6N 2017: Wales v England, 11 February

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WALES v ENGLAND 
11 February 2017
KO:16:50 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [ITV, RTE, SC4, FR2, DMAX / BBC (H)]

Referee: Jerome Garces (France)
Touch judges: Pascal Gauzere (France) & Nick Briant (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

A. Head to Head

129 Played 129
57 Won 60
12 Drawn 12
60 Lost 57
1,673 Points 1,518

B. Recent Form 

29 May 2016: Twickenham, London
27 – 13 to England
2016 mid-year rugby union internationals

12 March 2016: Twickenham, London
25 – 21 to England
2016 Six Nations Championship

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London
25 – 28 to Wales
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London 
25 – 28 to Wales 
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A 

6 February 2015: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 
16 – 21 to England 
2015 Six Nations 

9 March 2014: Twickenham Stadium, London 
29 – 18 to England 
2014 Six Nations 

16 March 2013: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 
30 – 3 to Wales 
2013 Six Nations 

25 February 2012: Twickenham Stadium, London 
12 – 19 to Wales 
2012 Six Nations

13 August 2011: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 
19 – 9 to Wales 
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test 

6 August 2011: Twickenham, London 
23 – 19 to England 
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test 

C. Teams

WALES

15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-George North, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Scott Williams, 11-Liam Williams, 10-Dan Biggar, 9-Rhys Webb; 1-Rob Evans, 2-Ken Owens, 3-Tomas Francis, 4-Jake Ball, 5-Alun Wyn Jones, 6-Sam Warburton, 7-Justin Tipuric; 8-Ross Moriarty.

Replacements: 16-Scott Baldwin, 17-Nicky Smith, 18-Samson Lee, 19-Cory Hill, 20-Taulupe Faletau, 21-Gareth Davies, 22-Sam Davies, 23-Jamie Roberts.

ENGLAND

15-Mike Brown, 14-Jack Nowell, 13-Jonathan Joseph, 12-Owen Farrell, 11-Elliot Daly, 10-George Ford, 9-Ben Youngs; 1-Joe Marler, 2-Dylan Hartley (captain), 3-Dan Cole, 4-Joe Launchbury, 5-Courtney Lawes, 6-Maro Itoje, 7-Jack Clifford, 8-Nathan Hughes.

Replacements: 16-Jamie George, 17-Matt Mullan, 18-Kyle Sinckler, 19-Tom Wood, 20-James Haskell, 21-Danny Care, 22-Ben Te'o, 23-Jonny May.

Gwlad wrote:Not sure what Jordan Williams issues are but audacity is exactly what we need in the Welsh back line

Didn't he get a very bad injury before the last world cup?
I remember when Wales were struggling to have 15 fit players for the England pool game, and suggested they (Wales) call up Jordan Williams and someone said he had a long term injury.

Shifty wrote:

True Raven wrote:

Shifty wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Shifty wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

Shifty wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:We have a wing. Steff Evans ripping up trees for Scarlets. Only Wales wouldn't pick on form. We truly reap what we sow

I agree he's an option, but I believe the Welsh management think he's too short and lightweight for an England game.  
He's 5'10" and 12 and a half stone isn't he?

Quite right. Shane William was rubbish wasn't he?

I understand the argument, but lets be totally honest, as good as he was Shane Williams was an accident.  He got into the World Cup squad (2003) because he could play scrum, half, was thrown in as a lamb to the slaughter against New Zealand in the pool stages and the rest was history.  

In reality Wales have had quite a lot of cracking small players over the years similar in size to Shane Williams and never got a look in.  
Gareth Wyatt, Martin Giraud prior to Shane.
Jordan Wiliams, Lee Evans a few years ago.
Now we have Steffan Evans and Keelan Giles doing well now.

All are / were lightening quick, all can side step and all never / will probably never get the chance.

We have Christian Wade who must be as good with a side step as anyone. Sweet hands too. But how often can he get the ball, what happens when the jink doesn't come off and how does he handle 16 stone fijians (who can also step) coming the other way?

Its sad but you can see why its so tough for the little guys to get a break

Shane Williams and Jason Robinson were unique in that they had blinding speed, an unparalleled side step and could tackle well above their weight.

I hate to say this but such small, nippy players are 2 a penny in Welsh rugby.  The world changed in 1995 with the emergence of Jonah Lomu and Joe Ross.

