Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

He came across very poor as did fellow lib Clegg with his constant sniping at the Brexit issue.
Good riddance to both.Libs may well be a non entity now.
Tories have to proceed with caution now and build up some confidence again.

Our fire guy at work is telling us today that they really should have gone for a full evacuation at an early stage but that runs right against all previous policy putting residents and fire staff in potentially greater danger.In Blackadder terms it would have been going 'over the top'

[Diggers]

Spot the odd ones out. Walker, Shaw, Stones.  If they were so good team from Spain, Germany and Italy would have been interested in them.

Stones especially is RUBBISH.

Definitely. Says a lot that those leagues aren't clamouring for all the stupidly priced British players.

Stones may have gone for sill money but he is far, far from rubbish. If you look at the kind of player England needs to play a good international style, he fits the exact template. I remember so many centre halfs getting slated when they were young, Hansen is a good example. It's a position you grow into, they usually peak around 30. Most of his issues at City were a lack of protection or a decent, constant partnership.
He does frustrate with his decision making, but if I had to pick out an English player who will really kick on, Stones would be my first choice.

[beninho]

Not just English footballers that are costing stupid money, Barcelona just agreed to sign a full back for 30m euros, whos played 30 games for Benfica. Real Madrid just agreed 38m on a 16 year old Brazilian and Juventus spent 90m euros on Higuain last year.

Football is ridiculous.

[super_realist]

In comparison to people who have gone for similar money he is rubbish.

His game is fraught with mistakes and naïve play and as you say dreadful decision making.

If he had so much "potential" than I'd expect more than just spendthrift English clubs to be after him, but the lack of interest in virtually ALL English/British players is enough to show just how over-rated and over-priced they are.

£50m for any British player bar Bale is hilarious. Not one of them are in that class. Of course people are worth what people are prepared to pay but when you use value to compare quality, it's hilarious that Walker/Shaw/Stones are in the same price bracket as ACTUAL world class players.

[beninho]

Footballers are over priced, not just in the UK.

If Barcelona are paying 30m for a portugese player with 40 games for Benfica, then the cost of a very good player like Walker is about right.

John STones is has potential, he has plenty of talent and had played 70+ games in the premier league before he joined City. The fact that it was stupid money was because Everton didnt need to sign and Man City are very rich. Like When Ramos joined Madrid for 30m at 19. He turned out alright, but it was a massive risk at the time.

There are only 3 teams in europe that can rival english clubs, Barcelona, Madrid and Munich but they have pickings of the best in their league for a lot less money.

[super_realist]

and Juventus and PSG.
Man City and Chelsea could also buy from the same leagues as Barcelona, Madrid and Munich, but just spunk money on over-rated nobodies.

I'm not quite sure why Walker would leave Spurs anyway. Not as if money means much to these guys.

[beninho]

The english league is the richest in the world, you have 6/7 clubs that can spend on players. Other teams no that, which is why they ramp up the cost of the player. But its the same with all of the big teams, they all pay well over the odds for good players and then ridiculous amounts for very good players or potentially good players.

Thats modern football and its very hard to get a bargain.

[super_realist]

The point is WHY you'd spend all that money on someone who is ONLY going to be of any use in the domestic league.

English teams repeatedly fail in the biggest competition in Europe, and buying these overpriced and over-rated players seems like a token gesture, rather than one which will actually progress the team. Walker/Shaw/Sterling/Stones aren't going to win you the Champions League, it's almost as if they are bought to stop your domestic rivals from buying them.

We're seeing how ridiculous prices are in the fact that no one wants to buy Ross Barkley.

[beninho]

Ross Barkley has gone past the hype stage as a promising youngster, and done nothing to back it up. He is now 23 so should be an integral part of a team, and he isnt. I also think he is coming into the final year of his contract, so his value will drop like a stone. I see Spurs for about 13m in late August.

[JAS]

The point is WHY you'd spend all that money on someone who is ONLY going to be of any use in the domestic league.

English teams repeatedly fail in the biggest competition in Europe, and buying these overpriced and over-rated players seems like a token gesture, rather than one which will actually progress the team. Walker/Shaw/Sterling/Stones aren't going to win you the Champions League, it's almost as if they are bought to stop your domestic rivals from buying them.

We're seeing how ridiculous prices are in the fact that no one wants to buy Ross Barkley.

