Glasgow and Edinburgh banter thread no. 23 - New season, new thread

[BigGee]

First topic message reminder :

Well a new season is probably time to start off a new thread.

2 weeks to the start of the season and both sides with one more pre season game to go. A lot of unknowns this season again, due to the number of players away with Scotland and other countries for the WC.

For Glasgow, can they continue their general excellence that took them on a fantastic end of season run to the Pro 14 Final, where they just fell short. It might be their last campaign under Dave Rennie, so can they go one better?

Edinburgh also have questions to ask, the main one being whether they can ever pass the ball past the FH and how soon before their wingers are likely to go blue from hypothermia? On a more positive note though, they may finally be playing in Mini Murrayfield by autumn 2020. So only one more year to bear playing in the library!

Good luck to both teams for the coming season, though Edinburgh are more likely to need it than Glasgow!

[NeilyBroon]

Saw this interview with femi, interesting to see he's wearing a warriors bib, does this mean hes in line to be seymours long term succesor, or am I reading too much into it? Certainly an exciting prospect at 20! https://www.scottishrugby.org/fanzone/interview-with-femi-sofolarin

[RDW]

The 7s players are split between the two pro teams for training when they're not building up to a tournament.

It could of course mean he does a James Johnson and becomes a fulltime fixture at 15s, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to get a look in any time soon!

[BigGee]

He is a very well spoken young man, who does look to have a bit of stardust about him as well.

I think he could well end up at Glasgow and I wonder if that was part of the pitch to get him back playing for Scotland again. He has just turned 20 so has plenty of time on his side and seems to want to finish his degree as well at Newcastle.

We are crying out for some decent wingers though and he really does look like he has the tools.

[NeilyBroon]

The 7s players are split between the two pro teams for training when they're not building up to a tournament.

It could of course mean he does a James Johnson and becomes a fulltime fixture at 15s, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to get a look in any time soon!

Unless ratu tagive has a breakthrough six nations I can't really see many other future options beyond Steyn on the wing for Glasgow. Nairn has done very little to forward his case in a Glasgow shirt. Matawalu isn't really a wing, nor is Steyn to be honest. After the two old boys retire the cupboard is surprisingly bare at wing considering Glasgow's former prowess in the back division. I think Femi would be a welcome addition, and maybe would give Nairn some motivation to up his game.

[RDW]

https://twitter.com/adamellis42/status/1221377373788045312?s=19

New tighthead for Glasgow.

[tigertattie]

https://twitter.com/adamellis42/status/1221377373788045312?s=19

New tighthead for Glasgow.

Facebook forums have erupted over this.

They arent happy that a tighthead prop has been signed when they are needing 10 cover, a new 15 and an entire backrow

[RDW]

WTF. Glasgow also need a TH!

Also, it's not as if this is the last signing they're ever going to make...

[Hazel Sapling]

Realistically the depth chart is probably  Z Fagerson, Rae/Nuka (not sure who is second choice) and Nicol. Will he be a cheaper option to replace Nuka as third choice or are we going to five TH's? Would we not be better trying to find a diamond in the rough of Super Six to be fifth choice?

As for a 15, could we be in the market for Maitland or Taylor?

[RDW]

Currently the only TH Glasgow can rely on is Fagerson - that's not a good position to be in. Rae could find himself in serious trouble with teh law and Nuka is never fit. Nicol is still very raw.

Glasgow need a good TH!

[BigGee]

All the more reason not to pay sny attention to Facebook forums

Do they want Fagerson to play 80 mins every week?

This is not likely to be our only signing!

[tigertattie]

All the more reason not to pay sny attention to Facebook forums

Do they want Fagerson to play 80 mins every week?

This is not likely to be our only signing!

160 mins it would seem. He'll need to play on a Friday night for Glasgow and then on a Sat/Sun for Scotland for the next few months.

No biggie, I use to play for the School on a Sat then the Club on the Sunday. Ok I was 14 at the time but hey, I'm sure I could still do it now!

