Lions 2017

First topic message reminder :

Looking at the recent internationals and to beat allblack you need pace and vision so this is my team so far! 1.m.vunipola 2.hartley 3.furlong 4.itoje 5.kruis 6.faletau 7.stander 8. B.vunipola 9. Youngs 10.ford 11.watson 12.farrell 13.joseph 14.l.williams 15. Hogg 16.best 17.mcgrath 18.lee 19 .henderson 20.o'brien 21.murray 22.henshaw 23.north

last years runners up. top 14 winners IIRC. Cost about ten times what Glasgow cost to aseemble

TJ wrote:last years runners up. top 14 winners IIRC.  Cost about ten times what Glasgow cost to aseemble

And quite clearly on the way down now. It happens to all top club sides. They never stay at the top for long: Munster, Wasps, Leicester, Toulouse, Leinster, Toulon..... and now perhaps Racing? But one of the top teams in Europe would not be on zero points after 4 games. That's all I'm saying. 'Former' top team might be more appropriate.

Edit: just to add Glasgow are going in the opposite direction though which is nice to see.

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Finn Russell motm 2 weeks in a row against Racing metro, putting in an incredible attacking performance against one of the too teams in Europe.

He's certainly still a few injuries away from selection, but may be a dark horse given that we need good ball players to play in NZ!

He's a talent for sure, but Racing one of the top teams in Europe?! They've got no points in the group! I think they gave up on Europe after the first round when they realised they had no chance of progressing! Only Zebre have also got 0 points. Even the Scarlets have 4!!!

By that logic are you really saying that Racing are only as good as Zebre??

Racing had a full strength team out the last 2 weeks and are only out of it after tonight's result - they had everything to play for tonight.

They also rarely lose at home and Glasgow didit with Russell running the show. Racing have one of the biggest budgets and will be there or there abouts in the Top 14.

I'm.not saying Russell absolutely must travel but his current form surely must merit him at least being part of the conversation.

Griff wrote:

TJ wrote:last years runners up. top 14 winners IIRC.  Cost about ten times what Glasgow cost to aseemble

And quite clearly on the way down now. It happens to all top club sides. They never stay at the top for long: Munster, Wasps, Leicester, Toulouse, Leinster, Toulon..... and now perhaps Racing? But one of the top teams in Europe would not be on zero points after 4 games. That's all I'm saying. 'Former' top team might be more appropriate.

Edit: just to add Glasgow are going in the opposite direction though which is nice to see.

3 games

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:

TJ wrote:last years runners up. top 14 winners IIRC.  Cost about ten times what Glasgow cost to aseemble

And quite clearly on the way down now. It happens to all top club sides. They never stay at the top for long: Munster, Wasps, Leicester, Toulouse, Leinster, Toulon..... and now perhaps Racing? But one of the top teams in Europe would not be on zero points after 4 games. That's all I'm saying. 'Former' top team might be more appropriate.

Edit: just to add Glasgow are going in the opposite direction though which is nice to see.

3 games

3? It's round 4 tonight. Was that due to the Paris bombings? I thought they'd replayed already.

But seriously, I know it's different back in the HC days it was generally accepted that if you lost a couple of games (sometimes just 1!) then you were doomed!

Finn only come into consideration if two of Sexton, Farrell, Ford and Biggar get injured, out of those four Ford will probably miss out.

The Munster-Racing game was cancelled when Axel died.

In this group we expected all the teams to take wins off each other.  Away wins was what would win it we all thought. Most folk had either Munster or Racing as the favourites with Glasgow expected to be 3rd or 4th. Tigers being made to look pretty poor as well. Now a group where Tigers and Racing are being soundly beaten the teams doing the winning must hae something about them. shame it looks like missing a bonus pont today and a close defeat at home might cost Glasgow a place in the 1/4 finals

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Finn Russell motm 2 weeks in a row against Racing metro, putting in an incredible attacking performance against one of the too teams in Europe.

He's certainly still a few injuries away from selection, but may be a dark horse given that we need good ball players to play in NZ!

He's a talent for sure, but Racing one of the top teams in Europe?! They've got no points in the group! I think they gave up on Europe after the first round when they realised they had no chance of progressing! Only Zebre have also got 0 points. Even the Scarlets have 4!!!

