Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[ralphjohn69]

First topic message reminder :

It's not logic. Most pot 4 teams are no worse than Rangers. If Rangers were the worst ever pot 4 team last year, what makes them any better now?

Because instead of playing another Pot 3 team they will be playing a Pot 4 team, who will probably be worse than a Pot 3 team so they have a better chance of getting 3rd, although it's obviously not guaranteed. You really don't help yourself when you post about football....

[the-goon]

And still you can't answer a simple question...

So is ok for a black man to say his favourite drink is white male tears? And should he be allowed to stand for elected office?

I know why you aren't answering, it's because you can't.

If it is ok. Then racism is fine if directed towards whites. And I'm right.

If it's not ok. Why are you supporting a racist party? And why aren't you calling it out? Because racism is like the worst crime ever for you guys. And then I'm right about labour.

Tough place to be in when you're desperate to prove me wrong...

Personally, while I think it's a dumb thing to say, and especially for someone campaigning to become an MP, I can understand based on the historical context re. slavery etc etc. We're also missing the context here re. this remark, but then you know that.

Should he be allowed to stand? That's up to the Labour Party, I guess, as per their Party rules etc. He could stand as an independent in any case, so "should he be allowed to stand for elected office" in general terms? Yes, and the relevant electorate will no doubt decide whom they want to represent them.

Slavery?? That was ended by whites. Brits in fact. 100's of years ago.

So blacks enslave blacks, sell them to whites. Whites then decide to be 1st group of ppl to think it's wrong; go to war with black kingdoms to stop blacks from enslaving other blacks. But it's all white ppl's fault? Is that the context?

Ok, so by that logic, since over 1 million white Europeans were enslaved by Muslims a few hundred years ago, it's ok for native europeans to be bigoted towards Muslims?

That's your logic.

Glad we have solved islamophobia, it's just about context.

[the-goon]

Why? Are the grooming gangs a myth to you?...

Try some broader reading, instead of within your normal echo chamber?

‘Muslim Grooming Gangs’ – An Old Conspiracy Mainstreamed by Today’s Politicians and Press

Some broader reading for you too:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/the-media-still-wont-speak-the-truth-about-grooming-gangs/

That 2020 report also doesn't make sense.

1. It was able to conclude that the majority of offenders were white. Ok, fine. The UK is 85% white. Makes sense.
2. Not enough evidence to say any particular ethnic group is overrepresented. But wait, that would imply you don't have enough data of perpetrators by race, then how can you claim statement 1.??
3. Does the left understand PER CAPITA?

[navyblueshorts]

And still you can't answer a simple question...

So is ok for a black man to say his favourite drink is white male tears? And should he be allowed to stand for elected office?

I know why you aren't answering, it's because you can't.

If it is ok. Then racism is fine if directed towards whites. And I'm right.

If it's not ok. Why are you supporting a racist party? And why aren't you calling it out? Because racism is like the worst crime ever for you guys. And then I'm right about labour.

Tough place to be in when you're desperate to prove me wrong...

Personally, while I think it's a dumb thing to say, and especially for someone campaigning to become an MP, I can understand based on the historical context re. slavery etc etc. We're also missing the context here re. this remark, but then you know that.

Should he be allowed to stand? That's up to the Labour Party, I guess, as per their Party rules etc. He could stand as an independent in any case, so "should he be allowed to stand for elected office" in general terms? Yes, and the relevant electorate will no doubt decide whom they want to represent them.

Slavery?? That was ended by whites. Brits in fact. 100's of years ago.

So blacks enslave blacks, sell them to whites. Whites then decide to be 1st group of ppl to think it's wrong; go to war with black kingdoms to stop blacks from enslaving other blacks. But it's all white ppl's fault? Is that the context?

Ok, so by that logic, since over 1 million white Europeans were enslaved by Muslims a few hundred years ago, it's ok for native europeans to be bigoted towards Muslims?

That's your logic.

Glad we have solved islamophobia, it's just about context.

Of note that you respond only to the part of my comment re. slavery re. this candidate, and not on whether standing as a candidate for MP is reasonable. I don't necessarily disagree w/ your broader contextualising re. slavery in its totality over recorded history and in the present, but that's beside the point here and whataboutery.

I think your logic re. Islamophobia is pretty absurd. Understandable, but absurd and somewhat childish.

[navyblueshorts]

Why? Are the grooming gangs a myth to you?...

Try some broader reading, instead of within your normal echo chamber?

‘Muslim Grooming Gangs’ – An Old Conspiracy Mainstreamed by Today’s Politicians and Press

Some broader reading for you too:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/the-media-still-wont-speak-the-truth-about-grooming-gangs/

That 2020 report also doesn't make sense.

1. It was able to conclude that the majority of offenders were white. Ok, fine. The UK is 85% white. Makes sense.
2. Not enough evidence to say any particular ethnic group is overrepresented. But wait, that would imply you don't have enough data of perpetrators by race, then how can you claim statement 1.??
3. Does the left understand PER CAPITA?

Thanks for the link.

The data was mixed, but where it was robust enough, it was typically the case that majority offenders were white. It's also careful to make various statements that don't say certain ethnicities aren't over-represented. What one can't do from this, though, is extrapolate in the fashion that you, and too many others, appear to do along purely ethnic lines.

Yes, of course 'the left' understand per capita, but you knew that.

As you're clearly not a golfer, I'm going to ask once that if you wish to continue this conversation, it's done so in the 'Off Topic' section in an appropriate thread.

[super_realist]

Why? Are the grooming gangs a myth to you?...

Try some broader reading, instead of within your normal echo chamber?

‘Muslim Grooming Gangs’ – An Old Conspiracy Mainstreamed by Today’s Politicians and Press

Some broader reading for you too:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/the-media-still-wont-speak-the-truth-about-grooming-gangs/

That 2020 report also doesn't make sense.

1. It was able to conclude that the majority of offenders were white. Ok, fine. The UK is 85% white. Makes sense.
2. Not enough evidence to say any particular ethnic group is overrepresented. But wait, that would imply you don't have enough data of perpetrators by race, then how can you claim statement 1.??
3. Does the left understand PER CAPITA?

Thanks for the link.

The data was mixed, but where it was robust enough, it was typically the case that majority offenders were white. It's also careful to make various statements that don't say certain ethnicities aren't over-represented. What one can't do from this, though, is extrapolate in the fashion that you, and too many others, appear to do along purely ethnic lines.

Yes, of course 'the left' understand per capita, but you knew that.

As you're clearly not a golfer, I'm going to ask once that if you wish to continue this conversation, it's done so in the 'Off Topic' section in an appropriate thread.

The point which is being missed here, is not the number of these grooming gangs, or the ethnicity of some but the simple fact that the Police and law enforcement deliberately hampered their own investigations in order NOT to appear "Islamaphobic" or "racist".
Worth looking into the work of Maggie Oliver on this abject failure of policing.

[JAS]

I think the big point that’s being missed here is the exploitation of hideous crimes for the purposes of political point scoring. Do you think any victims of abuse will be watching in and cheering?? NO!! To start politicising, racialising those crimes is an insult to the victims. Those crimes are perpetrated across the political and racial spectrum so Poopie stirring against any ethnic grouping achieves nothing but division…oh wait, that was probably the intention

[super_realist]

I think the big point that’s being missed here is the exploitation of hideous crimes for the purposes of political point scoring. Do you think any victims of abuse will be watching in and cheering?? NO!! To start politicising, racialising those crimes is an insult to the victims. Those crimes are perpetrated across the political and racial spectrum so Poopie stirring against any ethnic grouping achieves nothing but division…oh wait, that was probably the intention

No one is suggesting that abuse doesn't transcend all cultures and ethnicities.
Not arresting perpetrators BECAUSE they might be a certain race or religion has been a big problem JAS.
No grooming gangs should be treated any differently, there should be no punches pulled and they should be hit immediately with the full force of the law regardless of ethnicity or race but frequently that hasn't happened due to woke policing which has allowed grooming gangs to continue and prolonging suffering of victims for fear of being labelled racist. That's unacceptable.
As for division being sewn, certain communities don't help themselves do they?

