Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

LionsV2 wrote:

Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant.  I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

He said you were “PIG IGNORANT”. I’ve heard of hard of hearing before but not hard of reading.

TNS/Kantar

Macron approval rating..

Approve 32
Disapprove 64

Minus 32...

Ouch..

If England get through to the final. Will certain politicians forget what they said months earlier, and try and get tickets.
They seem to with regards most other things.

Luke wrote:If England get through to the final. Will certain politicians forget what they said months earlier, and try and get tickets.
They seem to with regards most other things.

Well Gary Lineker, not quite a politician, forgot what he said quickly enough.

Politics has died a terrible death with the resignation of Boris the Great.

I think he should start his campaign to be King instantly. If he can't win a vote he should get what he wants by decree.

Duty281 wrote:

Luke wrote:If England get through to the final. Will certain politicians forget what they said months earlier, and try and get tickets.
They seem to with regards most other things.

Well Gary Lineker, not quite a politician, forgot what he said quickly enough.

To tell the truth, I wouldn't want to win the world cup this year.  It's actually kind of embarrassing to be still in it.  The others will be laughing: "Ha! Ha!!!  You won the WC?  How could you avoid it?  All the rest of us (Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Italy etc) took our summer holidays early this year.  Best summer in yonks!"

2 more conservative mps resign. Ben Bradley and Emila Colfield who are conservative Chairs.

Their's either now got to be either a vote of confidence in May, and if she wins than shut up.
Or a General Election.

Untenable position. But the Tories won’t rush to a GE.

Think your right there duty.
And I don't think Labour would want one. Let the tories own this mess while continuing to tear themselves apart. Then come in, and you could have a free Regin while trying to sort this all out.

Luke wrote:Think your right there duty.
And I don't think Labour would want one. Let the tories own this mess  while continuing to tear themselves apart. Then come in, and you could have a free Regin while trying to sort this all out.

What concerns me about this strategy is that it is putting party political expediency ahead of the health of the country, which is one of the things that we are (rightly) condemning the tories for.

lostinwales wrote:

Luke wrote:Think your right there duty.
And I don't think Labour would want one. Let the tories own this mess  while continuing to tear themselves apart. Then come in, and you could have a free Regin while trying to sort this all out.

What concerns me about this strategy is that it is putting party political expediency ahead of the health of the country, which is one of the things that we are (rightly) condemning the tories for.

Agree.
But that's what modern politics seems to be about. Partly this is down to the electorate who tend to stick with what they know. Till it becomes to bad, or its to bigger a f*** up.
Partly it's down to MPS, who will just say anything to get/keep in power, and lack fibre or morals.
And it's partly down to the parties. Who as I said, would just rather try and pick up the pieces and get to stay in power that way, rather than put the country first.
And partly it's the fact that MPS aren't held to account for the mess they're making by parties. And just get to carry on (ie Chris Grayling who would have been fired in any other job).

I read all the manifesto's then vote, rather than just for whoever my family voted for. But very few people do that know,
So as much as the parties are to blame, the electorate is also for this way of politics. If more people voted, then the MPS would have to do what they say, rather than this apathy that let's them get away with this.

Luke wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Luke wrote:Think your right there duty.
And I don't think Labour would want one. Let the tories own this mess  while continuing to tear themselves apart. Then come in, and you could have a free Regin while trying to sort this all out.

What concerns me about this strategy is that it is putting party political expediency ahead of the health of the country, which is one of the things that we are (rightly) condemning the tories for.

Agree.
But that's what modern politics seems to be about. Partly this is down to the electorate who tend to stick with what they know. Till it becomes to bad, or its to bigger a f*** up.
Partly it's down to MPS, who will just say anything to get/keep in power, and lack fibre or morals.
And it's partly down to the parties. Who as I said, would just rather try and pick up the pieces and get to stay in power that way, rather than put the country first.
And partly it's the fact that MPS aren't held to account for the mess they're making by parties. And just get to carry on (ie Chris Grayling who would have been fired in any other job).

I read all the manifesto's then vote, rather than just for whoever my family voted for. But very few people do that know,
So as much as the parties are to blame,  the electorate is also for this way of politics. If more people voted, then the MPS would have to do what they say, rather than this apathy that let's them get away with this.

Or if more people showed their disdain for the Tories and Labour and took their votes elsewhere instead of voting for them regardless of their monumental faux pas in recent times.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Luke wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Luke wrote:Think your right there duty.
And I don't think Labour would want one. Let the tories own this mess  while continuing to tear themselves apart. Then come in, and you could have a free Regin while trying to sort this all out.

What concerns me about this strategy is that it is putting party political expediency ahead of the health of the country, which is one of the things that we are (rightly) condemning the tories for.