By that logic are you really saying that Racing are only as good as Zebre??

Racing had a full strength team out the last 2 weeks and are only out of it after tonight's result - they had everything to play for tonight.

They also rarely lose at home and Glasgow didit with Russell running the show. Racing have one of the biggest budgets and will be there or there abouts in the Top 14.

I'm.not saying Russell absolutely must travel but his current form surely must merit him at least being part of the conversation.

No, just saying that you're only a top team when you're winning and still..... umm.... top. Biarritz were once a top team and then the slide started and look at them now. Once you start losing games and become 'dethroned' then you are no longer top. Racing being bottom of the group on zero points looks like a dethroning to me.

Anyway, wrong thread. Sorry Lions fans!

RDW_Scotland wrote:The Munster-Racing game was cancelled when Axel died.

Ah yes, sorry. Mind blank for a moment.

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Finn Russell motm 2 weeks in a row against Racing metro, putting in an incredible attacking performance against one of the too teams in Europe.

He's certainly still a few injuries away from selection, but may be a dark horse given that we need good ball players to play in NZ!

He's a talent for sure, but Racing one of the top teams in Europe?! They've got no points in the group! I think they gave up on Europe after the first round when they realised they had no chance of progressing! Only Zebre have also got 0 points. Even the Scarlets have 4!!!

Wow. How unbelievably disrespectful. To give up after one round. No team does that they always have a chance then.  They put out  a full strength team out tonight but were outplayed

Russel played againt one of these best 10s ever  Twice  and outplayed him

The reason they put are put out is cause Glasgow put them out

Riskysports wrote:

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Finn Russell motm 2 weeks in a row against Racing metro, putting in an incredible attacking performance against one of the too teams in Europe.

He's certainly still a few injuries away from selection, but may be a dark horse given that we need good ball players to play in NZ!

He's a talent for sure, but Racing one of the top teams in Europe?! They've got no points in the group! I think they gave up on Europe after the first round when they realised they had no chance of progressing! Only Zebre have also got 0 points. Even the Scarlets have 4!!!

Wow. How unbelievably disrespectful. To give up after one round. No team does that they always have a chance then.  They put out  a full strength team out tonight but were outplayed

Russel played againt one of these best 10s ever  Twice  and outplayed him

The reason they put are put out is cause Glasgow put them out

I personally think they gave up this week (not last week in round two as you suggest above). You lose two games and pick up no bonus points then it's goodnight in this comp. So racing might have felt that last nights game was a dead rubber. Kudos to Glasgow. You obviously outplayed them as the scoreboard suggests. I'm just not convinced that Racing gave as much as they would have if they were going into the game on 2 wins. It's not a new thing though. We've seen it from French sides in the cup before, giving up by the half way stage if they deem their chances to be slim.

Riskysports wrote:

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Finn Russell motm 2 weeks in a row against Racing metro, putting in an incredible attacking performance against one of the too teams in Europe.

He's certainly still a few injuries away from selection, but may be a dark horse given that we need good ball players to play in NZ!

He's a talent for sure, but Racing one of the top teams in Europe?! They've got no points in the group! I think they gave up on Europe after the first round when they realised they had no chance of progressing! Only Zebre have also got 0 points. Even the Scarlets have 4!!!

Wow. How unbelievably disrespectful. To give up after one round. No team does that they always have a chance then.  They put out  a full strength team out tonight but were outplayed

Russel played againt one of these best 10s ever  Twice  and outplayed him

The reason they put are put out is cause Glasgow put them out

Johan Goosens 'retirement' on twitter would have been a bit of a distraction for the team.

I'm not surprised that Racing are having a difficult year - basically they have had no preseason as in they have had this French legal mandatory rest period of a month after the Top14 final which meant that they only had 2 weeks preseason before the Top 14 started in August.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Finn only come into consideration if two of Sexton, Farrell, Ford and Biggar get injured, out of those four Ford will probably miss out.

I think that Finn is very much in the mix myself.

Sexton may not go as I feel he is being surpassed by Jackson for Ireland.
Farrell, never been sure of him as a ten but he seems to be doing a very good job at 12. He will go for that reason alone I feel.
Ford is a bit hit and miss but on form, is a very good 10.
Biggar is probably the most consistent so I think he will go.

Based on that, I certainly feel Russell has a very good chance to go and not because of injuries to others.

