Ireland 2016/17 season

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AI's
Nov 5th New Zealand vs Ireland Chicago
Nov 12th Ireland vs Canada
Nov 19th Ireland Vs New Zealand
Nov 26th Ireland vs Australia


6 Nations
Feb 4th Scotland vs Ireland
Feb 11th Italy vs Ireland
Feb 25th Ireland vs France
Mar 10th Wales vs Ireland
Mar 18th Ireland vs England

Isn't Henderson injured and Earls suspended?

I thought that Henderson was injured and therefore out of the reckoning for the Chicago game?

And Earls is banned for two weeks so he can't be involved either or will he be free to play?

Yeah they're both out of the 1st game but part of the squad for the home matches.

Not sure what rob k is doing there? Ohallarhan or Olding should be in front of him

What the f*** has Rob Kearney done in the past year to be in that squad?

Decent squad - bit of fresh blood.

I thought TOH was injured? No McFadden - it's a disgrace, so it is.

McFadden wants to keep his "never lost to New Zealand" record intact.

Pot Hale wrote:McFadden wants to keep his "never lost to New Zealand" record intact.

Eh what?

Olding is an interesting omission to say the least.

I think I read somewhere that Olding has a problem with his hip.

profitius wrote:J Ryan, Bealham, Healy, J McGrath, Furlong
Tracy, Best, Cronin
Don Ryan, Toner, Holland, Henderson, Dillane
VDF, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Stander, J Murphy

Sexton, Jackson, Carbery
L McGrath, Marmion, Murray
Marshall, Henshaw, Ringrose, Payne
Zebo, Trimble, Gilroy, Earls, R Kearney


6 uncapped players but deserves to be in there.

Rob Kearney is somehow included so I presume Payne is a center.
Ross not included. Olding also misses out.

I think Olding might have picked up a knock against Exeter- to be honest, the way things are going at Ulster I'm just glad to lose as few players to Ireland as possible. The less disruption the better! Right now, John Ryan should be the starting tight head for Ireland so I'm just delighted to see him included. Also Carberry ahead of Madigan is good.

Expecting Henshaw and Payne at centre, but hoping for Marshall and Henshaw with Payne at 15.

Notch wrote:

profitius wrote:J Ryan, Bealham, Healy, J McGrath, Furlong
Tracy, Best, Cronin
Don Ryan, Toner, Holland, Henderson, Dillane
VDF, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Stander, J Murphy

Sexton, Jackson, Carbery
L McGrath, Marmion, Murray
Marshall, Henshaw, Ringrose, Payne
Zebo, Trimble, Gilroy, Earls, R Kearney


6 uncapped players but deserves to be in there.

Rob Kearney is somehow included so I presume Payne is a center.
Ross not included. Olding also misses out.

I think Olding might have picked up a knock against Exeter- to be honest, the way things are going at Ulster I'm just glad to lose as few players to Ireland as possible. The less disruption the better! Right now, John Ryan should be the starting tight head for Ireland so I'm just delighted to see him included. Also Carberry ahead of Madigan is good.

Expecting Henshaw and Payne at centre, but hoping for Marshall and Henshaw with Payne at 15.

Agree with this statement 100%. It will be absolutely be Henshaw and Payne. In fact, I would bet money on the backline looking like this:

Murray - Sexton
Henshaw - Payne
Zebo - Kearney - Trimble

Meh.

If we win I don't care. My suspicion is that we will not either way, but IF we do- none of us will care at all.

Of course, but a game designed to contain the All Blacks isn't going to work. We need a team who can actually score some points of their own.

As always, it is about picking the team most likely to win. The team above hardly inspires confidence. Although I understand that whatever team we select we are probably going to lose, I would still rather we gave them our best rather than sit back and absorb for 80 minutes.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Of course, but a game designed to contain the All Blacks isn't going to work. We need a team who can actually score some points of their own.

As always, it is about picking the team most likely to win. The team above hardly inspires confidence. Although I understand that whatever team we select we are probably going to lose, I would still rather we gave them our best rather than sit back and absorb for 80 minutes.

With the lack of preparation time and travel required, it wouldn't surprise me if the US game v. the ABs will just be a training run of sorts. Ireland has a much better chance in the Aviva having played a couple of other test matches.

Notch wrote:

profitius wrote:J Ryan, Bealham, Healy, J McGrath, Furlong
Tracy, Best, Cronin
Don Ryan, Toner, Holland, Henderson, Dillane
VDF, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Stander, J Murphy

Sexton, Jackson, Carbery
L McGrath, Marmion, Murray
Marshall, Henshaw, Ringrose, Payne
Zebo, Trimble, Gilroy, Earls, R Kearney


6 uncapped players but deserves to be in there.

