Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures for this year's jamboree:

3 February 2024
16:45 GMT
Wales v Scotland
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zealand)

10 February 2024
14:15 GMT
Scotland v France
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)

24 February 2024
16:45 GMT
Scotland v England
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Andrew Brace (Ireland)

9 March 2024
15:15 CET (UTC+1)
Italy v Scotland
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)

16 March 2024
16:45 WET
Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Matthew Carley (England)

Let's get our post-traumatic stress disorder and excuses in early.

[BigGee]

Well I poured myself a large glass of Malbec and wstched it again.

It was definitely easier knowing the result!

The one thing I would say and has maybe overlooked is that we did manage to dig that game out after the implosion.

After their last try, with 12 mins to go, Wales never looked like scoring again and then the pressure turned on them.

Our defence suddenly found itself again and Fin rediscovered his tactical boot, keeping Wales pinned down in their half.

We should really have scored the try to give us the BP but at thst stage, we would all jyst have taken the win!

Some credit is deserved for that, we would have lost that game many times over the years.

[Highland Shaun]

Well that was a weird experience because that win actually felt good because Scotland teams of the past would have lost that but there are worrying things that need addressed ahead of next weekend otherwise we'll get hammered by a wounded France, discipline is one and annoyingly it's a trait of Scotland!! For next week I'd definitely have Andy Christie in ahead of Luke Crosbie who's likely out and Grant Gilchrist for Richie Gray is a certainty, I'd even have Speedy McReedy in too perhaps on the bench because his pace would be useful in this match. Full back I'm torn on because Kyle Rowe certainly didn't do anything wrong so doesn't really deserve dropped but on the other hand, Rory Hutchinson has been playing very well at Saints and deserves another shot with Scotland.

Shoeman, Matthews, Zander, Cummings, Gilchrist, Matt, Ritchie, Christie, White, Russell, DVDM, Tuipulotu, Jones, Steyn, Hutchinson would be my starting 15 with a bench of: Bhatti, Ashman, Millar-Mills, Skinner, Dempsey, Horne, Healy and Rowe/Reed.

Please go easy on me with your opinions on my team opinions for next week :P.

[EST]

That second half was like a living nightmare...like every Scottish Rugby fans deepest fears comings true.

That we managed to pull ourselves together to avoid the precipice is something to hold onto.

The stat doing the rounds about how many penalties we received in a row is..... interesting. Putting aside the fact it's impossible for Wales not to have committed a penalty offense in that time period, there is no doubt we got on the wrong side of O'Keefe - Turner and Ritchie especially deserve a good old fashioned bollocking this morning, and I would drop the latter completely for France. Ritchie was lucky to start against Wales and did nothing except wind up the ref the whole game.

[Tramptastic]

Agreed EST, something to hold on to but the lads with questionable dialogue to the ref deserve to be dropped - which is a shame because Turner was SO physical in that first half. He's an excellent player but once he started getting pinged he almost seemed too scared to get involved in anything.

Drop Ritchie. You were warned lad. Get a backrow of Fagerson, Dempsey and Christie on the field (if Crosbie is injured) with Darge on the bench (if fit).

Not convinced about Gilchrist coming in to replace Gray. Would prefer other options that are currently injured.

[EWT Spoons]

I wonder if Finn being captain in hindsight is possibly the wrong move.

We all saw how the team totally folded with no one seemingly stepping up and getting the players back focused again.  I also wonder if Finn is too “Maverick” for the role.  I hate that term for him, because it’s usually used by lazy pundits/journalists, but in this instance it might fit.  Ordinarily when he plays, he would have a captain to maybe question a particular choice or to maybe tell him not to try the hail mary pass/kick, but with him being captain he doesn’t have the voice on his shoulder.  He effectively has free reign to go full Finn.

Also, given near enough every attacking phase goes through him, along with kicking and thinking up what mad Poopie he’ll do next, being captain and getting the players focused, talking to the ref, might just be too much for one player.

I realise this could be an overreaction to one game, but the total capitulation in the 2nd half is worrying.  If we crumbled under the slightest pressure from a bang average Wales side (the first half and the age and experience of the Wales side would suggest they’re not world beaters, yet), I can only imagine what damage an experienced and pissed off French team will do to us if we are so disjointed.