Sexton isn't being surpassed by Jackson, he is being held back by his own injuries and that is giving Jackson exposure. Johnny will probably go with the Lions but it could end his career as the All Blacks will target him mercilessly. What he really needs is to have a summer off to fully recover and get ready for the 17/18 season, rather than be chasing a short-sighted £80k personal cash injection (and the associated pain killing injections).

The thing that I like about Finn Russell playing well is that, as so often happens with the Lions, other commentators and fans who know nothing about a player are forced to challenge the 'conventional wisdom' about how a player slots neatly into whatever neat box that they have assigned to them. Clearly makes a lot of people uncomfortable.

Just to provide some context for this:

Q. Are Racing the current French champions?
Q. Are they last year's Champions Cup finalists?
Q. Have they clearly shown an interest in winning the tournament this year?
Q. Did they have a full team available to them for each game?
Q. Do they have Dan Carter playing at fly half?
Q. Was Carter fit?

Genuinely not a comment about any particular commentator or poster on these boards - but unfortunately for anyone who is trying to talk down Glasgow's achievement or the form of any of their players, the answer to all of these questions is 'yes'.

Edit: I am not saying that I would take Russell - assuming 2 x stand offs, I think that it would have to be Farrell and Sexton for me - but not to have the conversation about form players is a bit odd.

I still don't want and don't believe Russell should go on the lions tour. I don't want Gatland messing up another key scots player like he did with Hogg

However for those who don't rate Russell and didn't see the game here is a little vid showing his class in that game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUhgdtF0jbc&feature=youtu.be

George Carlin wrote:The thing that I like about Finn Russell playing well is that, as so often happens with the Lions, other commentators and fans who know nothing about a player are forced to challenge the 'conventional wisdom' about how a player slots neatly into whatever neat box that they have assigned to them. Clearly makes a lot of people uncomfortable.

Just to provide some context for this:

Q. Are Racing the current French champions?
Q. Are they last year's Champions Cup finalists?
Q. Have they clearly shown an interest in winning the tournament this year?
Q. Did they have a full team available to them for each game?
Q. Do they have Dan Carter playing at fly half?
Q. Was Carter fit?

Genuinely not a comment about any particular commentator or poster on these boards - but unfortunately for anyone who is trying to talk down Glasgow's achievement or the form of any of their players, the answer to all of these questions is 'yes'.

Edit: I am not saying that I would take Russell - assuming 2 x stand offs, I think that it would have to be Farrell and Sexton for me  - but not to have the conversation about form players is a bit odd.

Racing form since the start of the T14 season has been varying between mediocre and frankly bad. They have played 13 games so far and managed to get 7 wins but only 3 of them were against big teams (Toulon, Montpellier and Toulouse) and one was against a Montpelier team featuring TOL-Botica (!) as halfbacks during the AIs.
As Sin E hints they had no real preseason and were still resting on their laurels in September. Add to that the problems they had with Goosen and the PED allegations it is not looking very rosy for them... So to compare them to last year team (despite in fact having a better squad) is a bit insulting and am not talking down Glasgow/Russel performance who were great at times (and in the end they can only play what is in front of them).

The Great Aukster wrote:Sexton isn't being surpassed by Jackson, he is being held back by his own injuries and that is giving Jackson exposure. Johnny will probably go with the Lions but it could end his career as the All Blacks will target him mercilessly. What he really needs is to have a summer off to fully recover and get ready for the 17/18 season, rather than be chasing a short-sighted £80k personal cash injection (and the associated pain killing injections).

That's if he makes it that far, come the six nations the French will target him mercilessly and I wouldn't be surprised to see Lawes start the Ireland game in an attempt to get to him early either. It's not a tactic i'm fond of to be honest.

The Great Aukster wrote:Sexton isn't being surpassed by Jackson, he is being held back by his own injuries and that is giving Jackson exposure. Johnny will probably go with the Lions but it could end his career as the All Blacks will target him mercilessly. What he really needs is to have a summer off to fully recover and get ready for the 17/18 season, rather than be chasing a short-sighted £80k personal cash injection (and the associated pain killing injections).

I feel that Sexton is being surpassed by Jackson, nothing wrong with that... It happens, be it due to injuries, form or age. This is no slight on Sexton but I do feel that Jackson is very much the better 10 for Ireland right now and should be starting ahead of Sexton in the 6N.

