Ireland Summer tour.

First topic message reminder :

So now we know who's off with the Lions, who you like to see tour with Ireland? I was hoping that some of the regular wingers would have went as I'd like to see Byrne and the young Munster winger get a crack this summer. Fingers crossed they still will. My starting XV this summer would be:
Healy, Cronin, Ryan, O'Connor, Ryan, Conan, Van der Flier, Heaslip, Marmion, Jackson, Sweetnam (sp), Olding, Ringrose, Byrne, O'Halloran.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:If only Rodders. I remember a time not that long ago when you were really depressed about the state of Irish rugby. Not really the case any more.

Just counting down the days to 2019 guns

#JapanHereWeCome #Ireland2023BackToBackChamps

Are you going to go? Japan 2019 will be fantastic. I love Japan it has everything from incredible nature, history, culture, incredible infrastructure etc. It is a great place to visit.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Are you going to go? Japan 2019 will be fantastic. I love Japan it has everything from incredible nature, history, culture, incredible infrastructure etc. It is a great place to visit.

I'm aiming too - spent 6 weeks there for work at the end of 2015, loved the place.

Yeah its cool isnt it. Where did you go? Have you been to Hokkaido?

Irelands first match of the 6N next year is in Paris. Very tough start. Last game away to England.

rodders wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Irony, eh?

I'm sure you will lead the whinge brigade as soon as the squad is announced.

No way I'm in charge.

I'm behind you Rods!

Today will be fun. Jimmy Joe Micheal Sean Billy Finbar didnt get into the squad. bohohohoooo.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Yeah its cool isnt it. Where did you go? Have you been to Hokkaido?

I got a 2 days up in Hokkaido but they were for work, so all I saw were a lot of supermarket shelves (we were selling software for optimising how you decide what to stock where)

Mainly Tokyo, spent some weekend time in Kyoto and Osaka - sadly managed to miss my flight to Hiroshima on my final weekend - work drinks went past 3am, and I failed to wake up for the taxi to the airport

Hiroshima isnt great. The peace park there is quite good and there is an amazing island called Miyajima nearby but the rest is quite dull as it is a predominantly just a modern city unlike Kyoto and Tokyo that both have very old cultural elements. The local delicacy in Hiroshima okonomiyaki is quite good though.

Would love to go to Hokkaido and see the nature there. Kyoto was magnificent too.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Hiroshima isnt great. The peace park there is quite good and there is an amazing island called Miyajima nearby but the rest is quite dull as it is a predominantly just a modern city unlike Kyoto and Tokyo that both have very old cultural elements. The local delicacy in Hiroshima okonomiyaki is quite good though.

Would love to go to Hokkaido and see the nature there. Kyoto was magnificent too.

There was a pretty good okonomiyaki place near my apartment in Tokyo - went there a few times (joys of being on expenses!)

My plan for Hiroshoma was to spend the Saturday afternoon & sunset on Miyajima and then see the Peace Park the Sunday morning before heading back to Tokyo (as I was due to fly to NZ the Monday morning) - c'est la vie.

I saw NTT Docomo (with 5 Springboks - Pollard, Etzebeth, Brussow, Kriel and one other I've forgotten - and Folau was out injured) get hammered by Toyota Verblitz in Osaka, followed by Kubota Spears losing to Kintetsu Liners, Japanese rugby is great to watch live

Decent team but very, very light at second row. I'm assuming that Ruddock will also be second row cover?

Squad named. Ive mixed feelings. I like the squad but I was looking forward to being outraged. :o


Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 67 caps
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 6 caps
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 17 caps
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)*
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 6 caps

James Tracy (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Dave Heffernan (Connacht/Buccaneers)*
Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 4 caps

James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)*
Kieran Treadwell (Ballymena/Ulster)*
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 47 caps

Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 1 cap
Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 12 caps
Jack O'Donoghue (UL Bohemians/Munster) 1 cap
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 13 caps
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps

John Cooney (Connacht)*
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 1 cap
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 13 caps

Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 3 caps
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) 23 caps

Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster) 9 caps
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 8 caps
Rory Scannell (Dolphin/Munster)*

Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 1 cap
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 59 caps
Tiernan O'Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3 caps
Rory O'Loughlin (Old Belvedere/Leinster)*
Jacob Stockdale (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)*
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 33 caps

Only 3 locks prof, think you should be outraged at that

I'm guessing Ruddock is back up there

I think it is a fairly good team, but I think O'Loughlin is fortunate to be there over Byrne or Sweetnam. He's really a 13 who can cover wing anyway. Very pleased that Schmidt hasn't selected some of the players we feared he might. Good job, Joe.
 