[NeilyBroon]

I wonder if Finn being captain in hindsight is possibly the wrong move.

We all saw how the team totally folded with no one seemingly stepping up and getting the players back focused again.  I also wonder if Finn is too “Maverick” for the role.  I hate that term for him, because it’s usually used by lazy pundits/journalists, but in this instance it might fit.  Ordinarily when he plays, he would have a captain to maybe question a particular choice or to maybe tell him not to try the hail mary pass/kick, but with him being captain he doesn’t have the voice on his shoulder.  He effectively has free reign to go full Finn.

Also, given near enough every attacking phase goes through him, along with kicking and thinking up what mad Poopie he’ll do next, being captain and getting the players focused, talking to the ref, might just be too much for one player.

I realise this could be an overreaction to one game, but the total capitulation in the 2nd half is worrying.  If we crumbled under the slightest pressure from a bang average Wales side (the first half and the age and experience of the Wales side would suggest they’re not world beaters, yet), I can only imagine what damage an experienced and pissed off French team will do to us, if we are so disjointed.

I think Finn did well in the first half. I think a lot of it is the soft language used by the coaching squad, I noticed Toonie was quick to highlight the 22 year thing rather than the performance, which smacks of blowing smoke up the players arses. Also I think at 27 up we should have been emptying the bench to 1, give players a rest and 2 keep the pressure on. Imagine having to follow that up, you'd be sure as hell to give it your all coming on as you know you're fighting for a place for the next game. Especially as the momentum shifted Wales way we needed to lean on the bench more.

[EWT Spoons]

I wonder if Finn being captain in hindsight is possibly the wrong move.

We all saw how the team totally folded with no one seemingly stepping up and getting the players back focused again.  I also wonder if Finn is too “Maverick” for the role.  I hate that term for him, because it’s usually used by lazy pundits/journalists, but in this instance it might fit.  Ordinarily when he plays, he would have a captain to maybe question a particular choice or to maybe tell him not to try the hail mary pass/kick, but with him being captain he doesn’t have the voice on his shoulder.  He effectively has free reign to go full Finn.

Also, given near enough every attacking phase goes through him, along with kicking and thinking up what mad Poopie he’ll do next, being captain and getting the players focused, talking to the ref, might just be too much for one player.

I realise this could be an overreaction to one game, but the total capitulation in the 2nd half is worrying.  If we crumbled under the slightest pressure from a bang average Wales side (the first half and the age and experience of the Wales side would suggest they’re not world beaters, yet), I can only imagine what damage an experienced and pissed off French team will do to us, if we are so disjointed.

I think Finn did well in the first half. I think a lot of it is the soft language used by the coaching squad, I noticed Toonie was quick to highlight the 22 year thing rather than the performance, which smacks of blowing smoke up the players arses. Also I think at 27 up we should have been emptying the bench to 1, give players a rest and 2 keep the pressure on. Imagine having to follow that up, you'd be sure as hell to give it your all coming on as you know you're fighting for a place for the next game.

Sure but it's easy to captain a side when the opposition are shooting themselves in the foot.

When the pressure was on, I don't think he stood up and led the team, or if he did, then the players weren't listening to him (which he alluded to in his post match interviews), if either of them are the case then maybe he's not right for that role.  As the leader on the pitch he should have been getting the players focused and doing the basics right to get some form of parity in the game.  Instead he was as guilty as anyone of trying to force things, which has been an issue he's had for years, rather than just keeping the ball and getting the team back into the game.

To be clear, he's our best 10 by a long way, I'm just not sure he's, at least currently, able to be the 10 we need and also the leader.

[BigGee]

I am pretty sure we won't be that disjointed against France. Apart from anything else, we won't be 27-0 up against them for sure.

I was actually at the France game this summer, when I think Fin was captain and we came back against them from a decent first half defeceit. It is something that can and does happen in matches these days when the momentum changes sides can score points quickly, especially with players off the field.

Fin captained the team pretty well that day and I am not sure he did that much wrong yesterday. Some of the others, Turner and Ritchie in particular, could do with zipping it up a bit.

We will probably see the co-captaincy in play this weekend if Darge makes his expected return. Hopefully that will bring s bit more order to affairs.

[RDW]

Has to be the most Scottish sporting reaction ever that we win away in Cardiff for the first time in 22 years and we're all miserable afterwards!