Some one who might be in with a chance, or though he as not ( as far as i know) played at international level.
But might have a small chance of a place for the Lions, is Owen Williams the leicester 10.

One always likes to think that there will be bolters, Maj but in reality the competition for places is brutal and experience really counts on tours with this amount of pressure. The only realistic ones that I can come up with are Furlong, Van Der Flier and possibly Cipriani - the latter simply because Gatland absolutely loves him and cannot forget the fact that he was his first pro coach. Very, very bad reason to choose anyone.

whocares wrote:

George Carlin wrote:The thing that I like about Finn Russell playing well is that, as so often happens with the Lions, other commentators and fans who know nothing about a player are forced to challenge the 'conventional wisdom' about how a player slots neatly into whatever neat box that they have assigned to them. Clearly makes a lot of people uncomfortable.

Just to provide some context for this:

Q. Are Racing the current French champions?
Q. Are they last year's Champions Cup finalists?
Q. Have they clearly shown an interest in winning the tournament this year?
Q. Did they have a full team available to them for each game?
Q. Do they have Dan Carter playing at fly half?
Q. Was Carter fit?

Genuinely not a comment about any particular commentator or poster on these boards - but unfortunately for anyone who is trying to talk down Glasgow's achievement or the form of any of their players, the answer to all of these questions is 'yes'.

Edit: I am not saying that I would take Russell - assuming 2 x stand offs, I think that it would have to be Farrell and Sexton for me  - but not to have the conversation about form players is a bit odd.

Racing form since the start of the T14 season has been varying between mediocre and frankly bad. They have played 13 games so far and managed to get 7 wins but only 3 of them were against big teams (Toulon, Montpellier and Toulouse) and one was against a Montpelier team featuring TOL-Botica (!) as halfbacks during the AIs.
As Sin E hints they had no real preseason and were still resting on their laurels in September. Add to that the problems they had with Goosen and the PED allegations it is not looking very rosy for them... So to compare them to last year team (despite in fact having a better squad) is a bit insulting and am not talking down Glasgow/Russel performance who were great at times (and in the end they can only play what is in front of them).

Yes, I agree. Written much more diplomatically than me, whocares!

So, it seems that Gatland is not returning to Wales after Lions. Dai Young favourite to take over for him.

Sin é wrote:So, it seems that Gatland is not returning to Wales after Lions. Dai Young favourite to take over for him.

Is he hoping to take (CHARGE) of the All Blacks with immediate effect?

Sin é wrote:So, it seems that Gatland is not returning to Wales after Lions. Dai Young favourite to take over for him.

Who says so ?

Steve_rugby wrote:

Sin é wrote:So, it seems that Gatland is not returning to Wales after Lions. Dai Young favourite to take over for him.

Who says so ?

The Daily Mail has the story. Normally, the Mail would not be a paper I'd take much notice of, but Michael Corcoran from RTE tweeted it and he'd be a pretty sound commentator.

Michael Corcoran ‏@MichaelC_RTE 21h21 hours ago
Michael Corcoran Retweeted MailOnline Sport
No surprise here via @MailSport @JimKayes @sumostevensonMichael Corcoran added,
MailOnline Sport @MailSport
EXCLUSIVE: Gatland will quit Wales to return to New Zealand following next summer's Lions tour

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-4044484/Warren-Gatland-quit-Wales-return-New-Zealand-following-summer-s-British-Irish-Lions-tour.html …

majesticimperialman wrote:

Sin é wrote:So, it seems that Gatland is not returning to Wales after Lions. Dai Young favourite to take over for him.

Is he hoping to take (CHARGE) of the All Blacks with immediate effect?

I think he has to do his time first with a Super Rugby side.

Sin é wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Sin é wrote:So, it seems that Gatland is not returning to Wales after Lions. Dai Young favourite to take over for him.

Is he hoping to take (CHARGE) of the All Blacks with immediate effect?

I think he has to do his time first with a Super Rugby side.

Hansen walked straight into the National All Blacks set-up from Wales.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Sin é wrote:So, it seems that Gatland is not returning to Wales after Lions. Dai Young favourite to take over for him.

Is he hoping to take (CHARGE) of the All Blacks with immediate effect?

