Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

LionsV2 wrote:

Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant.  I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

He said you were “PIG IGNORANT”. I’ve heard of hard of hearing before but not hard of reading.

Duty281 wrote:40% should be the minimum requirement for Labour. It's mostly London and the Metropolitan areas up for grabs, after all, plus nearly 8 years of Tory leadership nationally. Plus, UKIP won't be eating into the Labour vote, unlike 2014. And YouGov has Labour at 42% nationally.

The key thing for Labour is to maximise turnout of their young voters. Do that well enough and they could be looking at a (probably unprecedented) 50% vote share.

Turnout is lower for Local elections and Libdems don't get squeezed as much.....Labour's performance in London is hiding their struggles elsewhere......I think there will be gains and losses for all three parties.....With the Tories cleaning up most of the 130 Ukip councillors...

Be interested in what happens in Kensington.....

Remember when Diane Abbott was assassinated by the media for forgetting a statistic, but Boris seems to have forgotten details of whats happened to £46m of taxpayers money he wasted on the Garden Bridge project and the MSM couldnt give a hoop?

Interesting.

The media is mainly right wing...

The personal stuff isn't working though...Corbyn got the James Bond treatment last week and went up 3 points..

Con 43
Labour 42.......

(ICM)

Two main parties can't seem to break the glue...Stuck together.

All the other Parties have disappeared..

Corbyn is effectively supporting the tories over brexit though

There could be (and I am hoping there will be) a major backlash over this.

Labour want no part of having to negotiate Brexit, let the Tories own it.

GSC wrote:Labour want no part of having to negotiate Brexit, let the Tories own it.

Corbyn is pro brexit to all intents and purposes, even if the bulk of his party is not

lostinwales wrote:Corbyn is effectively supporting the tories over brexit though

There could be (and I am hoping there will be) a major backlash over this.

Didn't help the lib dem ticket in the GE.

By elections have seen gains and losses for both parties.

Could be interesting.

lostinwales wrote:

GSC wrote:Labour want no part of having to negotiate Brexit, let the Tories own it.

Corbyn is pro brexit to all intents and purposes, even if the bulk of his party is not

Labour voters aren't as invested in Brexit as Tory voters....

A breakdown of the Labour vote at GE17....Had it way down the list behind...

1. NHS
2.Manifesto
3.Hate the Tories
4.Jeremy Corbyn
5. Fairer Country
6. Minimum Wage

They aren't happy with his position but it isn't a game changer..

He said he wanted a Custom's Union last week which some newspapers said was a betrayal of his leave voters.

Started the week on 42% and finished it on 42%

If we’re going to be lumped with Brexit either way I would still rather have corbyn running things. I trust him to lessen the damage as much as possible more than this current mob.

Is there a c. Other option. Don't really trust either.

GSC wrote:Is there a c. Other option. Don't really trust either.

There's always the Monster Raving Loony Party if a voter wants to promote sanity at the polling stations.

SecretFly wrote:

GSC wrote:Is there a c. Other option. Don't really trust either.

There's always the Monster Raving Loony Party if a voter wants to promote sanity at the polling stations.

Talking about UKIP apparently they are just about go bankrupt.

Bankruptcy is a badge of honour these days innit? You get to be President if you're really good at it.

Go easy on him.. His best mates from Britain First have just been chucked in the slammer

Jailed for Hate Crimes. Seems to me that half of America should join them in the slammer. Trump got no love given to him.

Now where to put a slammer that could house them all??? Hmmm.

Mexico!

The answer is always Mexico!

SecretFly wrote:

GSC wrote:Is there a c. Other option. Don't really trust either.

There's always the Monster Raving Loony Party if a voter wants to promote sanity at the polling stations.

I think these days the Monster Raving Loony Party should be suing the main two parties for copyright infringements.

Samo wrote:If we’re going to be lumped with Brexit either way I would still rather have corbyn running things. I trust him to lessen the damage as much as possible more than this current mob.

His biggest selling point is that he is not May. Apologies if I have been banging on about this too much but other than being a good public speaker (in direct contrast with May) and not being May he has nothing going for him.

Prior to his election to leader he had done nothing, despite being in parliament for 32 years. No positions at any point other than being a back bencher, and his most notable achievement being a record for voting against his own party more than any other MP in history, which logically means that he has in fact sided with the Tories hundreds of times. All he still does is nothing, and in so doing it feels that many people have projected their hopes onto him because there is no evidence that they will be disappointed

I do really feel that somehow our political system needs a major shake up, but Corbyn is not the man to deliver it. There are good politicians out there, but can't help feeling both main parties are dominated by mediocracies (being polite). We need to get better caliber people into politics.

I also wish there was more political buy in to PR, which is not something I would not have said until recently

lostinwales wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

GSC wrote:Is there a c. Other option. Don't really trust either.

There's always the Monster Raving Loony Party if a voter wants to promote sanity at the polling stations.

I think these days the Monster Raving Loony Party should be suing the main two parties for copyright infringements.