[navyblueshorts]

I think the big point that’s being missed here is the exploitation of hideous crimes for the purposes of political point scoring. Do you think any victims of abuse will be watching in and cheering?? NO!! To start politicising, racialising those crimes is an insult to the victims. Those crimes are perpetrated across the political and racial spectrum so Poopie stirring against any ethnic grouping achieves nothing but division…oh wait, that was probably the intention

No one is suggesting that abuse doesn't transcend all cultures and ethnicities.
Not arresting perpetrators BECAUSE they might be a certain race or religion has been a  big problem JAS.
No grooming gangs should be treated any differently, there should be no punches pulled and they should be hit immediately with the full force of the law regardless of ethnicity or race but frequently that hasn't happened due to woke policing which has allowed grooming gangs to continue and prolonging suffering of victims for fear of being labelled racist. That's unacceptable.
As for division being sewn, certain communities don't help themselves do they?

Apologies. Can you point to a definitive source that confirms this, please? Had a bit of a look, but can't find anything that specific; probably me. Only really found stuff saying that some police didn't always do their jobs properly, which can mean a lot of different things.

[the-goon]

And still you can't answer a simple question...

So is ok for a black man to say his favourite drink is white male tears? And should he be allowed to stand for elected office?

I know why you aren't answering, it's because you can't.

If it is ok. Then racism is fine if directed towards whites. And I'm right.

If it's not ok. Why are you supporting a racist party? And why aren't you calling it out? Because racism is like the worst crime ever for you guys. And then I'm right about labour.

Tough place to be in when you're desperate to prove me wrong...

Personally, while I think it's a dumb thing to say, and especially for someone campaigning to become an MP, I can understand based on the historical context re. slavery etc etc. We're also missing the context here re. this remark, but then you know that.

Should he be allowed to stand? That's up to the Labour Party, I guess, as per their Party rules etc. He could stand as an independent in any case, so "should he be allowed to stand for elected office" in general terms? Yes, and the relevant electorate will no doubt decide whom they want to represent them.

Slavery?? That was ended by whites. Brits in fact. 100's of years ago.

So blacks enslave blacks, sell them to whites. Whites then decide to be 1st group of ppl to think it's wrong; go to war with black kingdoms to stop blacks from enslaving other blacks. But it's all white ppl's fault? Is that the context?

Ok, so by that logic, since over 1 million white Europeans were enslaved by Muslims a few hundred years ago, it's ok for native europeans to be bigoted towards Muslims?

That's your logic.

Glad we have solved islamophobia, it's just about context.

Of note that you respond only to the part of my comment re. slavery re. this candidate, and not on whether standing as a candidate for MP is reasonable. I don't necessarily disagree w/ your broader contextualising re. slavery in its totality over recorded history and in the present, but that's beside the point here and whataboutery.

I think your logic re. Islamophobia is pretty absurd. Understandable, but absurd and somewhat childish.

My post wasn't a dig at you in fairness. I think you are right that the context which led to this guy talking about white ppl in such a degrading manner are the lies of slavery, discrimination etc that excuse black failure in our society.

My point about Islamic slavery also highlights how the left allow non-whites can use historic grievances to excuse hate whites, but whites can't do the same. This is done through ignorance of history and left-wing cowardice in standing up to bad behaviour of non-whites out of fear of being called racist.

"Anti-racist" CRT asserts that all whites are racist, and there is no amount of pandering that can wash away that original sin. I guess the question is, when the revolution comes via demographic changes, will you be spared because you were one of the "allies"?

[JAS]

I think the big point that’s being missed here is the exploitation of hideous crimes for the purposes of political point scoring. Do you think any victims of abuse will be watching in and cheering?? NO!! To start politicising, racialising those crimes is an insult to the victims. Those crimes are perpetrated across the political and racial spectrum so Poopie stirring against any ethnic grouping achieves nothing but division…oh wait, that was probably the intention

No one is suggesting that abuse doesn't transcend all cultures and ethnicities.
Not arresting perpetrators BECAUSE they might be a certain race or religion has been a  big problem JAS.
No grooming gangs should be treated any differently, there should be no punches pulled and they should be hit immediately with the full force of the law regardless of ethnicity or race but frequently that hasn't happened due to woke policing which has allowed grooming gangs to continue and prolonging suffering of victims for fear of being labelled racist. That's unacceptable.
As for division being sewn, certain communities don't help themselves do they?

You might think “no one is suggesting” but the whole implication of trying to assert a “fact” that can’t actually be verified is doing EXACTLY that. I could easily also assert my assumption the it’s more likely that senior officials did not grip the situation the way they should have because they were either in on it or had something similar to hide that would make them blackmailable. That would have eff all to do with the alleged wokeness that you’re trying to assert. Because I don’t have the full facts however I wouldn’t try and pass my assumption off as “fact”

[the-goon]

I think the big point that’s being missed here is the exploitation of hideous crimes for the purposes of political point scoring. Do you think any victims of abuse will be watching in and cheering?? NO!! To start politicising, racialising those crimes is an insult to the victims. Those crimes are perpetrated across the political and racial spectrum so Poopie stirring against any ethnic grouping achieves nothing but division…oh wait, that was probably the intention

No one is suggesting that abuse doesn't transcend all cultures and ethnicities.
Not arresting perpetrators BECAUSE they might be a certain race or religion has been a  big problem JAS.
No grooming gangs should be treated any differently, there should be no punches pulled and they should be hit immediately with the full force of the law regardless of ethnicity or race but frequently that hasn't happened due to woke policing which has allowed grooming gangs to continue and prolonging suffering of victims for fear of being labelled racist. That's unacceptable.
As for division being sewn, certain communities don't help themselves do they?

Apologies. Can you point to a definitive source that confirms this, please? Had a bit of a look, but can't find anything that specific; probably me. Only really found stuff saying that some police didn't always do their jobs properly, which can mean a lot of different things.

Just read the wikipedia entry for the rotherham grooming gang scandal. It's heavily referenced if you want more information. How the police acted (or didn't) isn't unique to Rotherham.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

It's also simply intuitive as well. Everything is racist, and that has been the case for decades. And for whites, that label destroys your life. Everyone knows this, including groomers.

[the-goon]

I think the big point that’s being missed here is the exploitation of hideous crimes for the purposes of political point scoring. Do you think any victims of abuse will be watching in and cheering?? NO!! To start politicising, racialising those crimes is an insult to the victims. Those crimes are perpetrated across the political and racial spectrum so Poopie stirring against any ethnic grouping achieves nothing but division…oh wait, that was probably the intention

No one is suggesting that abuse doesn't transcend all cultures and ethnicities.
Not arresting perpetrators BECAUSE they might be a certain race or religion has been a  big problem JAS.
No grooming gangs should be treated any differently, there should be no punches pulled and they should be hit immediately with the full force of the law regardless of ethnicity or race but frequently that hasn't happened due to woke policing which has allowed grooming gangs to continue and prolonging suffering of victims for fear of being labelled racist. That's unacceptable.
As for division being sewn, certain communities don't help themselves do they?

You might think “no one is suggesting” but the whole implication of trying to assert a “fact” that can’t actually be verified is doing EXACTLY that.  I could easily also assert my assumption the it’s more likely that senior officials did not grip the situation the way they should have because they were either in on it or had something similar to hide that would make them blackmailable. That would have eff all to do with the alleged wokeness that you’re trying to assert. Because I don’t have the full facts however I wouldn’t try and pass my assumption off as “fact”

If only you had that high bar for proof when an accusation of racism or bigotry is trotted out against a political opponent...