Agree.
But that's what modern politics seems to be about. Partly this is down to the electorate who tend to stick with what they know. Till it becomes to bad, or its to bigger a f*** up.
Partly it's down to MPS, who will just say anything to get/keep in power, and lack fibre or morals.
And it's partly down to the parties. Who as I said, would just rather try and pick up the pieces and get to stay in power that way, rather than put the country first.
And partly it's the fact that MPS aren't held to account for the mess they're making by parties. And just get to carry on (ie Chris Grayling who would have been fired in any other job).

I read all the manifesto's then vote, rather than just for whoever my family voted for. But very few people do that know,
So as much as the parties are to blame,  the electorate is also for this way of politics. If more people voted, then the MPS would have to do what they say, rather than this apathy that let's them get away with this.

Or if more people showed their disdain for the Tories and Labour and took their votes elsewhere instead of voting for them regardless of their monumental faux pas in recent times.

Conveniently forgetting that those people might actually agree with what those parties do. We get that you don't.

navyblueshorts wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Luke wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Luke wrote:Think your right there duty.
And I don't think Labour would want one. Let the tories own this mess  while continuing to tear themselves apart. Then come in, and you could have a free Regin while trying to sort this all out.

What concerns me about this strategy is that it is putting party political expediency ahead of the health of the country, which is one of the things that we are (rightly) condemning the tories for.

Agree.
But that's what modern politics seems to be about. Partly this is down to the electorate who tend to stick with what they know. Till it becomes to bad, or its to bigger a f*** up.
Partly it's down to MPS, who will just say anything to get/keep in power, and lack fibre or morals.
And it's partly down to the parties. Who as I said, would just rather try and pick up the pieces and get to stay in power that way, rather than put the country first.
And partly it's the fact that MPS aren't held to account for the mess they're making by parties. And just get to carry on (ie Chris Grayling who would have been fired in any other job).

I read all the manifesto's then vote, rather than just for whoever my family voted for. But very few people do that know,
So as much as the parties are to blame,  the electorate is also for this way of politics. If more people voted, then the MPS would have to do what they say, rather than this apathy that let's them get away with this.

Or if more people showed their disdain for the Tories and Labour and took their votes elsewhere instead of voting for them regardless of their monumental faux pas in recent times.

Conveniently forgetting that those people might actually agree with what those parties do. We get that you don't.

No I'd say it is more a case because there is nobody else available to vote for. I wouldn't call a party who are no further down the line after two years on what to do about Brexit appealing or worthy of anything but disdain. Remembering that this party is the same one who sat back and allowed Grenfell Tower to go without crucial fire alarms and sprinklers which would have prevented massive loss of life as well as removing death trap cladding. And lest we forget how they lied about no magic money tree but it flowered from somewhere to pay the DUP for its support instead of paying a long overdue wage increase to nurses. The same party that played a major part in the Windrush debacle that evicted people wrongfully from the country. Meanwhile, the opposition - Labour are no more appealing to voters eithers. Says it all.

You think that. Those that vote for these parties either know about, and agree with, them or have priorities that align with the majority of what they propose. Bit like Trump etc - probably don't like all of what they do/say, but they might address ones priorities, at least on paper, better than the others.

You'll have to accept that people don't see the World as you do I'm afraid.

navyblueshorts wrote:You think that. Those that vote for these parties either know about, and agree with, them or have priorities that align with the majority of what they propose. Bit like Trump etc - probably don't like all of what they do/say, but they might address ones priorities, at least on paper, better than the others.

You'll have to accept that people don't see the World as you do I'm afraid.

My point is they are where they are (in terms of support) because there is no other palatible options out there (in parts of the UK). Do Tories or Labour offer any particularly ground-breaking and forward thinking policies? Well that is up to you and others to decide. One thing is sure from all my travelling across the UK, trawling through social media and watching public reaction on TV etc that MP's are certainly not the flavour of the month by any means - in fact most are looked upon in disdain.

Survation...Scottish independence

Yes 47
No 53..

Said it before Brexit will lead to Scotland becoming independent..

18 point difference six months ago..

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Luke wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Luke wrote:Think your right there duty.
And I don't think Labour would want one. Let the tories own this mess  while continuing to tear themselves apart. Then come in, and you could have a free Regin while trying to sort this all out.

What concerns me about this strategy is that it is putting party political expediency ahead of the health of the country, which is one of the things that we are (rightly) condemning the tories for.

Agree.
But that's what modern politics seems to be about. Partly this is down to the electorate who tend to stick with what they know. Till it becomes to bad, or its to bigger a f*** up.
Partly it's down to MPS, who will just say anything to get/keep in power, and lack fibre or morals.
And it's partly down to the parties. Who as I said, would just rather try and pick up the pieces and get to stay in power that way, rather than put the country first.
And partly it's the fact that MPS aren't held to account for the mess they're making by parties. And just get to carry on (ie Chris Grayling who would have been fired in any other job).