Rob Kearney is somehow included so I presume Payne is a center.
Ross not included. Olding also misses out.

I think Olding might have picked up a knock against Exeter- to be honest, the way things are going at Ulster I'm just glad to lose as few players to Ireland as possible. The less disruption the better! Right now, John Ryan should be the starting tight head for Ireland so I'm just delighted to see him included. Also Carberry ahead of Madigan is good.

Expecting Henshaw and Payne at centre, but hoping for Marshall and Henshaw with Payne at 15.

He's done well but lets not over egg the pudding.Healy was pretty comfortable against him for Leinster and he's not even our best LH.I'm not trying to knock him,his form has been excellent this year but he's behind Furlong in experience both with the squad and at Test level.Never mind the fact that Furlong has been excellent in a pretty dominant Leinster scrum.

Why has Ross missed out, too old?

mikey_dragon wrote:Why has Ross missed out, too old?

More a case of mobility. Furlong, John Ryan and Bealham are all more mobile. The opposition have been targeting Ross for some time.


He can still be called on if Ryan and Bealham doesn't work out.

So whats the back row going to look like?

I would go with the following 6. POM 7. VDF 8. Heaslip and Stander off the bench. POM is still short of game time so id rather get everything out of him from the start and then bring on Stander early on in the second half.

I really hope Joe will have learned from SA and use his subs earlier to maximize their impact.

Golden wrote:So whats the back row going to look like?

I would go with the following  6. POM 7. VDF 8. Heaslip and Stander off the bench. POM is still short of game time so id rather get everything out of him from the start and then bring on Stander early on in the second half.

I really hope Joe will have learned from SA and use his subs earlier to maximize their impact.

Yeah that would be the backrow I'd like to see (I though PoM would need more time but he seems to have got back up to speed really quickly),I think we need PoM and Heaslip in there to give us options on our lineout and to attack theirs.Stander then offers huge impact off the bench and can cover all 3 positions.Dillane and Toner in the 2nd row offer a lot in the set piece and both can both carry and pass (Toner isn't a dynamic carrier but he generally gives you safe ball).

Dont know if Dillane's fitness levels are up to scratch for a starting place. It was an issue down in SA. I'd go for Ryan starting and Dillane on the bench.

Nice to see Holland getting rewarded with a call up. Id expect to see him against Canada.

Golden wrote:Dont know if Dillane's fitness levels are up to scratch for a starting place. It was an issue down in SA.  I'd go for Ryan starting and Dillane on the bench.

Nice to see Holland getting rewarded with a call up. Id expect to see him against Canada.

I doubt if you will see many Munster players v. Canada. Munster have the Maori the night before.

Golden wrote:Dont know if Dillane's fitness levels are up to scratch for a starting place. It was an issue down in SA.  I'd go for Ryan starting and Dillane on the bench.

Nice to see Holland getting rewarded with a call up. Id expect to see him against Canada.

I think we lack ball carriers that way,outside our backrow only Furlong is an explosive carrier and we need options imo.Ryan can carry but not at that level and if he's coming on along with Stander,Healy and Cronin then we add to our ball carrying impact in the 2nd half.

Looks like Stander will be starting,PoM is playig for Munster at the weekend but he's held back.Stander/van der Flier/Heaslip with PoM on the bench would be my pick so.

Little disappointed TOH has not been included in this squad over Rob Kearney, also though there might be a space for Niyi, but I do think it is only a matter of time for those two if fitness allows. Hopefully it gets them up to prove a point on the weekend! Kearney is like a comfort blanket to Joe, although I have heard he has started the season well.

What would be really disappointing is seeing Rob Kearney come back to the starting 15 when we saw how danger Payne, Henshaw and Marshall are in their preferred positions over the summer. Marshall brings distribution with the boot that Henshaw doesn't have, Henshaw is more of a linebreaking threat than Payne on the outside while still an excellent defender, and Payne is excellent as a playmaker from fullback. Would feel like a step backwards to crowbar in Rob Kearney

Interesting that half the matchday squad that ran the ABs so close three years ago are no longer in the frame. Also some of those that remain are a shadow of their former selves: Healey, Best, SOB, Sexton, Trimble and Kearney. The team that rattled the ABs and threatened their unbeaten run is in little danger of a repeat performance either in the US or at home.