[JAS]

I think the big point that’s being missed here is the exploitation of hideous crimes for the purposes of political point scoring. Do you think any victims of abuse will be watching in and cheering?? NO!! To start politicising, racialising those crimes is an insult to the victims. Those crimes are perpetrated across the political and racial spectrum so Poopie stirring against any ethnic grouping achieves nothing but division…oh wait, that was probably the intention

No one is suggesting that abuse doesn't transcend all cultures and ethnicities.
Not arresting perpetrators BECAUSE they might be a certain race or religion has been a  big problem JAS.
No grooming gangs should be treated any differently, there should be no punches pulled and they should be hit immediately with the full force of the law regardless of ethnicity or race but frequently that hasn't happened due to woke policing which has allowed grooming gangs to continue and prolonging suffering of victims for fear of being labelled racist. That's unacceptable.
As for division being sewn, certain communities don't help themselves do they?

You might think “no one is suggesting” but the whole implication of trying to assert a “fact” that can’t actually be verified is doing EXACTLY that.  I could easily also assert my assumption the it’s more likely that senior officials did not grip the situation the way they should have because they were either in on it or had something similar to hide that would make them blackmailable. That would have eff all to do with the alleged wokeness that you’re trying to assert. Because I don’t have the full facts however I wouldn’t try and pass my assumption off as “fact”

If only you had that high bar for proof when an accusation of racism or bigotry is trotted out against a political opponent...

...and if only you had a lower bar for accepting the idea that immigration is not the primary cause of the mess the country is in. Billionaires that have feathered their nests for the past few years and divided the working class over issues like immigration must absolutely love you.

[the-goon]

I think the big point that’s being missed here is the exploitation of hideous crimes for the purposes of political point scoring. Do you think any victims of abuse will be watching in and cheering?? NO!! To start politicising, racialising those crimes is an insult to the victims. Those crimes are perpetrated across the political and racial spectrum so Poopie stirring against any ethnic grouping achieves nothing but division…oh wait, that was probably the intention

No one is suggesting that abuse doesn't transcend all cultures and ethnicities.
Not arresting perpetrators BECAUSE they might be a certain race or religion has been a  big problem JAS.
No grooming gangs should be treated any differently, there should be no punches pulled and they should be hit immediately with the full force of the law regardless of ethnicity or race but frequently that hasn't happened due to woke policing which has allowed grooming gangs to continue and prolonging suffering of victims for fear of being labelled racist. That's unacceptable.
As for division being sewn, certain communities don't help themselves do they?

You might think “no one is suggesting” but the whole implication of trying to assert a “fact” that can’t actually be verified is doing EXACTLY that.  I could easily also assert my assumption the it’s more likely that senior officials did not grip the situation the way they should have because they were either in on it or had something similar to hide that would make them blackmailable. That would have eff all to do with the alleged wokeness that you’re trying to assert. Because I don’t have the full facts however I wouldn’t try and pass my assumption off as “fact”

If only you had that high bar for proof when an accusation of racism or bigotry is trotted out against a political opponent...

...and if only you had a lower bar for accepting the idea that immigration is not the primary cause of the mess the country is in. Billionaires that have feathered their nests for the past few years and divided the working class over issues like immigration must absolutely love you.

What?? That doesn't even make sense.

Yes, the elite in this country have benefited greatly from mass immigration. They get to pay lower wages because of the greater supply of workers (even if many migrants don't come to work), their real estate goes up due to surging demand for places to live. 85% of the population growth in the UK is due to immigration.

As for costs of immigration, they don't pay. That's on the middle class.
Increased crime - they live in gated, all white communities (interesting that, diversity for thee but not me me)
Strain on public services - they use private
Rising Living costs - they are the asset owner, not the asset renter. So it's quids in for them.
Rising taxes to fund the welfare spending - come on you know the score...

It also creates a dependent voter base who can be easily bribed with more welfare; who aren't aware (or don't care) of the long term damage of excessive unfunded government spending.

[navyblueshorts]

And still you can't answer a simple question...

So is ok for a black man to say his favourite drink is white male tears? And should he be allowed to stand for elected office?

I know why you aren't answering, it's because you can't.

If it is ok. Then racism is fine if directed towards whites. And I'm right.

If it's not ok. Why are you supporting a racist party? And why aren't you calling it out? Because racism is like the worst crime ever for you guys. And then I'm right about labour.

Tough place to be in when you're desperate to prove me wrong...

Personally, while I think it's a dumb thing to say, and especially for someone campaigning to become an MP, I can understand based on the historical context re. slavery etc etc. We're also missing the context here re. this remark, but then you know that.

Should he be allowed to stand? That's up to the Labour Party, I guess, as per their Party rules etc. He could stand as an independent in any case, so "should he be allowed to stand for elected office" in general terms? Yes, and the relevant electorate will no doubt decide whom they want to represent them.

Slavery?? That was ended by whites. Brits in fact. 100's of years ago.

So blacks enslave blacks, sell them to whites. Whites then decide to be 1st group of ppl to think it's wrong; go to war with black kingdoms to stop blacks from enslaving other blacks. But it's all white ppl's fault? Is that the context?

Ok, so by that logic, since over 1 million white Europeans were enslaved by Muslims a few hundred years ago, it's ok for native europeans to be bigoted towards Muslims?

That's your logic.

Glad we have solved islamophobia, it's just about context.

Of note that you respond only to the part of my comment re. slavery re. this candidate, and not on whether standing as a candidate for MP is reasonable. I don't necessarily disagree w/ your broader contextualising re. slavery in its totality over recorded history and in the present, but that's beside the point here and whataboutery.

I think your logic re. Islamophobia is pretty absurd. Understandable, but absurd and somewhat childish.

My post wasn't a dig at you in fairness. I think you are right that the context which led to this guy talking about white ppl in such a degrading manner are the lies of slavery, discrimination etc that excuse black failure in our society.

My point about Islamic slavery also highlights how the left allow non-whites can use historic grievances to excuse hate whites, but whites can't do the same. This is done through ignorance of history and left-wing cowardice in standing up to bad behaviour of non-whites out of fear of being called racist.

"Anti-racist" CRT asserts that all whites are racist, and there is no amount of pandering that can wash away that original sin. I guess the question is, when the revolution comes via demographic changes, will you be spared because you were one of the "allies"?

You disgust me. You deliberately misrepresent what I posted and the rest is dogmatic bile.

I asked you once, quite nicely I felt, to continue this in the 'Off Topic' section in a suitable thread heading that's directly relevant, or that you have started. Please do so from now on.

[JAS]

I think the big point that’s being missed here is the exploitation of hideous crimes for the purposes of political point scoring. Do you think any victims of abuse will be watching in and cheering?? NO!! To start politicising, racialising those crimes is an insult to the victims. Those crimes are perpetrated across the political and racial spectrum so Poopie stirring against any ethnic grouping achieves nothing but division…oh wait, that was probably the intention

No one is suggesting that abuse doesn't transcend all cultures and ethnicities.
Not arresting perpetrators BECAUSE they might be a certain race or religion has been a  big problem JAS.
No grooming gangs should be treated any differently, there should be no punches pulled and they should be hit immediately with the full force of the law regardless of ethnicity or race but frequently that hasn't happened due to woke policing which has allowed grooming gangs to continue and prolonging suffering of victims for fear of being labelled racist. That's unacceptable.
As for division being sewn, certain communities don't help themselves do they?

You might think “no one is suggesting” but the whole implication of trying to assert a “fact” that can’t actually be verified is doing EXACTLY that.  I could easily also assert my assumption the it’s more likely that senior officials did not grip the situation the way they should have because they were either in on it or had something similar to hide that would make them blackmailable. That would have eff all to do with the alleged wokeness that you’re trying to assert. Because I don’t have the full facts however I wouldn’t try and pass my assumption off as “fact”

If only you had that high bar for proof when an accusation of racism or bigotry is trotted out against a political opponent...

