France vs England

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France

France: Jaminet; Penaud, Fickou, Danty, Villiere; Ntamack, Dupont (capt); Baille, Marchand, Atonio, Woki, Willemse, Cros, Alldritt, Jelonch.

Replacements: Mauvaka, Gros, Haouas, Flament, Taofifenua, Cretin, Lucu, Ramos.

vs England

15. George Furbank

14. Freddie Steward

13. Joe Marchant

12. Henry Slade

11. Jack Nowell

10. Marcus Smith

9. Ben Youngs

1. Ellis Genge

2. Jamie George

3. Will Stuart

4. Maro Itoje

5. Nick Isiekwe

6. Courtney Lawes

7. Sam Underhill

8. Sam Simmonds

Finishers

16. Nic Dolly (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)

17. Joe Marler

18. Kyle Sinckler

19. Ollie Chessum

20. Alex Dombrandt

21. Harry Randall

22. George Ford

23. Elliot Daly

Kick-off: 8:00pm

Referee: Jaco Peyper (SARU)

Assistant Referee 1: Mike Adamson (SRU)

Assistant Referee 2: Frank Murphy (IRFU)

TMO: Marius Jonker (SARU)

I have seen the selection and all I can say is what the flying f....

Strange selection.  I know Jones likes to inter-change players but surely Marler is too slow to be on the wing and Lawes perhaps a  little tall for a scrumhalf.  Despite all his many caps, Youngs has really not much experience at tight-head.

England could still win but ....

From The Telegraph, Daniel Schofield (not the whole article, just the first three paragraphs):

England started this Six Nations Championship with Eddie Jones promising to unleash an attacking, more expansive brand of rugby. They finish it going to the Stade de France with a team designed to boot the leather off the ball and kick Les Blues’ Grand Slam dream to the curb.

With Ben Youngs restored at scrum-half, George Furbank surprisingly parachuted in at full-back and Freddie Steward shifted to the wing, there is no mistaking what England’s approach is going to be in Paris and it will not involve chucking the ball around. Clear skies are forecast for the French capital on Saturday night, but the French back three can expect it to rain high balls all evening long. The long-promised attacking revolution will have to wait for another day. Or 2023 perhaps.

Placing 6ft 5in Steward on the wing opposite 5ft 11in Gabin Villière (who looks even smaller) is a clear identification of a mismatch England intend to exploit, building on the Welsh template that ruffled so many French feathers in Cardiff last Friday.

England are becoming a joke. Max Malins finally gets dropped because he isn't a winger and has had no impact in the first 4 games. Eddie calls up 2 specilaist wingers in Louis Lynagh and Ollie Hassell-Collins, and then plucks a rabbit out of the hat by moving Steward - one of our few players to come out of the 6 Nations in credit - to play out of position on the wing. To rub salt into the wound, he picks the ineffective Furbank to play at fullback.

Eddie is picking teams to try and negate the opposition, rather than picking a team to win games. He seems to be focused on going down rabbit holes. With less than 18 months to the World Cup it is time for Eddie to go,

I think I will skip watching it live altogether, maybe watch it back later in the unlikely event it was a good game

I suspect England and Scotland will both be well beaten. France clearly missed Penaud and Taofifenua last week and there was a sickness bug in the squad.
At home they will be much stronger and their scrum will dominate a pack with Will Stuart up against the form loose head in world rugby in Cyril Baille.

Well bar the loosehead playing for england. You're best aiming for running around and keeping it loose. This England team has been picked to bore the pants of you and grind you down.

nlpnlp said it. England team is one picked to negate France rather than on Englands strengths. Jones always said "can't control opposition, we only concentrate on us" etc etc. Definitely not case with this 15/23.

Ball will be booted into night sky. Erm, that's it tactics wise.

France pre 6N were mine and many others favourites. As games gone on that view only reinforced.
I honestly cannot see an England win away from home with that team against France.
Hopefully I'm wrong but I doubt it.

Depends ow the rolling maul goes. The pack is pretty much the same as the one who has gotten the upper hand each time, bar Underhill (who may be undercooked) and Isiekwe who many were calling for anyway. There aren't issues there really, or shouldn't be.

