Lions 2017 - the decider

First topic message reminder :



After months if not years, of debate, arguments and plenty bickering the time has come - The Lions are in New Zealand and the tour has begun!

I think it is fair to say that if you're not a fan of the concept of the Lions then this isn't the thread to bring it up - we have had plenty of that over several months and the debate has been done to death. This thread will hopefully be a positive place where those excited about the tour (like me!) can talk about everything that's going on. That's until Jamie Roberts gets a callup of course...

3 June - Provincial union team (Toll Stadium, Whangarei)

7 June - Blues (Eden Park, Auckland)

10 June - Crusaders (AMI Stadium, Christchurch)

13 June - Highlanders (Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin)

17 June - Maori (International Stadium, Rotorua)

20 June - Chiefs (Waikato Stadium, Hamilton)

24 June - New Zealand (First Test, Eden Park, Auckland)

27 June - Hurricanes (Westpac Stadium, Wellington)

1 July - New Zealand (Second Test, Westpac Stadium, Wellington)

8 July - New Zealand (Third Test, Eden Park, Auckland)

Well gotta applaud Gatland.

Tense, edge if your seat, but error strewn

What an anti-climax to the series.
Offside is offside. NZ robbed there thanks to Poite.

Draw

Ultimately the right result I think , however unsatisfying .

Hell of a match !

Scottrf wrote:Well gotta applaud Gatland.

No we don't.

I'll applaud the players though terrific game.

Worst ending. A draw. Meh.

Bit of an anti climax in the end!

Barrett's kicking costing NZ again

Well...how we got out of this series with a draw i shall never know but fair play...I thought we would be pasted in this series but somehow we get away with a historic draw

ABs still being allowed to tackle beyond the ruck I see also ..

ebop wrote:Bent f**king NH referee

Absolute f**king disgrace

I have to say, that was criminal from Poite. Hansen will surely bring it up.

The Loaded Dog wrote:What an anti-climax to the series.
Offside is offside. NZ robbed there thanks to Poite.

Incorrect. Emphasis is on their being an intention to be offside and interfer and he has no time to react and pulled out immediately.

Lions errors were basic, NZ errors cost them 21+ points and the win. Blimey...

Fair result but NZ should have had a pen I'm afraid. No certainty they would have nailed it though.

Drawn series is a huge achievement.

Barrett would've fluffed any shot. Not got the stones of Farrell

Can't believe the Lions have drawn the series. Most would have predicted 3-0 NZ

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

ebop wrote:Bent f**king NH referee

Absolute f**king disgrace

I have to say, that was criminal from Poite. Hansen will surely bring it up.

Yeah, ah well, it's done now

Well, a bit of an anti-climax. Fair result though given the performances.

Kudos to the players, it's been intense. Enjoy the beers.

I'll step in and edit the nonsense out then

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bit of an anti climax in the end!

Barrett's kicking costing NZ again

Not so sure about that. Think it was actually the timing, and players, of Gatland's substitutions in this game that cost the Lions the series win if I may be honest.

My 3 players of the test series are Davies, SOB and Faletau.

They were given penalty at the start that was wrong so can't moan when it went the other way - and weren't penalised for offside a minute later where the kick would have been in range so can't have it both ways ...

Scottrf wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:What an anti-climax to the series.
Offside is offside. NZ robbed there thanks to Poite.

Incorrect. Emphasis is on their being an intention to be offside and interfer and he has no time to react and pulled out immediately.

Was their intention though with him standing so close to the receiver... as if he was intending to gain some advantage should the ball have gone backwards? Can't have it both ways!

For all the (justified) criticism of Farrell today , in that last six minutes he
*wrestled the ball back from NZ deep in defence
*kicked long and into touch from the penalty
*landed the pressure kick to level the scores

I am ready to forgive some earlier defensive errors.

AB's were there for the taking. It's been a long time since they have played as poorly as they have in this series.

Wrong call from the ref. Otherwise Lions defense held out enough though they were lacking in attack. AB's left too many opportunities out there which they will be disappointed by. Fair play both sides though ultimately the ref made the wrong call at the end.

The real winners of the series are the French referees

Well done you w*nkers

ebop wrote:The real winners of the series are the French referees

Well done you w*nkers

True NZ response.

Scottrf wrote:

ebop wrote:The real winners of the series are the French referees

Well done you w*nkers

True NZ response.

Ok, defend that last call

Go on mate

The Loaded Dog wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:What an anti-climax to the series.
Offside is offside. NZ robbed there thanks to Poite.

Incorrect. Emphasis is on their being an intention to be offside and interfer and he has no time to react and pulled out immediately.

Was their intention though with him standing so close to the receiver... as if he was intending to gain some advantage should the ball have gone backwards? Can't have it both ways!

I actually thought the ball went backwards. It only seemed to go forward due to Williams going backwards further than the ball.

Looked like a bit of play acting by him as well though.

I think everyone out there would agree to the old play ground rule...next score wins.

ebop wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

ebop wrote:The real winners of the series are the French referees

Well done you w*nkers

True NZ response.

Ok, defend that last call

Go on mate

Already have. Simple benefit of the doubt call when he didnt have time to react. Emphasis is to prove that it wasn't accidental rather than vice versa.

Scottrf wrote:

ebop wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

ebop wrote:The real winners of the series are the French referees

Well done you w*nkers

True NZ response.

Ok, defend that last call

Go on mate

Already have. Simple benefit of the doubt call when he didnt have time to react. Emphasis is to prove that it wasn't accidental rather than vice versa.

Good to see people taking it on the chin

Scottrf wrote:

ebop wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

ebop wrote:The real winners of the series are the French referees

Well done you w*nkers

True NZ response.