...and if only you had a lower bar for accepting the idea that immigration is not the primary cause of the mess the country is in. Billionaires that have feathered their nests for the past few years and divided the working class over issues like immigration must absolutely love you.

What?? That doesn't even make sense.

Yes, the elite in this country have benefited greatly from mass immigration. They get to pay lower wages because of the greater supply of workers (even if many migrants don't come to work), their real estate goes up due to surging demand for places to live. 85% of the population growth in the UK is due to immigration.

As for costs of immigration, they don't pay. That's on the middle class.
Increased crime - they live in gated, all white communities (interesting that, diversity for thee but not me me)
Strain on public services - they use private
Rising Living costs - they are the asset owner, not the asset renter. So it's quids in for them.
Rising taxes to fund the welfare spending - come on you know the score...

It also creates a dependent voter base who can be easily bribed with more welfare; who aren't aware (or don't care) of the long term damage of excessive unfunded government spending.

Doesn't make sense because you don't agree? don't understand the point I'm trying to make?

So we agree that the elite are at the very least complicit in the mess that we are in and you've touched on area I agree 100% on particularly re assets and them being quids in, also re the race to the bottom on wages for working people.

What bends my brain is...why don't you direct your ire at the billionaires gaming the system rather than ordinary people like you and me (that will probably grind your gears but think about it) struggling to get by in the world and make things better for themselves and their families. It's NOT the Left (be it Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC) that's been enabling billionaires and multinational corporates to bleed the public purse for the past 14 years, it's the Tories and Reform in a nutshell are just a Tory tribute act to the right of them trotting out the same divisive line that immigration is the problem when in fact it is the high end of the asset owning class raking in billions and squirrelling it away in tax havens and telling all who'll listen is that the problem is skint people in small boats...you couldn't make it up!!

[Duty281]

" Reform in a nutshell are just a Tory tribute act "

Reform are the opposites of the Tories in so many areas, so this continued insistence of the above by some is just bizarre.

[the-goon]

And still you can't answer a simple question...

So is ok for a black man to say his favourite drink is white male tears? And should he be allowed to stand for elected office?

I know why you aren't answering, it's because you can't.

If it is ok. Then racism is fine if directed towards whites. And I'm right.

If it's not ok. Why are you supporting a racist party? And why aren't you calling it out? Because racism is like the worst crime ever for you guys. And then I'm right about labour.

Tough place to be in when you're desperate to prove me wrong...

Personally, while I think it's a dumb thing to say, and especially for someone campaigning to become an MP, I can understand based on the historical context re. slavery etc etc. We're also missing the context here re. this remark, but then you know that.

Should he be allowed to stand? That's up to the Labour Party, I guess, as per their Party rules etc. He could stand as an independent in any case, so "should he be allowed to stand for elected office" in general terms? Yes, and the relevant electorate will no doubt decide whom they want to represent them.

Slavery?? That was ended by whites. Brits in fact. 100's of years ago.

So blacks enslave blacks, sell them to whites. Whites then decide to be 1st group of ppl to think it's wrong; go to war with black kingdoms to stop blacks from enslaving other blacks. But it's all white ppl's fault? Is that the context?

Ok, so by that logic, since over 1 million white Europeans were enslaved by Muslims a few hundred years ago, it's ok for native europeans to be bigoted towards Muslims?

That's your logic.

Glad we have solved islamophobia, it's just about context.

Of note that you respond only to the part of my comment re. slavery re. this candidate, and not on whether standing as a candidate for MP is reasonable. I don't necessarily disagree w/ your broader contextualising re. slavery in its totality over recorded history and in the present, but that's beside the point here and whataboutery.

I think your logic re. Islamophobia is pretty absurd. Understandable, but absurd and somewhat childish.

My post wasn't a dig at you in fairness. I think you are right that the context which led to this guy talking about white ppl in such a degrading manner are the lies of slavery, discrimination etc that excuse black failure in our society.

My point about Islamic slavery also highlights how the left allow non-whites can use historic grievances to excuse hate whites, but whites can't do the same. This is done through ignorance of history and left-wing cowardice in standing up to bad behaviour of non-whites out of fear of being called racist.

"Anti-racist" CRT asserts that all whites are racist, and there is no amount of pandering that can wash away that original sin. I guess the question is, when the revolution comes via demographic changes, will you be spared because you were one of the "allies"?

You disgust me. You deliberately misrepresent what I posted and the rest is dogmatic bile.

I asked you once, quite nicely I felt, to continue this in the 'Off Topic' section in a suitable thread heading that's directly relevant, or that you have started. Please do so from now on.

And yet all I say is 100% true...

This is an anything goes thread as far as I am aware, and seems to be only politics so I don't see what I'm posting isn't relevent.

[the-goon]

Doesn't make sense because you don't agree? don't understand the point I'm trying to make?

So we agree that the elite are at the very least complicit in the mess that we are in and you've touched on area I agree 100% on particularly re assets and them being quids in, also re the race to the bottom on wages for working people.

What bends my brain is...why don't you direct your ire at the billionaires gaming the system rather than ordinary people like you and me (that will probably grind your gears but think about it) struggling to get by in the world and make things better for themselves and their families. It's NOT the Left (be it Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, SNP, PC) that's been enabling billionaires and multinational corporates to bleed the public purse for the past 14 years, it's the Tories and Reform in a nutshell are just a Tory tribute act to the right of them trotting out the same divisive line that immigration is the problem when in fact it is the high end of the asset owning class raking in billions and squirrelling it away in tax havens and telling all who'll listen is that the problem is skint people in small boats...you couldn't make it up!!

1. Glad we agree with the elites gaming the system.

What you are conflating is I'm talking about immigration, the policy, not immigrants ,the ppl as well as the consequences of immigration, short and long term.

I understand fully why immigrants come here, and I don't blame them for it. However, I will blame an immigrant who commits a crime. Be it illegal entry, a petty crime or worse.  I blame those who create the conditions for it.

Immigration is what I talk about, the policy covers a wide range of policy failures, from creating incentives for immigrants to come here, to lack of border enforcement, to lack of criminal enforcement, to lack of deportation enforcement.

The Left are absolutely to blame. The left are agents of the billionaire class. You advocate exclusively for polices that enrich the elite. You are their brown shirts when the middle class voice any dissent. Antifa, Hope not Hate, Media class, etc.  You are useful idiots I'm afraid. All leftwing politics is based on the centralisation of power, you just can't see how you are captured by the very ppl you claim to hate.

- More welfare spending > increases government power > good for elites
- Mass immigration > More crime or ethnic tension > more laws/more enforcement/ more speech laws > good for elites
- Net zero > makes energy more expensive > great for big oil and energy firms, helps impoverish middle class > creates more dependents, lowers financial independence of population > good for elites
- COVID lockdowns > increased state power, inflation > less individual freedom, political and financial > good for elites (in fact the greatest wealth transfer from the poor to the rich in human history, way to stick it to the man there).
- Anti meat/ veganism > less healthy food > less healthy populace > they become weaker and more dependent > good for elites
 - > bankrupt independent farmers (kulaks) with regulation > state control of farms > good for elites
- State control of industry > who runs the government???? > good for elites

Need I go on? I can guarantee you support every single one of these policies above, yet you oppose the "billionaires"?

Oh, but you demand higher taxes?? A tax code to be written by those paid by the same elites? Guess who pays in the end, the middle class. Every time. The rich will always hire someone smarter than the guy who writes the tax code, or just bribes them.

The Tories are New Labour with a different skin suit who say a few things to outrage the left (to give the impression we don't operate in a Con-Lab uniparty) and box the right out of power.

[navyblueshorts]

And still you can't answer a simple question...

So is ok for a black man to say his favourite drink is white male tears? And should he be allowed to stand for elected office?

I know why you aren't answering, it's because you can't.

If it is ok. Then racism is fine if directed towards whites. And I'm right.