When all is said and done, no matter which way you cut it, the excess money swilling around in football these days has ruined it.
There is no loyalty to anything other than the £££
Directors sack managers on a whim if they think their ROI might not be looking good
Players have relatively little genuine interest in pulling on an international shirt
The European playing field is no longer level, its distorted toward where the money is
With the governing bodies being corrupt as Fxxk, there is no confidence in referees acting objectively

Quite frankly I find the financing of the game nowadays both by Sky and the money laundering oligarchs that own clubs to be more vulgar than the hooliganism that plagued the game in the 70s/80s.

[beninho]

I love football, I will always love it, but I really dont think I like it. Even at the level of Wycombe, the fans are demanding, they get fed up if results are poor call for manager sackings and rant when we sign journeymen players.

[super_realist]

One of the most annoying things is when some crappy team like Bury, Yeovil or Rotherham get a new manager and they say stuff like "we'll play the Bury way" or whatever.

What the hell does that mean? There is no "club way" to play. You play in a matter which suits the ability of the players you have.

[Be_the_ball]

Whats going on with all these acid attacks? Sky have said theres been 1800 since 2010, nearly 500 last year in London !?!? Is there a sicker way to assault someone? Permanently disfigure someone for a moped? Some real scum out there.

[super_realist]

I think that unfortunately we'll see more of these sort of attacks. Very hard to get any prior intelligence on such an attack so such low tech-high impact attacks could well become more commonplace.

Got to be a life sentence.

[Be_the_ball]

Two teenagers arrested I see now, for 5 different attacks around London last night. Little scumbags.

[navyblueshorts]

I think that unfortunately we'll see more of these sort of attacks. Very hard to get any prior intelligence on such an attack so such low tech-high impact attacks could well become more commonplace.

Got to be a life sentence.

Had to check if it was April 1st today...

Just out of interest, what acids are used in these attacks? If any of the concentrated strong acids (nitric, sulphuric, hydrochloric or hydrofluoric), just ban their sale to anyone except industry/research etc. Could add some others too, such as phosphoric, acetic etc. No-one needs any of these at home.

[dynamark]

Back to Stones for a min he is good 97 per cent of the time but always makes a couple of dreadful errors per game. Easy on the eye but I wouldn't go near.
Our man with my friend on the bag won the Trilby event yesterday .I didn't realise but best 4 go into a 3 hole play off for the win and he went par birdie par with a shank up the last to take it.
Big night in the clubhouse ensued.
Surprised that no one seems to want to give us a big fee for Mahrez at present he is a guy who will score set up others and really influence a game.Hope he stays and gets his finger out tbh

[Be_the_ball]

Back to Stones for a min he is good 97 per cent of the time but always makes a couple of dreadful errors per game. Easy on the eye but I wouldn't go near.
Our man with my friend on the bag won the Trilby event yesterday .I didn't realise but best 4 go into a 3 hole play off for the win and he went par birdie par with a shank up the last to take it.
Big night in the clubhouse ensued.
Surprised that no one seems to want to give us a big fee for Mahrez at present he is a guy who will score set up others and really influence a game.Hope he stays and gets his finger out tbh

Congrats to your mate dyna

It does look like fun, I get a laugh when Rob Lee is commentating on it, I'd say he'd rather be sticking tooth picks in his eyes, but tries to sound cheerful

[McLaren]

Super

I do wonder if the English clubs are just a little too honest about what they have paid for a player. Barca and Real probably hide a fair chunk of the transfer fees they pay as part of the massive tax dodging they seem so keen on.

[dynamark]

BTB I played with Rob Lee in a pro am at Harefield Place (now closed I believe) way back.He was 4 under after the first 3 holes very tasty.
The trilby final is somewhere near Hull next month so may be a few in attendance. Our man caddie and wives are having a few days away .I think the concept is a an amateur comp with serious pressure and in that respect it seems to work.My daughter worked on the bar yesterday and it was 1.30 am when I picked her up.Costs money to host it but our owners seemed happy enough.
Open next week!!

[Be_the_ball]

I like Rob Lee as a presenter he's good fun. Sounds good dyna

[Diggers]

Look at Stones attributes, rather than his faults. That's why he is rated so highly, he has ability that other players in his position can't get close to. He can learn to get rid of the odd stupid pass, other carthorse centre backs can't develop his pace, reading and skill.
Good athletic full backs are everywhere these days, so the Walker money is bonkers for a 27/28 year old. Young, ball playing English centre backs are as rare as rocking horse poo, that's why Stones is rated.

[super_realist]

That's a silly way to rate a player. You are only as good as your weakest points. Plenty players are good at one thing, but if other areas let them down consistently they aren't rated as good players. Only the English would look at Stones and build such an ordinary player to be what he isn't and probably never will be.  He's 23 for goodness sake, I'd take what you were saying if he was 17, but most players have eradicated all his problems by that time.