There's no doubt Saturday was a freak game and I really can't tell how much we can read into it. We certainly shouldn't panic though or make extreme sweeping changes. If we beat France that second half performance will be quickly forgotten.

Finn very openly criticised some of the players in the post match interview (not by name but they'll know who he's talking about) which will make for a interesting atmosphere in camp this week
Will it bring the team together in trying to fix the wrongs, or lead to discontent and fractures in camp?

One thing's for sure, it's never boring being a Scotland fan!

[123456789.]

Generally speaking, it is a given that Scotland will switch off for 20-30 minutes of a game. When it happens against the top 4 in the world - we invariably lose. South Africa at the World Cup, New Zealand in the 2022 Autumn Internationals, France and Ireland in last year's six nations. Equally we did it against England and Italy in last year's six nations and got away with it. I think part of it is how Scotland defend. We do give up metres fairly easily and it relies on an effective fetcher to stop the momentum. When the game shifts momentum so quickly referees don't tend to be so forgiving of the side up against it and perhaps the combination of a drift defence and modern refereeing makes Scotland susceptible to these periods out of control.

The very odd thing about Saturday was when we went to just a point ahead, we simply took the ball back off Wales and saw the game out fairly comfortably. I think Ritchie will be very lucky to keep his spot as he seems unable to stay on the right side of the ref.

[Tramptastic]

I actually thinkthe 2nd half capitulation was nowt to with Finn. If he's telling players to stay out the ruck and they keep going in thats not on him, thats still an individual but themselves ahead of whats best for the team.

Finn was trying to play as sensible as possible in the 2nd half, he just couldnt get his mitts on the ball because of player ill discipline and wales hitting a purple patch. His approach to how to communicates with the ref is excellent but if Ritchie cant keep his gob shut then it totally undermines him.

Drop the lads who lost their sh1t. Tuipulotu also kept giving away stupid offside penalties. He doesn't need dropped but certainly needs a dressing down.

[EWT Spoons]

Finn was trying to play as sensible as possible in the 2nd half, he just couldnt get his mitts on the ball because of player ill discipline and wales hitting a purple patch. His approach to how to communicates with the ref is excellent but if Ritchie cant keep his gob shut then it totally undermines him.

I'd disagree with that. Don't get me wrong I don't think by any stretch Finn had a bad game and totally respect those who think he captained well, but off the top of my head one event sticks out, we managed to get hold of the ball at one point in the 2nd half and we were keeping the ball in hand and trying to get a foothold, only for Finn to attempt a wee kick through, it hit a Wales player straight away and bounced away to set up another Wales attack. He may have tempered it down a bit, but he was pretty far from sensible

[NeilyBroon]

Well I hope the players move forward, they can use that second half to galvanise their performance next week. We don't need wholesale changes but I'd say players such as turner and Ritchie need dropping. Turner, like brown before him is a powder keg and can cost us a lot of points. It's weighing up the risk benefit. Ritchie should drop out of the squad completely for his attitude towards the ref. He has become more of a liability since captaining the side before, I think he needs to be told to keep his mouth shut and focus on his game.

[123456789.]

I missed the Jamie Ritchie ref stuff - what did he do?

[Tramptastic]

Ach there was a few times in breaks in play (scrum collapse, knock ons etc) ritchie was straight up to the ref talking or appealing for stuff

I didnt see him being marched back but if you are under the cosh, constantly being pinged and you aren't the captain - shut up and walk away

[BigGee]

Finn was trying to play as sensible as possible in the 2nd half, he just couldnt get his mitts on the ball because of player ill discipline and wales hitting a purple patch. His approach to how to communicates with the ref is excellent but if Ritchie cant keep his gob shut then it totally undermines him.

I'd disagree with that.  Don't get me wrong I don't think by any stretch Finn had a bad game and totally respect those who think he captained well, but off the top of my head one event sticks out, we managed to get hold of the ball at one point in the 2nd half and we were keeping the ball in hand and trying to get a foothold, only for Finn to attempt a wee kick through, it hit a Wales player straight away and bounced away to set up another Wales attack.  He may have tempered it down a bit, but he was pretty far from sensible

To be fair, being Fin, he would likely have done that whether of not he was captain!