I think he has to do his time first with a Super Rugby side.

Hansen walked straight into the National All Blacks set-up from Wales.

I can't see Gatland as an assistant for the ABs.

I don't see him walking straight into the ABs at any level. But I'm saying it's possible to do so.

Anyway, maybe he is already anointed as the new heir secretly behind the scenes? Maybe he just takes time out for two years at home (sabbatical) and walks into Hansen's role after the next WC.

I always had a feeling Gatland would step away from Wales before the next WC. Of course nothing is confirmed but the rumour itself doesn't surprise me.

That's the least surprising news story ever.

He will do one or two years with Auckland Blues and then lobby heavily for the top job.
And so the world spins on its arse.

You cannot deny that he has paid his dues in terms of overseas experience mind you.

I think Gatland will get the job and rightly so. He has a far better CV going into it that Henry or Hansen had so I dont see why they wouldnt want him.

I'd be happy for him to go sooner rather than later. But can't see that he would be any good for the All Blacks. Then again, Hansen and Henry weren't that good for Wales yet still got a lot of AB success. Gatland has done much more with Wales than they did, so perhaps he'd do even better with their calibre of player?

There's no way given that the WRU have invested so much in developing Howler, that he won't be next in line still. It would be class if Dai was to get it, but I don't think he will. Would be great to have a whole new coaching set up.

RiscaGame wrote:There's no way given that the WRU have invested so much in developing Howler, that he won't be next in line still. It would be class if Dai was to get it, but I don't think he will. Would be great to have a whole new coaching set up.

I agree on both points here. Would love a completely new and fresh coaching team. And Dai Young seems to be a coach doing pretty well which playing some attractive rugby. But the WRU have been trying to develop from within, as you say, so Howley has to be in line, surely? It's a shame because we all know that the gameplan is stale but if we promote from within the current group of 'Gatlandballers' then we'll get much of the same going forward.

TJ wrote:I still don't want and don't believe Russell should go on the lions tour.  I don't want Gatland messing up another key scots player like he did with Hogg

However for those who don't rate Russell and didn't see the game here is a little vid showing his class in that game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUhgdtF0jbc&feature=youtu.be

Based on that, he pretty much broke the line when he chose, ridiculous amount of line breaks from first phase too, what a performance

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think Gatland will get the job and rightly so. He has a far better CV going into it that Henry or Hansen had so I dont see why they wouldnt want him.

I do not want him anywhere near the job. His tactics with Wales may at times get results, but it is not in NZ's interests to play warrenball. No thanks....we've got better coaches within NZ and around the world.

chewed_mintie wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I think Gatland will get the job and rightly so. He has a far better CV going into it that Henry or Hansen had so I dont see why they wouldnt want him.

I do not want him anywhere near the job.  His tactics with Wales may at times get results, but it is not in NZ's interests to play warrenball.  No thanks....we've got better coaches within NZ and around the world.

Henry and Hansen had different tactics when at Wales than with NZ though didnt they? I think Gatland's Wasps side played a different way too. I doubt he would get NZ to play the same way as Wales play.

Griff wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:There's no way given that the WRU have invested so much in developing Howler, that he won't be next in line still. It would be class if Dai was to get it, but I don't think he will. Would be great to have a whole new coaching set up.

I agree on both points here. Would love a completely new and fresh coaching team. And Dai Young seems to be a coach doing pretty well which playing some attractive rugby. But the WRU have been trying to develop from within, as you say, so Howley has to be in line, surely? It's a shame because we all know that the gameplan is stale but if we promote from within the current group of 'Gatlandballers' then we'll get much of the same going forward.

I think that discussing Gatland's replacement should have a separate thread of its own, but I am fascinated by the views that the next head coach should ideally be Welsh.

You have just had the most successful Wales coach probably ever and he wasn't Welsh. Does this affect the decision for his replacement?

Or is it just best man for the job with availability?

Is he protecting his reputation by getting out early?

Wales have not looked the side they were this or last season, a couple of disapointing years before the RWC would not do him any favours when looking at the AB job.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Is he protecting his reputation by getting out early?

Wales have not looked the side they were this or last season, a couple of disapointing years before the RWC would not do him any favours when looking at the AB job.

Not sure thats true. Henry and Hansen had fairly average careers before their appointments to the NZ role.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Is he protecting his reputation by getting out early?