You say other players can't get close to him, yet he's at the core of many of a teams mistakes. No good stopping 1 attack if your mistakes let in 3 others.

Him being English should be nothing to do with him being rated, but we all know if he was not English his value would be 50% of what was paid for him. He's a token gesture.

[Diggers]

Sorry, you really are showing a lack of any footballing nouse whatsoever. Hardly surprising as you supposedly do t watch it. You clearly have zero idea how centre halfs mature, what it takes to make a great rather than good one, and most importantly how important a stable partnership is...something Stones never had at City last year, or indeed any midfield defensive cover. If you don't take those factors into account you're just clueless, sorry but that's a fact.
He's rated on his potential and what he's already showed he can do, let's see how he goes this year in a more settled team.

[super_realist]

Ha ha, and you DO KNOW how centre half's "mature" I suppose Diggers, what powers of Centre Half Maturation detection do you have? Your opinion is no better than mine so stop pretending like you have special insight into this. Maybe you should offer your wisdom to Sunderland, or perhaps they realise that you know no more than anyone else about it.

Stones is prone to error, that's all there is to it and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. Of course players mature at different rates, that's not in question, HOWEVER Stones is 23, grossly over-rated and over-priced and if he wasn't English, would be a £20m player at best.

[Diggers]

Sorry, in this instance it is better, I've played the game and spent a life being interested in watching and enjoying the game Andy watching how players develop over a career.
Two problems with you and football, first you talking about it is like me discussing a golf swing, it's basic and badly informed.
Secondly, you get your panties so tightly wound over English players value that you completely lose any objectivity.

[super_realist]

I've played the game too DIggers, you're sounding like Ray Houghton on Talksport "you've not played the game Adrian"
I've previously "enjoyed" watching football too, but I don't watch it so regularly now, but that doesn't mean that I can't comment that Stones isn't as great or has as much potential as people are making out. I've seen enough of him to see that he's exactly what I'm saying about him.

I notice the lack of interest from teams other than spendthrift English clubs seems to suggest they didn't see much in him.

So you think that if Stones was from Estonia or Norway he'd be rated as a £50 million player? Pull the other one Diggers.

[McLaren]

Super

Got to agree with Diggers here, you claim you do not watch football or have any interest in it yet are happy to put forward opinions of players who I presume you have never seen play. Please explain?

[Diggers]

Try and get over the money, it's the premier league, its full of cash and they pay more for English players. It's just business.
But you do not consistently play for a top 6 premier league club unless you are good enough.
Super, City have shipped out all their full backs and most of their centre halfs, pretty much the only defender who came out of their season in credit is Stones, City fans are happy with him. You patently have no scooby as to the importance of a solid, consistent defensive unit, the most important pairing on a pitch is in central defence.
Time will tell, I think that in 2-3 years Stones will be rated as one of the best centre halfs or holding midfielders around.
Of course everyone can have an opinion on anything, that's great. But when an opinion is badly informed then equally that can be pointed out. You don't know much about football, it's not the end of the world when you don't even like it..though do apparently watch just enough to talk about any player in depth. Not sure how that works really but there you go.

[Diggers]

Also re Walker, is 50m stupid money, of course. Do City care, not one jot.
They needed a quick fix to play a certain style, they could have bought cheaper abroad but in Walker they have a guy who has been as good as anyone at right back in the premier league for the past 3 years. It's not random, they will look at his stats, at Spurs stats, then make a decision based on that.
If you forget money, which may be tasteful but really is utterly irrelevant to City's ambitions, then Walker is a great buy for them.
And as for money for Walker not being relevant, well he's probably doubled his salary at least for his last big move. Of course it's relevant, is anyone suggesting that the likes of Rory and Phil should play for free? They still chase the dollar despite being far wealthier than someone like Walker, no reason to see footballers as any more money grabbing than other sportsmen.

[navyblueshorts]

Try and get over the money, it's the premier league, its full of cash and they pay more for English players. It's just business.
But you do not consistently play for a top 6 premier league club unless you are good enough.
Super, City have shipped out all their full backs and most of their centre halfs, pretty much the only defender who came out of their season in credit is Stones, City fans are happy with him. You patently have no scooby as to the importance of a solid, consistent defensive unit, the most important pairing on a pitch is in central defence.
Time will tell, I think that in 2-3 years Stones will be rated as one of the best centre halfs or holding midfielders around.
Of course everyone can have an opinion on anything, that's great. But when an opinion is badly informed then equally that can be pointed out. You don't know much about football, it's not the end of the world when you don't even like it..though do apparently watch just enough to talk about any player in depth. Not sure how that works really but there you go.

