Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

LionsV2 wrote:

Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant.  I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

He said you were “PIG IGNORANT”. I’ve heard of hard of hearing before but not hard of reading.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Shocking week for the Tories.  

Con 44 +2
Lab 37 -2

I don't understand it..Perhaps this Islamophobia stuff is playing well with Ukipers..

Survation..

Con 41
Lab 40..... Survation has Corbyn in number 10 in a Coalition...Yougov has the Tories winning a landslide..

Yougov...Scot Independence..

Yes 41 +4
No 50

Brexit fiasco... Is making Scottish independence palatable to more people it seems.

In a separate poll Scots confidence rose on Scottish finances if independence happens. Also worth remembering was at the time of the announcement of the previous indy ref support stood at just below 30% for independence and ended up with 44.8%. This time polls will probably have support for independence at around 40% before campaigning.

Comres... Con 41...Lab 41
Ipsos.......Con 40...Lab 40
Opinion...Con 42..Lab 40
ICM........ Con 43..Lab 40
Survation.Con 41..Lab 40
BMG.........Con 39...Lab 39

Yougov.....Con 44...Lab 37..

Time for Yougov to rework its model perhaps..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Comres... Con 41...Lab 41
Ipsos.......Con  40...Lab 40
Opinion...Con   42..Lab 40
ICM........  Con  43..Lab 40
Survation.Con  41..Lab 40
BMG.........Con 39...Lab 39

Yougov.....Con 44...Lab 37..

Time for Yougov to rework its model perhaps..

Doesn't hide the fact that Lab trail the Cons, just the degree of magnitude.

Four of the Polls put Corbyn in Downing Street...

Albeit with the SNP...

PMQ's is worth a watch this week. The shambolic treatment of the SNP aside, its the first time in a while Corbyn has looked like he has what it takes. May is on a shoogley peg. I'd bet the only reason she hasnt been removed yet it so she can balls up Brexit so Mogg, Johnson et al can deflect blame to her.

SNP walk out was Bollox...Stays on his feet he knows he gets the boot....Obviously planned.

Just seen it though...Good TV.

Should happen every week.

Lets just look at this all. Brexit is the biggest constitutional issue in years and will impact Scotland. Westminster gave Scottish MP's 15 yes FIFTEEN minutes to discuss this and strategically gave first word to a Scottish Tory who waffled on about nothing for several minutes to kill time. And May today showed herself up as a liar. The 1998 Scotland Act agreed by both Holyrood and Westminster and then bolstered in 2014 after the indyref no verdict was returned states all devolved powers will be returned to HOLYROOD. Not diverted via Westminster and transport aboard a bus seven years later to Holyrood but devolved immediately to Holyrood.

Usual embarrassment from the SNP. Enjoyed Tim Farron's comments about it being an 'choreographed hissy-fit'.

What exactly are they supposed to do though? The Tories deliberately silenced them. They have to protest somehow.

Pr4wn wrote:What exactly are they supposed to do though? The Tories deliberately silenced them. They have to protest somehow.

Precisely. I am gobsmacked (well not really) that people refuse to accept what is a blatant Westminster power grab. The 1998 Scotland Act (agreed to by the then Labour government) and then after the 2014 indyref by Cameron and the other Westminster parties promised devolved powers would return immediately to Holyrood. And right now that is not going to happen. To all the die-hard unionists here I ask you is that fair going against legal agreements?

Duty281 wrote:Usual embarrassment from the SNP. Enjoyed Tim Farron's comments about it being an 'choreographed hissy-fit'.

Bercow told Blackford “You can have a vote now or at the end of session” Blackford said now and Bercow refuses. What was he meant to do? Bend over and take it? Im not an SNP man anymore but Im glad to see them sticking up for whats best for us.

Samo wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Usual embarrassment from the SNP. Enjoyed Tim Farron's comments about it being an 'choreographed hissy-fit'.

Bercow told Blackford “You can have a vote now or at the end of session”  Blackford said now and Bercow refuses. What was he meant to do? Bend over and take it?  Im not an SNP man anymore but Im glad to see them sticking up for whats best for us.

And the reason why he said have it now is because he knew as soon as PMQT had finished the rest of the house would have emptied and not voted negated it totally.