Phone call RFU - EJ.

RFU-
Jones, WTF do you call that messed up selection?

Jones-
I have a cunning plan........
I keep beasting all the best players until they get injured, those that don't (get injured), I play out of position.  That way the rest of the world will not know what sort of side and tactics we are going to use and just how good we are before the RWC.

I play a scrum half who can only pass at the speed of a 9 year old school boy on crutches to that Marcus is deemed to be only ordinary.

If anyone looks like they may be good enough to make the squad next year and make a difference, Dave Ribbans for example, I don't pick them, let the RotW think Ewels is our 3rd best lock.

But wait until next year when we have everybody back and two 9s that are fast, intelligent and can actually pass, Marcus being fed good quick ball, Manu creating havoc through the center and real proven speedsters on the wing, just wait................wait........................you'll see.....................................we'll show the world a true English side...................they don't like it up em, they don't.

RFU.

Can someone call a ambulance?

Pack been fine all 6N pretty much bar Ewels always selected. It's backs where England haven't got right all tournament and seemingly haven't again.
England not scoring tries, too much made of this at times but there is truth in it. Does anyone think backline picked going to suddenly click and cut loose? I can't see it. France will definitely score tries, question is can England kick enough points to keep them in game until last 10 mins when anything could happen.

Im not sure theres many issues with the pack.

Its the backs that continue to puzzle.

Does Eddie genuinely not care much about 6n results...its seemingly more and more...

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not sure theres many issues with the pack.

Its the backs that continue to puzzle.

Does Eddie genuinely not care much about 6n results...its seemingly more and more...

Or the opposite. I get the logic of the picks. But its a boring short term vision to win the next match.

mountain man wrote:Pack been fine all 6N pretty much...

Probably a good reason for that, try talking to Cockerill after a sub-par performance...

I'm not convinced by Gleeson with the backs though. There are many reasons I wouldn't have Gleeson right now, but not sure if current failings are him not being up to scratch or the instructions he is getting from Eddie. Nor am I convinced by backs selections, which is presumably all on Eddie.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Im not sure theres many issues with the pack.

Its the backs that continue to puzzle.

Does Eddie genuinely not care much about 6n results...its seemingly more and more...

Or the opposite. I get the logic of the picks. But its a boring short term vision to win the next match.

I find myself agreeing with you more and more about the WC.

Win each competition we are in...and constant evolve the side...dont just sacrifice everything in an attempt to win the WC...which can go horribly wrong with one bad day at the office when we get there....

The balance to his approach is confused and wrong. I hope there are a couple of RFU guys on a jolly to see Robertson this weekend tbh.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The balance to his approach is confused and wrong. I hope there are a couple of RFU guys on a jolly to see Robertson this weekend tbh.

Not sure Robertson is the answer, mate. Christchurch/Canterbury usually has the best talent in NZ to work with. And from a Saints perspective, I am done with Super Rugby coaches for a while. And with EJ, maybe the hole in the ozone layer finally had a delayed reaction melting his mind.....

By the way, in the off chance England actually win, then what do we say????

England have a raft of talent. We actually just choose to pick Youngs.

I'm very much not in the camp that it's even going to be a surprise if we do win against France. I can see Frances plan A coming up short but then every team bar England has a great plan B don't they? I'm more bothered that we should be offering more entertainment and winning. This pick as above is about negating France rather than imposing ourselves. And Jones has now had enough post WC to be far further along that road.

doctor_grey wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:The balance to his approach is confused and wrong. I hope there are a couple of RFU guys on a jolly to see Robertson this weekend tbh.

Not sure Robertson is the answer, mate.  Christchurch/Canterbury usually has the best talent in NZ to work with.  And from a Saints perspective, I am done with Super Rugby coaches for a while.  And with EJ, maybe the hole in the ozone layer finally had a delayed reaction melting his mind.....

By the way, in the off chance England actually win, then what do we say????

We don't say anything - we just buy a load of lottery tickets ....

By the way, in the off chance England actually win, then what do we say????

Phew?

France for me overwhelming favourites, better team, better players overall and playing well. Doesn't mean England can't or won't win but seems unlikely especially away.
If England do win and not through France red cards or something but purely on team/tactics then I think we must applaud Jones. Until it actually happens I'll reserve judgement...