I like that, lost

lostinwales wrote:

Samo wrote:If we’re going to be lumped with Brexit either way I would still rather have corbyn running things. I trust him to lessen the damage as much as possible more than this current mob.

His biggest selling point is that he is not May. Apologies if I have been banging on about this too much but other than being a good public speaker (in direct contrast with May) and not being May he has nothing going for him.

Prior to his election to leader he had done nothing, despite being in parliament for 32 years. No positions at any point other than being a back bencher, and his most notable achievement being a record for voting against his own party more than any other MP in history, which logically means that he has in fact sided with the Tories hundreds of times. All he still does is nothing, and in so doing it feels that many people have projected their hopes onto him because there is no evidence that they will be disappointed

I do really feel that somehow our political system needs a major shake up, but Corbyn is not the man to deliver it. There are good politicians out there, but can't help feeling both main parties are dominated by mediocracies (being polite). We need to get better caliber people into politics.

I also wish there was more political buy in to PR, which is not something I would not have said until recently

You honestly trust May more? Really?

Pr4wn wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Samo wrote:If we’re going to be lumped with Brexit either way I would still rather have corbyn running things. I trust him to lessen the damage as much as possible more than this current mob.

His biggest selling point is that he is not May. Apologies if I have been banging on about this too much but other than being a good public speaker (in direct contrast with May) and not being May he has nothing going for him.

Prior to his election to leader he had done nothing, despite being in parliament for 32 years. No positions at any point other than being a back bencher, and his most notable achievement being a record for voting against his own party more than any other MP in history, which logically means that he has in fact sided with the Tories hundreds of times. All he still does is nothing, and in so doing it feels that many people have projected their hopes onto him because there is no evidence that they will be disappointed

I do really feel that somehow our political system needs a major shake up, but Corbyn is not the man to deliver it. There are good politicians out there, but can't help feeling both main parties are dominated by mediocracies (being polite). We need to get better caliber people into politics.

I also wish there was more political buy in to PR, which is not something I would not have said until recently

You honestly trust May more? Really?

Not at all, she's probably the worst PM in history.

But I really don't like having to choose between the worst PM in history and someone I have no confidence in whatsoever. It is just a really, incredibly crap choice.

Well, you kinda have to, so....

When Brexit bites Cameron will be the worst PM in history..

I prefer Corbyn to May..

A good natured fool beats an arrogant clueless plum.

Much much lesser of two evils - Jeremy Corbyn. At least he speaks sense about renationalising the railways amongst other things. The Tories are - well Tories. A party I will never vote for due to their morals and look after their own attitude where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Pr4wn wrote:Well, you kinda have to, so....

Well there were other parties once upon a time, I'll try and find one of those

lostinwales wrote:I do really feel that somehow our political system needs a major shake up

Absolutely it does. After we leave the EU, the battle to get PR installed and FPTP abolished (the only thing holding up the two failed parties at the top; well...that and money) really must begin, followed by the fight to get the House of Lords abolished.

lostinwales wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:Well, you kinda have to, so....

Well there were other parties once upon a time, I'll try and find one of those

Only two parties now..

Duty281 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:I do really feel that somehow our political system needs a major shake up

Absolutely it does. After we leave the EU, the battle to get PR installed and FPTP abolished (the only thing holding up the two failed parties at the top; well...that and money) really must begin, followed by the fight to get the House of Lords abolished.

Getting past the monumentally stupid idea of leaving the EU -

FPTP's only selling point is that it usually leads to a clear majority for a party to form a government. In theory this works because the elected MP's are still there to represent all of their constituents. Increasingly this isn't working (and you get anomalies like my Remain leaning area being represented by an ERG member). What we do have however is the House of Lords acting as a balance on some of the more stupid actions of parliament and a forum to debate some issues in more detail. It would be nice if we didn't need them, but I think for now we do.

I now believe PR would get more competition into parliament and allow a wider range of talent and views (and yes, having some of Duty's friends in there would probably be an unfortunate consequence but a necessary one if our parliament is to become more representative)

In fact if Brexit does go through we probably won't be able to afford the house of lords anyway

So what people want is a continuous grey Parliament, where the government is always compromised by being a coalition of so many colours that the grey always wins out?

The grey man going to work in a grey suit into a grey office, driving a grey car home to a grey wife with 2.4 grey kids.  Nobody offends anybody, nobody can afford to offend anybody.  If anybody is offended, the offender goes to a grey prison to live with a few grey inmates with nice grey thoughts themselves.  Nobody offends anybody in there either because everyone is happy that their lot is sharing power in a grey government building under grey skies.

Yep - humanity is dying.

lostinwales wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:I do really feel that somehow our political system needs a major shake up

Absolutely it does. After we leave the EU, the battle to get PR installed and FPTP abolished (the only thing holding up the two failed parties at the top; well...that and money) really must begin, followed by the fight to get the House of Lords abolished.

