Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

LionsV2 wrote:

Galted wrote:

As much as I agree with you that much of the reason for the Leave vote was the racism and pig-ignorance of the likes of Lionsv2 and old people, I'm not sure the questions you're asking are particularly relevant.  I'd quite like a cut in local crime but couldn't name a single local criminal.

I beg your pardon?

No doubt the mods will do nothing about that.

He said you were “PIG IGNORANT”. I’ve heard of hard of hearing before but not hard of reading.

Everybody hates Boris in the Conservative party. He could only get to the top based on 'the people' like Corbyn did. But Corbyn came into that game as a near unknown, a history as being a rebel and that's it. Boris's many lies and failures have been in full view of everyone.

The shocking thing is that it is not impossible, but he is widely hated at home and abroad

According to yougov he does better in a head to head with Corbyn than any other tory rival..

Whilst he is divisive..........Doesn't suggest he is widely hated..

'Everybody hates Boris in the Conservative Party' - absolute drivel. He is immensely popular with backbench Tory MPs, certainly ones I know/have spoken to, and well-received amongst the grassroots of the party. With the wider electorate, he was a huge force during the referendum, can win Tory voters that no other potential Tory leader can win, and won consecutive elections in London.

The polling is of little surprise.

Can Boris be trusted? No. We saw that when he was in the States and called the bid to go for customs union as ludicrous or crazy when, at that very moment, his boss and PM was striving for that. A knife right between the shoulder blades there. Does he give a stuff about industries? No. Given that when asked the effect Hard Brexit would have on businesses he said: '**** 'em.'

Mind you he is a Tory so I cannot see any meritorious people anywhere in that party.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Mind you he is a Tory so I cannot see any meritorious people anywhere in that party.

There are many hard-working, good people in the Tory Party.. As in all parties.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Can Boris be trusted? No. We saw that when he was in the States and called the bid to go for customs union as ludicrous or crazy when, at that very moment, his boss and PM was striving for that. A knife right between the shoulder blades there. Does he give a stuff about industries? No. Given that when asked the effect Hard Brexit would have on businesses he said: '**** 'em.'

Mind you he is a Tory so I cannot see any meritorious people anywhere in that party.

If you ask me if he is an idiot....I couldn't agree more...Would I want him as pm absolutely not....

But he is charismatic and history shows charimatic types are more easily forgiven......Also a Brexiteer with a membership that is 70% Euro sceptic.

Ring Ring
[Sound of phone hitting person in the tooth as they bring it up too fast to their head]
- "Hello"
- "Hi, I'm calling from [insert name of polling organisation] and I was just wondering if you're a bit of a m*ng and likely to act like a complete m*ng when you get into a polling booth"
- "I'm not sure"
- "Let me be more specific.  Would you consider voting for a f*cking idiot just because you've seen him on TV and he sounds like your clichéd idea of a stuttering, caught in mid-w**k,  public-schoolboy.  I should add that he has funny looking hair and he really does always look like he's been caught mid-w**k."
- "Go on then".  

[Repeat].

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Can Boris be trusted? No. We saw that when he was in the States and called the bid to go for customs union as ludicrous or crazy when, at that very moment, his boss and PM was striving for that. A knife right between the shoulder blades there. Does he give a stuff about industries? No. Given that when asked the effect Hard Brexit would have on businesses he said: '**** 'em.'

Mind you he is a Tory so I cannot see any meritorious people anywhere in that party.

If you ask me if he is an idiot....I couldn't agree more...Would I want him as pm absolutely not....

But he is charismatic and history shows charimatic types are more easily forgiven......Also a Brexiteer with a membership that is 70% Euro sceptic.

He was remain until the last minute. He's not an idiot but he might be a sociopath. It also sounds like he has a new best buddy in the form of Steve Bannon

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Can Boris be trusted? No. We saw that when he was in the States and called the bid to go for customs union as ludicrous or crazy when, at that very moment, his boss and PM was striving for that. A knife right between the shoulder blades there. Does he give a stuff about industries? No. Given that when asked the effect Hard Brexit would have on businesses he said: '**** 'em.'

