Ireland Summer tour.

First topic message reminder :

So now we know who's off with the Lions, who you like to see tour with Ireland? I was hoping that some of the regular wingers would have went as I'd like to see Byrne and the young Munster winger get a crack this summer. Fingers crossed they still will. My starting XV this summer would be:
Healy, Cronin, Ryan, O'Connor, Ryan, Conan, Van der Flier, Heaslip, Marmion, Jackson, Sweetnam (sp), Olding, Ringrose, Byrne, O'Halloran.

The scrum starting to fall apart

Flip me - surely that's too early to bring on Porter?

Weak defending from Stockdale. Structure falling apart now.

Must be the heat - Joe suffering that is

Lol I wonder what it is in Ireland then.

N Scannell missed a couple but the H eff needs to settle down

Earls must be the Motm by now?

Scannell was fine - it's Toner and Roux who have also been poor.

Toner disappointing, Roux not great but better than I expected.

Carbery needs to sort himself out honestly - since Scannell has been at 10 the game has been controlled much better and Ireland have the momentum once again. I would take a solid 10 who can deliver quality ball over a 10 who mixes the sublime with the stupid any day of the week.

Is the lineout dysfunctional or just Heffernans darts being rubbish?

marty2086 wrote:Is the lineout dysfunctional or just Heffernans darts being rubbish?

Both I would say.

James Ryan - scores a try on his international debut before playing for his club. Must only be a handful of players have ever done that before.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:James Ryan - scores a try on his international debut before playing for his club. Must only be a handful of players have ever done that before.

With his first touch of the ball too

Carberry is losing out to the prosaic Byrne at Leinster, and you can see why. A coach will always go with the banker.
I don't understand why Toner can't be more aggressive and I don't understand why Carberry can't learn. Maybe he can - but he needs to start showing inklings that the message is getting through

The strange thing is that he controlled the game beautifully when he first came onto the scene. All of the magic he produced was just an extra bonus. Now he seems to have lost both the control and the magic. He is extremely young so plenty of time to fix it.

Over-egging it a bit lads - Carbery had an excellent game against Wasps and was dangerous against Clermont too. Admittedly however he has looked much more comfortable at 15 rather than at 10 lately.

Carbery looked off the pace which isn't a surprise because he has hardly played 10 since his early season breakthrough. 10s have to play regularly as Sexton has shown lately.

The Great Aukster wrote:Carbery reminiscent of ROG getting charged down - oh dear!
Liam Toland  ridiculous.

ROG was coaching him on his kicking all week. Charge downs bound to happen when joey takes an age to kick a low spiral.
Jackson has nothing to fear from Carbery on that display, so long as Jackson starts to travel to far flung places some time soon.

TOH at fullback.... frustrating to only see him getting a chance now and not year ago when he was arguably in even better form.

Marmion had a class game but the forwards put it on a plate for him during that match, he'll get a better challenge in the coming matches and should thrive.

Ryan got a gift off the bench scoring that try... it looked like a really bad pass intended for a completely different player that went straight into his chest for the perfect line break.

Not sure about Porter.

Very little chat after this game! I guess that means there is little to complain about. The only real concerns were Carbery's continued run of poor form and hooker/second row combinations. The rest of the team did well I thought. The likes of O'Halloran show how important it is to have pace and guile in the back three, and Earls shown what he can do with even a bit of space. Of course, the opposition played a factor here as well, but a mobile pack, a playmaking 12, pacy 9s, alongside pace and creativity in the back three all makes a big difference.

Will Schmidt change the team much for Japan? I think he should, for the first test. Give Leavy and O'Donoghue a start (u20 team mates), Scannell at 12, Zebo and Conway in the back three and Treadwell should start in the row.

Think it's a given there'll be changes, he'll want to give everyone a chance to impress and to freshen things up.

I'd expect guys like Treadwell, Bealham, Tracy and Cooney to come in to the 23 but it could all depend on their flight to Japan, it's about 14 hours so hopefully no jet lag issues for anyone

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Carbery reminiscent of ROG getting charged down - oh dear!
Liam Toland  ridiculous.

ROG was coaching him on his kicking all week. Charge downs bound to happen when joey takes an age to kick a low spiral.
Jackson has nothing to fear from Carbery on that display, so long as Jackson starts to travel to far flung places some time soon.

TOH at fullback.... frustrating to only see him getting a chance now and not year ago when he was arguably in even better form.

Marmion had a class game but the forwards put it on a plate for him during that match, he'll get a better challenge in the coming matches and should thrive.