Jordan Williams:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbKu534J6QU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWLkOF2DSAo

Keelan Giles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aelEXZEqpM

Matthew Morgan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twNLmd_SG9Y

Look at the young players in Wales who have about now, Matthew Morgan, Sam Davies.  A couple of years ago we were all raving about Steffan Jones of the Dragons, he's gone now.  

All too small to be trusted.

Robinson was truly exceptional, right up there with David Campese.

Jordan Williams and Matthew Morgan have never even set the pro12 alight or been consistent game to game.  They're both crap examples as they've never been top players for regional teams and Giles is in his first full season and just turned 19

You may as well chuck in Lee Williams if you're just going to pick random small people.

Liam Williams is hardly George Norths stature or Halfpenny isn't 6ft6 yet are regular internationals

The point I'm putting forward, is they are small, fast players, who can side step and entertain.  Welsh rugby went mad for them, and then they never got the chance due to their size.  That could so easily of been Shane Williams as well, if things had been slightly different.   Historically those players may of had a game vs Japan or Romania then were quietly dropped off the radar.

Shane Williams also had issues with tackling and running style in his career.  The size problem involved a lot of upper body work to increase his strength.  Though all questions were answered when he tackled that huge English wing.  Bannan or something, I forgot his name now.  

I dont understand though why steff evans height or weight rules him out of an opportunity playing alongside halfpenny and williams. Steff Evans may be smaller and lighter than cuthbert but has scored more tries than him this year and by all accounts is playing better rugby

We have to try these players at the top level. This crap that a small player can't perform in defense and so never gets the chance, seems to outweigh having a large idiot who does get the chance and never performs.

We need to be giving these guys 20 minutes v Japan, Italy etc and finding out how they respond.

Few pints into a very long evening ahead now, and I'm blooming loving it

I agree with both of you (Gwlad, True Raven), I have seen moments from young, small Welsh players, where they are dancing rings round people but sadly the modern game is risk adverse. To me the small nippy fly half went out in the late 80's when Lynagh and Grant Fox came in. the North followed this with players such as Thierry Lacroix, Neil Jenkins and Eric Elwood. then in the 1995 World Cup we had Lomu flattening Tony Underwood and small players were gradually eliminated from the game with professionalism.

You will always get the odd exception in any professional sport, but generally small people don't make it in a professional sport.

Gwlad wrote:We have to try these players at the top level. This crap that a small player can't perform in defense and so never gets the chance, seems to outweigh having a large idiot who does get the chance and never performs.

We need to be giving these guys 20 minutes v Japan, Italy etc and finding out how they respond.

Just look at Nowell.  I'd take ten of him over Cuthbert (but I hope wales keep picking him of course )

Except look at the size of most number 9s….small quick deft of hand. Look what lloyd Williams did to England on the wing and what Shane Williams did to Banahan. Size is not, as oft reported, everything. (ask your wives)

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Gwlad wrote:We have to try these players at the top level. This crap that a small player can't perform in defense and so never gets the chance, seems to outweigh having a large idiot who does get the chance and never performs.

We need to be giving these guys 20 minutes v Japan, Italy etc and finding out how they respond.

Just look at Nowell.  I'd take ten of him over Cuthbert (but I hope wales keep picking hi of course )

I bet…Nowell is pure class, such a strong runner….5ft and 15 stone 10. A lump but hardly massive.

exactly, he's not large at all. Typical Cornish boy really, almost wider than he is tall.

Four years ago Hartley lost his place on the lions tour because of (surprise, surprise) a suspension. Is he in danger four years later on losing a place on the tour?

I personally thought it was a toss up between him and Baldwin as to who was the worst hooker on show

So Sam Warburton was paying England a compliment when he said England can be compared to the All Blacks.

So thank you Sam, you gave England the driving force to beat Wales today.

trebellbobaggins wrote:exactly, he's not large at all.  Typical Cornish boy really, almost wider than he is tall.

Obviously, the Cornish lads should be playing for Wales not England... IF not have their own country.

Land of my fathers : Cornwall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojdZaPeJjAo
Land of my fathers Wales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE
Land of my fathers Brittany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYVl9eMW3hI

True Raven wrote:Four years ago Hartley lost his place on the lions tour because of (surprise, surprise) a suspension.  Is he in danger four years later on losing a place on the tour?  