Sean O'Brien of Connacht would have been a better selection than O'Donnell as well to cover the second row.

Ross Molony will probably feel pretty crap today.

Hopefully the squads put a rocket up McCloskeys backside too

marty2086 wrote:Only 3 locks prof, think you should be outraged at that  

I'm guessing Ruddock is back up there

Not really. Toner is the experience and Ryan and Treadwell are the 2 best prospects coming through. Yeah Ruddock will probably be backup. Japan are the shortest team Ireland will play so that also might have been a factor.

Interesting too to see who was overlooked.

It seems Schmidt may be doing the very thing I was worrying about the other day - he is acknowledging that many of these players will be needed for the RWC19 and planning accordingly. Which is great to see.

Ireland have a very good platform - I'm hoping we progress like the Sarries and add to the platform with some very dangerous attacking play.

Exciting squad. Any players ruled out with injury? I'm wondering about Adam Byrne?

Oh the outrage, Jimmy big balls from down the road wasnt picked. What will Fr Brennan think?

Rory if that is the case then surely another lock and fly half wouldn't have been too much of a stretch, unless Madigan some how ends up back in Ireland after next season we'll likely only have three tried and tested options at 10 and 6 at lock, a few injuries here or there and things could look bare

I think John Cooney will cover 10 in case of injury. Our lock situation has been fragile for a few years now, but if Treadwell, Henderson, Ryan and Dillane kick on it will look a lot better by 2019.

Edit: Don't forget Blyendaal becomes qualified this year.

That means shoehorning him to a squad though and losing a possibly superior 9 because we are short at 10

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Oh the outrage, Jimmy big balls from down the road wasnt picked. What will Fr Brennan think?

Go home, Guns. No need to bring more whinging into the thread. People seem to be reasonably happy, but there is a thing called balance which allows one to both praise and critique the performance of the coach.

For example, overall the squad looks good. However, there are some weaknesses. A possible squad I posted last week was criticised for only having 3 locks and a flanker who covers lock, but Schmidt has only went with 3. Sean O'Brien would have been a good selection if he was only picking three locks and I would have him there over TOD. O'Loughlin is quite lucky to be there over Byrne and Sweetnam as well.

Aside from that, I'm happy. Good team, Joe. 

but I cant help thinking that if only Jimmy was picked we would be guaranteed to get to the semis in the next world cup. Why is Schmidt such a meanie?

marty2086 wrote:Rory if that is the case then surely another lock and fly half wouldn't have been too much of a stretch, unless Madigan some how ends up back in Ireland after next season we'll likely only have three tried and tested options at 10 and 6 at lock, a few injuries here or there and things could look bare

I don't think another 10 is needed on this tour at least. There are three options, as Scannell can also play at 10 (and has done so for the Ireland A team if I'm not mistaken). Ross Byrne is another player who may get game time between now and the next World Cup.

As for second row, as I said above I would absolutely have taken Sean O'Brien. He plays lock and 6, and despite people saying he is too small he is just a few centimetres smaller than Brad Thorn. Plus he has had a great year in a poor team, extremely physical player with a lot of aggression. Will certainly feature for Ireland at some point if he stays injury free. Not sure why Molony was left at home either.

A very well balanced mix of experience and youth. I am very happy about this squad selection, would have loved to see Sweetnam in but there is always time for him in the future.

Japan are no walkovers but I feel this squad will be easily too much for them.

I think the squad will likely see a few changes before they head off. Injuries to any of the Lions may see Ringrose called up for example, plus Leinster and Munster have one or potentially two big games ahead of them.

There probably will be another player in the second row added. From the IRFU website:

"An additional player will be added to the squad following next weekend's provincial fixtures."

Very strong team. Some players are unlucky to miss out but the likes of Ringrose, Zebo and Healy could be called up by Gatland, which would free up some space for the likes of Sweetnam, Byrne, Buckley etc. It's how they play which will be the most interesting.