I agree as well, it was not the right play at the time, but he does one like that every single match he plays!

[NeilyBroon]

Ach there was a few times in breaks in play (scrum collapse, knock ons etc) ritchie was straight up to the ref talking or appealing for stuff

I didnt see him being marched back but if you are under the cosh, constantly being pinged and you aren't the captain - shut up and walk away

I do think Finn spoke to the referee well, to be honest I think there were a lot of stupid penalties in the second half he could do nothing to stop.

As said previously, we'll see how the team react to his post match comments. I agree with his criticism but as captain you also have to shoulder responsibility rather than point fingers.

[Hazel Sapling]

The discipline can't be laid at Finn's door. These are internationals with 20+ caps. Ritchie is a former captain. They should know better.

We spent 20 minutes with 14 men. Wales scored three tries (the first Turner got yellow carded when they scored it). We need to keep 15 men on the pitch. The 60 minutes we had 15 on the park, Wales dominated for 5 minutes of it. Keep 15 men on the pitch and we have a good shot of upsetting France.

Whilst he is not captain, I don't think the penalty count happens if R Gray is on the field. We really missed a bit of class and a calm head.

As for next week:
- Nel in for Millar Mills. He did not struggle Millar-Mills but Nel is an old head and will stay calm.
- Turner to be dropped to at least the bench. Would not mind him being dropped entirely for Matthews. Not good enough a player to annoy the ref.
- Gilchrist will come in for R Gray (a big downgrade) but Gilchrist next to Cummings should be complementary and Gilchrist should be more physical after last years efforts.
- Christie has to be playing one way or another. If Darge is fit and we don't do a 6:2 bench, then Ritchie to be dropped. If he is talking too much to refs, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms that there are others who are as good and won't.
- Backs, we don't really have many other options. Probably keep the same

[BigGee]

I am expecting another second row to come into the squad today for RG.

No-one seems an obvious candidate but the were apparently having a good look at Kiran McDonald before this squad was announced.

If not, then maybe Skyes at Edinbugh or as aong shot, kne of the 2 Glasgow Youngsters. None of them seem likely to play, but it may be good experience for them.

[123456789.]

I'm slightly sceptical of dropping players in regularly subbed positions to the bench for ill discipline. If they're giving up too many penalties, I don't want them on the pitch in the 79th minute.

[EWT Spoons]

Finn was trying to play as sensible as possible in the 2nd half, he just couldnt get his mitts on the ball because of player ill discipline and wales hitting a purple patch. His approach to how to communicates with the ref is excellent but if Ritchie cant keep his gob shut then it totally undermines him.

I'd disagree with that.  Don't get me wrong I don't think by any stretch Finn had a bad game and totally respect those who think he captained well, but off the top of my head one event sticks out, we managed to get hold of the ball at one point in the 2nd half and we were keeping the ball in hand and trying to get a foothold, only for Finn to attempt a wee kick through, it hit a Wales player straight away and bounced away to set up another Wales attack.  He may have tempered it down a bit, but he was pretty far from sensible

To be fair, being Fin, he would likely have done that whether of not he was captain!

I agree as well, it was not the right play at the time, but he does one like that every single match he plays!

Oh absolutely he does that quite a bit, and it wouldn't matter if he was captain or not. For as good as Finn is (and he is) he does still make some daft decisions at times. He did it last weekend for Bath trying a cross field kick in his 22 only for it not to come off and concede a try. When you're under the pump and struggling to get back into a game, trying a cheeky grubber through maybe isn't the best of choices. If he could look at the wider context of the game, rather than the immediate moment he would truly be world class. Those lapses in decision making, is why I am slightly apprehensive about his captaincy.

[EWT Spoons]

I think Rowe might miss the game against France, he left the stadium on crutches, it might be something minor, but chances are he might need to be replaced.

[NeilyBroon]

I think Rowe might miss the game against France, he left the stadium on crutches, it might be something minor, but chances are he might need to be replaced.

Well I guess that settles it. Jones at FB and Redpath to centre.

[BigGee]

I think Rowe might miss the game against France, he left the stadium on crutches, it might be something minor, but chances are he might need to be replaced.

Well I guess that settles it. Jones at FB and Redpath to centre.  

Rowe is not having any luck at international level with injuries.

