Ulster 2015/2016 Part 2

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Continue your discussion of all things Ulster here.

Wasn't it Bryn himself that closed the signing?
Piutau did say that it was his faith that guided him to make the decision to sign, and having the likes of Ludik, Herbst, Pienaar, P Marshall and the rest, at Ulster, must be a comfort. Nick Williams made mention of the fact that some of those guys have helped him this season, also.

Joe on his centre selections,

We looked hard at the Stuart McCloskey-Luke Marshall combination as a second [option]... but the two guys did well against Wales last year. Jared made a lot of metres and Robbie was one of our go-to players.

marty2086 wrote:Joe on his centre selections,

We looked hard at the Stuart McCloskey-Luke Marshall combination as a second [option]... but the two guys did well against Wales last year. Jared made a lot of metres and Robbie was one of our go-to players.

Yep Joe that was last year and we lost.

I was at the Welsh game Henshaw and Payne didn't threaten Wales at all.

I also don't buy the theory that they have been retained because of changed elsewhere.
Even if ever professional player in Ireland was available Joe would still have picked Henshaw and Payne.

Call me old fashioned but when your underperforming 15 is missing, you have the form centre available and one of your centres is the best 15 in Ireland, and by some distance the decision, is an obvious one; especially as the centre combo you have previously selected has looked toothless in attack.

Very disappointed with the team.

Happy for Trimble, but I can't say I feel he should be there. It's just the World Cup team which Schimdt wished he had fit 5 months ago.

We could well lose to Wales, and he's not going to risk McCloskey or any other new players for England away or France away. So if we're "lucky", we might be out of the competition before we face Italy on the 12th and Scotland on the 19th March. They might get a run out then.

Very good point Redman. Team is unlikely to change now that he has picked conservatively.

Only just noticed Stander is in at 6 and Heaslip retained at 8.

Goes to show the power of central contracts. Same with Earls, he's fit and just signed a new IFRU contract so he plays. That's it. Well done to CJ though.

Redman wrote:Only just noticed Stander is in at 6 and Heaslip retained at 8.  

Goes to show the power of central contracts.  Same with Earls, he's fit and just signed a new IFRU contract so he plays.  That's it.  Well done to CJ though.  

The only player you could pick at Heaslips expense in the current squad is Ruddock who can play 6 with Stander at 8, I don't think Ruddock has done enough to oust him.

Plus Heaslips the vice captain, once that was announced he was always going to play barring injury which he very very rarely is

Once POM is fit I can't see Heaslip making the 23 on current form

marty2086 wrote:

Redman wrote:Only just noticed Stander is in at 6 and Heaslip retained at 8.  

Goes to show the power of central contracts.  Same with Earls, he's fit and just signed a new IFRU contract so he plays.  That's it.  Well done to CJ though.  

The only player you could pick at Heaslips expense in the current squad is Ruddock who can play 6 with Stander at 8, I don't think Ruddock has done enough to oust him.

Plus Heaslips the vice captain, once that was announced he was always going to play barring injury which he very very rarely is

Once POM is fit I can't see Heaslip making the 23 on current form

I don't know if you'd consider anyone from Connacht? I take your point, but the general narrative of the selection seems to be to fit certain people in rather than form. I include Trimble in that assessment. Geoff's point on partnerships I think is valid. McCloskey and Marshall have actually played rugby together recently. The same cannot be said of Henshaw and Payne, both will have IRFU contracts by year's end.

It's quite easy to think that Kearney would have been picked as well if he hadn't been injured. Zebo (who isn't centrally contracted, as far as I'm aware) would be dropped.

Sean Reidy and Peter Browne are looking sharp in this game.

Stockdale certainly looks very promising.

So olding having been out for pretty much a season and a bit is looking this good after 2 games? Admittedly I have only had half an eye on the first half (son teething widest a school discowith daughter) but seriously he has some talent

But on the down side why do ulster look like the team that started the season rather than the team from the last two months

Frak

Stuart Olding down. Not the knee but he is completely out cold. His luck is just dreadful.