What is the point in naming players who are carrying injuries - other than giving them a free trip to watch the game in Chicago?

If this 34 man squad is going to form the bones of the next RWC squad then Joe needs to start right now and give the inexperienced guys the gift of the first game against the ABs in Chicago. No one will expect anything from them and they can leave everything on the pitch. Something like: JMcGrath, Tracy, Furlong, DRyan, Dillane, POM, VDF, Stander; LMcGrath, Jackson, Zebo, Henshaw , Ringrose, Gilroy, Payne.
Reps: Bealham, Cronin, JRyan, Murphy, Holland, Marmion, Carbery, Kearnery

Can someone tell me how many players the IRFU has released back to play in the Pro12 this weekend? The WRU has deigned to release a mighty four players for the regional derbies.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Can someone tell me how many players the IRFU has released back to play in the Pro12 this weekend? The WRU has deigned to release a mighty four players for the regional derbies.

We won't know until the Leinster and Connacht teams are named but I'd imagine that pretty much everyone outside the starting 15 will be released back to the provinces.That's how it looks so far with Jackson and PoM playing for Munster and Ulster.

Thanks. I had heard on Twitter you'd be getting a load of players released. Makes our four look even more meagre.

I think it's strategic with Ireland camp.  I'm not so certain Schmidt and his coaches are really waiting for the last day to pick the side he thinks should play the first game.  I think all these things are pre-planned pretty much well in advance so, for example, Leinster get 'asked' to not give Sexton too hard a journey in the run in and lo and behold, he leaves his last Provincial game early and everyone goes into shock.  Where's the shock?  It's tactics to help as much as possible present the players Joe wants for the first game to Get To that first game - ready for the battle.
There is not a lot then to be gained in holding onto players that can be allowed back to Provinces to keep them fresh in real competitive games.
Wales seem to play things more close to the chest.  Keeping players in International camp to keep up the intensity in training and I suppose to keep more mainstream players on their toes.... and to keep the opposition guessing.

SecretFly wrote:I think it's strategic with Ireland camp.  I'm not so certain Schmidt and his coaches are really waiting for the last day to pick the side he thinks should play the first game.  I think all these things are pre-planned pretty much well in advance so, for example, Leinster get 'asked' to not give Sexton too hard a journey in the run in and lo and behold, he leaves his last Provincial game early and everyone goes into shock.  Where's the shock?  It's tactics to help as much as possible present the players Joe wants for the first game to Get To that first game - ready for the battle.
There is not a lot then to be gained in holding onto players that can be allowed back to Provinces to keep them fresh in real competitive games.
Wales seem to play things more close to the chest.  Keeping players in International camp to keep up the intensity in training and I suppose to keep more mainstream players on their toes.... and to keep the opposition guessing.

I'd say the reason Sexton & O'Brien were taken off so early was because the pitch was awful and they were likely to do damage to themselves.

They probably will have a lot of promotion to do this week (they are flying out on Monday), so that could be why they are bringing a lot of the high profile players like Kearney.

SecretFly wrote:I think it's strategic with Ireland camp.  I'm not so certain Schmidt and his coaches are really waiting for the last day to pick the side he thinks should play the first game.  I think all these things are pre-planned pretty much well in advance so, for example, Leinster get 'asked' to not give Sexton too hard a journey in the run in and lo and behold, he leaves his last Provincial game early and everyone goes into shock.  Where's the shock?  It's tactics to help as much as possible present the players Joe wants for the first game to Get To that first game - ready for the battle.
There is not a lot then to be gained in holding onto players that can be allowed back to Provinces to keep them fresh in real competitive games.
Wales seem to play things more close to the chest.  Keeping players in International camp to keep up the intensity in training and I suppose to keep more mainstream players on their toes.... and to keep the opposition guessing.

I just think it's deeply unhelpful for the regions that so few players have been released for the derby games. Yes, a player might get injured, but we've seen players get injured in training anyway.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I think it's strategic with Ireland camp.  I'm not so certain Schmidt and his coaches are really waiting for the last day to pick the side he thinks should play the first game.  I think all these things are pre-planned pretty much well in advance so, for example, Leinster get 'asked' to not give Sexton too hard a journey in the run in and lo and behold, he leaves his last Provincial game early and everyone goes into shock.  Where's the shock?  It's tactics to help as much as possible present the players Joe wants for the first game to Get To that first game - ready for the battle.
There is not a lot then to be gained in holding onto players that can be allowed back to Provinces to keep them fresh in real competitive games.
Wales seem to play things more close to the chest.  Keeping players in International camp to keep up the intensity in training and I suppose to keep more mainstream players on their toes.... and to keep the opposition guessing.