Shuggy to FB is probably the next best option, might open up a space for Speedy McReedy as well!

[bsando]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68198547

Rowe mentions that it wasn’t mass panic in the second half as Wales kept scoring, but he does say that they wanted to get the ball back. Perhaps that was why so many penalties occurred? Desperate attempts to win the ball back rather than having a little patience and timing the turnover when it was actually on?

[EST]

Finn was trying to play as sensible as possible in the 2nd half, he just couldnt get his mitts on the ball because of player ill discipline and wales hitting a purple patch. His approach to how to communicates with the ref is excellent but if Ritchie cant keep his gob shut then it totally undermines him.

I'd disagree with that.  Don't get me wrong I don't think by any stretch Finn had a bad game and totally respect those who think he captained well, but off the top of my head one event sticks out, we managed to get hold of the ball at one point in the 2nd half and we were keeping the ball in hand and trying to get a foothold, only for Finn to attempt a wee kick through, it hit a Wales player straight away and bounced away to set up another Wales attack.  He may have tempered it down a bit, but he was pretty far from sensible

To be fair, being Fin, he would likely have done that whether of not he was captain!

I agree as well, it was not the right play at the time, but he does one like that every single match he plays!

Oh absolutely he does that quite a bit, and it wouldn't matter if he was captain or not.  For as good as Finn is (and he is) he does still make some daft decisions at times.  He did it last weekend for Bath trying a cross field kick in his 22 only for it not to come off and concede a try.  When you're under the pump and struggling to get back into a game, trying a cheeky grubber through maybe isn't the best of choices.  If he could look at the wider context of the game, rather than the immediate moment he would truly be world class.  Those lapses in decision making, is why I am slightly apprehensive about his captaincy.

I think I saw that particular incident slightly differently, to me he was trying to drill it in the corner to gain field position and put some pressure on Wales, but I would need to revisit it again.

I've been heartened by how Finn has spoken as captain, he didn't shy away from criticising the discipline in his interview and I think this team needs some home truths delivered. Given how popular he seems, hopefully these are taken the right way by his players.

Say what you like about the whole Toonie/Finn saga, but it takes a very stong character to effectively rule yourself out of international rugby to stand up for what you believe in - I think it all bodes well for his captaincy.

[jimbopip]

Well, now that the emotional dust has settled I shall add my tuppence worth.

Front Row

This was the one area of the pack where Wales had the bulk advantage: I thought the scrummaging went well, Schooey marauded to good effect and Ragnar, ironically given how the second half panned out, was hardly penalised. I would expect both props to start against the Frenchies. Turner In the loose he was very good. Easily our best option at 2. However, he must take a large part of the blame for Georgia O'Keef setting a new world record for one eyed adjudication. Turner needs to have a seat on the naughty step. Whether that's in-house this week or very publicly on Saturday is up to Toonie.    
The replacements all did well in as much as no-one cost us the game...although Ashman's overthrow at the end came damn close. None of them made me shout, "Yes, he must start against the French". I like Mick The Miller; you have to go back to the glory days of Chunk to see that body shape on a prop.

Second Row

If it's all about getting the right balance then Cummings-Principal isn't it. Richie Gray was a big loss; the Wlaes lineout was operting at 50% at the end of the first half. So; Cummings, GG, Principal and Young. Three of them will be in the 23. Which pairing will give us the balance? I wouldn't be surprised to see GG & Young. We may even see the other two on the bench if we go 6/2.

Back Row

At one point on Saturday after a tackle, Mbawza (I think) jackalled over and got both hands on the ball; the Wales hooker kept both of his hands on the ball.Yes! I thought, penalty to us. The ref didn't blow. A second Wales player joined in and grabbed the ball. There were three sets of hands on the ball, about six inches above the turf and Georgia O'Keef called out, "Fair contest, play on."  In all honestly this does make any assessment of the back row rather redundant. Except to say Mbawza needs a long long long sit on the naughty step.


Half backs
Both White and Dancer were very, very good. Nuff said.

Centres
Again both played really well. Shug was sound in defence.