Back on his feet and he looks okay! Going off for the concussion protocols. It would be better to keep him off for the rest of the game honestly. I really wish there was a day I could watch the guy without fear every single time he touches the ball.

Jesus that did not look good at all. Glad to see him walk off and looking like hekbew what was going on.

Bad miss from Paddy Jackson to be honest and this is why he is second fiddle to Ian Madigan on the bench. Kicking from the tee is vital at test level especially. He just needs to find the consistency because the ability is clearly there.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Bad miss from Paddy Jackson to be honest and this is why he is second fiddle to Ian Madigan on the bench. Kicking from the tee is vital at test level especially. He just needs to find the consistency because the ability is clearly there.

How about that one!

Marshes wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Bad miss from Paddy Jackson to be honest and this is why he is second fiddle to Ian Madigan on the bench. Kicking from the tee is vital at test level especially. He just needs to find the consistency because the ability is clearly there.

How about that one!

Yeah what a load of drivel, Paddy Jackson is a flipping hero!

Delighted to see Stuart back on the pitch talking and shaking the hands of all the players. Great end all around.

Jesus Christos.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Marshes wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Bad miss from Paddy Jackson to be honest and this is why he is second fiddle to Ian Madigan on the bench. Kicking from the tee is vital at test level especially. He just needs to find the consistency because the ability is clearly there.

How about that one!

Yeah what a load of drivel, Paddy Jackson is a flipping hero!

Was watching the Ireland u20 until it became a dead rubber, big win with so many players away, and what a kick to win it! Jackson and McCloskey looked like they were playing to make a point at the end

Well that was.....hard work. But good result in the end

a win is a win is a win is a win

considering the forced substitutions and players out of position

fair play to Dragons who played well

special mention to paul marshall who did very well in my opinion out of position.

one negative... i felt mccloskey and olding were a little to ball greedy tonight. Both with points to prove and forcing it sometimes.

very relieved

I do believe I just heard Kiss state it was a 'tough auld win for us'!

First, Dragons gave us a hell of a game, and there would be no complaints from me had they won, gutted as I would have been. Very well played Dragons  
Thought it was a great game, even with the errors, and had me on edge throughout. A real physical battle, with some great play from the Dragons,
Reidy was looking like Williams at times today. The guy really is coming on very well. Thought Stockdale had a great game for his first run out, and definitely shows much promise for the future.
Heart near stopped when I saw Olding go down, but thankfully he looks in fine form after his blow to the head. Also think he played well considering he has just returned to the senior side after a long spell in recovery.

Paddy Jackson, an absolute star in every respect. Should have been starting/benched tomorrow for Ireland, but so thankful that he was there to save the day.

Now, just for me to try and relax after that game ...

Reidy effectively scored twice as he was in line to score when the penalty try was awarded. Great player to have at Ulster backing up the first choice!

He did, Clive. I actually felt a bit disappointed for him, even though we got the penalty try. Very much a great player to have at Ulster, and that's something I didn't think I would be saying after his slow start with Ulster!

Some off the cuff observations

Reidy continues to improve and has out performed Henry this year
Paddy shows he has bottle to No 1 for Ireland - again
If Paddy and McCloskey hadn't been on the bench we would have lost
Browne put in a decent shift
Stockdale has potential but is very raw
The tackling was abysmal
Lutton doesn't have a brain - some truly dumb penalties he gave a way
Humphreys was worse than awful - again