Ryan got a gift off the bench scoring that try... it looked like a really bad pass intended for a completely different player that went straight into his chest for the perfect line break.

Not sure about Porter.

TOH got his first cap last year in South Africa! As a player he isn't quite there yet but he will be seriously good with more experience.

Carberry out of the rest of the tour, with no replacement being called up and Scannell acting as backup again

Unfortunate for him, seems like a waste of an opportunity not bringing in a replacement. Just hope Jackson doesn't get hurt now

Sexton, Jackson, Carberry and Scannell are four contenders for two RWC squad places plus Luke Marshall and John Cooney can both play 10 in an emergency on this tour, so there is no need to widen the net any further.
Joe will be concentrating from this year on in giving his likely 32 as much experience together as possible and maybe giving another dozen players judicious gametime in case they are needed as cover.

Ross Byrne should also be in that category and some fans think he is a better player than Carbery. He certainly looks more composed and pulls the strings well. Plus, the excuse in Schmidt's favour is always that he is concentrating on the current tour or competition Ireland are involved in, so if he is interested in winning this tour he would be wise to bring in another option at 10. There is now only one specialist 10 in the team, which is very risky indeed.

You left out Olding if he ever stays fit

The problems come if any of the 3 front line 10s go down injured you are taking a huge risk with only 2 in the squad. It might not be the worst idea for Sexton not to go on tour next summer and be given a break, unlikely to happen though

Rory, Byrnes who I was thinking should be in there but not sure if he's injured

I don't think he is injured, Marty. I guess Schmidt has just decided not to bring someone else all the way to Japan.

Still, if Jackson gets injured...

Sure Jackson had to fly all the way to Japan on his lonesome, Byrne could have kept him company

There's also JJ Hanrahan in the mix next season.

There is zero chance Byrne would be called up if Joe was purely trying to win the series - if he thought he needed a flyhalf he would have been far more likely to go with Keatly (or even Madigan) who has more experience of the squad and have been involved in games later in the season.

There is little chance Joe would pick Byrne even with the RWC in mind as he only plays one position, and he cannot afford to have three pure 10s in the RWC squad. Sexton is nailed on barring catastrophe, and Jackson has been pushing him hard, so which of these would he be planning to leave out to accommodate Byrne? If both Johnny and Paddy are fit they need to maximise their Test gametime before the RWC, and that means limited sharing except maybe with late cameos from utility players like Scannell or Carberry.

Why was Ringrose given the difficult conversion? Joe obviously wanted to see if he could kick under pressure and values utility. When Rosie nailed it, Joe probably thought he had unearthed a break glass option in a place-kicking crisis.

Joe needs to be given some credit for easing players into the team too and it would be unfair on Byrne who hasn't trained with the squad to fly him halfway around the world to sit on the bench in training while Jackson and Scannell both try to get up to speed and both have head starts.

profitius wrote:There's also JJ Hanrahan in the mix next season.

... and Bleyendaal

Apparently Carbery was getting treatment when Ringrose took the kick. I don't think it was tactical or anything. As for Ross Byrne and preparing for the RWC, I think we need to prepare for the possibility that Sexton will not be available. If that is the case, the only two viable options for the 10 shirt are Jackson and Carbery. I would say that Ross Byrne is more similar to Jackson in playing style than Carbery and should absolutely be brought through for this possibility alone.

profitius wrote:There's also JJ Hanrahan in the mix next season.

I could be wrong as I don't watch the English league, but hasn't JJ been more successful at 12 rather than 10?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

profitius wrote:There's also JJ Hanrahan in the mix next season.

I could be wrong as I don't watch the English league, but hasn't JJ been more successful at 12 rather than 10?

He was but that seemed to be more to do with Saints style

I think the more players who can play at both 10 and 12 the better. In general I'm a big fan of the playmaking 12 and believe that it adds an entirely new attacking dimension to any team. So I will always favour Olding, Marshall and Scannell to McCloskey or Henshaw (who should be playing at 13 or 15).

Heres the team;

Ireland: S Zebo; A Conway, G Ringrose, R Scannell, K Earls; P Jackson, L McGrath; C Healy, N Scannell, J Ryan; Q Roux, D Toner; R Ruddock, D Leavy, J Conan.

Replacements: J Tracy, D Kilcoyne, F Bealham, K Treadwell, J O'Donoghue, K Marmion, R O'Loughlin, T O'Halloran.

Hope Treadwell gets some decent game time

...and O'Donoghue also. We are really starting to build some depth. It's great to see.

Very, very light on cover at 10. I'm going to have to assume that Luke Marshall did pick up a knock against the US?