I just think it's deeply unhelpful for the regions that so few players have been released for the derby games. Yes, a player might get injured, but we've seen players get injured in training anyway.

I was fine with it before because the Welsh regions seemed to have difficulty in conditioning their players, but that's certainly not the case this year. I think it would have been good for a lot of them to be playing rugby this weekend.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I think it's strategic with Ireland camp.  I'm not so certain Schmidt and his coaches are really waiting for the last day to pick the side he thinks should play the first game.  I think all these things are pre-planned pretty much well in advance so, for example, Leinster get 'asked' to not give Sexton too hard a journey in the run in and lo and behold, he leaves his last Provincial game early and everyone goes into shock.  Where's the shock?  It's tactics to help as much as possible present the players Joe wants for the first game to Get To that first game - ready for the battle.
There is not a lot then to be gained in holding onto players that can be allowed back to Provinces to keep them fresh in real competitive games.
Wales seem to play things more close to the chest.  Keeping players in International camp to keep up the intensity in training and I suppose to keep more mainstream players on their toes.... and to keep the opposition guessing.

I just think it's deeply unhelpful for the regions that so few players have been released for the derby games. Yes, a player might get injured, but we've seen players get injured in training anyway.

LP, just had a look and of the 15 players selected by TI from Ulster and Munster, 7 have been included in the squads for their match tomorrow and both Ian Henderson and Keith Earls are out for one reason or another, so that is 3/5 of players available, what a difference to what Howler does, he could release many of our squad and not in any way affect our 23 that will probably be selected for the matchday squad. Many would be drafted back to us, you would have a couple. I wonder what will happen the following week when we have Munster away, I don't know who you have, but I doubt it will make the slightest difference to Howler.

We've got Connacht at home, so we'll walk that regardless.

Ireland 25 or under. How are we fixed for the next 8 years.

Capped
Bealham, 25
Tracy, 25
Furlong, 24
Henderson, 24
Dillane, 23
VDF, 23
J Murphy, 25
Jackson, 24
Carbery, 21
L McGrath, 23
Marmion, 24
Henshaw, 23
Ringrose, 21
Gilroy, 25
Leavy, 22
O'Donoghue, 22
Olding, 23
McCloskey, 24
Moore, 25
O'Halloran, 25
Conan, 24


Some uncapped contenders - who have been playing regularly with their provinces.
R Scannell, 22*
N Scannell, 24*
Sweetnam, 23*
Stockdale, 20*
Lyttle, 19*
Porter, 20*
O'Loughlin, 22*
Kelleher, 22*
Heffernan, 25
Heenan, 24
Carey, 25
Blade, 22
Masterson, 23*
O'Brien II, 21*
D O'Shea, 23*
A O'Connor, 24
Molony, 22

* Are the players I think are more likely to get capped somewhere down the line.


Not too many second rows standing out at the moment but they usually take a little longer to mature. Same with hookers.


Looking at the squad leading up to the world cup, it has changed a good bit. The following - who have drifted away for whatever reasons - were capped in the 2014/15 season.
Ah You
Boss
Cave
Copeland
J Cronin
Diak
D'Arcy
Fitzgerald
D Foley
Henry
Felix Jones
D Kearney
Keatley
Madigan
M McCarthy
Moore
POC
TOD
Reddan
Ross
Ruddock
Dom Ryan
White
Strauss

Of those you'd feel only POC and Luke Fitz would add somethign to the squad.

Pot Hale wrote:Sexton is past it.   Gets injured too much.   And has lost all international respect - no one fears him any longer.    He needs to be nudged out this year with Jackson as the senior 10 and Carberry as his understudy for the RWC.

He has lost all international respect? Not sure I agree.

However, I dont think we lose much at all in quality when Jackson starts. Indeed Jackson started in our wins v Aus and SA this year. The only caveat is Jackson's tactical kicking is not good enough yet.

profitius wrote:Ireland 25 or under. How are we fixed for the next 8 years.

Capped
J Murphy, 25

I don't know why but I always thought he was older than that. Seems like he has been around a long time. Must have been quite young when he broke through.

John Ryan is 28 but has relatively few miles on the clock so he could be around for a good few years. Hopefully will keep improving as well. Be interesting to see if Chris Farrell can be in the mix in the next few years. He is only 23 I think. Also, JJ is only 25 but he has a long way to go to catch up to the promise he should a few years ago.