I personally thought it was a toss up between him and Baldwin as to who was the worst hooker on show

Bring Back Hibbard

True Raven wrote:Four years ago Hartley lost his place on the lions tour because of (surprise, surprise) a suspension.  Is he in danger four years later on losing a place on the tour?  

I personally thought it was a toss up between him and Baldwin as to who was the worst hooker on show

Yep he is poor, and for sure George will oust him eventually.

Dont think AWJ has down his skipper credentials much good either.

Gwlad wrote:

True Raven wrote:Four years ago Hartley lost his place on the lions tour because of (surprise, surprise) a suspension.  Is he in danger four years later on losing a place on the tour?  

I personally thought it was a toss up between him and Baldwin as to who was the worst hooker on show

Yep he is poor, and for sure George will oust him eventually.

Dont think AWJ has down his skipper credentials much good either.

He had a good game but I do dislike the growing trend of captains mouthing of with the referee, it's not unique to him but I suppose it comes across as more whingy when it's an opposition player.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

True Raven wrote:Four years ago Hartley lost his place on the lions tour because of (surprise, surprise) a suspension.  Is he in danger four years later on losing a place on the tour?  

I personally thought it was a toss up between him and Baldwin as to who was the worst hooker on show

Yep he is poor, and for sure George will oust him eventually.

Dont think AWJ has down his skipper credentials much good either.

He had a good game but I do dislike the growing trend of captains mouthing of with the referee, it's not unique to him but I suppose it comes across as more whingy when it's an opposition player.

Hartley or AWJ?

Gwlad wrote:

True Raven wrote:Four years ago Hartley lost his place on the lions tour because of (surprise, surprise) a suspension.  Is he in danger four years later on losing a place on the tour?  

I personally thought it was a toss up between him and Baldwin as to who was the worst hooker on show

Bring Back Hibbard

No where near the player he once was. Owens had a very good game.

We lost by one silly miss kick and should have finished off a number of good opportunities.

England were a good team, they played efficient rugby and took advantage of a silly mistake when the better side had the game in the bag.

I am not bothered by the result, I though wales played well. I saw the performance as progress, I said at halftime I am happy to see they have played well and we are moving forward.

Well done England on the result. Great game. Jon Davies needs to take more care with his clearance kicks.

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:exactly, he's not large at all.  Typical Cornish boy really, almost wider than he is tall.

Obviously, the Cornish lads should be playing for Wales not England... IF not have their own country.

Land of my fathers : Cornwall  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojdZaPeJjAo
Land of my fathers Wales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE
Land of my fathers Brittany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYVl9eMW3hI

In an ideal world indeed but we've played all rugby in the RFU for all my life and long before it so I have to support where my compatriots play.

Gwlad wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

True Raven wrote:Four years ago Hartley lost his place on the lions tour because of (surprise, surprise) a suspension.  Is he in danger four years later on losing a place on the tour?  

I personally thought it was a toss up between him and Baldwin as to who was the worst hooker on show

Yep he is poor, and for sure George will oust him eventually.

Dont think AWJ has down his skipper credentials much good either.

He had a good game but I do dislike the growing trend of captains mouthing of with the referee, it's not unique to him but I suppose it comes across as more whingy when it's an opposition player.

Hartley or AWJ?

AWJ.

Some bizarre player ratings on the Telegraph site. Bar Launchbury, I don't think a single England player scores higher than his Welsh counterpart. Anyone would think they'd list the game rather than won it.

Telegraph does site on the fence to be fair.

The daily mail says we thrashed the foreigners, but they are going to put the price up for us to enter their Country!

Poorfour wrote:Some bizarre player ratings on the Telegraph site. Bar Launchbury, I don't think a single England player scores higher than his Welsh counterpart. Anyone would think they'd list the game rather than won it.

Probably because England won it by returning a rather out of character crap kick not by out playing the other team. Its called getting away with it.

Remember when wales beat England at twickenham in the rugby World Cup, we were the weaker side in most facets, but we took a great opportunity and won. The player ratings were probably better for most England players than Welsh players that day.

Sometimes you get lucky

maestegmafia wrote:

Poorfour wrote:Some bizarre player ratings on the Telegraph site. Bar Launchbury, I don't think a single England player scores higher than his Welsh counterpart. Anyone would think they'd list the game rather than won it.