Tend to agree with you on this one Craig. Amazing eh?

I see the PM has reneged on her promise on the meaningful vote to the "rebels.."

If they had Bollox....It would only take 15 of them to get rid of her next Wednesday....Factoring in she gets 5 Labour rebels like last time..

Like I said they have been played and will accept it.

The SNP has now picked up 7500 new members since the effective ripping up of the devolution agreement by Westminster. A staunch No journalist from the last indyref now backs independence and Gordon Brown is messing his pants as he comes out and claims independence would mean austerity until Doomsday. Note he is using only negatives for his point and never mentioned what was the benefit of remaining in the UK.

You make independence sound like pots of golds and rainbows..

Little bit of Oil...Gas....Whisky..and Fishing is going to have to go a long long way..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You make independence sound like pots of golds and rainbows..

Little bit of Oil...Gas....Whisky..and Fishing is going to have to go a long long way..

I have said it before and will say it again. For years after it independence will mean Scots tightening in their belts. No doubt. However, we have lived through deep depressions before and lived to tell the tale. And again I will dispel the myth that independence backers are not anti-English but anti-Westminster. Those that back independence want the chance to choose their own government to totally run their country. They want the chance to decide unequivocally for themselves on issues such as the EU which there is no way that happens at present. This union we are shackled in is touted as a union of equals - the last few days have shown it is not a union of equals at all.

For me, the political and cultural divide between the Scots and the English has never been wider. I can't really see any compatibility at all anymore.

Pr4wn wrote:For me, the political and cultural divide between the Scots and the English has never been wider. I can't really see any compatibility at all anymore.

Precisely. Scotland has its own legal system and own political beliefs that differ from England to the greatest degree. Scotland's voice will never be heard in Westminster.

In recent decades the Tories have been a minority party in Scotland yet we have had to endure a Tory government. The Brexit issue is the straw that broke the camels back.

Britain has seen austerity for 8 years...Why voluntarily sign up for more.

Peoples lives come before Patriotism..

Not sure you can self sustain....Remain unconvinced.

You're not Scottish though, are you? Honestly, I think it's hard for anyone who's not Scottish to understand. You're supposed to be part of a United Kingdom but your political representatives in Parliament are being marginalized and ignored.

Pr4wn wrote:You're not Scottish though, are you? Honestly, I think it's hard for anyone who's not Scottish to understand. You're supposed to be part of a United Kingdom but your political representatives in Parliament are being marginalized and ignored.

Exactly.

When devolution was passed in the late 1990s one party voted against it - the Tories. And now they have effectively ended it with flagrant disregard of key issues in it. The power grab is for a simple reason - to strengthen Westminster's hand and weaken Holyrood's - and what government do we have doing that? A Tory one.

Lets remember that not just the SNP but the Scottish Labour, Scottish Lib Dems, The Greens and yes even the Scottish Tories voted against this EU Withdrawl Bill at Holyrood. The Scottish Tories then responded when May pulled their strings and to hell with their Scottish consituents they then voted to back the bill at Westminster. Says it all really.

In short the Scottish Parliament voted unaminously against this bill and that is needed (or supposed to be) for the bill to proceed but proceed it will.

Pr4wn wrote:You're not Scottish though, are you? Honestly, I think it's hard for anyone who's not Scottish to understand. You're supposed to be part of a United Kingdom but your political representatives in Parliament are being marginalized and ignored.

The people in the latest independence poll are though..

Yes 41%
No 50%...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Pr4wn wrote:You're not Scottish though, are you? Honestly, I think it's hard for anyone who's not Scottish to understand. You're supposed to be part of a United Kingdom but your political representatives in Parliament are being marginalized and ignored.

The people in the latest independence poll are though..

Yes 41%
No 50%...

But thst poll was taken BEFORE this latest debacle. Since that poll we have seen an upsurge in people joining the SNP, a noted journalist who was a staunch no in 2014 now in favour of independence and basically people seeing that Scotland means nothing to Westminster accept from what it can grab in powers.

Let's be honest about a couple of things, Truss.

First, polls are not an accurate reflection of real sentiment. The last goodness-knows how many elections have demonstrated that.