If it's not ok. Why are you supporting a racist party? And why aren't you calling it out? Because racism is like the worst crime ever for you guys. And then I'm right about labour.

Tough place to be in when you're desperate to prove me wrong...

Personally, while I think it's a dumb thing to say, and especially for someone campaigning to become an MP, I can understand based on the historical context re. slavery etc etc. We're also missing the context here re. this remark, but then you know that.

Should he be allowed to stand? That's up to the Labour Party, I guess, as per their Party rules etc. He could stand as an independent in any case, so "should he be allowed to stand for elected office" in general terms? Yes, and the relevant electorate will no doubt decide whom they want to represent them.

Slavery?? That was ended by whites. Brits in fact. 100's of years ago.

So blacks enslave blacks, sell them to whites. Whites then decide to be 1st group of ppl to think it's wrong; go to war with black kingdoms to stop blacks from enslaving other blacks. But it's all white ppl's fault? Is that the context?

Ok, so by that logic, since over 1 million white Europeans were enslaved by Muslims a few hundred years ago, it's ok for native europeans to be bigoted towards Muslims?

That's your logic.

Glad we have solved islamophobia, it's just about context.

Of note that you respond only to the part of my comment re. slavery re. this candidate, and not on whether standing as a candidate for MP is reasonable. I don't necessarily disagree w/ your broader contextualising re. slavery in its totality over recorded history and in the present, but that's beside the point here and whataboutery.

I think your logic re. Islamophobia is pretty absurd. Understandable, but absurd and somewhat childish.

My post wasn't a dig at you in fairness. I think you are right that the context which led to this guy talking about white ppl in such a degrading manner are the lies of slavery, discrimination etc that excuse black failure in our society.

My point about Islamic slavery also highlights how the left allow non-whites can use historic grievances to excuse hate whites, but whites can't do the same. This is done through ignorance of history and left-wing cowardice in standing up to bad behaviour of non-whites out of fear of being called racist.

"Anti-racist" CRT asserts that all whites are racist, and there is no amount of pandering that can wash away that original sin. I guess the question is, when the revolution comes via demographic changes, will you be spared because you were one of the "allies"?

You disgust me. You deliberately misrepresent what I posted and the rest is dogmatic bile.

I asked you once, quite nicely I felt, to continue this in the 'Off Topic' section in a suitable thread heading that's directly relevant, or that you have started. Please do so from now on.

And yet all I say is 100% true...

Only in your own head.

This is an anything goes thread as far as I am aware, and seems to be only politics so I don't see what I'm posting isn't relevent.

Your politics is clearly driven by racist ideology and you're a zealot. Enjoy talking to yourself, because I'm not interested anymore in fouling myself in conversation with you.

[JAS]

The left are agents of the billionaire class. You advocate exclusively for polices that enrich the elite. You are their brown shirts when the middle class voice any dissent. Antifa, Hope not Hate, Media class, etc.  You are useful idiots I'm afraid. All leftwing politics is based on the centralisation of power, you just can't see how you are captured by the very ppl you claim to hate.

- More welfare spending > increases government power > good for elites
- Mass immigration  > More crime or ethnic tension > more laws/more enforcement/ more speech laws > good for elites
- Net zero > makes energy more expensive > great for big oil and energy firms, helps impoverish middle class > creates more dependents, lowers financial independence of population > good for elites
- COVID lockdowns > increased state power, inflation > less individual freedom, political and financial > good for elites (in fact the greatest wealth transfer from the poor to the rich in human history, way to stick it to the man there).
- Anti meat/ veganism > less healthy food > less healthy populace > they become weaker and more dependent > good for elites
 -                               > bankrupt independent farmers (kulaks) with regulation > state control of farms > good for elites
- State control of industry > who runs the government???? > good for elites

…and you try to lecture me about conflating??

Need I go on?

No please don’t, at least not before you’ve given your head a good wobble.

Oh, but you demand higher taxes??

I don’t “demand” higher taxes, I believe, given the broken state of public services that higher taxes are required (at least temporarily) to repair the mess. Furthermore such tax increases should NOT come from the working and middle classes they should be raised from the multi millionaires, billionaires and global corporations who want to operate in our country, profit from British people but not pay taxes here. They’ve had it so good for so long and it’s way way past time they contributed in line with their wealth increases

[the-goon]

The left are agents of the billionaire class. You advocate exclusively for polices that enrich the elite. You are their brown shirts when the middle class voice any dissent. Antifa, Hope not Hate, Media class, etc.  You are useful idiots I'm afraid. All leftwing politics is based on the centralisation of power, you just can't see how you are captured by the very ppl you claim to hate.

- More welfare spending > increases government power > good for elites
- Mass immigration  > More crime or ethnic tension > more laws/more enforcement/ more speech laws > good for elites
- Net zero > makes energy more expensive > great for big oil and energy firms, helps impoverish middle class > creates more dependents, lowers financial independence of population > good for elites
- COVID lockdowns > increased state power, inflation > less individual freedom, political and financial > good for elites (in fact the greatest wealth transfer from the poor to the rich in human history, way to stick it to the man there).
- Anti meat/ veganism > less healthy food > less healthy populace > they become weaker and more dependent > good for elites
 -                               > bankrupt independent farmers (kulaks) with regulation > state control of farms > good for elites
- State control of industry > who runs the government???? > good for elites

…and you try to lecture me about conflating??

Need I go on?

No please don’t, at least not before you’ve given your head a good wobble.

Oh, but you demand higher taxes??

I don’t “demand” higher taxes, I believe, given the broken state of public services that higher taxes are required (at least temporarily) to repair the mess. Furthermore such tax increases should NOT come from the working and middle classes they should be raised from the multi millionaires, billionaires and global corporations who want to operate in our country, profit from British people but not pay taxes here. They’ve had it so good for so long and it’s way way past time they contributed in line with their wealth increases

And yet, the multi millionaires, billionaires and global corporations will not pay those taxes. They are wealthy enough to move money around so it doesn't impact them. And it will be the smaller companies, normal ppl who will caught by those taxes that foot the bill.
I see you wrote "should", no disagreement there. But it simply won't happen, and your naive idealism is exploited to push the tax burden onto small businesses and the middle class.
Then come the next election, whatever left wing flavour of the month, will "trust me bro", definitely, totally tax the rich this time. Real taxation hasn't been tried.
Just like what the Tories did with tackling immigration, say one thing, do the other. The difference is the right have finally past the hoax. Will reform actually do anything, TBD.

It's not like the public services aren't receiving record "investment" already (they are). It's that because of MASS IMMIGRATION, more ppl than the system can support are using them, and those new users overwhelmingly do not pay into the system what they take out.

[McLaren]

"Anti-racist" CRT asserts that all whites are racist, and there is no amount of pandering that can wash away that original sin.

This gets to the heart of the issue. Racists like goon are rightly offended when themselves or others are called racist but they are not offended for the right reasons.

All the "pandering" you are being asked to do is occasionally think about how you view or treat others, and accept that like everyone you will have inherent biases.

[JAS]

The left are agents of the billionaire class. You advocate exclusively for polices that enrich the elite. You are their brown shirts when the middle class voice any dissent. Antifa, Hope not Hate, Media class, etc.  You are useful idiots I'm afraid. All leftwing politics is based on the centralisation of power, you just can't see how you are captured by the very ppl you claim to hate.

- More welfare spending > increases government power > good for elites
- Mass immigration  > More crime or ethnic tension > more laws/more enforcement/ more speech laws > good for elites
- Net zero > makes energy more expensive > great for big oil and energy firms, helps impoverish middle class > creates more dependents, lowers financial independence of population > good for elites
- COVID lockdowns > increased state power, inflation > less individual freedom, political and financial > good for elites (in fact the greatest wealth transfer from the poor to the rich in human history, way to stick it to the man there).
- Anti meat/ veganism > less healthy food > less healthy populace > they become weaker and more dependent > good for elites
 -                               > bankrupt independent farmers (kulaks) with regulation > state control of farms > good for elites
- State control of industry > who runs the government???? > good for elites

…and you try to lecture me about conflating??