Probably because England won it by returning a rather out of character crap kick not by out playing the other team. Its called getting away with it.

Remember when wales beat England at twickenham in the rugby World Cup, we were the weaker side in most facets, but we took a great opportunity and won. The player ratings were probably better for most England players than Welsh players that day.

Sometimes you get lucky

"No such thing as luck" - Obi wan Kenobi.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:exactly, he's not large at all.  Typical Cornish boy really, almost wider than he is tall.

Obviously, the Cornish lads should be playing for Wales not England... IF not have their own country.

Land of my fathers : Cornwall  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojdZaPeJjAo
Land of my fathers Wales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE
Land of my fathers Brittany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYVl9eMW3hI

In an ideal world indeed but we've played all rugby in the RFU for all my life and long before it so I have to support where my compatriots play.

We could just invade Bristol, and make the country whole again!
We are going to build a wall... and England are going to pay for it!

It didn't feel like luck from where I was sitting. England were putting pressure on the Welsh line and there's a good chance they would have forced a penalty. Given they were two points behind, that would have been enough.

The poor clearance was a bit of a gift, but it's not like it was a dropped ball leading to an 80m breakaway try against the run of play.

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:exactly, he's not large at all.  Typical Cornish boy really, almost wider than he is tall.

Obviously, the Cornish lads should be playing for Wales not England... IF not have their own country.

Land of my fathers : Cornwall  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojdZaPeJjAo
Land of my fathers Wales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE
Land of my fathers Brittany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYVl9eMW3hI

In an ideal world indeed but we've played all rugby in the RFU for all my life and long before it so I have to support where my compatriots play.

We could just invade Bristol, and make the country whole again!
We are going to build a wall... and England are going to pay for it!  

I like your thinking.  Our name does mean the western welsh after all.

My son is hopefully off to uni there in September though so can we make it a peaceful invasion please

Maetegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

True Raven wrote
Four years ago Hartley lost his place on the lions tour because of (surprise, surprise) a suspension.  Is he in danger four years later on losing a place on the tour?  

I personally thought it was a toss up between him and Baldwin as to who was the worst hooker on show

Bring Back Hibbard

No where near the player he once was. Owens had a very good game.

We lost by one silly miss kick and should have finished off a number of good opportunities.

England were a good team, they played efficient rugby and took advantage of a silly mistake when the better side had the game in the bag.

I am not bothered by the result, I though wales played well. I saw the performance as progress, I said at halftime I am happy to see they have played well and we are moving forward.

Well done England on the result. Great game. Jon Davies needs to take more care with his clearance kicks.

England fully deserved the win today- were more consistent and took the points when presented with the opportunity. Congratulations England- well played.

What cost us the game, and frustrated me as a Welsh fan, were the decision to take Moriarty off for Faletau, and Jon Davies not finding touch with his clearance kick... It did seem to be a tactic to keep the ball in play as much as we could, but when you're under that much pressure on your own try line, surely you just have to get the ball off the park and regroup...?

I really don't understand why Howley took Moriarty off... He was having a superb game! Easily one of our stand out players up to that point. It seems as though the decision had been made before kick off to sub Faletau on for him at around that time, but even if that decision has been made before the game, if he's playing as well as he was, then surely as a coach you have to change your mind and leave him on the pitch unless he picks up an injury or tires badly...? Plus Faletau has been out with injury for a while, so he was going to be lacking the match fitness/ game awareness needed to make a big impact from the bench...

For all we keep complaining about the players not playing what's in front of them- they certainly do seem to have started doing that this tournament- which is pleasing. Now if only our coaches could start doing that too...

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Shifty wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:exactly, he's not large at all.  Typical Cornish boy really, almost wider than he is tall.

Obviously, the Cornish lads should be playing for Wales not England... IF not have their own country.

Land of my fathers : Cornwall  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojdZaPeJjAo
Land of my fathers Wales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE
Land of my fathers Brittany: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYVl9eMW3hI

In an ideal world indeed but we've played all rugby in the RFU for all my life and long before it so I have to support where my compatriots play.

We could just invade Bristol, and make the country whole again!
We are going to build a wall... and England are going to pay for it!  

I like your thinking.  Our name does mean the western welsh after all.

And the new country called Walewall are not going to play England unless they let us win now and again because their beating us too often at the moment...