How is this for an XV that wasn't picked (minus injuries), some strength in depth we are developing

1. Buckley
2. Strauss
3. Bent
4. Roux
5. Maloney
6. SOB II
7. Reidy
8. Muldoon
9. Williams
10. Keatley
11. Byrne
12. McCloskey
13. Cave
14. Sweetnam
15. Gilroy

Rory,

Is Gilroy injured?

Not to my knowledge. He just isn't liked by Schmidt (remember after the Italy game?).

So what players are currently injured that may have toured? Also has a captain been named? Feel sorry for Byrne. I personally would have him starting.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Rory if that is the case then surely another lock and fly half wouldn't have been too much of a stretch, unless Madigan some how ends up back in Ireland after next season we'll likely only have three tried and tested options at 10 and 6 at lock, a few injuries here or there and things could look bare

I don't think another 10 is needed on this tour at least. There are three options, as Scannell can also play at 10 (and has done so for the Ireland A team if I'm not mistaken). Ross Byrne is another player who may get game time between now and the next World Cup.

As for second row, as I said above I would absolutely have taken Sean O'Brien. He plays lock and 6, and despite people saying he is too small he is just a few centimetres smaller than Brad Thorn. Plus he has had a great year in a poor team, extremely physical player with a lot of aggression. Will certainly feature for Ireland at some point if he stays injury free. Not sure why Molony was left at home either.

I always forget Scannell can cover 10 but it's not this tour that's the problem, its the autumn, the 6Ns, next summer then the RWC. Where does the opportunity arise for guys to get their opportunity? If they can propel themselves up the pecking order that's great but if they don't guys could come in cold.

I know young guys spend time at Carton House etc but I wouldn't mind seeing some go on tour like the ABs do at times as apprentices

Maine man wrote:So what players are currently injured that may have toured? Also has a captain been named? Feel sorry for Byrne. I personally would have him starting.

The extra player will probably be Heaslip who'll be captain

I highly doubt it will be Heaslip given there are already 6 players selected in the back row (two eights) and the lack of cover in the second row. It might be a choice between Molony and Holland. Molony hasn't really excelled this year.

I'm trying to give you something to be outraged at here Rory

Darren Sweetnam missed out. The possible additional player could be between Byrne and Sweetnam.

No Jamie Heaslip or Sean Cronin - presumably because of injury.

It looks like Cian Healy isn't on standby for the Lions as they are only bringing 5 props with Bealham presumably covering both sides.

It looks like Zebo is on standby for the Lions with TOH & Conway included.

No Tommy Bowe?

marty2086 wrote:I'm trying to give you something to be outraged at here Rory

I'm sorry to disappoint. 

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Not to my knowledge. He just isn't liked by Schmidt (remember after the Italy game?).

Its a shame because I think Gilroy is a proper poacher.

eirebilly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Not to my knowledge. He just isn't liked by Schmidt (remember after the Italy game?).

Its a shame because I think Gilroy is a proper poacher.

That explains it, he probably stole Joe's wallet.

No that was Keith Earls.

eirebilly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Not to my knowledge. He just isn't liked by Schmidt (remember after the Italy game?).

Its a shame because I think Gilroy is a proper poacher.

He lacks subtlety in his attacking game these days, his support play isn't there like a top class winger needs and he doesn't come inside and attack space in field like he used to in his younger days, he seems to stay fairly wide

Hopefully Ulsters new coaching team can add that back into his game

The additional player will be Tadgh Beirne possibly. Maybe holding off on naming him so it doesn't distract from semifinals.

Can't see him getting picked when he's at Scarlets Pot especially as its not an exceptional circumstance

Would much prefer him to come to Ulster and earn his spot there

marty2086 wrote:Can't see him getting picked when he's at Scarlets Pot especially as its not an exceptional circumstance

Would much prefer him to come to Ulster and earn his spot there

. Who knows? Maybe he will....

Someone know something the rest of us don't?

http://www.the42.ie/ultan-dillane-connacht-ireland-lock-3392354-May2017/

If he is fit for the weekend then he is a cert for the tour.

Olding missing because of injury - mind you behind Marshall anyway
Gilroy is fit just not picked, same for McCloskey - mind you McCloskey doesn't deserve it, and neither does Herring
Reidy has played at least as well as some backrowers selected - unlucky

I think Dillane is the extra player as Rory says
O'Loughlin over Sweetnam I just don't understand but overall pleased

Lets be honest 4 players from Ulster is a pathetic contribution