[Hazel Sapling]

Currently the only TH Glasgow can rely on is Fagerson - that's not a good position to be in. Rae could find himself in serious trouble with teh law and Nuka is never fit. Nicol is still very raw.

Glasgow need a good TH!

I agree that there is a need for a TH, but as you point out Nuka is never fit and probably on a reasonable wage. I am afraid that we are bringing in TH's that act as a plaster on the wound rather than developing young players. Ceccarelli at Edinburgh and Pieretto at Glasgow could end up blocking crucial development time for McCallum and Nicol who could be needed in the not too distant future for Scotland.

If Nel retires in two years, third choice would be a 27 year-old Rae assuming he avoids a custodial sentence (and who is not a bad club player). Competition does help, but our prop development has not been great for a good while now.

[BigGee]

We will see more of Nicol over the next few weeks whilst 6N is on, but from what we have seen so far he has a long way to go and may or may not get there.

Rae, if he avoids jail, is a sqaud player at best.

Nuke, even if he gets fit is a 50 min mximum prop. He has got one more season on contract then will go.

TH props are gold dust and you have simply got to have them. Nicol will get gsme time if he shows the coaches he deserves it, but we still need more depth than we possess currently

[BigGee]

No Gary Graham to Glasgow then. He has just re-signed with Newcastle.

I wonder if there is any legs in the Kvesic rumour?

[jimbopip]

I'm not sure where the D'Arcy Rae to Barlinnie rumour came from. He didn't appear in court on a speeding charge: seriously! an increased fine I think. Even GC could get him back on the streets for that!

More importantly Rae underwent wrist surgery and is out for the season. Nuke is injured more often than Mike Cusack was and Nicol needs more time (but not in the Barlinnie sense).

A new TH makes good sense.

[Eejit]

https://twitter.com/adamellis42/status/1221377373788045312?s=19

New tighthead for Glasgow.

Facebook forums have erupted over this.

They arent happy that a tighthead prop has been signed when they are needing 10 cover, a new 15 and an entire backrow

I had to leave that one ages ago due to the sheer about of absolute rockets that populate it.

[jimbopip]

Eejit I feel your pain. I made the mistake of criticising Calum Gibbins over his totally needless yellow card against Exeter You'd think I called Mary Berry a crack lady of loose morals.

[Eejit]

Eejit I feel your pain. I made the mistake of criticising Calum Gibbins over his totally needless yellow card against Exeter  You'd think I called Mary Berry a crack lady of loose morals.

Hello Jimbo!  

I just assumed they're the same type of folk that say that the Tartan Army are the best football fans in the world while conveniently ignoring that we as a people are capable of (and frequently indulge in) the same kind of knob-headery as everyone else.

[jimbopip]

Eejit, I thought that until one comment simply read,

"Jimbopip JEEZ!"

I was about to ignore until I saw it had been sent by Barbra Gibbins.

I was worried that I may have inadvertently upset her so in my best Uriah Heap, very 'umble manner pointed out that it was a silly and pointless penalty to give away and that as a professional rugby player, not to mention team captain, I would be surprised if Calum wasn't disappointed in himself. Oil on troubled waters I thought.
Her reply was, and I paraphrase from memory, that she was disappointed in me and didn't they have enough stress in their lives at the moment.
Given that it would appear that Mr Gibbins won't be having his contract renewed ( rumour has it that Matt Kvesic is joining Glasgow) and they will have to uproot themselves and find new employment I didn't have the heart to offer any more olive branches. Being a professional rugby player isn't all beer and skittles.

And she was, by a country mile, the most reasonable of the pitchfork and blazing torches brigade.

[tigertattie]

I do feel for the players at times. They dont intentionally mess things up I dont think but we do give them pelters for mistakes (see me and Peter Horne for example)

If I was a professional sportsman, I would steer well clear of any forums or social media where folk (like me) can chuck mud around about players/coaches/teams and their performances unless I had a very very thick skin.