Wales have not looked the side they were this or last season, a couple of disapointing years before the RWC would not do him any favours when looking at the AB job.

Not sure thats true. Henry and Hansen had fairly average careers before their appointments to the NZ role.

Henry was the most successful provincial coach in New Zealand not equalled by any else then or since in the World.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Is he protecting his reputation by getting out early?

Wales have not looked the side they were this or last season, a couple of disapointing years before the RWC would not do him any favours when looking at the AB job.

Not sure thats true. Henry and Hansen had fairly average careers before their appointments to the NZ role.

Henry was the most successful provincial coach in New Zealand not equalled by any else then or since in the World.

Sure provincial rugby is mickey mouse rugby.

He was also probably one of the least successful Wales coaches of all time. Ireland beat Wales 54-10 when he was in charge for example and he got the sack the next day. They were dire and finished in the bottom half of the table every year for four years.

When he returned to coach the Blues he wasnt even head coach but defensive coach before getting the NZ head coach position. Average CV at best.

back to lions talk please :-)

Some interesting teams of the week this week

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/12/19/champions-cup-team-weekend-makes-xv/brendon-oconnor-champions-cup-team-weekend-makes-xv/

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/18304216/british-irish-lions-team-champions-cup-week-4

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/team-of-the-week-champions-cup-14/

From a Scottish POV, good to see Hogg, Russell and J Gray heavily represented, also good to see Strauss getting some form and Zander getting some praise (Very outside bet to be sure :-0 )

And on Gray - those the think he is just a tackle machine and no good at line out, or carries

The second rower put in 12 tackles and effected a turnover, while also carrying the ball 12 times. Gray was his side's go-to man at the lineout, and also stole a Racing throw-in.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Is he protecting his reputation by getting out early?

Wales have not looked the side they were this or last season, a couple of disapointing years before the RWC would not do him any favours when looking at the AB job.

Not sure thats true. Henry and Hansen had fairly average careers before their appointments to the NZ role.

Henry was the most successful provincial coach in New Zealand not equalled by any else then or since in the World.

Sure provincial rugby is mickey mouse rugby.

Not sure what you know about NZ rugby but that Auckland side of the 90's would have beaten most international sides and did when they played touring teams. Hardly mickey mouse?

Can someone create a Wales Coach thread please, and move this to there

chewed_mintie wrote:
Not sure what you know about NZ rugby but that Auckland side of the 90's would have beaten most international sides and did when they played touring teams.  Hardly mickey mouse?

What touring teams did Auckland beat while Henry was in charge?

George Carlin wrote:

Griff wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:There's no way given that the WRU have invested so much in developing Howler, that he won't be next in line still. It would be class if Dai was to get it, but I don't think he will. Would be great to have a whole new coaching set up.

I agree on both points here. Would love a completely new and fresh coaching team. And Dai Young seems to be a coach doing pretty well which playing some attractive rugby. But the WRU have been trying to develop from within, as you say, so Howley has to be in line, surely? It's a shame because we all know that the gameplan is stale but if we promote from within the current group of 'Gatlandballers' then we'll get much of the same going forward.

I think that discussing Gatland's replacement should have a separate thread of its own, but I am fascinated by the views that the next head coach should ideally be Welsh.

You have just had the most successful Wales coach probably ever and he wasn't Welsh. Does this affect the decision for his replacement?

Or is it just best man for the job with availability?

I appreciate this is the wrong thread, but I'll answer anyway and leave it at that: at no point have I said that the next Wales coach should be Welsh. And neither did Risca as far as I can tell! I'm just saying that a) the person is likely to be be Welsh because his deputy is Welsh and it looks like he's being groomed to take over (I'm not particularly happy about that); and b) Dai Young seems to be doing well on merit. Looks like a decent coach and might be able to make the step up. Happy for it not to be though if an excellent candidate from around the globe shows interest. All of the teams in the NH that have shown improvement recently have done so under foreign coaches. In fact, all of the 4 that make up the Lions have done so (there, got it back on topic!). So I'd be more than happy to have a foreign coach. But you've got to find one that's interested. I just think that Dai Young could have the interest AND the ability. Perhaps more so than Howley.

Anyway, as you were men. Lions! Lions! Lions! etc