Spole to Chris Henry and Dan Tuohy before the game.
chris says he is targeting next week and Dan said March.
Now given players are incurable optimist I would suggest Chris against Scarlets and Dan the end of March

geoff999rugby wrote:Some off the cuff observations

Reidy continues to improve and has out perfo  rmed Henry this year - He's done better, but is still a distance off Henry in his prime.  A useful squad option at this stage
Paddy shows he has bottle to  No 1 for Ireland - again - I'm not his biggest fan but you have give him credit.  He went looking to be the game winner there tonight, but was humble with the MOTM award
If Paddy and McCloskey hadn't been on the bench we would have lost - couldn't agree more
Browne put in a decent shift - totally, the vitriol leveled against him on the "other forum" is disgusting.  He's not great, but he's a useful squad member.  Was especially prominent in the first 20 minutes.
Stockdale has potential but is very raw - very raw.  But you can see why they keep him over Arnold.  Isn't going to be competing for the 15 position, but may cause teams problems on the overlap
The tackling was abysmal - especially the first up tackling.  Dragons just eaked out yards every time they took contact.  First 5 mins being a prime example.  You have to give them credit though, they're a well coached team with fairly average players
Lutton doesn't have a brain - some truly dumb penalties he gave a way - big fan of Lutton but he always seems to let us down when he starts.  He's the forwards equivalent to Paul Marshall
Humphreys was worse than awful - again - Huge fan of Humphreys back in the day.  He had the X-Factor .... but those days are long gone.  He was SO creative that we used to be able to survive his tackling in defense, but he now seems scared of contact in attack.  He's passing so early that the opposition just drift and we lose any advantage the forwards have fought so hard to win

Spole to Chris Henry and Dan Tuohy before the game.
chris says he is targeting next week and Dan said March.
Now given players are incurable optimist I would suggest Chris against Scarlets and Dan the end of March

Pretty much agree on every point.  

Can't believe how good Dragons were though.  Wouldn't have been too upset if they'd have sneaked it.  

That's great news on Henry.  Hope he comes back refreshed and ready for action.

Dragons did well considering we are meant to be getting relegated to the semi pro league according to some. Did all I could want really and showed some ambition and didn't go to Lyn's usual kick and poorly chase tactics. I knew on 72 we wouldn't hold on, but still a horrible way to lose with three to go. Our first try though. Peach.

As an aside, I'll never complain about Chum V again. Shocking delay on highlights by BBC2NI. They get to show a decent try at HT and preferred to have the dribble on in the studio, then I've never seen a full on hand shake session and tunnel like I've seen tonight. Wow. Hope Ross Harries watches and takes notes

And congrats Ulster. I am rather fond of your team, given I've met a few top supporters off here and through work. Plus it's a stadium and city I love after last season, even though we didn't do quite as well. Just maybe stop butchering our stand up for the men of Gwent song?

RiscaGame wrote:Dragons did well considering we are meant to be getting relegated to the semi pro league according to some. Did all I could want really and showed some ambition and didn't go to Lyn's usual kick and poorly chase tactics. I knew on 72 we wouldn't hold on, but still a horrible way to lose with three to go. Our first try though. Peach.

Unlucky last night Risca- was a great away performance. Confirms what I've always known about the Dragons- you can never take them for granted. You never beat them without playing well. They showed plenty of ambition with the ball and were really tough to break down without it.

Redman just to clarify I agree Reidy is not playing anywhere near Henry in his prime but this season neither is Henry.
Slight concern is Henry going to get back to where he was before his illness scare?

I have to say I'm very glad I didn't post on here last night because I was, shall we say, slightly 'aggrieved' at a number of decisions and I'm not sure I would have been showing off my best side

If you mean Owens was poor I agree - one of his worst games at Ravenhill.

Thankfully it doesn't sound like sour grapes saying that.

More to do with the TMO going back about 5 minutes to look forensically for a knock-on, but not checking some very high tackles or their try for crossing. I was pretty... animated about that at the time.

Notch wrote:More to do with the TMO going back about 5 minutes to look forensically for a knock-on, but not checking some very high tackles or their try for crossing. I was pretty... animated about that at the time.

I wasn't as animated, I just sat and seethed with rage. I have always enjoyed how Owens allows the game to flow but he was missing some real howlers. I feel as though we stole that win mind you and I'll take that any day of the week.

With respect to our disallowed try - the referee can only go back two phases to determine an infringement.

Correct me if I am wrong but the knock on was definitely more than two phases and such Owens should have allowed the try.

