England Squad Named

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SQUAD IN FULL

Here it is: Eddie Jones first squad as England head coach.

Forwards

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) *injury replacement for Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Kieran Brookes (Northampton Saints), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Backs

Chris Ashton (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby) *injury replacement for Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs) *injury replacement for Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Per Sky

ChequeredJersey wrote:Does this mean that Hartley is going to aim to play the whole match (rare for hookers and this WILL stop George getting a chance) or that Brown the vice captain will be making decisions in the last 20, bearing in mind that at Quins we seem to breed our captains to go for risky kicks at touch rather than goal at the end (see Robshaw, see Care in the Autumn)?

CJ, Its the Aussie way.

Cast your mind back a couple of months, Cheka went through the entire World Cup tournament using his hooker Stephen Moore as skipper and taking him off at around minute 60.
Eddie also an Australian hooker, will use his hooker Hartley the same way, the only variance being that Hartley is not of convict heritage, hes made of much finer stuff.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Joseph or Daly? Daly for me is showing the all round game and is probably the most in form player in the prem for me. Joseph is the guy who always looks a threat when playing from England, top scorer in the last 6Ns at least for England (?) but WC hampered by injury. Surely that's one of the biggest decisions?

From what I have seen of Joseph so far this season he is still struggling, of course not helped by Bath's general woes. Ultimately i just feel Daly brings that little bit more and could be in the team for a long time - but first he needs to get selected and then take his chance.

fa0019 wrote:Even if Farrell has off days, he's consistently more reliable than Ford and in addition to being more accurate his range is worthy of a test match kicker. Ford has the range of a club player only.

Scotland, Ireland, Wales all have superior kickers than Ford.  What it means is that  in tight games England can't rely on simply staying in the game, they have go out and win it which means you have to have bigger gaps, take more chances.

For all of Ford's obvious benefits I'd still go with Farrell for that reason at 10. At least you have a chance that way. In South Africa the 10 almost always goes to the guy who is the best kicker. Its why Andrew Merthens has 80 caps, why Carlos Spencer has 35. Playing them at 10-12 is an option but it didn't look natural for Farrell and I don't think it ever will.

For the 6 Nations Daly may well be in the centres who is very capable of knocking over kicks from within his own half. He could offer the option from range when Ford is on.

Looking further forward to the summer tour, Slade is a excellent goal kicker who could take the pressure of Ford there if he is playing better by then.

In the short term Farrell deserves to be starting 10 against Scotland given how well he's playing so it's less of a discussion.

Joeseph does still look like he's not firing on all cylinders (admittedly in a poorly performing Bath side). He's a very, very good player though. I can see him being a dangerous bench player (at least at the start of the 6Ns), covering centre and wing.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Does this mean that Hartley is going to aim to play the whole match (rare for hookers and this WILL stop George getting a chance) or that Brown the vice captain will be making decisions in the last 20, bearing in mind that at Quins we seem to breed our captains to go for risky kicks at touch rather than goal at the end (see Robshaw, see Care in the Autumn)?

CJ, Its the Aussie way.

Cast your mind back a couple of months, Cheka went through the entire World Cup tournament using his hooker Stephen Moore as skipper and taking him off at around minute 60.
Eddie also an Australian hooker, will use his hooker Hartley the same way, the only variance being that Hartley is not of convict heritage, hes made of much finer stuff.

It's a toss-up.

Eddie Jones has so far played his captains for the full 80 minutes on most occasions but, with the Wallabies, he often subbed his hookers on 60mins (he did so in the 2003 World Cup final). With Japan, hooker Shota Horie is one of Japan's players and usually plays the whole match.

Not sure I am entirely happy with this.


26 January 2016, 18:09
Eddie Jones releases 10 players from his squad
Released players free to play in Premiership this weekend
England Head Coach Eddie Jones has released 10 players back to their clubs for the weekend's Premiership action.

Jones has retained 23 players from his squad for the rest of the first training week of the RBS 6 Nations, while the full Elite Player Squad will reconvene at Pennyhill Park on Sunday evening.

England open their RBS 6 Nations campaign against Scotland at Murrayfield on 6 February (4.50pm).

The following 23 players have been retained by England for the rest of the first training week.

Forwards

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Paul Hill (Northampton Saints), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens).

Backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

The 10 players released back to their clubs:

Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs), Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins).

Hmm. I'm not happy about that. I'll trust Jones but looks a bit "new boss same as the old boss". A barely playing Devoto over Hill (if fit), no Daly, no Itoje, no Kvesic...

Means Goode at 23 or 15 as well, neither filling me with joy. Likely Farrell at 12 and Ford at 10. Likely Haskell starting.

Only good news is that it's likely Nowell is fit.

No Daly or Itoje!!

So if EJ is going conservative and wants experience to win the first match then maybe...

Mako
Hartley
Cole
Lawes
Launchbury
Robshaw
Billy
Haskell
Youngs/Care
Ford
Nowell - 11
Farrell - 12
JJ
Watson - 14
Brown

Bench

Marler
George
Hill
Kruis
Clifford
Youngs/Care
Devoto
Goode

Not sure I am excited by that. Sack him!

My amount of leeway for the tournament has plummeted. If this is our approach, I want a championship this year, please

Kruis had better start, he does have international caps and his form is >>>>>>> Lawes'

lol someone will moan with a certain selection!

Does that selection rhyme with Saro Litoje?

Fits with what we've been told though, Haskell, Robshaw and Clifford as match day flankers etc

Daly is the biggest error there for me. Other than including the slowest back 3 player in rugby history

Can't help feeling it's a missed opportunity not to play Daly, Itoje or Beaumont.
Haskell's inclusion makes no sense to me at all. So much for Mr Jones's assertion that we need an out and out 7.
Really not keen on playing a 10 at 12. Hope that isn't the way it's going.
Maybe after the disappointment of the WC I was expecting more changes with some of the younger players being used.
He has picked essentially a Lancaster side. Unless his coaching is radically different (and we have to hope it is) we can only expect the same results. i.e. Competitive, but will lose at least one or two games in the 6 Nations.

BamBam wrote:Does that selection rhyme with Saro Litoje?

Fits with what we've been told though, Haskell, Robshaw and Clifford as match day flankers etc

Daly is the biggest error there for me. Other than including the slowest back 3 player in rugby history

I really don't understand why Goode gets England game time. I think his last decent game for England was 2011?

At least the retention of Devoto might mean Farrell is less likely to be at 12. That is my biggest worry currently, closely followed by Haskell at 7.

1.Mako
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Kruis
6.Robshaw
7.Haskell
8.Billy

9.Youngs
10.Farrell

11.Nowell
12.Devoto
13.Joseph
14.Watson
15.Brown

16.George
17.Marler
18.Hill
19.Lawes
20.Clifford
21.Care
22.Ford
23.Goode

In short I really hope that Daly and Itoje play out their skin (again) this weekend to get onto the bench.

As for Kvesic... Hopefully he gets given an opportunity against Italy the week after and it doesn't harm us too much against Scotland. Hardie is a very good 7.

nobbled wrote:

BamBam wrote:Does that selection rhyme with Saro Litoje?

Fits with what we've been told though, Haskell, Robshaw and Clifford as match day flankers etc

Daly is the biggest error there for me. Other than including the slowest back 3 player in rugby history

I really don't understand why Goode gets England game time. I think his last decent game for England was 2011?

It's tricky because his club form is great, but great club form has translated to average England form for him in the past.

If he were starting it would actually be less insane, but as Brown is vice captain, that seems unlikely and as a bench option he just doesn't cover as much or add pace like say Daly would

king_carlos wrote:At least the retention of Devoto might mean Farrell is less likely to be at 12. That is my biggest worry currently, closely followed by Haskell at 7.

1.Mako
2.Hartley
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Kruis
6.Robshaw
7.Haskell
8.Billy

9.Youngs
10.Farrell

11.Nowell
12.Devoto
13.Joseph
14.Watson
15.Brown

16.George
17.Marler
18.Hill
19.Lawes
20.Clifford
21.Care
22.Ford
23.Goode

In short I really hope that Daly and Itoje play out their skin (again) this weekend to get onto the bench.

As for Kvesic... Hopefully he gets given an opportunity against Italy the week after and it doesn't harm us too much against Scotland. Hardie is a very good 7.