Secondly, England and Scotland are drifting further apart politically every day. I honestly can't see this ending any other way, especially once the Brexit poop-show really starts to unfold. I don't think it's a matter of if independence happens, but when.

Pr4wn wrote:Let's be honest about a couple of things, Truss.

First, polls are not an accurate reflection of real sentiment. The last goodness-knows how many elections have demonstrated that.

Secondly, England and Scotland are drifting further apart politically every day. I honestly can't see this ending any other way, especially once the Brexit poop-show really starts to unfold. I don't think it's a matter of if independence happens, but when.

Spot on.

In the Thatcher years in the 80s support for independence stood around 20%. Since then it has steadily grown to what we saw at last indyref of 45%.

Stats from the last ref showed that 70% of the younger generation wete pro-independence and 70% of older generation were against it. The younger generation are the ones with the future voice. Now can you honestly tell me Truss that the way Brexit is being handled is going to convince more or less people to vote no if there is another indyref?

This is why I dont agree with devolution. All in or all out.

Samo wrote:This is why I dont agree with devolution. All in or all out.

I suppose that depends on how you look at it. Westminster-rule is the problem. Devolution loosened the ties and gags on Scottish mouths. On the other hand you could say it created more situations that you have now - a conflict of interests. One countries politicians want one thing and the other wants another. But what must be remembered is that this is supposed to be 'a union of equals'. Westminster alone politically is a lie to that. In major voting on major issues Scotland's voice will never get heard due to the set up at Westminster and that will always be the case.

While I don't think Scotland going alone is a good idea I have no doubts on the back of Brexit....It will have its independence in the next ten years...

Scotland overwhelmingly voted in...

Big crowds at that Corbyn festival it seems...According to the media they had sold three tickets..

Have been following the Corbyn festival on Twitter, has sparked quite a funny accusation-flinging session between the pros and the antis.  The staunch followers are claiming 13 000 attendance, though that seems to be a bit optimistic and more to do with how many tickets were sold and given away.  The anti-Corbyn brigade are claiming a few hundred, the reality is 2 000-3 000 which is either an incredible triumph or a tragic disaster depending on which side of the fence you sit.

Have seen photographs from the beginning when Levi Roots was singing (???) to a few dozen and others showing a packed crowd though anyone who's been to a gig or has an ability to estimate mathematically will know that the amount is nowhere near what is being claimed.
But whatever your take, it's all a good exercise in don't believe everything you see and hear.

Guess I'm going to be shelling out some more for this 20 billion NHS present.....I don't mind..

So much for Austerity.....I guess the last 8 years of tightening the purse strings was needless..

Theresa May makes John Major look like Abraham Lincoln..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guess I'm going to be shelling out some more for this 20 billion NHS present.....I don't mind..

So much for Austerity.....I guess the last 8 years of tightening the purse strings was needless..

Theresa May makes John Major look like Abraham Lincoln..

And it just proves the lengths this Tory government will go to hide the truth. This money is NOT coming from any EU exit deal but May clearly claims it is. I have said it before and will say it again:- You know when a Tory lies when their lips move.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guess I'm going to be shelling out some more for this 20 billion NHS present.....I don't mind..

So much for Austerity.....I guess the last 8 years of tightening the purse strings was needless..

Theresa May makes John Major look like Abraham Lincoln..

And it just proves the lengths this Tory government will go to hide the truth. This money is NOT coming from any EU exit deal but May clearly claims it is. I have said it before and will say it again:- You know when a Tory lies when their lips move.

They're claiming it's coming from three sources: a 'Brexit dividend' (i.e. the net £8.5 billion or so given to the EU every year, although this will take a few years to free up), economic growth and more taxes.

But since the government, post-Brexit, will almost certainly lose more than the £8.5 billion it gains, that's either a heck of a lot of economic growth or a heck of a lot more taxes.

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guess I'm going to be shelling out some more for this 20 billion NHS present.....I don't mind..

So much for Austerity.....I guess the last 8 years of tightening the purse strings was needless..

Theresa May makes John Major look like Abraham Lincoln..

And it just proves the lengths this Tory government will go to hide the truth. This money is NOT coming from any EU exit deal but May clearly claims it is. I have said it before and will say it again:- You know when a Tory lies when their lips move.

