Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

LionsV2 wrote:

Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant.  I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

He said you were “PIG IGNORANT”. I’ve heard of hard of hearing before but not hard of reading.

Pr4wn wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

superflyweight wrote:
I only posted the article as a response to your unstinting faith in a political party that does some things right and does some things wrong.

Well I'd say that is a first right there.

And who says I say the SNP do nothing wrong? Huge assumption there. My affinity with the SNP is their end goal - an independent Scotland away from the incompetence of Westminster rule. I also see fit to give a modicum of balance to discussions here. All Tory/Labour good and SNP bad views would leave little to discuss.

We can only work with what you give us, bud. You refuse to accept any criticism of them whatsoever.

And that works both ways.

Congratulations. You've just illustrated our point absolutely perfectly.

CaledonianCraig wrote:...Now onto this yellow Tory issue. Thoughts?

Not interested.

How absolutely pathetic of Westminster's Tory government:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-42994101

Maybe don't threaten to publish confidential papers then.

The polls are showing Labour support falling yet this week in By elections Labour....

Brighton +21%
Weymouth +26%
Wales + 14%....

Not sure what is happening...

Council by elections with a handful of voters.

Labour gains in Weymouth, conservative gains too and they won the seat from an independent.

I'd expect labour to be doing a lot better than these with the level of activism they have. 82 votes in one of the seats.

And the show rolls on in ni.

The latest comedy is the pm and Taoiseach turn up to announce the restoration of devolution and the executive after a year of negotiations.

The next day talks break down, over an Irish language act that the dup agreed to 10 years ago during the St. Andrews act when devolution initially happened.

This DUP/Conservative deal has definitely shone a light on just how ridiculous NI politics really is (DUP and Sinn Fein especially.

However, going by the wording of the St. Andrews agreement:

Strategies relating to Irish language and Ulster Scots language etc

(1)The Executive Committee shall adopt a strategy setting out how it proposes to enhance and protect the development of the Irish language.
(2)The Executive Committee shall adopt a strategy setting out how it proposes to enhance and develop the Ulster Scots language, heritage and culture.

It is easy to see how they could wiggle out of this particular iteration of any Irish language act. Can claim to want a different strategy, less costly strategy etc etc. Basically just be politicians.

Personally speaking, I think that there would be much better uses for the types of money being quoted to implement and run any such language act. Coming from someone from NI who has zero interest in either language.

However, this language act has been turned into a political weapon now. Seems as if, as always, both sides more interested in points scoring than actually doing anything of substance.

To sum up, politics in NI is and looks set to remain, a complete joke.

So May, whose party oversaw the last massive increase in tuition fees, is now having a go at universities and the loan companies, saying they’re too expensive in a desperate attempt to win over young voters.

How stupid does she think young people are?

Safe subject Pr4wn....

She doesn't have to take sides like over Brexit..

Bless her when she gets off the fence on that one....Soft or Hard she is toast...

Yougov..

Lab 41 +2
Con 40 -3

The lead didn't last long..

Excellent news. Now they're attacking the good Friday agreement. Operation sell NI down the river commences.

Given that some Remainers have said we will all go back to killing each other if we leave the Customs Union, and Varadkar and Coveney's attempt to place a border in the Irish Sea (which actually *does* break the Belfast Agreement), I'd say what Hannan and Patterson said pales in significance.

I don't take too kindly to my country being used as a prop to thwart Brexit.

But you do appreciate it being used as a prop to force a hard Brexit?

Pr4wn wrote:So May, whose party oversaw the last massive increase in tuition fees, is now having a go at universities and the loan companies, saying they’re too expensive in a desperate attempt to win over young voters.

How stupid does she think young people are?

Well, how the **** else does she think they can fund themselves? Perhaps the Government might make sure they're adequately funded? Nah, thought not.

How would you like universities to be funded?

Ent wrote:How would you like universities to be funded?

Properly, and with enough cash to make them fit for purpose. Governments of all colours have been running them down for ages. So we have tuition fees @ £9,250 p/a with all the associated bleating about them.

What is properly and what would make them fit for purpose?

For any further public funding where would the money come from?

Half (or even two thirds) the University population should be out working as their 'courses' are only varnish to soothe the juvenile ego. The other half that actually need a University education would then have more resources to throw at them.

