Ulster 2015/2016 Part 2

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Continue your discussion of all things Ulster here.

Rory some time ago but It was probably a case of keeping Arnold if Marshalls head injuries continued.
Also bearing in mind McCloskey had not come on the scene big time at that stage.

At no stage would Ulster have preferred Arnold to Marshall as a player - a view I share.
Arnold looks a very competent and accomplished player but Marshall has a spark about him.
I would reckon Arnold is on a par with Whitten and that's not too shabby - it is just we have a wealth of talent in the threes and as
I say if both Marshall and Payne do stay he is probably seen as surplus to requirements.

I answered my own question...
Heinrich Brüssow and Dewald Potgieter.
Neither of which would be much more exciting than Kankowski.

Oh and just in case the news sources don't realise he's actually Namibian, I'll throw in Shark's Renaldo Bothma to the mix.

Team

(15-9): L Ludik, C Gilroy, D Cave, S Olding, J Stockdale, I Humphreys, R Pienaar;
(1-8): C Black, R Herring (capt), R Lutton, A O'Connor, P Browne, R Diack, S Reidy, R Wilson;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, K McCall, B Ross, C Ross, N Williams, P Marshall, P Jackson, R Scholes.

Paddy Jackson !!!

Ah yes, that familiar conflicting feeling of "that's a disgrace...but...wait thats good for Ulster!"


Having McCall, Williams and Jackson to bring on should get us the result we need.

Big surprise to me Madigan is still ahead of Jackson given recent form. Madigan can cover 12 a bit better, but thats the only real advantage in my eyes. Looks like Jackson is either going to be starting games or not making the 23.

Don't like it tbh. Madigan is not going to ever replace Sexton, but Jackson can. And PJ coming off the bench to close out games will get us to a point where we have genuine competition at 10 far, far quicker.

Good to see Stockdale start. That is a strong, strong bench.

The idea that Madigan is on the Ireland bench ahead of Jackson is, frankly, staggering. Especially given the ropey form of Sexton.

Dragons: C Meyer, A Hewitt, A Hughes, A Warren, H Amos, A O’Brien, C Davies, P Price, E Dee, B Harris, M Screech, R Landman (captain), B White, N Cudd, E Jackson. Replacements: R Buckley, B Stankovich, S Knight, C Hill, J Benjamin, S Pretorius, GR Jones, N Scott

Basically, you will lose but now probably not by much with the changes Lyp has made

Hewitt is in good form for us. O'Brien is a young flyhalf that doesn't get many opportunities. Charlie Davies is our second choice 9. We are pretty short in the backrow, with temporary loan cover at 6 and Ed Jackson at 8 who isn't meant to be fully fit. We have next to no impact off the bench in the outside backs, with GR Jones being a Premiership player at best and Nick Scott having done nothing since his move.

Ulster pretty comfortably. Probably with a bonus too.

Happy with the ulster team. Absolutely gutted to see Jackson back. He is the best ten in Ireland right now and should've starting on Sunday.

Good team. It would be great if we can take 5 points from this game.

Schmidt still wearing the blue tinted specs, I see. GWAN D4

Normally I can see Joe's logic even if I don't agree with it. But this time m very confused. Will be intresting to hear his thinking

Best explanation on offer is he's thinking of an all Ulster backline but wants to ward off an Leinster rebellion with Johnny Token .... sorry Sexton in at 10.

Jokes aside if his choices in the backs are a debutant 12 or a relatively inexperienced 12 who's just coming back from injury then he may just want that experience at 10 to settle things ... even if Sexton has no form at the moment.

So if you're set on Sexton at 10, I totally understand Madigan for the bench due to his general relativity.

Versatility, do you mean? That argument makes no sense to me, and for different reasons. There's more than enough versatility throughout the backs, to cover for 15 and centre. Madigan provides poor cover at fb, and isn't all that hot at centre either. There are much better options within the backs. Madigan isn't a great game manager, Jackson is proving that he his. Not only that, but he's the form 10 in Ireland right now.

The only thing to favour Madigan is his kicking from the tee, but then Jackson has much improved on that this season.

Ireland don't need Madigan on the bench - Jackson is a better cover for 10, Payne is a better cover than Madigan for 15 (with Earls going to 13), Sexton and Jackson can work as a 10/12 as well as Sexton/Madigan.

Madigan is there because the blue specs are still in vogue

Madigan may have General Relativity, but when it comes to outhalf play he's no Einstein

Madigan would have better knowledge of Joe's plays from these positions.

The other thing is Schmidt doesn't like to shuffle players around - i.e. moving players from wing to centre to fullback mid game, as per what happened against Argentina. Madigan would be a straight swap replacement, whereas Jackson would move to 10 and the back line would be rejigged.

If Sexton is capable he'll play 80 min so Jackson is better getting gametime than being on the bench.  

What this does suggest is that McCloskey will be in the 23.

If McCloskey is in the 23 he must start surely? There's no point in having Madigan on the bench as a guy who can cover centre and then the other replacement is also a centre.

I think it will be Reddan, Madigan and D. Kearney on the bench.

It stinks, Paddy must be wondering what he needs to do to get some form of recognition. If Joe goes for the same lineup in the same positions I am going to very quickly lose any faith in the man. A shakeup was needed which the RWC proved but is Joe willing to lose the Leinster man love and move on to international duties?

Arnold to leave, going to Munster.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/14562.php#.VrN4m0sU6hM

Good news really- he'll get a lot more game time down there. Guess it also means we're holding into Marshall, Olding and McCloskey.

Fair play to the lad.