Mind you he is a Tory so I cannot see any meritorious people anywhere in that party.

If you ask me if he is an idiot....I couldn't agree more...Would I want him as pm absolutely not....

But he is charismatic and history shows charimatic types are more easily forgiven......Also a Brexiteer with a membership that is 70% Euro sceptic.

No denying he will be popular amongst Tory voters who are EU sceptics by and large. But look beyond Brexit at the bigger picture and his overall leadership qualities and you have none. He would seem much more at place clowning around in O'm A Celebrity Get Me Outta Here - in my opinion.

lostinwales wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Can Boris be trusted? No. We saw that when he was in the States and called the bid to go for customs union as ludicrous or crazy when, at that very moment, his boss and PM was striving for that. A knife right between the shoulder blades there. Does he give a stuff about industries? No. Given that when asked the effect Hard Brexit would have on businesses he said: '**** 'em.'

Mind you he is a Tory so I cannot see any meritorious people anywhere in that party.

If you ask me if he is an idiot....I couldn't agree more...Would I want him as pm absolutely not....

But he is charismatic and history shows charimatic types are more easily forgiven......Also a Brexiteer with a membership that is 70% Euro sceptic.

He was remain until the last minute. He's not an idiot but he might be a sociopath. It also sounds like he has a new best buddy in the form of the racist, white supremacist, Steve Bannon

Fixed it for you.

I feel duty bound to point this out at any mention of the racist, white supremacist, Steve Bannon.  It's like anytime someone mentions Nigel Farage I feel duty bound to correct the reference to racist, singer of Nazi songs, Nigel Farage.

superflyweight wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Can Boris be trusted? No. We saw that when he was in the States and called the bid to go for customs union as ludicrous or crazy when, at that very moment, his boss and PM was striving for that. A knife right between the shoulder blades there. Does he give a stuff about industries? No. Given that when asked the effect Hard Brexit would have on businesses he said: '**** 'em.'

Mind you he is a Tory so I cannot see any meritorious people anywhere in that party.

If you ask me if he is an idiot....I couldn't agree more...Would I want him as pm absolutely not....

But he is charismatic and history shows charimatic types are more easily forgiven......Also a Brexiteer with a membership that is 70% Euro sceptic.

He was remain until the last minute. He's not an idiot but he might be a sociopath. It also sounds like he has a new best buddy in the form of the racist, white supremacist, Steve Bannon

Fixed it for you.

I feel duty bound to point this out at any mention of the racist, white supremacist, Steve Bannon.  It's like anytime someone mentions Nigel Farage I feel duty bound to correct the reference to racist, singer of Nazi songs, Nigel Farage.

All of these descriptions can be shortened to 4 letters but unfortunately the chat filters here won't let me use it. There are some who consider Bannon's words to be promoting terrorist acts, and I don't think they are far wrong. We have been refusing visas to some north american right wing activists, and should do the same with him,

CaledonianCraig wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Can Boris be trusted? No. We saw that when he was in the States and called the bid to go for customs union as ludicrous or crazy when, at that very moment, his boss and PM was striving for that. A knife right between the shoulder blades there. Does he give a stuff about industries? No. Given that when asked the effect Hard Brexit would have on businesses he said: '**** 'em.'

Mind you he is a Tory so I cannot see any meritorious people anywhere in that party.

If you ask me if he is an idiot....I couldn't agree more...Would I want him as pm absolutely not....

But he is charismatic and history shows charimatic types are more easily forgiven......Also a Brexiteer with a membership that is 70% Euro sceptic.

No denying he will be popular amongst Tory voters who are EU sceptics by and large. But look beyond Brexit at the bigger picture and his overall leadership qualities and you have none. He would seem much more at place clowning around in O'm A Celebrity Get Me Outta Here - in my opinion.