Back three
Dwayne was Dwayne
Seaman was exactly what we expected; sound, reliable and always looking for work. He's not ADHD or Dwayne but he is worth his place in the team.
Rowe did a lot better than many thought he'd do. Although it appears he's hors de combat for Saturday

So, same front row but the bench is up for grabs with Matthews a possibility.
Second row is anyone's guess.
Back row; Fagerson-Dempsey-Christie-Darge.
In the backs it's either keep Huipulotu and put The Forgotten Man from Northampton at 15 or Shug to 15 and Redpath to 12. Although I wouldn't rule out Stafford-Wee Shona with Shug at 15.

I think it's a battle that'll be won in the forwards: typical that our backs are looking to have the edge.

[George Carlin]

I'm trying to think what I want to see out of the next game.

I think just a semblance of control and not running around like a collie with a weak bladder.

We can absolutely beat France. We just need to see if we're professional enough to do it.

[BigGee]

We really don't have a bad record against France, especially at home.

There is everything to play for, we are 1 from 1.

It is also a very different pressure than against Wales. Despite their very public wobble last weekend, it is still France and they are a good side. There is always less expectation on us in such a fixture, which suits us.

[RDW]

I've been heartened by how Finn has spoken as captain, he didn't shy away from criticising the discipline in his interview and I think this team needs some home truths delivered.  Given how popular he seems, hopefully these are taken the right way by his players.

Say what you like about the whole Toonie/Finn saga, but it takes a very stong character to effectively rule yourself out of international rugby to stand up for what you believe in - I think it all bodes well for his captaincy.

Agreed and this links to my thoughts on the Netflix series - the Scotland camp on the face of it seems to be a very happy clappy place. We only saw select snippets of course, but Toonie spent the whole time telling the squad how amazing they are. Peter Horne seems to be part coach / part cheerleader.

Do they get the critical feedback at the same time? I hope so. The review session from Saturday's game should be a very uncomfortable environment.

[bsando]

I've been heartened by how Finn has spoken as captain, he didn't shy away from criticising the discipline in his interview and I think this team needs some home truths delivered.  Given how popular he seems, hopefully these are taken the right way by his players.

Say what you like about the whole Toonie/Finn saga, but it takes a very stong character to effectively rule yourself out of international rugby to stand up for what you believe in - I think it all bodes well for his captaincy.

Agreed and this links to my thoughts on the Netflix series - the Scotland camp on the face of it seems to be a very happy clappy place. We only saw select snippets of course, but Toonie spent the whole time telling the squad how amazing they are. Peter Horne seems to be part coach / part cheerleader.

Do they get the critical feedback at the same time? I hope so. The review session from Saturday's game should be a very uncomfortable environment.

https://www.theoffsideline.com/six-nations-scotland-complacency-discipline/

I think this ask a lot of good questions regarding Townsend and the lapses in Scotland's concentration during games. We were playing well vs Ireland in the 6N last year, then dramatically folded as Ireland increased the pressure. There's got to be a willingness to dig deep and overcome pressure to regain parity in the contest.

[Highland Shaun]

If, as has been suggested Kyle Rowe is out then for me it has to be Hutchinson at 15 and Jones at 13 because you don't really want to break up what has been a very good partnership in the centres plus Hutch would have no issues playing in a position that is familiar to him . Plus I really think it's about time Gregor started to reward Hutch for his excellent Saints form.

I also see that Taofifenua is out again so not sure if that's a good thing or not?

[RDW]

Healy at 15? He played there for Munster.

Good to have a second playmaker and kicking option.

I don't want to totally rearrange the backline by putting Jones there.

[NeilyBroon]

Healy at 15? He played there for Munster.

Good to have a second playmaker and kicking option.

I don't want to totally rearrange the backline by putting Jones there.

A good idea certainly.. I remember Hastings having a great game at 15 when he needed to slot in, the positions aren't dissimilar and takes some of the tactical kicking away from Finn. I'd imagine Healy would do fine.

Play like we did in the first half and don't have a complete collapse in the second, we're in with a shot. We should be limiting ourselves to a maximum penalty count of 10 for the whole game. Do that and we may squeak past angry France.

Anyway this is all moot, gilcho is going to get a red card for flopping shoulder first into the receivers face after kick off.

[jimbopip]

Healy at 15? He played there for Munster.

Good to have a second playmaker and kicking option.

I don't want to totally rearrange the backline by putting Jones there.