I read all the manifesto's then vote, rather than just for whoever my family voted for. But very few people do that know,
So as much as the parties are to blame,  the electorate is also for this way of politics. If more people voted, then the MPS would have to do what they say, rather than this apathy that let's them get away with this.

Or if more people showed their disdain for the Tories and Labour and took their votes elsewhere instead of voting for them regardless of their monumental faux pas in recent times.

At least up in scotland you have a realistic alternative. Where I live I am lucky enough that I can vote Lib Dem and have a good chance of deposing a useless ERG tory boy, but in most of England the choice is between dumb and dumber

CaledonianCraig wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:You think that. Those that vote for these parties either know about, and agree with, them or have priorities that align with the majority of what they propose. Bit like Trump etc - probably don't like all of what they do/say, but they might address ones priorities, at least on paper, better than the others.

You'll have to accept that people don't see the World as you do I'm afraid.

My point is they are where they are (in terms of support) because there is no other palatible options out there (in parts of the UK). Do Tories or Labour offer any particularly ground-breaking and forward thinking policies? Well that is up to you and others to decide. One thing is sure from all my travelling across the UK, trawling through social media and watching public reaction on TV etc that MP's are certainly not the flavour of the month by any means - in fact most are looked upon in disdain.

We end up voting one side because the other side scares us more. Appalling time for politics and we do need to find a way to revitalise the system. I finally think PR might be a good thing, and I wish we had more politicians who have had at least a stab at a career doing something else, some actual life experience outside of London, not career political yes men, or a few months as a failed primary school teacher like my MP.

Of course some form of PR would be a good thing, but it suits neither of the major UK parties and whomever is in Government got there via FPTP, so why would they support a PR system? It stinks.

Not that I'm remotely a fan of UKIP, but in the 2015 election, they polled something like ~3.9m votes for a single MP and the SNP polled ~1.5m for 56 seats. The current system stinks to high Heaven.

PR is greyed out thinking...and take it from someone who knows.  Eventually all PR Parliaments become compromises on Promises made during Election Campaigning.  Eventually there comes a point when no party needs to stand by any of the commitments they made to the public as they have the excuse of stability required, coalition governments needed, compromises inevitable, Election Manifestos binned.     (A bit like Brexit negotiations, you might say)

With PR...maybe it's not all bad (it's a sytem - so take you pick) ---  but it's also a ripe hunting ground for lazy career politicians with no true convictions or principles.  Cough something onto a pamphlet sheet, get elected on a few lies about "never compromising", then finding many avenues for compromise to form that Needed coalition and get that neat and vacuous talk-shop job.

Maybe there's truth in that, but compromise isn't necessarily a bad thing. FPTP hardly produces politicians who adhere to manifesto promises.

navyblueshorts wrote:Maybe there's truth in that, but compromise isn't necessarily a bad thing. FPTP hardly produces politicians who adhere to manifesto promises.

You do get to the point though.... and as I say, believe me, I'd guess I've voted much more often than most people here in my life so far (another consequence of PR)...but it does get to the point that you feel genuinely that you don't want to vote for any of the four, five or six parties that usually mix it up in post-election 'negotiations'.  They all let you down too seriously - you're human, and you remember.  You really do have difficulty finding some names to actually give any votes to after decades of electioneering lies and complete-turn-around compromising.

I vote for everybody nowadays ie at the polling station, I cross every box on the ballot paper. Count that you feckers!

lostinwales wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:You think that. Those that vote for these parties either know about, and agree with, them or have priorities that align with the majority of what they propose. Bit like Trump etc - probably don't like all of what they do/say, but they might address ones priorities, at least on paper, better than the others.

You'll have to accept that people don't see the World as you do I'm afraid.

My point is they are where they are (in terms of support) because there is no other palatible options out there (in parts of the UK). Do Tories or Labour offer any particularly ground-breaking and forward thinking policies? Well that is up to you and others to decide. One thing is sure from all my travelling across the UK, trawling through social media and watching public reaction on TV etc that MP's are certainly not the flavour of the month by any means - in fact most are looked upon in disdain.

We end up voting one side because the other side scares us more. Appalling time for politics and we do need to find a way to revitalise the system. I finally think PR might be a good thing, and I wish we had more politicians who have had at least a stab at a career doing something else, some actual life experience outside of London, not career political yes men, or a few months as a failed primary school teacher like my MP.

I believe my MP is AC.
Certainly something with a capital "c".

Let's face it. We're all represented by bloody idiots mostly. Exactly the same down here in the antipodes... bunch of tossers the lot of them.