The Tories are Brexit obsessed.....48% see it as their primary driver.....only 14% in Labour....

Johnson is the most high profile Brexiteer if you rule out Mogg who won't get on the ballot.

The thing is. Since Blair charismatic politicians seem to be of age now. As long as they look good, can talk about good game (to actually follow through with anything optional), and appeal to people that's all that counts. And Boris can do that. Get the right people around him and he laughing (at our expense), but still.

Be interesting though, Corbyn and labour's last manifesto blindsided the Tories (I mean who knew people were feed up with there oppressive policies and austerity)? Johnson may be able to talk a good game, but delivering could be his problem (or even getting to votes). And you feel the next Tory leader will be either the one to put some life into them, or kill them. And with his role in Brexit and the farce since. Half the party/Country will be against him. And even though's who voted leave that I know don't trust him in the slightest.

I think May and Corbyn will be gone by the next GE...

Labour choose wisely they should decimate the Tories..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think May and Corbyn will be gone by the next GE...

Labour choose wisely they should decimate the Tories..

I am not sure Labour will choose wisely. It's not just JC it's the group around him who seek to dominate the party. I think Labour has some very good politicians (Lammy, Cooper for 2) but that they won't get a look in unless things change dramatically.

Thornberry or Rayner next probably..

Keir Starmer would be a great choice, in my opinion.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think May and Corbyn will be gone by the next GE...

Labour choose wisely they should decimate the Tories..

Not sure about Corbyn. The party may not be overall behind him. But the members are. Unless he stands down can still see him leading it. And to be honest now might not be the best time to challenge him. With what's happening in the Tories, stability might be the key.

Labour right are trying to nail him on Anti Semitism so there won't be any stability in Labour until he kicks them out or they kick him out..

Sky Data Poll...

Are the Govt doing a good job managing Brexit??

Yes 10%
No 78%


.

How are they even as high as 10% for people thinking they're doing a good job?

Again, the members mostly support him. And as they get the major say he will probably stay. Can't help feeling the anti semitism is a smoker thing. There's no evidence he is, but because some of the party are attack him with it, especially when Labour are doing well.

10% think the governmentsame handling Brexit well !!!! Who new so many drunk people are allowed to answer these surveys.

Luke wrote:
10% think the governmentsame handling Brexit well !!!! Who new so many drunk people are allowed to answer these surveys.

Did you answer the survey?

Of course I did, can't remember what I was answering it was a bad night that night

I wrote that I think there will be a new Party....But everything is volatile....

If the Tories don't go to the Country soon....In three years where will we be... post Brexit ??

Corbyn may win with 32%

BUT then again I think Thornberry will be leader in three years anyway..

I haven't a clue where we are or where we are going..

All bets are off.

Labour will split into two parties in the near future (within 10 years). It has been inevitable since Corbyn's election in 2015, and it has moved closer since the recent NEC elections and the deselections of some local councillors. Now, of course, we're starting to see deselections at national level which will have huge ramifications.

Even if Corbyn leaves as Labour leader, a Corbynista will replace him.

Interesting times. Thank god for the Leave vote, otherwise we'd still have Cameron/Osborne and be sleepwalking to the 2020 General Election.

Have to be a young man to say 10 years is the near future.

New Party will struggle with first past the post..

Boris is a 1st class stamp.

Boris is playing to the Tory members who are mainly old...right wing and are anti immigrants..

Just look at Brexit.

Based on the interactions I’ve seen on Twitter, Boris is trying to gain the support of the Kippers and Gammons and the rest of the far right Tories. No surprise after his secret meetings with Bannon.

He’s maybe a better politician than most give him credit for.

Samo wrote:Based on the interactions I’ve seen on Twitter, Boris is trying to gain the support of the Kippers and Gammons and the rest of the far right Tories. No surprise after his secret meetings with Bannon.

He’s maybe a better politician than most give him credit for.