I think the only way England win this is if a French player gets red carded.

I know we all have our natural bias, but what I have seen is that the French team do tend to do some really lovely stuff, especially early on, then run out of steam around 60 minutes. England look very fit so a very idealistic view is that they continue to show good defense and minimise French scores then come through late to win.

In practice France will still score and England can't manufacture tries because there is no running threat, which is needed to score or make space for others.

Except when France start to flag they replace their whole front five and the replacements are only slightly lower quality that the starters.
The days of French teams being unfit are gone.

If Ireland beat Scotland and get a bonus point win.

Will France just have to win against England and no bonus point win. Or would France have to get a bonus point against England to win the Grand Slam?

majesticimperialman wrote:If Ireland beat Scotland and get a bonus point win.

Will France just have to win against England and no bonus point win. Or would France have to get a bonus point against England to win the Grand Slam?

France haven't lost. Win and they are in.

You get bonus points for winning a Grand Slam Madge. I am surprised you didn’t know that.

doctor_grey wrote:...

By the way, in the off chance England actually win, then what do we say????

Depends on the performance I guess. France have a really bad off day, or England pack strangle the life out of them, and I'll be happy with the win but it won't eliminate the fact there are issues in attack - and those issues will come back to bite us in future if not sorted.

If however England surprise by ripping the French defence to shreds and scoring a bucket full of tries - then hat's off to them, and credit where it's due to the coaches (one swallow does not a summer make... but it's better than no swallows).

Perhaps a useful barometer of England's attacking game plan after the match will be 'Who scores the most/most tries in their games against France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales?' - England or Italy? Italy clearly have massive defence issues of their own and we got a bunch of scores against them - but if they can score more (despite all their other issues) in the other matches, that would surely be something of an indictment of the English attacking game. So far it is 4-2 in Italy's favour for tries, and 55-38 to England in terms of points.

The thing that worries me is that if England pull off the unlikely and beat France, it will cement in Jones' head that Youngs is great, Steward is a winger, Slade is a 12 and Jones is always right.

Progress = None.

Mr Bounce wrote:The thing that worries me is that if England pull off the unlikely and beat France, it will cement in Jones' head that Youngs is great, Steward is a winger, Slade is a 12 and Jones is always right.

Progress = None.

Quite possibly but better a win than a loss? If England do win - unlikely I think - then maybe Jones deserves credit for the "grand plan"?

Anyway, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Eng need to win first then we can decide if it was a good or bad thing.


*For what it 's worth I think Jones selections of Furbank at 15, Steward on wing and Daly are terrible. Youngs I can understand given situation, don't agree but understand.

Youngs is baffling. His kicking has been worse than Randall, he snipes less, his pass is worse. Defensively, Randall has had no issues. Youngs has a lot of caps and thus experience I guess. Would be nice for him to show it soon.

Mr Bounce wrote:The thing that worries me is that if England pull off the unlikely and beat France, it will cement in Jones' head that Youngs is great, Steward is a winger, Slade is a 12 and Jones is always right.

Progress = None.

Not having a laugh at your expense, mate:  But only in the context of the current England situation are we worried about an England win. And I agree, at least about reaffirming Youngs, Steward out of position, Slade out of position, Daly, and so on. I still can't get past that having a second row of Lawes and Itoje was very effective and we are not sticking with it.

Wales
Ireland
France

All at home this week so in theory all home teams should win.
Could there be an upset, err yes i guess If France play like they did against Wales, and England play like they did against Ireland when they was down to 14 men.

But in all honesty it will take a tremendous effort from England and i have not seen any thing this 6ns to suggest they can do that.

Could Scotland up set Ireland? I really don't see it happening.

So it will be France winners, Ireland second, the rest toss a coin.

Wow.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wow.

can I quote you?

Looks like it.

doctor_grey wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:The thing that worries me is that if England pull off the unlikely and beat France, it will cement in Jones' head that Youngs is great, Steward is a winger, Slade is a 12 and Jones is always right.

Progress = None.