QED

So back the way it used to be?

Ent wrote:So back the way it used to be?

If it means less 'worthy' students binge drinking their parent's money away whilst reciting Hegel in the nude with only a flyer - about a shyte political play written by a 'genius' fresher - to cover their embarrassing modesty...then yes, back to the way it used to be.

With Nurses....Social care workers....Teachers all leaving their professions in droves because this Govt couldn't run a bath let alone anything else.

There should be plenty of jobs for those that decline degrees.

Perhaps not Teaching ones but you get the drift.

Ouch...someone saw themselves in a mirror and didn't like the portrait!

Nursing is also a degree career.

Ent wrote:Nursing is also a degree career.

The requirement of one for nursing is dumb in the extreme.

Ent wrote:What is properly and what would make them fit for purpose?

For any further public funding where would the money come from?

Properly is with enough so that there's a fighting chance of getting research funding for decent ideas. Properly is having enough to be able to pay staff properly, give them decent 21st century buildings to work in and with 21st century teaching infrastructure.

Where should the money come from? There's a case for a conversation about value added and general taxation that's avoided like the plague. Fees, even at the current level, aren't the evil they're made out to be. Graduate on ~£30k only pays back ~£37 p/m pre-tax. It's not 'debt' in any normal sense.
Who knows where it should come from? What's certain, however, is that Government and much of the public think HE is s**t and of no value whatsoever.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Ent wrote:Nursing is also a degree career.

The requirement of one for nursing is dumb in the extreme.

How so?

navyblueshorts wrote:

Ent wrote:Nursing is also a degree career.

The requirement of one for nursing is dumb in the extreme.

Why? Probably more important than most jobs.

SecretFly wrote:Ouch...someone saw themselves in a mirror and didn't like the portrait!

Yep..Moving on..

London Yougov poll..

Labour 54 +16
Con 28 +2

Wipe out if this is accurate..

navyblueshorts wrote: Graduate on ~£30k only pays back ~£37 p/m pre-tax.

It's quite a bit higher than that. £91 or £67 depending on when you finished. And it's definitely debt, the APR is higher than my mortgage.

Depends on the type of nurse as to whether you require a degree.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Depends on the type of nurse as to whether you require a degree.

Modern nursing tends to involve a lot more than wiping arses.

Also a lot of politics behind making nursing a degree career.

Your patronising tone is no substitute for losing the argument.

Nurses don't just work in hospitals Sunny..

London Yougov..

BAME voting intention..

Lab 78
Con 12

You are right many nurses don't work in hospitals.

Less support, less safety net for them - could do with a higher level of education really.

ICM

Con 41 -1
Lab 41 -1

UKIP 4 +2

They do better without a Leader it seems..

Ent wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Ent wrote:Nursing is also a degree career.

The requirement of one for nursing is dumb in the extreme.

How so?

Well, how about the fact that some of the best nurses who worked with my premature son (for ~14 months) didn't have a Degree and most freely admitted that they almost certainly wouldn't and/or couldn't have pursued a nursing career if it had been a 'must'. My mum (happily retired now; they couldn't pay her to go back and act as a consultant) and precisely none of her peers needed a Degree and they were, amazingly, pretty decent nurses. How on Earth could they possibly have managed it?
On the other hand, younger Degree-qualified nurses were too often obsessed with anything other than the actual patients - nowhere near all of course, but far too many. Oh no! Can't change a bedpan or help a patient actually eat. Far too qualified for that and way beneath my station...

I'm not saying don't opt for a Degree if a nursing student wants to go that way, but it shouldn't be an absolute for nursing.

Scottrf wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Ent wrote:Nursing is also a degree career.

The requirement of one for nursing is dumb in the extreme.

Why? Probably more important than most jobs.

Nonsense.

Scottrf wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote: Graduate on ~£30k only pays back ~£37 p/m pre-tax.

It's quite a bit higher than that. £91 or £67 depending on when you finished. And it's definitely debt, the APR is higher than my mortgage.

Basing it on the info here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-43112140

I'll take their word for it, unless you can clarify why they're wrong. The APR is an issue I'll agree.

Well my info is based on the current thresholds. So what people with the loans now will pay. Theirs is a future change and not for everybody.