Time will tell with Stones, but I tend to agree with S_R. If he was that good, with that much potential, there'd be noticeable interest from Spain, Italy and Germany. Regardless of centre half maturation rates. He has got the ability though.

...is anyone suggesting that the likes of Rory and Phil should play for free? They still chase the dollar despite being far wealthier than someone like Walker, no reason to see footballers as any more money grabbing than other sportsmen.

I'm not sure anyone was suggesting Walker was being greedy or whatever were they? Of course he'd go for that money and City have as good a chance as Spurs of being involved in the big games. It's the transfer fee itself that people are querying, but given the absurd money sloshing around the EPL I'm not sure why anyone should be surprised.

[kwinigolfer]

Taking out the money side of things, and trying to figure out who's a good "team" fit, I'd be surprised if Walker is much of an upgrade for Citeh; he's miles behind Trippier as a crosser and passer of the ball, but he has great pace plus a decent shot, and I suppose that makes up for any defensive short-comings. Not convinced that he'll advance his game in Manchester. As for Stones, I'd think he needs to play in a settled back four before he can properly be judged, but will that happen?
Can see Spurs going thru a difficult couple of years ahead until they can make the new WHL a home fortress again, especially if they lose Dier this summer.

[Diggers]

Really Kwini, cant remotely agree with that comparison. I like Trippier but don't see him as good as Walker. Be interesting to see if his pass completion and cross accuracy stats back up what you are saying, personally can't see it.

[kwinigolfer]

Yes, but what Citeh need from that position is someone who gives them some balance defensively, which Walker can probably do, but also creates chances; think Walker going forward is just as one-dimensional as Navas in that regard.
If I was Levy, I'd take Trippier + 50 mil and run.

[1GrumpyGolfer]

I think, but can't be arsed to actually check what the home grown rules are, English players command a premium when moving to other English teams. Take that out and you probably get a more realistic value for them.

[dynamark]

Not sure the European clubs are that flush with cash other than the obvious few.Big money is in the EPL along with the wealthy owners.

[beninho]

The money in football, especially tge premier league is so vast it makes the transfer fees meaningless. Its just a sign of the players club conteact situation and wo is buying. Its to eady to get riled up about it, but it is what it is. Sigurdsson 50m is also ridiculous and ge isnt english!

[SmithersJones]

I know nothing about football but I know that the plural of half is halves.

[super_realist]

Super

Got to agree with Diggers here, you claim you do not watch football or have any interest in it yet are happy to put forward opinions of players who I presume you have never seen play.  Please explain?

Why am I not surprised Mac, you seem to just exist to be contrary. I don't particularly like Football, but I do hear, read and watch it, albeit not as much as I used to.

However, I've still seen NOTHING to suggest that any of the over-rated triumvirate are worth anything like the money that they have gone for. Luke Shaw? Just think about that for a moment. Luke Bloody Shaw?

[beninho]

The thing with luke shaw was he was 18 and both chelsea and united were in for him, and southampton didnt need to sell. 27m could have been a snip, but he had injuries and then mourinho took over, and he is not big on attacking full backs.

[dynamark]

Ham and Bot did a nice tidy job earlier today.
Supers critical appraisal did the trick.
Just had a look at tickets for Birkdale its no bargain day out thats for sure.Weather may be a factor.

[beninho]

So chelsea pay 40m for a player from monaco while sell their own centre midfielder youth player for 5m. The pkayers are the same age yet one played consistently for his club and got better the other didnt and got sold. If chalobah had been given 3 years and 70 games for chelsea they may not have needed to sign the new shiny thing for loads of money.

[raycastleunited]

I'm sceptical about the huge transfer fees we see reported in the press. If you look at Spurs bank statement, is there a credit there for £50m from Man City?

I believe the actual amount of cash that changes hands is far lower, that fees are spread out over several years, and that when a player moves on again the fees are terminated / renegotiated.

It's in the interests of both parties to inflate the fees reported: the seller wants to appease the fans by showing they've got a good return and it was an offer they couldn't refuse; the buyer wants to make a statement of "intent" to the fans.

[raycastleunited]

Spot the odd ones out. Walker, Shaw, Stones.  If they were so good team from Spain, Germany and Italy would have been interested in them.

Stones especially is RUBBISH.