They're claiming it's coming from three sources: a 'Brexit dividend' (i.e. the net £8.5 billion or so given to the EU every year, although this will take a few years to free up), economic growth and more taxes.

Not yesterday on the Andrew Marr Show. She spoke solely of this Brexit Dividend paying for it and today she has been forced to adjust that. I am flabberghasted at how many lies a PM can get away with without retribution. That includes lies/false promises to those in her own party.

Could you imagine if Labour came up with a completely speculative, uncosted announcement like that? You'd have hallowing cries of "clueless unelectables" and "Magic money trees".

The thing is this government have been at it from the start. As soon as they were elected May refused to pay nurses a wage rise saying there was no magic money tree. And hours later she payed the DUP £2  billion for propping them up. Given that party's history I shudder to think what that money was spent on.

CaledonianCraig wrote:And hours later she payeed the DUP £2  billion for propping them up. Given that party's hostory I shudder to think what that money was spent on.

Good grief, this money (£1 billion) was invested in Northern Ireland itself, its infrastructure and such like, not given to a political party.

Pr4wn wrote:Could you imagine if Labour came up with a completely speculative, uncosted announcement like that? You'd have hallowing cries of "clueless unelectables" and "Magic money trees".

There's been plenty of criticism of it (rightly so). Can't exactly call them 'clueless unelectables', though. Just 'clueless'...yes!

Duty281 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:And hours later she payeed the DUP £2  billion for propping them up. Given that party's hostory I shudder to think what that money was spent on.

Good grief, this money (£1 billion) was invested in Northern Ireland itself, its infrastructure and such like, not given to a political party.

Regardless it was money that the government had hours earlier claimed they didn't have with the famous no magic money tree speech.

But Magic money is by definition money that's not there but that can turn up with the swipe of a wand.

That's the very definition. There's no rabbit in the hat..... oh yes there is.

Ah, the magic money tree. Or the Bradbury Pound.

Does Corbyn still support the Bradbury Pound, I wonder? Or did it disappear like his opposition to the EU?

I am frankly staggered that anyone still feels the desire to stand up for a Tory government involved in lies and scandals and downright disgraceful antics. It has been going on since the very start with no magic money tree to pay nurses and then pulling over a billion pounds out of the air to buy the DUP support. We have had the Windrush scandal woefully handled and the Grenfell Disaster which by all accounts was a tragedy waiting to happen. Residents of those flats had pointed out the fire risk it was and pleaded for sprinklers to be fitted etc but fell on death ears with the Tory council. We have had the abysmal handling of Brexit. We have had the underhanded 'behind closed doors' bartering for votes to bail them out then backtracking. We have seen their flagrant disregard for Scotland and the 1998 Scotland Act in 1998 where they are basically ripping up that devolution agreement with their power grab and then the disgusting behaviour in Parliament giving a miserly 30 minutes to discuss the Withdrawal Bill and affect on Scotland half an hour to discuss and gave first chance to speak to a non-Scottish Tory who it had jack to do with who waffled for over 10 minutes to deliberately take away discussion time for the bill.

Do I sense some antipathy towards the Tories, Craig? Not that I really disagree, mind you.

navyblueshorts wrote:Do I sense some antipathy towards the Tories, Craig? Not that I really disagree, mind you.

Well I just find it infuriating that these people are allowed to carry on in the highest paid jobs unquestioned when causing utter misery to so many people and having a hand in deaths. Really is nauseating.

i could never vote Conservative.....Trickle down Economics just doesn't get the job done....

So Boris runs away from the new runway vote after personally promising to lay down in front of the bulldozers before they build a new runway.

If you believe anything this man promises, you must be a complete idiot.

Mexico has elected a left wing President....

May result in less illegals trying to get into the US.

No such thing as middle class in Mexico....Just rich and poor..

Read my lips....Plenty of new Taxes coming.

Pr4wn wrote:So Boris runs away from the new runway vote after personally promising to lay down in front of the bulldozers before they build a new runway.

If you believe anything this man promises, you must be a complete idiot.

You're right! I wasted months of my life learning to be a bulldozer driver specialising in runway construction. Oh well, back to the day job as 606 Political Analyst.