A good idea certainly.. I remember Hastings having a great game at 15 when he needed to slot in, the positions aren't dissimilar and takes some of the tactical kicking away from Finn. I'd imagine Healy would do fine.

Play like we did in the first half and don't have a complete collapse in the second, we're in with a shot. We should be limiting ourselves to a maximum penalty count of 10 for the whole game. Do that and we may squeak past angry France.

Anyway this is all moot, gilcho is going to get a red card for flopping shoulder first into the receivers face after kick off.

Only if we get to kick off: otherwise he's nowhere near the ball.


If Rowe is not fit then we basically have three choices at 15; Shug, Henry Healey or Whassisname from Northampton.

If we really want Huipulotu playing then it's Healey or the other guy.

Healey means we can play a 6/2 spit with Hornito and Redpath on the bench. Principal, Young and Darge/Christie as forward replacements.

Shug is the better attacking 15, Healey and Dancer fielding kicks in the backfield would give the French something to think about. The problem is it might persuade them to run everything, which may not be a good thing. Whassisname, for me suffers from not being as good as Shug with ball in hand or as tactical a kicker as Healey.

If we go with Shug the it's Redpath, Whassisname or Stafford at 12. Stafford might be the name that pops out of the Tombola.

Postscript; last year's game against the French was attritional in the extreme. Without Dupont or Ntamack I expect the French to rely on their pack to do a lot of the hard yards. A 6/2 split would be the more sensible choice. A 6'5" inside centre wouldn't be a bad option either.

[NeilyBroon]

Healy at 15? He played there for Munster.

Good to have a second playmaker and kicking option.

I don't want to totally rearrange the backline by putting Jones there.

A good idea certainly.. I remember Hastings having a great game at 15 when he needed to slot in, the positions aren't dissimilar and takes some of the tactical kicking away from Finn. I'd imagine Healy would do fine.

Play like we did in the first half and don't have a complete collapse in the second, we're in with a shot. We should be limiting ourselves to a maximum penalty count of 10 for the whole game. Do that and we may squeak past angry France.

Anyway this is all moot, gilcho is going to get a red card for flopping shoulder first into the receivers face after kick off.

Only if we get to kick off: otherwise he's nowhere near the ball.


If Rowe is not fit then we basically have three choices at 15; Shug, Henry Healey or Whassisname from Northampton.

If we really want Huipulotu playing then it's Healey or the other guy.

Healey means we can play a 6/2 spit with Hornito and Redpath on the bench. Principal, Young and Darge/Christie as forward replacements.

Shug is the better attacking 15, Healey and Dancer fielding kicks in the backfield would give the French something to think about. The problem is it might persuade them to run everything, which may not be a good thing. Whassisname, for me suffers from not being as good as Shug with ball in hand or as tactical a kicker as Healey.

If we go with Shug the it's Redpath, Whassisname or Stafford at 12. Stafford might be the name that pops out of the Tombola.

Postscript; last year's game against the French was attritional in the extreme. Without Dupont or Ntamack I expect the French to rely on their pack to do a lot of the hard yards. A 6/2 split would be the more sensible choice. A 6'5" inside centre wouldn't be a bad option either.

So what you're saying is we need kinghorn in, the "injury" was just so Stafford could spend two weeks sharing just a fraction of his power with BK. That's it boys, we're going to win 50-49.

[Tramptastic]

Jimbo is pushing stafford harder than Suella Braverman pushes asylum seekers back into the sea

[BigGee]

Any news on the team yet Tramp?

[jimbopip]

Jimbo is pushing stafford harder than Suella Braverman pushes asylum seekers back into the sea

ooh er missus!

I don't see Stafford in that way, thank you very much.

[EWT Spoons]

Would moving Steyn to FB not be an option?  I seem to have vague memories of him playing there previously, and he’s very good under the high ball.  Also, he’s pretty experienced at international level now so it wouldn’t be the same as chucking someone untested into an international in the wrong position.

Or we go rogue and play Patterson

[demosthenes]

So no formal additions to the squad following Grey and Crosbie being formally ruled out; but Williamson and Samuel's to train with with the squad this week.

[jimbopip]

If we move Seaman to 15 then the wing options are; Reedy, Patterson, McCann or Dobie. I think the fact that The House Elf is the most experienced international winger there says it all.

p.s. Update from SRU website Richie Gray is out for the duration of the championship. Crosbie however is , "Luke Crosbie is out of the Guinness Six Nations with a shoulder injury". I think they mean he is out of the France match.