The hardest thing is to choose one out of a vast array of pathetic, idiotic or completely hopeless or crooked candidates. It's a worldwide scourge.

The very few good ones in the background of these parties are either suppressed by others or they can't get enough traction to get into the media spotlight and therefore the public eye for whatever reason. But there's always a chance that someone great gets a lucky break and shines through.

Let's hope so anyway.

Jacob Rees Mogg gone from 3rd to Favourite to replace Theresa May..

Just what the country needs. A far right candidate v a far left candidate.

Mogg isn't far right....Corbyn isn't far left..

UKIP up to 8% on the latest Opinium poll.

All Theresa's fault.

Fair point Truss.

Wonder how the media will treat Mogg if he gets it. Given his beliefs, after how they treat Farron. Long way to go yet.

What do u kip actually stand for now, what are there aims? Serious question as I live in an area the north were there was no UKIP representation?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Survation...Scottish independence

Yes 47
No  53..

Said it before Brexit will lead to Scotland becoming independent..

18 point difference six months ago..

This was an unusual type of poll as it apparently disregarded don't knows from the end result. Still it follows a trend where I think in the last two or three polls the yes vote has been rising.

Also Scottish Election poll this week has seen the SNP vote share rise by 3% with the Scottish Tories and Scottish Labour dropping by 2%. It is said if that held true at the next election the SNP would pick up another 9 seats with the Tories and Labour losing seats.

Luke wrote:What do u kip actually stand for now, what are there aims? Serious question as I live in an area the north were there was no UKIP representation?

Brexit.

Duty281 wrote:

Luke wrote:What do u kip actually stand for now, what are there aims? Serious question as I live in an area the north were there was no UKIP representation?

Brexit.

Is that it? Still.

Their version of Brexit. You know, the one that was specified in great detail in the referendum question and thus gave UKIP everything they asked for, as it is 'the will of the people'.

Oh, you mean the one that included the £352 million we allegedly pay the eu going into the health service a week.

Yeah, the one where Farage said afterwards, well, maybe we will all be worse off financially after all.

Luke wrote:Oh, you mean the one that included the £352 million we allegedly pay the eu going into the health service a week.

No, UKIP were not part of Vote Leave.

Luke wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Luke wrote:What do u kip actually stand for now, what are there aims? Serious question as I live in an area the north were there was no UKIP representation?

Brexit.

Is that it? Still.

No, they have a wide range of policies (and have done since early 2015).

So what are there other policies? Again this is a serious question.

Luke wrote:So what are there other policies? Again this is a serious question.

Well you can take a look at UKIP's 2017 manifesto here:

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ukipdev/pages/3944/attachments/original/1495695469/UKIP_Manifesto_June2017opt.pdf?1495695469

Thanks.

Duty281 wrote:UKIP up to 8% on the latest Opinium poll.

All Theresa's fault.

Seats like Mansfield with tiny majorities for the Tories are "Leave" seats...

The Tories don't need a UKIP revival...

Only one poll mind....But if they hang around 6-7%...

I think she will need to change her plan considerably..

Looks like she's going to cave. How on earth can we expect her to negotiate with the EU when she can't even keep her own party under control?

Spot on...Only thing she has been concerned about since the Election is stays of Execution.

To heck with everything else.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Spot on...Only thing she has been concerned about since the Election is stays of Execution.

To heck with everything else.

Pretty much the only person she can rely on in parliament right now is good old JC.

Not sure she can get out of this one..

Pr4wn wrote:Looks like she's going to cave. How on earth can we expect her to negotiate with the EU when she can't even keep her own party under control?

.
It's not just the EU though. It's also the deals to replace what is happening after Brexit.

After Brandon Lewis broke pairing rules to vote on the Brexit issue, it now turns out that chief whip told all the other paired Tories to break pairing rules as it was going to be a close vote - thankfully they declined.

Shameful behavior from the Tories. Both Brandon Lewis and Julian Smith are in contempt of parliament and should resign or be sacked. But as McVey showed earlier in the month, its perfectly fine to lie to parliament.

Disgusting party. I’ve no idea how anyone can vote for them now.

HS2 ballooning to an 80 billion cost....Shocking waste..

Yougov head to head matches...Labour v Con under different leaders..

Corbyn 38
Johnson 38

Corbyn 39
May 38

Corbyn 40
Mogg 35

Corbyn 40
Gove 30...

Perhaps don't write off Boris yet.


Corbyn 39
May 38

I don't like him, but it's obvious that Boris could win new Tory voters up and down the land. Rees-Mogg, another one I don't like, would have the potential to greatly energise and enthuse the Tory voting base, something which is beyond May.

Meanwhile, the Labour MP for Peterborough has been charged with perverting the course of justice.