Not having a laugh at your expense, mate:  But only in the context of the current England situation are we worried about an England win. And I agree, at least about reaffirming Youngs, Steward out of position, Slade out of position, Daly, and so on.  I still can't get past that having a second row of Lawes and Itoje was very effective and we are not sticking with it.

No offence taken Doc! Just shows what deep water we're currently in...

Mr Bounce wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Mr Bounce wrote:The thing that worries me is that if England pull off the unlikely and beat France, it will cement in Jones' head that Youngs is great, Steward is a winger, Slade is a 12 and Jones is always right.

Progress = None.

Not having a laugh at your expense, mate:  But only in the context of the current England situation are we worried about an England win. And I agree, at least about reaffirming Youngs, Steward out of position, Slade out of position, Daly, and so on.  I still can't get past that having a second row of Lawes and Itoje was very effective and we are not sticking with it.

No offence taken Doc! Just shows what deep water we're currently in...

majesticimperialman wrote:

So it will be France winners, Ireland second, the rest toss a coin.

Thank God you came up with that. We just as well tell the Six Nations committee to do away with the table now and just toss a coin. If only you had spoken sooner, maybe we could’ve witnessed a different result and Italy might’ve won the whole tournament. All this number of wins, points difference etcetera, doesn’t do a lot for me either.

I know this is at least a few hundred miles off topic, but I don't care about points difference at all.  If a team has the most wins, or maybe now the most win/bonus points they are the tournament winners.  Everyone else lost, whether finishing from second to sixth.  It's all the same from a tournament perspective.  One winner and everyone else lost and the position below the winner is almost irrelevant.  

If two teams have the same wins or win/bonus points then they should be co-winners.  Piling up points against weaker teams and have that as the deciding factor about who wins the tournament, to me, shows an utter lack of class and respect. Not in keeping of what we, maybe used to, think was part of the values in our sport.

Now this is very different than watching the teams play and seeing the various reasons why teams lose.  And, unfortunately in the case of Mother England, those reasons are deep and wide.

Watched the Squidgerugby review of the Ireland game and I'm even more certain Jones has Frak up this 6Ns and he realises it. Our new attack system of no structure has been a complete failure and that has to be laid at his and the backs/attack coaches feet.

This selection shows he hopefully realises it at least and is looking to go all 2016 damage limitation and power game to bully the French before starting a whole new revolution again in the summer. I can see it working tbh.

The question is how many revolutions can we have and how many times can we ditch players before we realise it's maybe not the players selected that have been holding the team back since 2019.

I got all excited when I seen Malins wasn't playing wing.....the seen we've brought back Furbank....Furbank! How is he still even under consideration???

At least our wingers couldn't get any slower after the Nowell/Malins combo.....Eddie, hold my beer.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I got all excited when I seen Malins wasn't playing wing.....the seen we've brought back Furbank....Furbank! How is he still even under consideration???

At least our wingers couldn't get any slower after the Nowell/Malins combo.....Eddie, hold my beer.

You're not the first to ask that! Fair play to Jones he likes to spring the odd surprise, problem is they are almost always nasty ones.

Well boys and boyettes.  Today is the day and there ain't nuthin' to do but sit and wait and see how this plays out.  Need to park our doubts and let Eddie be Eddie.  Tyburn ain't going nowhere.  

For me, playing my first Rugby of the spring season at 1:00pm.  Despite being in NJ, the weather is very England-like.  Misty, drizzle, and muck.  Then muddy, dirty, and since I am sub in the pack today, smelling bad, we truck over to the place where we watch the fiasco.....ooops, I mean the game.   If the game gets out of hand, I promised all the England supporters anesthesia (in a golden liquid form).  

GSTQ

Yeah. Still hope it may be a good game. Its not been a good tournament for the attack though even if something comes off today.

Well we're at least 1 place better than last year.

By the way, do we have a fast, mazy, back three player to turn the match on its head?

I honestly don't care about winning or losing this game. I just hope it isn't a dirge. If France put us to the Épée so be it. I just want to watch some great rugby

Rugby Fan wrote:By the way, do we have a fast, mazy, back three player to turn the match on its head?

No he's in Newcastle.....

3rd it is!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:3rd it is!

Well if we get 4th from here I think Jones is getting sacked.