This backs up the idea of no new caps starting, and so I think you'll be disappointed and Farrell will be at 12

Can we have Lancaster back please, I think Jones is a mole and going to completely destroy England

so Lancaster's XV for the opener in the 2015 Six Nations:

Brown, Watson, Joseph, Burrell, May, Ford, B Youngs; Marler, Hartley, Cole, Attwood, Kruis, Haskell, Robshaw, Vunipola

vs Eddie's (probable) XV for the opener in the 2016 Six Nations:

Brown, Watson, Joseph, Farrell, Nowell, Ford, B Youngs; Marler, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Kruis, Robshaw, Haskell, Vunipola

Based on form, Lancaster's team looks better

Steady as she goes. Hill and Devoto will probably get some game time. No T. Youngs (thank God), no Wilson, no Thomas, no Barritt, no May, no Attwood (thank God), no Wood. Very happy with all those missing. The rest have a fair amount of experience between them and will have their own dynamics. We need a battle hardened team for Murrayfield and this looks like it. I'm fairly confident of a good performance from them. Lawes owes England a good performance, as does Cole.

What do we reckon the deal with Ashton is? Not mentioned but not dropped?

No 7&1/2 wrote:What do we reckon the deal with Ashton is? Not mentioned but not dropped?

Thought he'd been removed after the ban and Roko is the replacement

Chequered - I'm desperately hoping that he backs Devoto but it's looking painfully unlikely.

Ford and Farrell are clearly picked with game management and kicking in mind. Judging on Fords form and how Farrell has looked trying to influence a game from 12 when there for Sarries I don't think we will even get that though.

If Scotland can get a scrum advantage, which isn't an unimaginable thought with how strong their front row of Dickinson, Ford and Nel has looked for Edinburgh then we could be in trouble.

Our pack will have more carriers but if there isn't a platform to launch them from then Scotland have Hardie waiting to pounce.

I reckon we will win it due to a stronger bench and a few of Scotlands key backs being prone to brain farts or unforced errors at important moments - Russell and Hogg. Plus Farrell offering a strong goal kicking option from range to keep the board ticking.

I think it will be a stodgy affair though and frankly I'm sick of watching rugby games ruined by unambitious game plans.

englandglory4ever wrote:Steady as she goes. Hill and Devoto will probably get some game time. No T. Youngs (thank God), no Wilson, no Thomas, no Barritt, no May, no Attwood (thank God), no Wood. Very happy with all those missing. The rest have a fair amount of experience between them and will have their own dynamics. We need a battle hardened team for Murrayfield and this looks like it. I'm fairly confident of a good performance from them. Lawes owes England a good performance, as does Cole.

You must be the most optimistic person in the world, do you carry pom poms around with you?

BamBam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:What do we reckon the deal with Ashton is? Not mentioned but not dropped?

Thought he'd been removed after the ban and Roko is the replacement

Temporarily replaced by Roko, pending outcome of appeal.

Yeah thats all i've seen lt, is he now removed or still pending.

His appeal has only juist been lodged, not sure when it is heard.

nathan wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Steady as she goes. Hill and Devoto will probably get some game time. No T. Youngs (thank God), no Wilson, no Thomas, no Barritt, no May, no Attwood (thank God), no Wood. Very happy with all those missing. The rest have a fair amount of experience between them and will have their own dynamics. We need a battle hardened team for Murrayfield and this looks like it. I'm fairly confident of a good performance from them. Lawes owes England a good performance, as does Cole.

You must be the most optimistic person in the world, do you carry pom poms around with you?

Come on. No Barritt or T Youngs. What's not to like? Happy days are here again.

It is not just about Selection.Give or take a Burgess or a Barritt.
Robshaw to 6 is something Lancs could not bring himself to do.
Jones will bring a bit more nous to the tactics and bring in a real 7, and some dog at 2.
 But mostly... I hope...smarter game planning.

Robshaw is a better 7 than Haskell.

The numbers on their back are switching, who is the better 7 means little.

Hopefully Robshaw being at 6 will mean people judge him on what he does as a flanker, i.e. a hell of a lot, rather than demanding he try to produce some sort of mythical amalgamation of Pocock, McCaw, Hooper and Louw then deciding he's average when he doesn't do so.