Getting past the monumentally stupid idea of leaving the EU -

FPTP's only selling point is that it usually leads to a clear majority for a party to form a government. In theory this works because the elected MP's are still there to represent all of their constituents. Increasingly this isn't working (and you get anomalies like my Remain leaning area being represented by an ERG member). What we do have however is the House of Lords acting as a balance on some of the more stupid actions of parliament and a forum to debate some issues in more detail. It would be nice if we didn't need them, but I think for now we do.

I now believe PR would get more competition into parliament and allow a wider range of talent and views (and yes, having some of Duty's friends in there would probably be an unfortunate consequence but a necessary one if our parliament is to become more representative)

In fact if Brexit does go through we probably won't be able to afford the house of lords anyway

Leaving the EU is an important part of the democratic shake-up; taking powers away from the European Commission and ensuring the Houses of Parliament is, once again, the supreme law-making body of the land.

The House of Lords is a perfect representation of the corruption and cronyism that exists in politics, hence why I think it should be abolished. PR would be wonderful as it would eliminate tactical voting and ensure that democracy in this country is as fair as possible.

And, be assured, none of my friends have ever tried to stand for Parliament! Fine, upstanding folk as they so obviously are.

Not quite as strong as Duty but the House of Lords definitely needs to be downsized, it's way too bloated.

I kinda like I elect an MP for my area under FPTP

GSC wrote:Not quite as strong as Duty but the House of Lords definitely needs to be downsized, it's way too bloated.

I kinda like I elect an MP for my area under FPTP

You still can do under PR. In the Scottish elections your first vote goes to who you want to be your constituency MSP and then your second vote is for a party. 'List MSP's' are then selected based on the number of second votes a party receives. List MSP's don't represent a particular constituency.

Tories lost all five seats last night in by elections..

Conversely...

IPSOS

Con 43 +2
Lab 42 +1
Lib 6 -1

Remember guys Breakfast is the most important meal of the day..

Not a good time to be a Lib dem...

From experience PR is easily the lesser of two evils. Its still got its flaws but FPTP is a relic and not a true reflection of democracy.

Im a fan of the STV system, although its a bit complicated I think it combines the best of both worlds.

Secret Fly, I think the Commons could do with a few Healy Rae style characters....

Corbyn sells out to the Russians and...

CON 42
LAB 39

Come on Labour get a decent leader and..

Conservative Party RIP

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn sells out to the Russians and...

CON 42
LAB 39

Come on Labour get a decent leader and..

Conservative Party RIP

Labour have far worse problems than the Tories at the moment.

The split is coming.

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn sells out to the Russians and...

CON 42
LAB 39

Come on Labour get a decent leader and..

Conservative Party RIP

Labour have far worse problems than the Tories at the moment.

The split is coming.

Nope....

YOUGOV ...Labour voters....Corbyn's position on Salisbury and Russia ??

Agree....38
Disagree 18
Don't know 44

Corbyn owns Labour..

A new Centrist Party gets tainted by Blair..

Corbyn has no problems.. Which is a shame because a new Leader nails it.

You'd have thought Labour would have learned from the Foot era.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn sells out to the Russians and...

CON 42
LAB 39

Come on Labour get a decent leader and..

Conservative Party RIP

Labour have far worse problems than the Tories at the moment.

The split is coming.

Nope....

YOUGOV ...Labour voters....Corbyn's position on Salisbury and Russia ??

Agree....38
Disagree 18
Don't know 44

Corbyn owns Labour..

A new Centrist Party gets tainted by Blair..

Corbyn has no problems.. Which is a shame because a new Leader nails it.

Yep...

Momentum control the Labour party now. When the so-called 'moderate' MPs (which still make up the bulk of the PLP) get deselected by the Momentum lot, such as Benn and maybe Chuka, a new party will spring up.

Momentum have 35,000 members out of 500,000..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Momentum have 35,000 members out of 500,000..

And Momentum candidates swept the last NEC Labour elections.

Honestly, UK politics is in such a dire place right now. I really feel sorry for you folks.

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Momentum have 35,000 members out of 500,000..

And Momentum candidates swept the last NEC Labour elections.

Because the rank and file Labour members voted for those candidates...

The members want a Left Labour Party....Momentum are left wing......

Labour's problem is you only get Left or Right (Corbyn or Blair).....................Perhaps if you got sensible people that had appeal to both sides the Party might do better..

There won't be MP deselections......Too bloody.

Some of the more hostile elements in the Blair group Progress might get it though..

Worrying when the State broadcaster that is supposed to be impartial is photoshopping pictures and putting Corbyn in front of the Kremlin.

Don't want to be going down this road.

Corbyn taking crap over Russia.....May talking crap over Brexit..

CON 42
LAB 40

May -9
Corbyn -10

I don't know where we are going.....

Never known politics so interesting.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-43463496

And people have the stones to complain that the BBC has Labour bias.

For a supposedly unbiased and impartial news corporation thats a bloody disgrace. Stick your license fee up your arse.

The bbc are the first media outlet to be biased for and against every side.

Bloody BBC making a Lenin cap look more Russian. Disgrace.

But I guess there is more evidence to rush to judgement that the BBC photoshopped a hat than a foreign nation deploying a nerve agent on British soil.