Mrs Gibbins is right to stand up for Mr Gibbins, but its a fight she'd never win against folk behind a screen. Luckily jimbo had the grace not to get into a personal attack on Mrs gibbins but she may not be so lucky next time if she comes across a member of the Scotstoun boo brigade

[RDW]

Edinburgh have signed Exeter lock Stan South (what a name) on a short term deal. Cockers is saying we're short of locks which may point to more injuries as we have McKenzie, Charmichael and Sam Thomson still, with young guns like Jamie Hodgeson coming up.

[tigertattie]

New locks!

Ironically the Glasgow locks put in a shift vs Ireland. It was the other Glasgow (or former glasgow) players such as Stupid penatly Brown, Silly penalty Johnson and Stupid knock on Hogg that let us down.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I come round to the idea of Cockers getting his hands on the Scotland team to cut out the silly penalties and mistakes. A return to the basics so to say!

[EWT Spoons]

Edinburgh have signed Exeter lock Stan South (what a name) on a short term deal. Cockers is saying we're short of locks which may point to more injuries as we have McKenzie, Charmichael and Sam Thomson still, with young guns like Jamie Hodgeson coming up.

If it wasn't already clear, I suspect this is the death knell of Hunter-Hills time at Edinburgh. Recalling him from loan, I would have imagined, would have been a better option that getting this new lad in. Now his loan deal might have prevented this, but I'd have thought something could have been done.

[RDW]

Edinburgh have signed Exeter lock Stan South (what a name) on a short term deal. Cockers is saying we're short of locks which may point to more injuries as we have McKenzie, Charmichael and Sam Thomson still, with young guns like Jamie Hodgeson coming up.

If it wasn't already clear, I suspect this is the death knell of Hunter-Hills time at Edinburgh.  Recalling him from loan, I would have imagined, would have been a better option that getting this new lad in.  Now his loan deal might have prevented this, but I'd have thought something could have been done.

I was thinking that - the fact that we've had to sign a new permanent lock (Thomson) and bring in two short term loans (Douglas and this bloke) instead of picking him isn't exactly a ringing endorsement!

[EWT Spoons]

It's confusing as HH (that's an unfortunate abbreviation) always looked reasonable -> good when he played. I can't think of a game where he looked massively out of place.

I assume something must have gone on behind the scenes between him and Cockers.

[RDW]

He just looked a bit of a big lump to me and, similar to Gilchrist, always looked knackered!

[EWT Spoons]

I appreciate that it's only one game, but in the win against Scarlets last season he looked very good. He does have an unfortunate look about him where he looks exhausted the moment he steps onto the field, but he's a big lad who did well enough, especially considering he's only 22 and plenty of time to improve. Plus Sarries I assume want him, so that's a fairly decent endorsement.

[Tramptastic]

Maybe Cockers thought HH was getting decent time at sarries and might benefit with getting a good run of games with them for the rest of the season, rather than continuing as a bit part player for edinburgh?

[RDW]

Strangely the relegation could be the best thing for him - he's going to get a lot of gametime now and has already this season! He'll probably be needed in the Championship next season and by then he could really establish himself.

[RDW]

In a move that will make glasgow fans self implode, Matt Smith has signed for Edinburgh until the end of the season!

Why do Edinburgh need a backrow??

[Tramptastic]

oh no! It looks like GW will have to keep selecting Fusaro and Gibbins! How inspiring!

[EWT Spoons]

In a move that will make glasgow fans self implode, Matt Smith has signed for Edinburgh until the end of the season!

Why do Edinburgh need a backrow??

This move literally makes no sense, unless someone is about to leave (trying to remember who's out of contract) or about to hang up their boots (Barclay?)

Madness. With that said happy to have him, just don't get the reasoning

[RDW]

He'll be 4th choice behind Watson, Ritchie, Crosbie, maybe even 5th choice if you include Barclay! Plus there's Ally Millar at the 7s.

[BigGee]

To be fair, if it gives him a chance to put himself in the shop window, good luck to him.

Edinburgh backrow will be depleted for a good few games till the international players get back. He may get a game or two for them in that period.

He clearly is leaving Glasgow at the end of the season anyway and unlikely to get any game time before then. He is a good player who has not really had much of a chance recently.