Good team for this match. Hopefully they continue where they left off against USA and play with that freedom again.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Apparently Carbery was getting treatment when Ringrose took the kick. I don't think it was tactical or anything. As for Ross Byrne and preparing for the RWC, I think we need to prepare for the possibility that Sexton will not be available. If that is the case, the only two viable options for the 10 shirt are Jackson and Carbery. I would say that Ross Byrne is more similar to Jackson in playing style than Carbery and should absolutely be brought through for this possibility alone.

Whether Ringrose's kick was planned or not - he nailed it so he has become a break glass kicker. Did any of the Leinster fans expect that?

With regard to Byrne replacing Sexton, that will happen organically. Sexton won't be available for Leinster so Byrne will get more provincial experience. If Sexton is still unavailable then Byrne will be in line to be drafted in to Ireland squads. Giving guys like Scannell, Carberry and maybe Olding a chance at 10 is to test their ability to cover a third FH spot in the RWC squad as they aren't first choice 10s for their province. Byrne would never be third FH cover because that is too much of a luxury in a restricted squad, so if Byrne is to make the RWC squad it has to be instead of Sexton or Jackson. You may be right about Sexton not making the RWC but two years out is a bit too early to be writing Sexton out of the squad - he's not that crocked yet!

They probably did - many Leinster fans had asked why Ringrose didn't kick anymore as he had been a very proficient kicker in both his schooldays and at U20 level.

Sexton has not only had his injury problems over the years, he has been playing the worst rugby of his career for some reason.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Apparently Carbery was getting treatment when Ringrose took the kick. I don't think it was tactical or anything. As for Ross Byrne and preparing for the RWC, I think we need to prepare for the possibility that Sexton will not be available. If that is the case, the only two viable options for the 10 shirt are Jackson and Carbery. I would say that Ross Byrne is more similar to Jackson in playing style than Carbery and should absolutely be brought through for this possibility alone.

Whether Ringrose's kick was planned or not - he nailed it so he has become a break glass kicker. Did any of the Leinster fans expect that?

With regard to Byrne replacing Sexton, that will happen organically. Sexton won't be available for Leinster so Byrne will get more provincial experience. If Sexton is still unavailable then Byrne will be in line to be drafted in to Ireland squads. Giving guys like Scannell, Carberry and maybe Olding a chance at 10 is to test their ability to cover a third FH spot in the RWC squad as they aren't first choice 10s for their province. Byrne would never be third FH cover because that is too much of a luxury in a restricted squad, so if Byrne is to make the RWC squad it has to be instead of Sexton or Jackson. You may be right about Sexton not making the RWC but two years out is a bit too early to be writing Sexton out of the squad - he's not that crocked yet!

Tyler Bleyendaal & JJ Hanrahan will also be eligible.

Hanrahan and Scannell will have to compete with each other first and then Bleyendaal next to become established contenders. Keatley is still in the mix too, isn't he?

The Great Aukster wrote:Hanrahan and Scannell will have to compete with each other first and then Bleyendaal next to become established contenders. Keatley is still in the mix too, isn't he?

There should be at least one outhalf available from Munster for cover. Tyler is No. 1 outhalf at the moment and will be IQ at the end of the year. Its up to JJ to overtake him. I would not write off Keatley either - he seems to have got his mojo back. It up to JJ to stake a claim.

Sin é wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Hanrahan and Scannell will have to compete with each other first and then Bleyendaal next to become established contenders. Keatley is still in the mix too, isn't he?

There should be at least one outhalf available from Munster for cover. Tyler is No. 1 outhalf at the moment and will be IQ at the end of the year. Its up to JJ to overtake him. I would not write off Keatley either - he seems to have got his mojo back. It up to JJ to stake a claim.

What was JJ's form like on his break abroad Sin é ? I didn't get a chance to see anything of him while he was away.

Could not dislodge the limited Myler - which suggests not good enough for International rugby

Personally I think Sexton, closely followed by Jackson, are head and shoulders above the other options.
Going to be a real 4 player bun fight at Munster which will probably mean none of them get a long enough run of games to challenge for the Ireland spot

I think Mylers limitations were to his advantage, Saints structured game suited him but not Hanrahan who did shine when he got a run at 12

Didn't help the bosses son coming along too

Part of the problem at Saints is also sub standard threes - Burrell and the Pisi brothers simply are not good enough
Hanrahan was also not able to regularly hold down the 12 shirt in his time there.
As soon as the bosses son hit the big time he was toast

Is Eirsports 2 the only channel showing the game tomorrow???

JJ also had a few injuries as well at bad times of the season. He has played very little and mainly at 12.