Ok, defend that last call

Go on mate

Already have. Simple benefit of the doubt call when he didnt have time to react. Emphasis is to prove that it wasn't accidental rather than vice versa.

He grabbed it. Dropped it. Penalty all day every day. Except when you have a wacky French referee that has a penchant for screwing things up because he doesn't have the bottle.

But you're OK with all the stuff the ABs got away with though ...

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think everyone out there would agree to the old play ground rule...next score wins.

But only if we score

In fairness, I have knocked Gatland a lot but that is some result.

History will show that he has coached 6 Lions tests, won 3 lost 2 and drawn 1. That is pretty impressive.

Wasnt that last penalty similar to Scotland Australia in the wc?

Didn't everyone have a go at the ref for NOT doing what happened here?

eirebilly wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

The Loaded Dog wrote:What an anti-climax to the series.
Offside is offside. NZ robbed there thanks to Poite.

Incorrect. Emphasis is on their being an intention to be offside and interfer and he has no time to react and pulled out immediately.

Was their intention though with him standing so close to the receiver... as if he was intending to gain some advantage should the ball have gone backwards? Can't have it both ways!

I actually thought the ball went backwards. It only seemed to go forward due to Williams going backwards further than the ball.

Looked like a bit of play acting by him as well though.

No it definitely went forward. No doubt there.
The problem with the law is the word "intention". Owens was obviously right there next to Williams hoping to gain some advantage. How can one then say that it was unintentional? If the ball had travelled backwards off Williams... then fine. Play on. Owens then intends to take advantage of the spill.

By the way, as I said before the test the rubbish about needing to score 4 tries to beat NZ is just that. All points are created equal.

temporary21 wrote:Wasnt that last penalty similar to Scotland Australia in the wc?

Didn't everyone have a go at the ref for NOT doing what happened here?

No, because it touched an Australian player before the Scottish player caught it.

No Extra time? I am very surprised about that. Well played the Lions for not losing the Tour, but well played to the Abs for giving the lions a tough test series.

I am really stuck for word at the moment, would of thought a test series like this would of had extra time to add on.

eirebilly wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bit of an anti climax in the end!

Barrett's kicking costing NZ again

Not so sure about that. Think it was actually the timing, and players, of Gatland's substitutions in this game that cost the Lions the series win if I may be honest.

My 3 players of the test series are Davies, SOB and Faletau.

That may be the case, but if NZ had a kicker of Farrell calibre (or even just better than Barrett) they would have won 3-0!

Well a draw isn't as bad as loss. But still bad.

ebop wrote:The real winners of the series are the French referees

Well done you w*nkers

Yeh, the French really love the Brits!! Sore losers are one thing but sore drawers?  Shame not all kiwi fans have the class of their team's captain?

Two much talk about one call, there are a stack of calls made during the game that both sides will feel agrieved about . The ABs had the chances to have daylight by half time. Didn't take them, didn't win.

Should Poite be chosen to ref a game of that magnitude again?

I'd have to watch it back but felt 3 or 4 big calls in the 2nd half were bottled out there

The Loaded Dog wrote:

eirebilly wrote:
I actually thought the ball went backwards. It only seemed to go forward due to Williams going backwards further than the ball.

Looked like a bit of play acting by him as well though.

No it definitely went forward. No doubt there.
The problem with the law is the word "intention". Owens was obviously right there next to Williams hoping to gain some advantage. How can one then say that it was unintentional? If the ball had travelled backwards off Williams... then fine. Play on. Owens then intends to take advantage of the spill.

Owens definitely played the ball and immediately dropped it, it was simply a natural reaction. If it was forward (which I still doubt) then it is a penalty.

Anyways, I honestly feel that Williams should have been subbed earlier and Watson sent to 15 as Williams has been very weak under the high ball all series. It was a good call from the AB's to target him with that kick off as it was always going to be 50/50 with him under it. They may not have taken that option had a more secure catcher been on the field.

That was an ultra competitive Lions series. All the way through. The mid-week games and the tests. So good on the Lions

Exactly - they ignore all the stuff that went in the AB's favour ...

eirebilly wrote:In fairness, I have knocked Gatland a lot but that is some result.

History will show that he has coached 6 Lions tests, won 3 lost 2 and drawn 1. That is pretty impressive.

Yep, and a helluva result for the players. Scratch side and after the first game I thought they'd pump us. The ABs were the better team but my word they looked average at times. It should give the home nations and Ireland a real boost, my only slight concern is how few English players stepped up to this level. Thought the Welsh and Murray/SOB and to a lesser extent Sexton, were immense.

milkyboy wrote:

ebop wrote:The real winners of the series are the French referees

Well done you w*nkers

Yeh, the French really love the Brits!! Sore losers are one thing but sore drawers?  Shame not all kiwi fans have the class of their team's captain?

Two much talk about one call, there are a stack of calls made during the game that both sides will feel agrieved about . The ABs had the chances to have daylight by half time. Didn't take them, didn't win.

Yup

Well done Lions

Good on Warburton for convincing Poite to check with the TMO

I think Scotland fans would want an explanation from 2 years ago if Poite's call was indeed correct!

To be fair you see those given as penalties all the time.

I must admit, I am really confused.

I've just had to watch the Scotland vs Oz penalty from the RWC for reference.

In the Scotland game the ball is palmed backwards, bounces off an Australian player and is caught by a Scottish player who is "offside". Now, because it came off yellow and was caught by Blue, that should have been a Scrum? However joubert awarded a pen, the less said the better...

Now, in this match, the ball bounces off Williams, and into a the hands of a Lions player, that should have been a penalty but Poite called it a scrum.

For me, both calls are wrong...

Am I right or completely missing what's going on?

Heaf wrote:Exactly - they ignore all the stuff that went in the AB's favour ...

Like ummmmm....ummmmm