Yeah, I can see the £67 p/m at the £21k threshold. I should know this, but is the newer £25k threshold not applicable to existing loanees?

I'm thinking it takes over from the 21k (Don't know for sure but they have raised the thresholds before), not the pre-2012.

Some Tory mp has just learned the hard way about libel laws..

What a dumb thing to write..

New poll has Labour's position on Brexit receiving only 24% support...

Yet they are still ahead in the poll

Which draws the obvious conclusion that domestic interests drive the Labour vote....

Added pressure on May to get a good deal...She can only give speeches for so long.....

They may look good on TV but sooner or later she has to get a deal....

Labour look like they can hold around 40% regardless of Brexit....Can the Tories ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:New poll has Labour's position on Brexit receiving only 24% support...

Yet they are still ahead in the poll

Which draws the obvious conclusion that domestic interests drive the Labour vote....

Added pressure on May to get a good deal...She can only give speeches for so long.....

They may look good on TV but sooner or later she has to get a deal....

Labour look like they can hold around 40% regardless of Brexit....Can the Tories ??

The local elections in May will be interesting and I am hoping a major wake up call, because I don't think that the Labour Brexit policy is entirely credible.

Corbyn isn't May (a huuuge plus) and he is a good public speaker, but he hasn't got much else going for him. 32 years in parliament prior to becoming Labour leader and nothing to show for it except a record for the most votes against his own party (and therefore most likely with the tories) and some questionable meetings with some questionable people with questionable timing.

He's offering people free stuff, I'm sure they'll poll well.

lostinwales wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:New poll has Labour's position on Brexit receiving only 24% support...

Yet they are still ahead in the poll

Which draws the obvious conclusion that domestic interests drive the Labour vote....

Added pressure on May to get a good deal...She can only give speeches for so long.....

They may look good on TV but sooner or later she has to get a deal....

Labour look like they can hold around 40% regardless of Brexit....Can the Tories ??

The local elections in May will be interesting and I am hoping a major wake up call, because I don't think that the Labour Brexit policy is entirely credible.

Corbyn isn't May (a huuuge plus) and he is a good public speaker, but he hasn't got much else going for him. 32 years in parliament prior to becoming Labour leader and nothing to show for it except a record for the most votes against his own party (and therefore most likely with the tories) and some questionable meetings with some questionable people with questionable timing.

At a time when his party grandees were more Tory than the Tories? So at least he stuck to his principles?

Ent wrote:He's offering people free stuff, I'm sure they'll poll well.

Grow up......Change your nasty little attitude..

Labour poll better with the middle class..............Tories are doing better with the struggling..

That is why Momentum are accused of being Champagne swilling types who are guilty about doing well..

lostinwales wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:New poll has Labour's position on Brexit receiving only 24% support...

Yet they are still ahead in the poll

Which draws the obvious conclusion that domestic interests drive the Labour vote....

Added pressure on May to get a good deal...She can only give speeches for so long.....

They may look good on TV but sooner or later she has to get a deal....

Labour look like they can hold around 40% regardless of Brexit....Can the Tories ??

The local elections in May will be interesting and I am hoping a major wake up call, because I don't think that the Labour Brexit policy is entirely credible.

Corbyn isn't May (a huuuge plus) and he is a good public speaker, but he hasn't got much else going for him. 32 years in parliament prior to becoming Labour leader and nothing to show for it except a record for the most votes against his own party (and therefore most likely with the tories) and some questionable meetings with some questionable people with questionable timing.

Some interesting points..

Elections tend to be more a reflection on the Governing party......the Local elections are also being held in metropolitan areas where Labour poll well...

Should think the NHS...........Rise in Foodbank use.......Rise in Homelessness and Standard of living drops should all help labour come out well...

Miliband got 31% in 2014.............I will be surprised if labour don't take 40%

40% should be the minimum requirement for Labour. It's mostly London and the Metropolitan areas up for grabs, after all, plus nearly 8 years of Tory leadership nationally. Plus, UKIP won't be eating into the Labour vote, unlike 2014. And YouGov has Labour at 42% nationally.

The key thing for Labour is to maximise turnout of their young voters. Do that well enough and they could be looking at a (probably unprecedented) 50% vote share.