He's good 6 or 7. Haskell is brilliant every 6 or 7 games games.

gregortree wrote:It is not just about Selection.Give or take a Burgess or a Barritt.
Robshaw to 6 is something Lancs could not bring himself to do.
Jones will bring a bit more nous to the tactics and bring in a real 7, and some dog at 2.
 But mostly... I hope...smarter game planning.

I think one of Lancaster's problems was his inability to deviate from his plan. To me, one of the key needs from Eddie is the ability to size up a game as it proceeds and adapt. Most of the successful coaches do frequently get it right up front, but all can make the halftime adjustments needed to win.

In all honesty it was never really about a new dawn and sweeping changes in the team.

Lancasters selections were always 90% correct with usually 1 or 2 bizarre calls.

What we needed/need from Jones is the right selections for his gameplan. And for his gameplan and tactics, training of the players in camp and on field leadership to all be better then Lancasters.

Jones has made the bold call of fielding almost exactly the same squad as Lancaster. This means to my mind he also agrees it's far more about tactics then the players.

Of course it could also be that he's killing two birds with one stone here. Giving a lot of experienced players the chance to prove they've still got it, and playing his most experienced side in a competitive tournament. If it comes off he has a good chance of winning the championship. If it doesn't he can say he's tested these players, they're not up to scratch and cap a lot of others over the summer.

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's good 6 or 7. Haskell is brilliant every 6 or 7 games games.

Perhaps we should judge them both after the tournament.

After all Dai Young has made Haskell consistently excellent since he arrived back at Wasps, and CoS has Robshaw playing to his best every game.

Let's see if Jones can do the same.

Not impressed if this leads to what we are all imagining.

In fact very unimpressed.... But I'll judge it on the selected team and the performances over the next 9 weeks.

king_carlos wrote:Chequered - I'm desperately hoping that he backs Devoto but it's looking painfully unlikely.

Ford and Farrell are clearly picked with game management and kicking in mind. Judging on Fords form and how Farrell has looked trying to influence a game from 12 when there for Sarries I don't think we will even get that though.

If Scotland can get a scrum advantage, which isn't an unimaginable thought with how strong their front row of Dickinson, Ford and Nel has looked for Edinburgh then we could be in trouble.

Our pack will have more carriers but if there isn't a platform to launch them from then Scotland have Hardie waiting to pounce.

I reckon we will win it due to a stronger bench and a few of Scotlands key backs being prone to brain farts or unforced errors at important moments - Russell and Hogg. Plus Farrell offering a strong goal kicking option from range to keep the board ticking.

I think it will be a stodgy affair though and frankly I'm sick of watching rugby games ruined by unambitious game plans.

Scotland will not play a negative game plan. They will attack at all opportunities and will vary the play. This gives chances to the opposition tho from dropped passes and turnovers. No way will sScotland attempt to wrestle England - they will attempt to run 'em ragged. It could well backfire but we do not have the players to play Gatlandball

yappysnap wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's good 6 or 7. Haskell is brilliant every 6 or 7 games games.

Perhaps we should judge them both after the tournament.

After all Dai Young has made Haskell consistently excellent since he arrived back at Wasps, and CoS has Robshaw playing to his best every game.

Let's see if Jones can do the same.

He sees what most of us have or do see in Haskell immense potential. The wizard of oz found a brain for scarecrow now for the brand!

ChequeredJersey wrote:

nobbled wrote:

BamBam wrote:Does that selection rhyme with Saro Litoje?

Fits with what we've been told though, Haskell, Robshaw and Clifford as match day flankers etc

Daly is the biggest error there for me. Other than including the slowest back 3 player in rugby history

I really don't understand why Goode gets England game time. I think his last decent game for England was 2011?

It's tricky because his club form is great, but great club form has translated to average England form for him in the past.

If he were starting it would actually be less insane, but as Brown is vice captain, that seems unlikely and as a bench option he just doesn't cover as much or add pace like say Daly would

From what I can remember he had a decent game against the AB's in THAT game, and had a great game fielding irish kicks and returning them with interest in that game in appalling weather in Ireland. The rest of the time I just think 'jink jink splat' as he tries to run the ball back, jinks one way then the other then runs straight into the opposition and gets smashed.

Maybe we have been lucky with Brown but you have confidence when he runs the ball back, almost always beating the first guy and giving the team a target. I have no confidence in Goode doing that at all.