Need I go on?

No please don’t, at least not before you’ve given your head a good wobble.

Oh, but you demand higher taxes??

I don’t “demand” higher taxes, I believe, given the broken state of public services that higher taxes are required (at least temporarily) to repair the mess. Furthermore such tax increases should NOT come from the working and middle classes they should be raised from the multi millionaires, billionaires and global corporations who want to operate in our country, profit from British people but not pay taxes here. They’ve had it so good for so long and it’s way way past time they contributed in line with their wealth increases

And yet, the multi millionaires, billionaires and global corporations will not pay those taxes. They are wealthy enough to move money around so it doesn't impact them. And it will be the smaller companies, normal ppl who will caught by those taxes that foot the bill.
I see you wrote "should", no disagreement there. But it simply won't happen, and your naive idealism is exploited to push the tax burden onto small businesses and the middle class.
Then come the next election, whatever left wing flavour of the month, will "trust me bro", definitely, totally tax the rich this time.  Real taxation hasn't been tried.
Just like what the Tories did with tackling immigration, say one thing, do the other. The difference is the right have finally past the hoax. Will reform actually do anything, TBD.

It's not like the public services aren't receiving record "investment" already (they are). It's that because of MASS IMMIGRATION, more ppl than the system can support are using them, and those new users overwhelmingly do not pay into the system what they take out.

Naive idealism?? Coming from you and given some of the utterly unadulterated pish you spout…that is truly hilarious

[JAS]

"Anti-racist" CRT asserts that all whites are racist, and there is no amount of pandering that can wash away that original sin.

This gets to the heart of the issue. Racists like goon are rightly offended when themselves or others are called racist but they are not offended for the right reasons.

All the "pandering" you are being asked to do is occasionally think about how you view or treat others, and accept that like everyone you will have inherent biases.

Intolerant people don’t do “pandering” Mac.

I tried to engage non judgementally to have an honest conversation with him (must be the naive idealist in me) but you get to a point where you just know it’s pointless, hey ho.

[the-goon]

The left are agents of the billionaire class. You advocate exclusively for polices that enrich the elite. You are their brown shirts when the middle class voice any dissent. Antifa, Hope not Hate, Media class, etc.  You are useful idiots I'm afraid. All leftwing politics is based on the centralisation of power, you just can't see how you are captured by the very ppl you claim to hate.

- More welfare spending > increases government power > good for elites
- Mass immigration  > More crime or ethnic tension > more laws/more enforcement/ more speech laws > good for elites
- Net zero > makes energy more expensive > great for big oil and energy firms, helps impoverish middle class > creates more dependents, lowers financial independence of population > good for elites
- COVID lockdowns > increased state power, inflation > less individual freedom, political and financial > good for elites (in fact the greatest wealth transfer from the poor to the rich in human history, way to stick it to the man there).
- Anti meat/ veganism > less healthy food > less healthy populace > they become weaker and more dependent > good for elites
 -                               > bankrupt independent farmers (kulaks) with regulation > state control of farms > good for elites
- State control of industry > who runs the government???? > good for elites

…and you try to lecture me about conflating??

Need I go on?

No please don’t, at least not before you’ve given your head a good wobble.

Oh, but you demand higher taxes??

I don’t “demand” higher taxes, I believe, given the broken state of public services that higher taxes are required (at least temporarily) to repair the mess. Furthermore such tax increases should NOT come from the working and middle classes they should be raised from the multi millionaires, billionaires and global corporations who want to operate in our country, profit from British people but not pay taxes here. They’ve had it so good for so long and it’s way way past time they contributed in line with their wealth increases

And yet, the multi millionaires, billionaires and global corporations will not pay those taxes. They are wealthy enough to move money around so it doesn't impact them. And it will be the smaller companies, normal ppl who will caught by those taxes that foot the bill.
I see you wrote "should", no disagreement there. But it simply won't happen, and your naive idealism is exploited to push the tax burden onto small businesses and the middle class.
Then come the next election, whatever left wing flavour of the month, will "trust me bro", definitely, totally tax the rich this time.  Real taxation hasn't been tried.
Just like what the Tories did with tackling immigration, say one thing, do the other. The difference is the right have finally past the hoax. Will reform actually do anything, TBD.

It's not like the public services aren't receiving record "investment" already (they are). It's that because of MASS IMMIGRATION, more ppl than the system can support are using them, and those new users overwhelmingly do not pay into the system what they take out.

Naive idealism?? Coming from you and given some of the utterly unadulterated pish you spout…that is truly hilarious

How do you tax the ultra rich? Or the mega corporations? Explain how you would do it?

[the-goon]

The left are agents of the billionaire class. You advocate exclusively for polices that enrich the elite. You are their brown shirts when the middle class voice any dissent. Antifa, Hope not Hate, Media class, etc.  You are useful idiots I'm afraid. All leftwing politics is based on the centralisation of power, you just can't see how you are captured by the very ppl you claim to hate.

- More welfare spending > increases government power > good for elites
- Mass immigration  > More crime or ethnic tension > more laws/more enforcement/ more speech laws > good for elites
- Net zero > makes energy more expensive > great for big oil and energy firms, helps impoverish middle class > creates more dependents, lowers financial independence of population > good for elites
- COVID lockdowns > increased state power, inflation > less individual freedom, political and financial > good for elites (in fact the greatest wealth transfer from the poor to the rich in human history, way to stick it to the man there).
- Anti meat/ veganism > less healthy food > less healthy populace > they become weaker and more dependent > good for elites
 -                               > bankrupt independent farmers (kulaks) with regulation > state control of farms > good for elites
- State control of industry > who runs the government???? > good for elites

…and you try to lecture me about conflating??

Need I go on?

No please don’t, at least not before you’ve given your head a good wobble.

Oh, but you demand higher taxes??

I don’t “demand” higher taxes, I believe, given the broken state of public services that higher taxes are required (at least temporarily) to repair the mess. Furthermore such tax increases should NOT come from the working and middle classes they should be raised from the multi millionaires, billionaires and global corporations who want to operate in our country, profit from British people but not pay taxes here. They’ve had it so good for so long and it’s way way past time they contributed in line with their wealth increases

And yet, the multi millionaires, billionaires and global corporations will not pay those taxes. They are wealthy enough to move money around so it doesn't impact them. And it will be the smaller companies, normal ppl who will caught by those taxes that foot the bill.
I see you wrote "should", no disagreement there. But it simply won't happen, and your naive idealism is exploited to push the tax burden onto small businesses and the middle class.
Then come the next election, whatever left wing flavour of the month, will "trust me bro", definitely, totally tax the rich this time.  Real taxation hasn't been tried.
Just like what the Tories did with tackling immigration, say one thing, do the other. The difference is the right have finally past the hoax. Will reform actually do anything, TBD.

It's not like the public services aren't receiving record "investment" already (they are). It's that because of MASS IMMIGRATION, more ppl than the system can support are using them, and those new users overwhelmingly do not pay into the system what they take out.

Naive idealism?? Coming from you and given some of the utterly unadulterated pish you spout…that is truly hilarious

What was "pish"?

[the-goon]

"Anti-racist" CRT asserts that all whites are racist, and there is no amount of pandering that can wash away that original sin.

This gets to the heart of the issue. Racists like goon are rightly offended when themselves or others are called racist but they are not offended for the right reasons.

All the "pandering" you are being asked to do is occasionally think about how you view or treat others, and accept that like everyone you will have inherent biases.

What are the "right reasons"?

Really that's it? That's all DEI, CRT etc is asking us to do? Just have a little think?

There aren't jobs where only BAME candidates are considered? Lower scores for black to access higher education? Quotas? Race based grants? Race based political activism for every group except whites?