If being a decent politician is pandering to the worst of an electorate, purely to further your own political career then, yes, he's better than most give him credit for.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:Based on the interactions I’ve seen on Twitter, Boris is trying to gain the support of the Kippers and Gammons and the rest of the far right Tories. No surprise after his secret meetings with Bannon.

He’s maybe a better politician than most give him credit for.

If being a decent politician is pandering to the worst of an electorate, purely to further your own political career then, yes, he's better than most give him credit for.

You keep giving brilliant definitions of the-common-grey-spotted hooded and crooked billed politician, navy.

I hope some day someone invents a definition for the supposed outcast types like Boris and Trump.

SecretFly wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:Based on the interactions I’ve seen on Twitter, Boris is trying to gain the support of the Kippers and Gammons and the rest of the far right Tories. No surprise after his secret meetings with Bannon.

He’s maybe a better politician than most give him credit for.

If being a decent politician is pandering to the worst of an electorate, purely to further your own political career then, yes, he's better than most give him credit for.

You keep giving brilliant definitions of the-common-grey-spotted hooded and crooked billed politician, navy.

I hope some day someone invents a definition for the supposed outcast types like Boris and Trump.

They don't appear to be outcasts, which IMO is both a little surprising and a worry. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised at all really...

Boris "won't apologise". But then, neither do the KKK.

JuliusHMarx wrote:Boris "won't apologise". But then, neither do the KKK.

I know he's been playing this game for a long time but it is interesting that he's been having some recent conversations with that loathsome promoter of terrorism Steve Bannon. The comments are very Trumpian seem to be purely designed to keep his name in the news.

IPSOS Mori....Approval ratings..

May 31%..
Corbyn 27%..

Makes you wonder if either Party had a leader regarded as semi-Competent...

What the Polls would look like..

Oh for the days of Cameron and Miliband.

Rather have Corbyn than Miliband....No idea what the Ed stood for and he was dull..

Funny to think though that Corbyn has the worst ratings out of all the leaders and yet is the safest in his job.

Has 7/10 of the Party is in his pocket.....Whether he wins really depends on Brexit and the next few months..

Always said you don't vote a Party in....You vote a Party out ..

Tories have a four point lead on the latest YouGov poll.

More disturbingly for Corbyn, only 22% think he would make the best PM, the lowest for over a year.

Summer holiday polls aren't really a great indicator...A lot of people are away.

Wouldn't take Yougov too seriously just as I Wouldn't take ICM's latest

Lab 40
Con 39

Too serious

Wall to Wall Labour Antisemitism....

BMG

Lab 39 +2
Con 37 -2

Like I said Summer Holiday polls are not as reliable..

Still a surprise though..

And then there is the Corbyn / Palestinian terrorist thing. The most charitable reading of which is that he was foolish and let himself be manipulated into some embarrassing pictures.

These events are coming up far too often, and his handling of them is uniformly poor although his cult following seem to be determined to stick with him regardless.

I am convinced he is the Tory party's best asset.

The Media is scared of change so they are throwing smear after smear at him...

I imagine Schools..Hospitals....Standard of living trumps Establishment bullying in most peoples eyes....

You keep smearing someone with crap.......Eventually when you have a case against him people won't listen..

Corbyn will survive this and maybe stronger after it.....The media are crying wolf.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:The Media is scared of change so they are throwing smear after smear at him...

I imagine Schools..Hospitals....Standard of living trumps Establishment bullying in most peoples eyes....

You keep smearing someone with crap.......Eventually when you have a case against him people won't listen..

Corbyn will survive this and maybe stronger after it.....The media are crying wolf.

No he's all but useless. It is not just the smears (which are not without foundation) but the way he deals with them. 34 years on the back benches just doing his thing with no pressure and no achievements does not make for a great leader. I know we all need hope and an alternative from the May+ co but I just don't get the obsession with JC, and it seems that outside of his core supporters I am not alone.

The state of our current political system is abysmal, and he plays a full part in that. He's May's most important asset.