Max Williamson and Alex Samuel are training with the squad as is Euan Ferrie.

[BigGee]

Injury update from SRU this morning

Crosbie and RG out of the championship

Nelly and Darcy back training, so that sounds hopeful for subsequent rounds. Nothing on Blairhorn, so assuming he may be fit.

The two young Glasgow locks, Samuels and Willismson training with the squad still, as are Dobie and Ferrie still.

To me, Christie is a like for like replacement for Crosbie, so he comes straight in.

My back row, Darge - Dempsey - Christie

With Fagerson/Ritchie on bench

[Tramptastic]

Any news on the team yet Tramp?

no news yet!

[Hazel Sapling]

Not sure where to go with the rearrangement of the backs. My initial thought was Jones and play McDowall at outside centre. We would be slow in the centres but not sure France are particularly fleet of foot there either.

The Healy idea though has legs. It allows us to have 6:2 split on the bench and it keeps the backline intact. Then again, I think this may all be moot and Rowe is fine.

Without Crosbie and with Ritchie in the naughty corner, I am hoping for something like:

Schoeman - Ashman - Zander (Bhatti - Matthews - Nel)
Cummings - Gilchrist (Skinner)
Christie - Dempsey - Darge (M Fagerson - Bayliss)

White - Russell (G Horne - Healy)
Huwipulotu
DVDM - Rowe - Steyn

At least the French seem to be having a lock crisis as well. Woki is likely to play in the second row so it won't be as monstrous a front five as it could have been. I would hope we can handle Tuilagi; he has plenty of ballast but little balance when he carries. He can't jump and his work rate is pretty poor. He will be MOTM

[123456789.]

Not sure where to go with the rearrangement of the backs. My initial thought was Jones and play McDowall at outside centre. We would be slow in the centres but not sure France are particularly fleet of foot there either.

The Healy idea though has legs. It allows us to have 6:2 split on the bench and it keeps the backline intact. Then again, I think this may all be moot and Rowe is fine.

Without Crosbie and with Ritchie in the naughty corner, I am hoping for something like:

Schoeman - Ashman - Zander (Bhatti - Matthews - Nel)
Cummings - Gilchrist (Skinner)
Christie - Dempsey - Darge (M Fagerson - Bayliss)

White - Russell (G Horne - Healy)
Huwipulotu
DVDM - Rowe - Steyn

At least the French seem to be having a lock crisis as well. Woki is likely to play in the second row so it won't be as monstrous a front five as it could have been. I would hope we can handle Tuilagi; he has plenty of ballast but little balance when he carries. He can't jump and his work rate is pretty poor. He will be MOTM

If we don't sort our discipline out, then having a 125kg monster running at our backline 5 metres out could become quite the theme. If there's one thing Scottish rugby can do - it's set the stage for big international breakthroughs!

[RDW]

Big blow losing our two most physical forwards against the French juggernaut. Whatever happens on Saturday we need to be able to compete up front.

[bsando]

Calling up Bradbury would be a good idea I think

[NeilyBroon]

Calling up Bradbury would be a good idea I think

Maggie also covers second row in a pinch, I think it would be the sensible thing. Will Toonie? No.

I know he's had his critics but we're very much beggars rather than choosers at the moment. He's shown great form for Bristol the last two seasons, I'd say if he shows up anytime at international level, now is it.

[Hazel Sapling]

Calling up Bradbury would be a good idea I think

Maggie also covers second row in a pinch, I think it would be the sensible thing. Will Toonie? No.

I know he's had his critics but we're very much beggars rather than choosers at the moment. He's shown great form for Bristol the last two seasons, I'd say if he shows up anytime at international level, now is it.

On paper, Bradbury would be perfect for our backrow balance if Darge is fit. Bradbury would be asked to carry against the big beasts and be a jumper in the line-out with Dempsey or M Fagerson being the workhorses around the pitch when Bradbury goes invisible for 20 minutes.

In practice, Toonie gave Bradbury so many opportunities that he does not trust him anymore. Does he want to bet on a guy he does not trust against France?

If it were Italy with the idea of that being the test for Bradbury before Ireland, I could see it.

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