[EWT Spoons]

On the back of BigGee's post, I assume this loan is with the view to him moving over permanently. With Barcs going at the end of the year, and I suspect Watson might be away as well. He's made it known he wants to try somewhere else (aka earn more cash) so I don't know if he'll see out the end of his contract and even if he does, he's going to be away with Scotland a fair bit.

With the above taken into account then in theory it does clear the decks a bit for him to be involved. Especially if we consider both Ritchie and Crosbie can play 6 & 7 so there could be some rotation going on.

It's still a fairly odd move, I can almost see the sense, but we do still have the like of Darge etc coming through who would probably make more sense in terms of 3rd/4th choice.

Nope I tried, it's a very odd signing

[BigGee]

I think he is just an oven ready replacement to cover the international period and allow them a rest afterwards.

There are 2 very good 7s in the u20s, Darge and Boyle who look like they have pro potential. I'd be surprised if one of them does not end up with either team.

Getting injured and the emergence of Gordon has done for Matt Smith at Glasgow unfortunately. I imagined he might end up in sevens swuad or at London Scottish or maybe try his luck in Nice or over in Washington. At this stage in his career he needs to play some rugby, even if it means tsking a step back

[EWT Spoons]

I think he is just an oven ready replacement to cover the international period and allow them a rest afterwards.

There are 2 very good 7s in the u20s, Darge and Boyle who look like they have pro potential. I'd be surprised if one of them does not end up with either team.

Getting injured and the emergence of Gordon has done for Matt Smith at Glasgow unfortunately. I imagined he might end up in sevens swuad or at London Scottish or maybe try his luck in Nice or over in Washington. At this stage in his career he needs to play some rugby, even if it means tsking a step back

Both of whom are currently listed as Edinburgh players, unless the plan is to ship one/both of them over to Glasgow.

[Hazel Sapling]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51415778

When it rains, it pours.....if the result is vacated, Glasgow go through

[Hazel Sapling]

Matt Smith to Edinburgh makes sense. Glasgow have all their back-rows available during the international break whilst Edinburgh have lost their starting flankers and two back-up no. 8s. There are five games from here until the QF of the Challenge Cup at the start of April.

If Barclay wants another year, maybe Crosbie can come over to Glasgow.

Crosbie - M Fagerson - Gordon with either Wilson or Flockhart on the bench could be a very good back-row

[BigGee]

I think he is just an oven ready replacement to cover the international period and allow them a rest afterwards.

There are 2 very good 7s in the u20s, Darge and Boyle who look like they have pro potential. I'd be surprised if one of them does not end up with either team.

Getting injured and the emergence of Gordon has done for Matt Smith at Glasgow unfortunately. I imagined he might end up in sevens swuad or at London Scottish or maybe try his luck in Nice or over in Washington. At this stage in his career he needs to play some rugby, even if it means tsking a step back

Both of whom are currently listed as Edinburgh players, unless the plan is to ship one/both of them over to Glasgow.

Neither are on Pro contracts yet and it would not make much sense for Edinburgh to sign to apprentice 7s.

Glasgow's need would seem to be greater in any case, it seems likely that Gibbins will be off and his star has been fading a bit in any case. Fusaro is almost at the end of his career as well and may also go at the end of this season. With Gordon becoming established now and Glasgow seeming to not want to be keeping Smith, we are going to need some re-inforcements in that area.

[BigGee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51415778

When it rains, it pours.....if the result is vacated, Glasgow go through

Interesting this.

Precedent seems to suggest it will be a fine, but you never know and it is not as if Sarries are the flavour of the month at the moment.

[jimbopip]

HUGE NEWS

Sarries have a hearing tonight with EPCR about Lamositele who wasn't eligible for the game vs Racing. If they are docked the result, we would go through to the QF probably to face Leinster as the other results would be re-shuffled.

Could be massive - fingers crossed !!!!!!

I've copied this from the Warriors' Forum. Also;

"The Committee considered it important that participating clubs should be aware that the fielding of an ineligible player compromises the integrity of the tournament which is regarded as a serious matter. That seriousness should be reflected by firm punishment.