What makes you think that overseas clubs are not pursuing English players? I expect they are, it's just not reported because the UK media has no insight into Juve or PSG summer targets.

Local journalists will be in regular contact with the key local football clubs. Eg the Liverpool football correspondent will speak with someone and Everton and Liverpool almost every day, and the club in turn will drip feed info to the journalist. A little bit of gossip one day, a minor scoop the next, a player interview another day etc etc, all intended to ensure the newspaper reports the club in the best possible light. As a result, we only hear about who the local clubs are targeting, not external interest.

I also think the key issue is that English players often lack the desire to move abroad. Why go on an adventure to a foreign country when you can stay in your comfort zone at home.

[super_realist]

If overseas clubs were pursuing English players why are virtually no English players playing abroad? Everyone knows that if clubs are after a certain player that somehow the story is "leaked" to the media. Remember when the De Gea was supposed to be going to Madrid, they hardly kept that quiet did they?

It's ABSURD to suggest that newspapers are not "privy" to Juve or PSG transfer targets. It's not a case of them being privy, it's about clubs deliberately publishing such information intending to unsettle the player. If governments can't keep secrets from newspapers, how can you expect football teams to do it

Why play abroad? You might be right that English/British players lack the culture, intrigue, intelligence and desire to improve their career and get out of their comfort zone, after all didn't that oaf Ince turn down Inter to stay at Hull? Bit of a sad indictment on British players, and they ought to be derided for it.

It's no wonder why English national teams struggle so badly in tournaments when they aren't adventurous enough to be playing in a country which has a style of play more closely matched to tournament play.

[beninho]

English players dont move abroad because they get so much money playing in the richest league in the world. I dont see why a footballer should be derided for earning as much money as he could!

[super_realist]

What? Do you think that Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern, Juve, PSG don't pay as much if not more than they would get in the Premiership?

Simple fact is virtually no English players ever interest foreign teams because they know they aren't good enough or have the ability to change the way they play.

Who was the last Englishman to play in a decent team abroad?

Just goes to show they've got Lowry syndrome. Journeymen.

[beninho]

Real Madrid have previously said they cannot compete with the English Teams. Look at the Pogba transfer, Madrid were blown out the water. In terms of salaries Lewondowski, Robben and Ribery were the highest paid at Bayern Munich on 160euros pw, a lot but less then Ozil and Sanchez have been offered at Arsenal. Juve had Higuain at 150euro pw and Pjanic at 110euro pw.

Madrid and Barca pay big bucks to the big names, but the squad players not so much.

[beninho]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/barcelona/12004215/Barcelona-join-Chelsea-and-Manchester-United-in-John-Stones-transfer-battle.html
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chelsea-barcelona-real-madrid-fight-john-stones-next-summer-1539742
http://talksport.com/football/transfer-news-barcelona-drop-interest-john-stones-due-evertons-high-asking-price
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/788946/Dele-Alli-Real-Madrid-Tottenham-Transfer-News-Mauricio-Pochettino-Gareth-Bale-Zidane
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/12089518/Real-Madrid-interest-in-Harry-Kane-not-surprising-says-Mauricio-Pochettino.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-transfer-gossip-barcelona-join-race-for-dele-alli-and-they-want-mauricio-pochettino-to-a3435391.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3682325/paris-saint-germain-back-tottenham-defender-danny-rose-but-face-competition-manchester-united-manchester-city/

Just a handful of rumours linking english players to big clubs, and the stones one says that Barcelona cannot compete with english teams.

[dynamark]

Stop the press Lowry is next on the Super hit list.Ok is a tad overweight and Ill never forgive him for beating Rock in the irish (Rob didn't mind he got the cheque!) but he is a lot better golfer than most .
Very few foreign teams pay top dollar probably 4 in each league who dominate.We do have more depth probably 8/10 clubs.

[super_realist]

Real Madrid have previously said they cannot compete with the English Teams. Look at the Pogba transfer, Madrid were blown out the water.  In terms of salaries Lewondowski, Robben and Ribery were the highest paid at Bayern Munich on 160euros pw, a lot but less then Ozil and Sanchez have been offered at Arsenal. Juve had Higuain at 150euro pw and Pjanic at 110euro pw.

Madrid and Barca pay big bucks to the big names, but the squad players not so much.

Yeah, I'm sure Ronaldo is penurious isn't he? Messi just signed a contract for 1 million Euro's a week, so it's balls that they can't afford it. Utter rubbish.
How much did they spend on Ronaldo, Neymar, Bale, Suarez etc? Yeah, they're skint aren't they?

[Sponsored content]