I really don't like this Eddie Jones bloke:
1) he has a Welsh surname
2) he's a git
3) he's making England not be totally rubbish.. which isn't on

Cant they have Martin Johnson, or that bloke who was coach during the world cup? I really liked England in those days...

Time to ban you all from traveling into our green and pleasant land.

TightHEAD wrote:Time to ban you all from traveling into our green and pleasant land.

Psst we said invade Bristol, not Bath, surely a wall between you and Bristol would be a good thing from your point of view...

You should be on our side.

Shifty wrote:

And the new country called Walewall are not going to play England unless they let us win now and again because their beating us too often at the moment...

I really don't like this Eddie Jones bloke:
1) he has a Welsh surname
2) he's a git
3) he's making England not be totally rubbish.. which isn't on

Cant they have Martin Johnson, or that bloke who was coach during the world cup?  I really liked England in those days...

Well Nowell is ready to do his bit for Walewall I am told.

of course walewall does mean strangersstrangers (the wall being Wallis, like Wales)... does seem a bit of an odd name.  can we come up with something that more an amalgam....  cornwales?

TightHEAD wrote:Time to ban you all from traveling into our green and pleasant land.

I can't bleddy get anywhere without doing so though. gonna have to start sailing around the place again.

What a game, that's the best I've seen from Wales for some time.
Surprised at some of the Launchbury comments, I thought he had an excellent game and made up for Robshaw not being there to plug the gaps. Lawes was also outstanding, I'm not a fan but he really impressed today. The back row were outplayed but let's keep it in perspective, very inexperienced and up against top class opposition, you'd have been forgiven for expecting them to have been a penalty machine prior to the start of the game. I thought Marler had an excellent first half while Cole and Hartley were a bit meh away from scrums. People seem to expect Hughes to be pulling up trees yet he's only a baby by international standards, give it time.

Shifty wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Time to ban you all from traveling into our green and pleasant land.

Psst we said invade Bristol, not Bath, surely a wall between you and Bristol would be a good thing from your point of view...

You should be on our side.  

You speak the truth. we're only talking about taking our own lands back, not the strangely posh blokes across the wall in Wiltshire.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Well Nowell is ready to do his bit for Walewall I am told.

of course walewall does mean strangersstrangers (the wall being Wallis, like Wales)... does seem a bit of an odd name.  can we come up with something that more an amalgam....  cornwales?

We could just go the whole hog, deport the Anglo Saxons back to Germany, and go back to the Tribal ways. Strip naked, paint ourselves blue, get drunk, and fight tribally (normal night out in the valleys), so Cornwall the Dumnonii tribe, against Glamorgan the Silures tribe.

Hoonercat wrote:What a game, that's the best I've seen from Wales for some time.
Surprised at some of the Launchbury comments, I thought he had an excellent game and made up for Robshaw not being there to plug the gaps. Lawes was also outstanding, I'm not a fan but he really impressed today. The back row were outplayed but let's keep it in perspective, very inexperienced and up against top class opposition, you'd have been forgiven for expecting them to have been a penalty machine prior to the start of the game. I thought Marler had an excellent first half while Cole and Hartley were a bit meh away from scrums. People seem to expect Hughes to be pulling up trees yet he's only a baby by international standards, give it time.

Bloody hell....
A post that on topic!

I like the cut of your jib time to party like it's 99.

TightHEAD wrote:Telegraph does site on the fence to be fair.

The daily mail says we thrashed the foreigners, but they are going to put the price up for us to enter their Country!

Imagine what they'd be saying if Wales voted Remain like Scotland...

Was our loss today the result of the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or the coaching of the Welsh team by the rugby calamity that is the Welsh coaching team? In answering this question consider the following:
-the mindless Welsh substitutions;
-the total inability to select a team based on form not reputation;
-tactical and box kicking which invites high quality opposition back 3s to run the ball back,and which increasingly results not just in penalties but tries;
-achingly slow service from the Welsh 9 even when our forwards win quick and/or turnover ball;
-loss of key lineouts;
-the scarcity of Welsh 3/4 play even faintly reminiscent of great Welsh 3/4 play.

Answers on a postcard to the WRU Management Board.

So all the folks who thought Launchbury was over weight/poor and Hughes bad against France want to confirm their view that they should be dropped and ano picked?