[McLaren]

What are the "right reasons"?

Really that's it? That's all DEI, CRT etc is asking us to do? Just have a little think?

There aren't jobs where only BAME candidates are considered? Lower scores for black to access higher education? Quotas? Race based grants? Race based political activism for every group except whites?

It sounds like you think there is a widespread conspiracy out to get the white man?


The right reason to feel offended if you are called out for being racist is because you have been racist. Acknowledge it, learn and move on.

No idea what DEI is, but yes, quite simply you are being asked to be a more considerate member of society.

And yes, policies exist which try and rebalance discrimination. Obviously they will not be perfect but we have to try.

[navyblueshorts]

"Anti-racist" CRT asserts that all whites are racist, and there is no amount of pandering that can wash away that original sin.

This gets to the heart of the issue. Racists like goon are rightly offended when themselves or others are called racist but they are not offended for the right reasons.

All the "pandering" you are being asked to do is occasionally think about how you view or treat others, and accept that like everyone you will have inherent biases.

What are the "right reasons"?

Really that's it? That's all DEI, CRT etc is asking us to do? Just have a little think?

There aren't jobs where only BAME candidates are considered? Lower scores for black to access higher education? Quotas? Race based grants? Race based political activism for every group except whites?

I won't comment on the rest of this (which is almost certainly utter baloney and/or misrepresentation of the facts to fit your agenda), but I work in this sector, have been responsible for admissions onto STEM UG programmes at one particular university, and what you say re. this is flat out rubbish. There are so-called widening participation schemes, but that has nothing to do w/ ethnicity.

[navyblueshorts]

What are the "right reasons"?

Really that's it? That's all DEI, CRT etc is asking us to do? Just have a little think?

There aren't jobs where only BAME candidates are considered? Lower scores for black to access higher education? Quotas? Race based grants? Race based political activism for every group except whites?

It sounds like you think there is a widespread conspiracy out to get the white man?


The right reason to feel offended if you are called out for being racist is because you have been racist. Acknowledge it, learn and move on.

No idea what DEI is, but yes, quite simply you are being asked to be a more considerate member of society.

And yes, policies exist which try and rebalance discrimination. Obviously they will not be perfect but we have to try.

Diversity, Equality and Inclusion.

[super_realist]

What are the "right reasons"?

Really that's it? That's all DEI, CRT etc is asking us to do? Just have a little think?

There aren't jobs where only BAME candidates are considered? Lower scores for black to access higher education? Quotas? Race based grants? Race based political activism for every group except whites?

It sounds like you think there is a widespread conspiracy out to get the white man?


The right reason to feel offended if you are called out for being racist is because you have been racist. Acknowledge it, learn and move on.

No idea what DEI is, but yes, quite simply you are being asked to be a more considerate member of society.

And yes, policies exist which try and rebalance discrimination. Obviously they will not be perfect but we have to try.

Diversity, Equality and Inclusion.

The E stands for Equity actually, not equality. DEI is shorthand for an abandoning of a meritocracy.

[JuliusHMarx]

When was there ever a meritocracy to be abandoned?

[the-goon]

"Anti-racist" CRT asserts that all whites are racist, and there is no amount of pandering that can wash away that original sin.

This gets to the heart of the issue. Racists like goon are rightly offended when themselves or others are called racist but they are not offended for the right reasons.

All the "pandering" you are being asked to do is occasionally think about how you view or treat others, and accept that like everyone you will have inherent biases.

What are the "right reasons"?

Really that's it? That's all DEI, CRT etc is asking us to do? Just have a little think?

There aren't jobs where only BAME candidates are considered? Lower scores for black to access higher education? Quotas? Race based grants? Race based political activism for every group except whites?

I won't comment on the rest of this (which is almost certainly utter baloney and/or misrepresentation of the facts to fit your agenda), but I work in this sector, have been responsible for admissions onto STEM UG programmes at one particular university, and what you say re. this is flat out rubbish. There are so-called widening participation schemes, but that has nothing to do w/ ethnicity.

What's this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_Fair_Admissions_v._Harvard#:~:text=Harvard%2C%20600%20U.S.%20181%20(2023,Students%20for%20Fair%20Admissions%20v.

And this?

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-chart-illustrates-graphically-racial-preferences-for-blacks-and-hispanics-being-admitted-to-us-medical-schools/

My agenda is treat ppl regardless of race, but if you a race to the bottom with ID politics, whites also get to play.

[super_realist]

When was there ever a meritocracy to be abandoned?

I want the best person to get the job, not the person who ticks a DEI box.

[the-goon]

What are the "right reasons"?

Really that's it? That's all DEI, CRT etc is asking us to do? Just have a little think?

There aren't jobs where only BAME candidates are considered? Lower scores for black to access higher education? Quotas? Race based grants? Race based political activism for every group except whites?

It sounds like you think there is a widespread conspiracy out to get the white man?


The right reason to feel offended if you are called out for being racist is because you have been racist. Acknowledge it, learn and move on.

No idea what DEI is, but yes, quite simply you are being asked to be a more considerate member of society.

And yes, policies exist which try and rebalance discrimination. Obviously they will not be perfect but we have to try.

You ask the question in your 1st line, and answer it in your 4th.

You believe discrimination was in favour of whites previously, so to "rebalance", it is now against them. You have captured DEI perfectly in fairness. Is there a term for race based discrimination?

Do you actually, honestly believe every accusation of racism is honest and given in a way facilitate personal growth? Serious question.

Follow up. If a statement is factually true, can it be racist?

[the-goon]

What are the "right reasons"?

Really that's it? That's all DEI, CRT etc is asking us to do? Just have a little think?

There aren't jobs where only BAME candidates are considered? Lower scores for black to access higher education? Quotas? Race based grants? Race based political activism for every group except whites?

It sounds like you think there is a widespread conspiracy out to get the white man?


The right reason to feel offended if you are called out for being racist is because you have been racist. Acknowledge it, learn and move on.

No idea what DEI is, but yes, quite simply you are being asked to be a more considerate member of society.

And yes, policies exist which try and rebalance discrimination. Obviously they will not be perfect but we have to try.

Diversity, Equality and Inclusion.

I prefer Didn't Earn It

[super_realist]

What are the "right reasons"?

Really that's it? That's all DEI, CRT etc is asking us to do? Just have a little think?

There aren't jobs where only BAME candidates are considered? Lower scores for black to access higher education? Quotas? Race based grants? Race based political activism for every group except whites?

It sounds like you think there is a widespread conspiracy out to get the white man?


The right reason to feel offended if you are called out for being racist is because you have been racist. Acknowledge it, learn and move on.

No idea what DEI is, but yes, quite simply you are being asked to be a more considerate member of society.

And yes, policies exist which try and rebalance discrimination. Obviously they will not be perfect but we have to try.

What would you call a job advert where only certain ethnicities were allowed to apply Mac?

[JuliusHMarx]

When was there ever a meritocracy to be abandoned?

I want the best person to get the job, not the person who ticks a DEI box.

Yes, but that has never been the case in this country has it, given the historical discrimination against minorities, be they women (in the workforce), gay people, people of colour etc. So I ask again, when was there ever a meritocracy?

[super_realist]

When was there ever a meritocracy to be abandoned?

I want the best person to get the job, not the person who ticks a DEI box.

Yes, but that has never been the case in this country has it, given the historical discrimination against minorities, be they women (in the workforce), gay people, people of colour etc. So I ask again, when was there ever a meritocracy?

Whether or not you think there is a blanket meritocracy or not is irrelevant. Certainly there is nepotism in society as well. The solution is not to continue to exclude and discriminate in the opposite direction.
Why aren't job applications anonymous for example?

We have seen meritocracy in action in University Entrance for example. You used to get in with the requisite grades, now, you get in if you pay more as a foreign student.
What about over representation of ethnic minorities, you claiming they're simply better?
I have worked with so called Geoscientists from Africa who scoffed when reservoirs from Cretaceous and Jurassic periods were mentioned because they didn't believe they could be that old. Why are people like this employed? That's not meritocratic.