The other biggy for me was Owens forgot the offside rule last night and as Dragons were well organized that stifled our backs

Don't want to be banging a broken drum here but Ulster score a try and they go way, way back looking for a knock-on. This happens to Olding and they don't even check with the TMO!

https://vine.co/v/iJYwHHMaZtE

I just... I can't...

At least we escaped with the win.

Notch wrote:More to do with the TMO going back about 5 minutes to look forensically for a knock-on, but not checking some very high tackles or their try for crossing. I was pretty... animated about that at the time.

The TMO didn't take too long over Dragons first try, from one of the angles it looked like there may have been an elbow in touch. It would have been harsh on them if it had have been ruled out though

marty2086 wrote:

Notch wrote:More to do with the TMO going back about 5 minutes to look forensically for a knock-on, but not checking some very high tackles or their try for crossing. I was pretty... animated about that at the time.

The TMO didn't take too long over Dragons first try, from one of the angles it looked like there may have been an elbow in touch. It would have been harsh on them if it had have been ruled out though

Their first try was absolutely terrific.

Notch wrote:Don't want to be banging a broken drum here but Ulster score a try and they go way, way back looking for a knock-on. This happens to Olding and they don't even check with the TMO!

https://vine.co/v/iJYwHHMaZtE

I just... I can't...

At least we escaped with the win.

When I first saw that I thought the defending player was leading with the shoulder. It did look to me that he deliberately turned the shoulder to hit Olding. I wasn't sure, so I didn't mention it, and now that I have seen it again I think it deserves a citing.

Owens had a truly bad game, Friday evening. Although I do think he is a good ref, I have never liked him reffing Ulster, especially against the other Provinces, and it comes across to me that he has a chip on his shoulder with Best, although Best wasn't playing in this game. Pity we didn't have Henderson to knock him on his arse again.

Agree I thought so at the time and the video confirms it - the Dragons player led with the shoulder - should be cited

Les Kiss looked absolutely livid at the time. I'm still not sure what to make of it, although it was careless.

I thought at the time he led with his shoulder.  That's the 2nd or 3rd time Olding has been KOed I believe.

The TMO ruled the try out.  Owens specifically asked if it was within 2 rucks and the TMO said it was.  

Owens is a top ref, he doesn't second guess himself.  That's fine when he makes good calls and it's a cliché but he does allow the game to flow, and it did.  For the Olding incident though he immediately said to Herring that he was happy with it and wouldn't review.  Would be strong reffing if he had of been right ..... not convinced he was.  Can't argue that their 15 was either competing in the air or used arms in a tackle.  He's turned to avoid frontal contact from an on rushing Olding and connected with his shoulder.  It's reckless for me.

geoff999rugby wrote:With respect to our disallowed try - the referee can only go back two phases to determine an infringement.

Correct me if I am wrong but the knock on was definitely more than two phases and such Owens should have allowed the try.

The other biggy for me was Owens forgot the offside rule last night and as Dragons were well organized that stifled our backs

Questioning the referee? Thats disgraceful stuff. An embarrassment to Ulster, Geoff, thats what you are.

greygoose wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:With respect to our disallowed try - the referee can only go back two phases to determine an infringement.

Correct me if I am wrong but the knock on was definitely more than two phases and such Owens should have allowed the try.

The other biggy for me was Owens forgot the offside rule last night and as Dragons were well organized that stifled our backs

Questioning the referee? Thats disgraceful stuff. An embarrassment to Ulster, Geoff, thats what you are.

Be a T W A T elsewhere goose

Pete330v2 wrote:

greygoose wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:With respect to our disallowed try - the referee can only go back two phases to determine an infringement.

Correct me if I am wrong but the knock on was definitely more than two phases and such Owens should have allowed the try.

The other biggy for me was Owens forgot the offside rule last night and as Dragons were well organized that stifled our backs

Questioning the referee? Thats disgraceful stuff. An embarrassment to Ulster, Geoff, thats what you are.

Be a T W A T elsewhere goose

Ah, come now Pete, he's questioned the ref, that's not how a whiter than white fan behaves, have to clamp down on that sort of behaviour.