I would say to Eddie - please don't pick Lawes at blindside flanker again - we must have someone better.

exile jack wrote:Was our loss today the result of the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or the coaching of the Welsh team by the rugby calamity that is the Welsh coaching team? In answering this question consider the following:
-the mindless Welsh substitutions;
-the total inability to select a team based on form not reputation;
-tactical and box kicking which invites high quality opposition back 3s to run the ball back,and which increasingly results not just in penalties but tries;
-achingly slow service from the Welsh 9 even when our forwards win quick and/or turnover ball;
-loss of key lineouts;
-the scarcity of Welsh 3/4 play even faintly reminiscent of great Welsh 3/4 play.

Answers on a postcard to the WRU Management Board.

We could just suck it up and say England have a fantastic coach, and an awesome squad, with incredible depth, and whilst on balance Wales were probably better on the day, you don't win all these games in a row unless your a magnificent team.

I wouldn't say that of course, I would tell them to get back over the bridge and their not allowed to come over again unless they let us win next time. With a polite final reminder to please not beat us by too many points at Twickenham next time.

One thing I was so frustrated with was our body angles whist going into contact, far too upright every time. Get lower boys.

Great game. Edge of the seat. Fierce courage from both sides - those hits that stopped rampaging players in their tracks were plentiful and impressive.

But that dumb kick.... to England, that were always going to run it back with interest - suicide.

Jonathan Daveis will have nightmares about that for years to come. Both of them!

exile jack wrote:Was our loss today the result of the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or the coaching of the Welsh team by the rugby calamity that is the Welsh coaching team? In answering this question consider the following:
-the mindless Welsh substitutions;
-the total inability to select a team based on form not reputation;
-tactical and box kicking which invites high quality opposition back 3s to run the ball back,and which increasingly results not just in penalties but tries;
-achingly slow service from the Welsh 9 even when our forwards win quick and/or turnover ball;
-loss of key lineouts;
-the scarcity of Welsh 3/4 play even faintly reminiscent of great Welsh 3/4 play.

Answers on a postcard to the WRU Management Board.

Cuthbert

Both sides played pretty well. The fact Wales lead most of the game and the nature of a late try winning for England means a lot of people will feel it was a case of Wales losing more than England winning. I dont really agree. I though England had a better set piece, outstanding defence and were marginally more threatning with the ball. They made very few errors. I dont think they lost any of their own ball at scrum or lineout. They coughed up very few penalties even when under pressure. And they were pretty composed and clinical taking their opportunities. With 20 minutes to go I though England were finishing by far the stronger and I felt they were going to win. They had more impact from their bench. They left it late and it wasnt flashy. But overall I thought they just about deserved it.

Can I just say what a wonderful stadium the Millenium Pricipality stadium is with the roof open, less handling errors too.

Gwlad wrote:

exile jack wrote:Was our loss today the result of the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or the coaching of the Welsh team by the rugby calamity that is the Welsh coaching team? In answering this question consider the following:
-the mindless Welsh substitutions;
-the total inability to select a team based on form not reputation;
-tactical and box kicking which invites high quality opposition back 3s to run the ball back,and which increasingly results not just in penalties but tries;
-achingly slow service from the Welsh 9 even when our forwards win quick and/or turnover ball;
-loss of key lineouts;
-the scarcity of Welsh 3/4 play even faintly reminiscent of great Welsh 3/4 play.

Answers on a postcard to the WRU Management Board.

Cuthbert

I can't say what's going on in Cuthbert's head and his knock on in the English 22 and then the graphical illustration of his lack of defensive nous following the inept kick of JD2 to the English back 3 weren't great but Wales could, should and would have been several points clear of England by the 76 minute mark if they were a properly coached side. They aren't.Sad but true.

The goats and daffodils were nice. Its a shame the welsh centre can't kick but England would still have won. They were applying the blowtorch in the final quarter which was just too hot for that welsh side today.

Fantastic game. Really impressive win from England given they had about the most inexperienced backrow you will ever see in a full Test and overcame what appears to have by been the best performance from Welsh side for years.

I thought the locks were excellent, and Elliot Daly is a very high class back. On the other hand JJ needs to stop throwing flashy mis-passes, and in general England just need to put the ball through the hands when they have numbers.

I wonder if the Ireland - England game can live up to that?

Good to see Wales looking like contenders again. Apart from Italy the 6 Nations looks in great shape.