam]

I'd like to see McCaffery concentrate on 8 and Thacker become the understudy to BOC. If Crane goes then go hunting for another 8 if not then we're okay as we have three.

Agree completely on the rest of it. The prop situation is a tough one as we need more strength in depth but don't want to block the development pathway for young prospects.

[Welly]

Camacho off it seems.

Wonder if Seb goes, Slater moves to 8 and Irish go down if we might make a play for Symons.

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