The Club should not receive any playing benefit from the Match and therefore the result of the Match would be void and the points won by the Club in the Match taken away from it."

That seems to be the relevant legislation. They did field an ineligible player and won the match. However, if fans have made travel arrangements etc for the other QF's which would all have to be reshuffled then Shyster, Flywheel and Shyster could get involved so the EPRC may be more pragmatic and fine the cheating barstewards from norff Lahndun.

[jimbopip]

In a move that will make glasgow fans self implode, Matt Smith has signed for Edinburgh until the end of the season!

Why do Edinburgh need a backrow??

This move literally makes no sense, unless someone is about to leave (trying to remember who's out of contract) or about to hang up their boots (Barclay?)

Madness.  With that said happy to have him, just don't get the reasoning

I have spontaneously combusted.

[123456789.]

HUGE NEWS

Sarries have a hearing tonight with EPCR about Lamositele who wasn't eligible for the game vs Racing. If they are docked the result, we would go through to the QF probably to face Leinster as the other results would be re-shuffled.

Could be massive - fingers crossed !!!!!!

I've copied this from the Warriors' Forum. Also;

"The Committee considered it important that participating clubs should be aware that the fielding of an ineligible player compromises the integrity of the tournament which is regarded as a serious matter. That seriousness should be reflected by firm punishment.

The Club should not receive any playing benefit from the Match and therefore the result of the Match would be void and the points won by the Club in the Match taken away from it."

That seems to be the relevant legislation. They did field an ineligible player and won the match. However, if fans have made travel arrangements etc for the other QF's which would all have to be reshuffled then Shyster, Flywheel and Shyster could get involved so the EPRC may be more pragmatic and fine the cheating barstewards from norff Lahndun.

From a Glasgow perspective the chance to play in the quarter-finals would be massive and an opportunity to stick one on Leinster after the defeat at Celtic Park. From a tournament perspective I think it's a great shame. Sarries played brilliantly in that game against Racing and ultimately we screwed up at home to La Rochelle and we didn't finish the job off against Exeter. It would add yet another chapter to the Sarries-Glasgow, England-Scotland beef that's emerged in the last couple of years. Perhaps we'll see Ryan Wilson parachuted into the side to twist the knife.

[RDW]

Saracens just got a fine - nothing to see here, move on.

[jimbopip]

Actually Flounder there is a huge amount to see here.

The fine of 50 000 Euros will be well short of what they earn from the QF against the Ladyboys. If they go further in the tournament then it will become , relatively, less punitive.

EPRC's justification for a fine rather than expulsion was, and I paraphrase, that they had played an ineligible player but hadn't sought to gain any advantage from doing so. Even Toonie at his most maverick draws the line at selecting players who do not, in theory, have the potential to give his side an advantage. The player was in the 23, and played part in the match, therefore Sarries thought he was good enough to give them some kind of advantage during the game.

The fine is a paltry sum when set against the income Sarries can/will earn from remaining in the tournament. In blunt cost-benefit analysis they are coming out ahead.

EPRC said

the fielding of an ineligible player compromises the integrity of the tournament which is regarded as a serious matter. That seriousness should be reflected by firm punishment

In terms of maintaining the integrity of the tournament this punishment is neither a deterrent nor a clear and unambiguous message to any other side tempted to "accidently" play an ineligible player in future.

This judgement is flawed at best and corrupt at worst.
Plenty to see here Flounder my old mate.

[Hazel Sapling]

Saracens were the ones to bring EPCR's attention to it and from the sounds of it, he was eligible when selected but not on game day by a visa issue.

A fine was probably about right rather than vacating the result for 20 minutes of a single player. Probably should have been a percentage of the prize and TV money though. 10-20% would have sent a message.

Would have been great for Glasgow though...

[Eejit]

Two more years for the ginger tackle monster.

[BigGee]

Two more years for the ginger tackle monster.

Was he ever not going to sign on again?

He is going to set some record for caps that may never be beaten!

[jimbopip]

The Giant Red Crayon may be playing second row again soon: Ickle Jonny cream crackered and out of the remainder of the 6 Nations.

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