That's good. For all concerned. Fingers crossed that's the only centre to leave. KOTH certainly has good sources. You have to wonder just who he knows, or who he is!

That's good news for Arnold, Ulster and Munster. I really like Arnold, but I wouldn't want to keep him at the expense of possibly losing one of the others.
Hopefully we can hang on to Scholes as well. I would rather lose Bowe than Scholes right now, maybe even Gilroy.

clivemcl wrote:That's good. For all concerned. Fingers crossed that's the only centre to leave. KOTH certainly has good sources. You have to wonder just who he knows, or who he is!

He's Geoff
Aren't you Geoff ????

And now this little tease from KOTH

"Ulster have pulled the rabbit out of the hat. Unbelievable work from Bryn!!"

The big signing?

Pocock?

Have to say that he must talk to managers in the club my sources are a handful of players.

Good luck to Arnold and my take on that is Marshall and Payne are definitely staying.

KOTH has a habit of adding mischief with knowledge.
I am hoping that the Arnold and Scholes post was because one was true and the other was a wind up
Add to that Kiss saying we are losing no one we want to keep so hopefully Scholes is not an issue, as I say he does have a contract next year.
It doesn't add up to me

Happy for Arnold. Maybe not be remembering this right but I think I read somewhere that he has a great deal more loyalty to the Irish system than then English one who dumped him at quite an early age. There was a Telegraph or Mail article on him once, the feeling was he was "the one that got away".

Hopefully Munster can find a decent 10 (not too good though) and he can get some regular game time there.

The 10 would have to be Irish though so I think they will stuggle - need someone like Scannell to come good

Scannell looked pretty handy in their game against Leinster recently. Their 10 with an unpronounceable name was awful.

I suspect KOTH is either referring to us keeping all our other centers and accepting only to release Arnold, or he has heard the NIQ signing and is impressed.

Who knows... but it's a good sign he is happy about something !

Well it looks like Munster might be allowed a Project 10

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/munster-have-lined-up-johan-goosen/323506

If only they had been able to produce a young quality IQ fly half of their own

marty2086 wrote:If only they had been able to produce a young quality IQ fly half of their own

Yeah but players like that don't grow on trees.  I can't think of the last time Munster had a 10 who was nominated as player of the tournament in a U20 World Cup ....

Stuart McCloskey like Paddy has been deemed surplus to requirements by Ireland.

So being the form player in your position doesn't count for 10 and 12 then - lets stick with what came up short in the World Cup

Only Best, Payne, Trimble involved by the look of it.

Feckng hell

And in his place Joes picking two full backs and playing a winger at full back?

What about Marshall?

Out as well, I assume, without R. Kearney looks like the 10-15 with subs will be:
Sexton, Madigan, Henshaw, Payne, Trimble, Earls, Zebo, D. Kearney


Schmidt is starting to show signs of insanity one definition of which is 'keeping doing the same again and again and expect a different result'

Whats the point of releasing at this late stage anyway? I doubt Ulster will drop them in at this late stage so surely they gain more from being in camp and getting another training session in with the squad and being around the prematch environment?

I don't know, but think they are dropped from the 23, and will still remain with Ireland. McCloskey and Jackson will probably get some game time in the 4th and 5th games. Probably.
I'm still more annoyed that Jackson isn't starting, or benched, this week.

Jackson isn't with Ireland he is with Ulster - don't know about the other two but I am guessing the same

He is, but I doubt he's dropped from the Ireland squad, geoff. Probably more a case of keeping him fresh, and returning to training next week.

A guy on the other forum is claiming he has a reliable source within UR who confirmed with him we have signed Coetzee. Never mind a pinch - arm yourself with a bucket of salt. That said, people questioned him and he went on to hint his mate was involved in a financial area of the club and that's how he's 'in the know'.

Like I say though... salt.

Coetzee would fit right in with all the rumours.

Munchkin wrote:Coetzee would fit right in with all the rumours.

...and with the prayer meetings

This is true. That may also have been a factor in helping Piutau decide

geoff999rugby wrote:So being the form player in your position doesn't count for 10 and 12 then - lets stick with what came up short in the World Cup .

Let's remember that Henshaw and Payne didn't start a game together at the World Cup, and that Sexton was injured in the very early stages of our first important game. I would say a Madigan, Henshaw and Earls partnership would be sticking to what came up short in the World Cup. Saying he's doing the same things is very revisionist if I'm honest... Things may have actually gone very differently in the quarter-final id Sexton and Payne were fit in terms of having leaders and organisers in the back line from the first minute onwards.

geoff999rugby wrote:Schmidt is starting to show signs of insanity one definition of which is 'keeping doing the same again and again and expect a different result'

Seems to me that with Healy, Ross, Moore, Henderson, O'Connell, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Bowe and Kearney all missing he couldn't do the same thing if he wanted to. Just like he couldn't do what won us our last Six Nations title in the quarter-final with Sexton and Payne missing. In fact, it seems like he's going back to a combination which was extremely effective last year in the Six Nations to provide some continuity because of many, many enforced changes elsewhere in the team with key players either retired or injured.

Not the most inexplicable policy to have players who are familiar combinations where possible in a team where there are a lot of new guys coming in. Disappointed for McCloskey but not surprised and expecting him to make his debut in the next month or two. Every time a new player comes through we want him to make his debut yesterday, but evolution is better than revolution.

Munchkin wrote:This is true. That may also have been a factor in helping Piutau decide

I noticed that Piutau's repped by Esportif, Bryns old crew. Wonder if that helped with the deal