7.5

If he can produce consistent top performances from haskell he really is the messiah.

Although a fully firing on top form consistent haskell is a hell of a player on the pitch!

Maybe giving Haskell a clear, specific task or two will help him play better.

Spot the difference
Stewie
Eddie

No, I can't either.

Anyway that's the 2 area of concern sorted then:
Stewie:  Wood, Robshaw, Billy
Eddie:  Robshaw, Haskell, Billy
Stewie:  Barritt, Joseph
Eddie:  Farrell, Joseph

At least Eddie wants Hartley kicking arris rather than Robshaw being nice

GeordieFalcon wrote:7.5

If he can produce consistent top performances from haskell he really is the messiah.  

Although a fully firing on top form consistent haskell is a hell of a player on the pitch!

In a word: simplify.

It seems to me there is a strong negative correlation between the complexity of Haskell's job on the pitch and the quality of his performance. He just doesn't seem to make good decisions on the fly.

Anyway, the mix of the squad is pretty much what I said when Eddie was appointed - start with the core of experience that Lancaster built up and then bring through a few new players at a time.

In an odd sort of way, one of the things that gives me most encouragement is that Eddie hasn't rushed Itoje into the squad. While the big lad has a lot of potential, he still has several good, young locks ahead of him and doesn't yet have the all round skill set that Kruis has. I've little doubt that he, George and others will come through over the next year or so, but in not giving in to the press clamour for him, Eddie is showing that he knows his own mind.

Poorfour wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:7.5

If he can produce consistent top performances from haskell he really is the messiah.  

Although a fully firing on top form consistent haskell is a hell of a player on the pitch!

In a word: simplify.

It seems to me there is a strong negative correlation between the complexity of Haskell's job on the pitch and the quality of his performance. He just doesn't seem to make good decisions on the fly.

Anyway, the mix of the squad is pretty much what I said when Eddie was appointed - start with the core of experience that Lancaster built up and then bring through a few new players at a time.

In an odd sort of way, one of the things that gives me most encouragement is that Eddie hasn't rushed Itoje into the squad. While the big lad has a lot of potential, he still has several good, young locks ahead of him and doesn't yet have the all round skill set that Kruis has. I've little doubt that he, George and others will come through over the next year or so, but in not giving in to the press clamour for him, Eddie is showing that he knows his own mind.

Poorfour, I thought the same about EJ doing it his way rather than going with media opinion 

Hopefully he'll show the same resolve with talented players even if they have a couple of games where they don't play to their potential 

Of course, there will be those who assume he has no idea because his selection doesn't agree with populist opinion, but I'll give him this 6N and the summer before making any kind of conclusion!

I trust Poorfour's usual analysis as much as any other poster or pundit, so I hope he's right this time.

It's just a bit galling after Jones' comments about real 7s!

But I think I've calmed down now. I still don't think Italy at home is a useful game to blood players, really: If they struggle, it becomes an awful potential first loss but if it's as easy as it sometimes is, it barely seems a test congruent with any of the other matches...

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Spot the difference
Stewie
Eddie

No, I can't either.

Anyway that's the 2 area of concern sorted then:
Stewie:  Wood, Robshaw, Billy
Eddie:  Robshaw, Haskell, Billy
Stewie:  Barritt, Joseph
Eddie:  Farrell, Joseph

At least Eddie wants Hartley kicking arris rather than Robshaw being nice

That of course is the difference, and its a step change from what went before. Back to the dog and aggression, bullying the opposition pack in maul and scrum. Its hardly going to be an attractive affair but i expect it to be efficient assuming of course that the rest of the world hasn't caught up by now.

ChequeredJersey wrote:...It's just a bit galling after Jones' comments about real 7s!...

I'll repeat: what Eddie Jones says, and what Eddie Jones does, are often completely different.

I don't think it's even mind games. It's more that he talks about what he'd like to do in an ideal world, and then does something different because it's not an ideal world.

It was a regular occurrence during his stint in Japan, and Wallaby supporters say they experienced it too (can't say I was really paying attention at the time).

If England don't do well will you fans give Eddie the time and patience to get it right...?

Reading a lot of hostility towards him and you haven't even seen him name the first team yet!

We will probably will, but I for one feel like I gave Lancaster a bit too much of my faith so I'm probably overcompensating