Bind up wrote:

profitius wrote:Ireland 25 or under. How are we fixed for the next 8 years.

Capped
J Murphy, 25

I don't know why but I always thought he was older than that. Seems like he has been around a long time. Must have been quite young when he broke through.

John Ryan is 28 but has relatively few miles on the clock so he could be around for a good few years. Hopefully will keep improving as well. Be interesting to see if Chris Farrell can be in the mix in the next few years. He is only 23 I think. Also, JJ is only 25 but he has a long way to go to catch up to the promise he should a few years ago.  

I thought O'Halloran was older. He seems to have been around for a while.


JJ has to start doing the business first. Theres talk of him coming back to Munster but I don't know if that would be a good move for all involved. Munster have Bill Johnston coming through now too.
Chris Farrell is a good shout. Bernard Jackman described him as one of the best centers in the top 14 though you could say Jackman is biased. He will be another option and we might even see him on the Japan tour.

Just looking at profitus' list slightly differently, as so often there are youth lists where its hard to see among capped players who have been capped against minnows versus are proven players against the top teams. With that in mind, I have added an * for every player who has either started against a top 7 team, or has multiple sub appearances against the same. It makes for pleasant viewing as there is great experience through the spine of the team and will hopefully put to rest ideas that Joe doesn't reward youth. Also note, as Adeolokun wasn't on original list, he only turned 26 last week.

Bealham, 25
Tracy, 25
Furlong, 24*
-
Henderson, 24*
Dillane, 23*
-
VDF, 23*
J Murphy, 25*
O'Donoghue, 22
-
Marmion, 24*
Jackson, 24*
-
Henshaw, 23*
Ringrose, 21*
-
Gilroy, 25*
Sweetnam
O'Halloran, 25

Just got tickets for the Ireland v England game. Yessssssssssssssssssssss. Sold out in 2 minutes.

Did you get them on Ticketmaster Guns? Cant find any mention of them there. Did France sell out too?

Golden wrote:Did you get them on Ticketmaster Guns? Cant find any mention of them there. Did France sell out too?

Its through the IRFU supporters club. It is on ticketmaster but through a private link via email on ticketmaster for club members only. They are all sold out for both games now.

You need to sign up as a supporter on irishrugby.com a few weeks before an end of Nov deadline. Sign up costs €50 but entitles you to have a chance to get tickets for six nations and Nov internationals. They usually sell out in minutes though so you have to be really quick.

Ah right cheers Guns hope you enjoy it!

Ireland v England could be an epic. Slam decider? England going for win record? Players fighting for Lions spots? St Patricks weekend

petethepete wrote:Ireland v England could be an epic. Slam decider? England going for win record? Players fighting for Lions spots? St Patricks weekend

Yeah it potentially has it all. Hopefully we are sill on for a slam at that point as that would be epic.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

petethepete wrote:Ireland v England could be an epic. Slam decider? England going for win record? Players fighting for Lions spots? St Patricks weekend

Yeah it potentially has it all. Hopefully we are sill on for a slam at that point as that would be epic.

I've never seen Ireland beat England (been to 3 of those matches) and wont have tickets for this one, but I think we have as good a chance as ever. Joe's winning % looks worst in terms of England. We need to beat them to put to rest who the current top NH team is. They are ahead now, but the fixtures are laid out for us with the best possible chance to win a slam (points difference will be difficult with the hardest teams last). Now we need to go out and win. Great to see Henshaw back this weekend, in a rejigged backline we need him fit and playing well in Feb.

Ireland have only lost once when I've been to an Ireland v England game and I've been to about 6 or 7. The won we lost was the one where Jonno sent the president onto the grass.

Glad you dont have tickets as Im hoping for another win.

We'll need more attacking teeth...sharp ones.  
I think Jones feels he's probably the most comfortable coach now in probably claiming (as he did on last encounter? ) that it won't take that much for his side to dismantle anything Joe Schmidt has planned.  He'll most probably have that attitude again this time round and the thing is - he'll believe it.

I think he's too comfortable about Schmidt.  He's won the psychological battle not because it's all a mental game that he's better at but because he truly can see Ireland's limitations.  I don't think we've found a more lethal linebreaking gameplan through the AIs that will overly concern him again.  Our pack intensity is what is grabbing us these games.

We will seriously need to try something newer (younger hopefuls) than the usual Kearney, Zebo, Trimble, Henshaw, Payne, Murray, Sexton line-up.  Joe must find something sharper to get Jones worrying.