We even see it on sports coverage these days, for example football coverage. The panel of pundits is always just a token tick list. Imagine being one of those panellists who is only there because they're a woman, black or gay. How do you think that makes them feel?

[JuliusHMarx]

When was there ever a meritocracy to be abandoned?

I want the best person to get the job, not the person who ticks a DEI box.

Yes, but that has never been the case in this country has it, given the historical discrimination against minorities, be they women (in the workforce), gay people, people of colour etc. So I ask again, when was there ever a meritocracy?

Whether or not you think there is a blanket meritocracy or not is irrelevant.

You're the one who implied that meritocracy was being abandoned. I simply pointed out that it never existed. I'm sure you wouldn't want to return to the times past when there was more discrimination than there is now, and it favours white males again.

Why aren't job applications anonymous for example?  

Not a bad idea, given that, overall, white male names are still the ones most likely to be chosen for consideration. Example - https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews and https://www.kcl.ac.uk/research/the-resume-bias-how-names-and-ethnicity-influence-employment-opportunities

You used to get in with the requisite grades, now, you get in if you pay more as a foreign student.

That's simply capitalism at work - money talks.  

What about over representation of ethnic minorities, you claiming they're simply better?

This does occur to some extent, but this is a result to trying to redress the historical imbalance and sometimes it goes too far. Give it time, and the correct balance will be reached. Personally, given I have benefitted from discrimination in favour of myself and my ascendents, I'm not going to complain if it goes against me a bit now.  

We even see it on sports coverage these days, for example football coverage. The panel of pundits is always just a token tick list. Imagine being one of those panellists who is only there because they're a woman, black or gay.  How do you think that makes them feel?

I wouldn't presume to know how others feel, but there were always useless sports pundits and good sports pundits - often a matter of opinion. I don't find today's diverse bunch any better or worse than when there were only white males involved. How did Jonathan Green ever get a job, for example? He's utter crap. How must he have felt knowing there were women, black and gay people who could do his job much better but were never given a chance because of the minority they belonged to?

[super_realist]

Meritocracy is being abandoned, but that doesn't mean it was ever 100% the only method by which people got a leg up and progressed, of course there was always favouritism or nepostism in addition, bit why try to erase meritocracy completely? BBC recently advertised a role where ONLY ethnic minorities could apply, RAF got in trouble for something similar as did perpetual racist Dianne Abbot.

How would you know if you've benefitted from discrimination? Have you been privy to the recruitment discussion about the role or met all of the previous applicants?

For every Jonathan Green (whoever he is) or Clive Tyldsely you've got a Rio Ferdinand, Thomas Hitzelsperger or Eni Oluko.

[JuliusHMarx]

Meritocracy is being abandoned, but that doesn't mean it was ever 100% the only method by which people got a leg up and progressed, of course there was always favouritism or nepostism in addition, bit why try to erase meritocracy completely? BBC recently advertised a role where ONLY ethnic minorities could apply, RAF got in trouble for something similar as did perpetual racist Dianne Abbot.

How would you know if you've benefitted from discrimination? Have you been privy to the recruitment discussion about the role or met all of the previous applicants?

For every Jonathan Green (whoever he is) or Clive Tyldsely you've got a Rio Ferdinand, Thomas Hitzelsperger or Eni Oluko.

Favouritism, nepotism and discrimination against minorities, correct?
As I mentioned previously, working towards a genuine meritocracy, from a situation where it was nowhere close to it, will almost inevitably lead to some mistakes along the way - we're all human. For example, a large company that has knowingly discriminated against minorities in the past might be overly keen to discriminate in favour of them in order to redress the balance. In time, that will resolve itself.

Do I know for sure that I have benefitted from discrimination? No. But I've lived for decades in a society that discriminated in favour of my race and gender, so the odds are quite good.

I like Rio as a pundit. Not sure I've seen the other two.

[Soul Requiem]

Thomas was pretty good on Saturday, found his insight quite interesting and unlike a lot of the native speakers had a pretty good grasp of the language. I doubt that many are aware of his sexuality and from listening to him don't feel that's anything to do with his current employment by ITV.

[Duty281]

The main discriminating issue in our society is class, not race (not to say race discrimination isn't an issue). But there's been very little to redress that balance over the years.

[super_realist]

Meritocracy is being abandoned, but that doesn't mean it was ever 100% the only method by which people got a leg up and progressed, of course there was always favouritism or nepostism in addition, bit why try to erase meritocracy completely? BBC recently advertised a role where ONLY ethnic minorities could apply, RAF got in trouble for something similar as did perpetual racist Dianne Abbot.

How would you know if you've benefitted from discrimination? Have you been privy to the recruitment discussion about the role or met all of the previous applicants?

For every Jonathan Green (whoever he is) or Clive Tyldsely you've got a Rio Ferdinand, Thomas Hitzelsperger or Eni Oluko.

Favouritism, nepotism and discrimination against minorities, correct?
As I mentioned previously, working towards a genuine meritocracy, from a situation where it was nowhere close to it, will almost inevitably lead to some mistakes along the way - we're all human. For example, a large company that has knowingly discriminated against minorities in the past might be overly keen to discriminate in favour of them in order to redress the balance. In time, that will resolve itself.

Do I know for sure that I have benefitted from discrimination? No. But I've lived for decades in a society that discriminated in favour of my race and gender, so the odds are quite good.

I like Rio as a pundit. Not sure I've seen the other two.

Who mentioned it as the status quo being against minorities? It works both ways, but clearly shouldn't.

You don't move towards a fairer, more inclusive society by flipping the see saw up and doing it the other way around.

[super_realist]

Thomas was pretty good on Saturday, found his insight quite interesting and unlike a lot of the native speakers had a pretty good grasp of the language. I doubt that many are aware of his sexuality and from listening to him don't feel that's anything to do with his current employment by ITV.

You don't think it's anything to do with his employment? That's a bit naive. A bang average player who hasn't played or lived in UK for over a decade. Why else turn to him when there has been many other high profile Germans who have achieved a great deal more.

These TV companies are obsessed with race, religion, sexuality etc.
The exception to this forced and contrived diversity would be BBC coverage of athletics where the inclusion and diversity seems a lot less shoehorned, tickboxed and appears more genuine.  Dianne Lewis, Colin Jackson  and especially Michael Johnson, (who I think is one of the absolute best pundits across all sports) arrived at a time when they appeared not because of their colour but because they were so good at their events, I don't get that impression with a lot of others these days. They just seem reactionary appointments. (You should see some of the people they get on for Scottish football)

[JuliusHMarx]

You don't move towards a fairer, more inclusive society by flipping the see saw up and doing it the other way around.

True, but you've given isolated examples. Overall, there is no way that any current discrimination in favour of minorities is anything like the scale of discrimination against them over the years. It's just that the former is probably more overt and visible. The see saw has not been flipped up.
I would also suggest that for many people the real upset is that they were sitting at the top of the see saw and they now see a future where the see saw is level and they don't want that.

[JuliusHMarx]

These TV companies are obsessed with race, religion, sexuality etc.

Possibly as obsessed as you are.

[super_realist]

You don't move towards a fairer, more inclusive society by flipping the see saw up and doing it the other way around.

True, but you've given isolated examples. Overall, there is no way that any current discrimination in favour of minorities is anything like the scale of discrimination against them over the years. It's just that the former is probably more overt and visible. The see saw has not been flipped up.
I would also suggest that for many people the real upset is that they were sitting at the top of the see saw and they now see a future where the see saw is level and they don't want that.

That isn't a reason to do it this way.
How can I give anything but isolated examples? I gave examples of work, sport, society, TV etc. I can't give every single example.
You don't solve bad behaviour by doing it to someone else instead.

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