He does get a rough time from the media but a stronger more savvy character would be able to push attention elsewhere. The best of his policies don't depend on him. He does get more attention than other Labour politicians, but you see attacks on the likes of Khan or Lammy have little or no effect.

If Corbyn took a back seat for someone with half the baggage, Labour would walk the next GE.

He's handled this piss poorly. Back tracking and contradicting himself - especially now its come out that the terrorists he was allegedly placing a wreath for arent even buried in that graveyard, or even in Tunisia. All he had to do was explain it in simple terms. It is odd that it only appears to be Corbyn being strung out for this, when there was a Lib Dem House of Lords type and a Tory Peer.

Call me cynical, but its almost as if the right wing media are trying to deflect away from Boris Johnson, the Brexit shambles and the Saudi government blowing up a bus of Yemeni kids with weapons WE sold them.

GSC wrote:If Corbyn took a back seat for someone with half the baggage, Labour would walk the next GE.

Yep. Any half-way competent Labour leader would have defeated the abject Tory Party at the last GE, but instead Labour were lumbered with a hapless fool. And, of course, any normal Labour leader would have been out the door with results as poor as Corbyn in 2017 achieved, but he benefited immensely from the basement level expectations people had of him.

Pure supposition....

Any "half decent leader" you are talking about wouldn't have flooded the marginals with three bus loads of activists and had a Social media army..

Miliband 30% in 2015
Blair 35% in 2005..
Brown 29% in 2010..
Corbyn 40% in 2017..

560,000 Members and 1.85m followers are a helluva weapon..

NCP poll..

Lab 40 +2
Con 38 -5

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Pure supposition....

Any "half decent leader" you are talking about wouldn't have flooded the marginals with three bus loads of activists and had a Social media army..

Miliband 30% in 2015
Blair 35% in 2005..
Brown 29% in 2010..
Corbyn 40% in 2017..

UKIP and Lib Dems 20% in 2015
Lib Dems 22% in 2005
Lib Dems 23% in 2010
Lib Dems and UKIP 9% in 2017

That's why Corbyn got 40% - the complete collapse of a viable 3rd party.

Put someone half-decent in - Kier Starmer, Yvette Cooper, even David M - and watch Labour dominate the polls. Yes, Corbyn understands social media well and is pretty much the only UK politician (aside from Farage) who utilises it properly, but he won't win Labour General Elections.

262 seats against Theresa May...embarrassing.

But even more embarrassing is that the Tories are still in power with catastrophic May still at the helm. This just goes to show the pathetic options open to voters in the UK (well a majority of it).

Duty281 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Pure supposition....

Any "half decent leader" you are talking about wouldn't have flooded the marginals with three bus loads of activists and had a Social media army..

Miliband 30% in 2015
Blair 35% in 2005..
Brown 29% in 2010..
Corbyn 40% in 2017..

UKIP and Lib Dems 20% in 2015
Lib Dems 22% in 2005
Lib Dems 23% in 2010
Lib Dems and UKIP 9% in 2017

That's why Corbyn got 40% - the complete collapse of a viable 3rd party.

Put someone half-decent in - Kier Starmer, Yvette Cooper, even David M - and watch Labour dominate the polls. Yes, Corbyn understands social media well and is pretty much the only UK politician (aside from Farage) who utilises it properly, but he won't win Labour General Elections.

262 seats against Theresa May...embarrassing.

There was also tactical voting based on the hope he'd actually do his job and oppose Brexit. All these things he took credit for without, you know, actually winning.

JC is very polarising and for his followers it seems he can do no wrong, for the rest of us he can do no right. I am still waiting for him to say something about the electoral commissions findings on the referendum but nope. And as for listening to his party, it seems he does but only if its a view he already agrees with.

His followers also seem all to keen on alienating people who would, in other circumstances, vote Labour. You know, Blairites, centrists, floating voters etc. The ones you actually need to vote for you if you want to win an election.