Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
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Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Fixtures for this year's jamboree:
3 February 2024
16:45 GMT
Wales v Scotland
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zealand)
10 February 2024
14:15 GMT
Scotland v France
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)
24 February 2024
16:45 GMT
Scotland v England
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
9 March 2024
15:15 CET (UTC+1)
Italy v Scotland
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
16 March 2024
16:45 WET
Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Matthew Carley (England)
Let's get our post-traumatic stress disorder and excuses in early.
Last edited by George Carlin on Sun 28 Apr 2024, 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Turner also I think had a decent tournament and is still out on his own as our leading hooker.
Ben White has cemented his place as our number 1 SH and may well be pushing on for a trip to Oz with the Lions next summer. George Horne as always, did not make a good impression when given a start and Ali Price could possibly have played his last game for Scotland on that performance. I would like to see Dobie come into the SH mix sooner rather than later. If injury free, surely he will tour this summer and should be pushing for the back up place next autumn.
I see the autumn tests have also been announced today, a decent mix of tip sides to play, Oz and SA and also Portugal and and out of window Fiji.
This may well mean he can mix it up a little bit and try and bring a few players, who may have impressed on the summer tour, on a bit and get them challenging for the full squad.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
BigGee wrote:I think by his own standards, Finn did not have the best of tournaments, though his place kicking was excellent.
Turner also I think had a decent tournament and is still out on his own as our leading hooker.
Ben White has cemented his place as our number 1 SH and may well be pushing on for a trip to Oz with the Lions next summer. George Horne as always, did not make a good impression when given a start and Ali Price could possibly have played his last game for Scotland on that performance. I would like to see Dobie come into the SH mix sooner rather than later. If injury free, surely he will tour this summer and should be pushing for the back up place next autumn.
I see the autumn tests have also been announced today, a decent mix of tip sides to play, Oz and SA and also Portugal and and out of window Fiji.
This may well mean he can mix it up a little bit and try and bring a few players, who may have impressed on the summer tour, on a bit and get them challenging for the full squad.
Yeah that's a good point Gee, a lot of our sub par tactics seems to have stemmed from Russell and/or his leadership issues.
I'm sorry to say it but I never want to see Ali price in a Scotland shirt again, I've not seen a player come on for Scotland and play that badly in a very long time. Definitely time to give up international rugby, all the best to him, had a great run for Scotland a few years back but time to step aside.
You're absolutely right that Ben white has had a great tournament by contrast and definitely could be competing for a lions spot if he keeps his current trajectory.
I think we need to get a better measure of Healy this summer, hopefully he gets more gametime as a result, if we could maximise use of his and Finn's contrasting styles we'd be in a better place. Opportunity for Thompson to try the step up too.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
king_carlos wrote:The drop off from Price has been startling and really odd considering he's 30. He's gone from a Lions starter and one of Scotland's most consistent performers, to really struggling with his basics. It's not like the Mish situation where you've got an insanely physical player and injuries just caught up. Price is a couple of years younger than Gibson-Park and Faf for instance.
I do remember him saying a few years back he had issues with keeping his weight down. Maybe it's a motivation/mental health thing? I'm not sure but we've definitely got form players available to us at scrum half. Dobie, Ashfar all waiting in the wings. I can't remember if warr was also interested?
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
king_carlos wrote:The drop off from Price has been startling and really odd considering he's 30. He's gone from a Lions starter and one of Scotland's most consistent performers, to areally struggling side packed with knitwear models.with his basics. It's not like the Mish situation where you've got an insanely physical player and injuries just caught up. Price is a couple of years younger than Gibson-Park and Faf for instance.
he had a flat right above the motorway junction at Charing Cross. It was a two minute walk from The Arlington on Woodlands Road...they made him move to Luvvietoon ffs!!! What do you expect?
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Hard to argue with this!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
What’s the odds the two players and Aldi and Dancer? (I’m not naming names so I can’t get in trouble)
On a serious note, I fully agree with warburton and Monye. If Scotland beat England then the casual fans think it’s a successful year and that’s it. Our focus needs to shift away from this chip on the shoulder anti English nonsense (note both of the last two first ministers of Scotland have only been seen celebrating with the team when we beat England) We need to focus on winning a championship, not just giving the old enemy a bloody nose
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
RDW wrote:https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/news/24194683.scotland-accused-arrogance-wales-legend-sam-warburton/?fbclid=IwAR2t3vags8L5VR5ApwNLQg-i203U44ud94qhMqnGEHwyFSPpapYgr6QsBsE
Hard to argue with this!
This kind of mindset has been allowed to flourish under weak leadership and poor man-management as well as absence of a team culture where everybody works for each other. A few backs' bids for individual glory highlights this on the pitch and the lack of cohesiveness in a game plan.
I hope the Italy game put them back in their place. The fact this was after the Wales game too says it all, we nearly bloody lost that!
I'm not going to be surprised if, in a year's time, we are all back on the annual despair thread after getting the wooden spoon.
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It's an impossible task as the group need to show confidence yet not be arrogant, celebrate wins but stay humble, be 'marketable' personalities yet not be arrogant and most importantly stay humble.
Who defines the rules on how much we can celebrate? Who defines the line between arrogance and humbleness?
There's a good chance in this instance both viewpoints can be right - it wasn't a good look how the players behaved and does point to culture issues in the team, but also it is an impossible task for players to walk this tightrope. And I feel like Scotland more than most other teams have higher scrutiny over this - mainly because we're on the cusp of achieving something but then never do.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
RDW wrote:Debating this with my brother - he agrees with the sentiment but doesn't think 'arrogant' is the right word. He rightly points out that Scottish players and coaches get hounded in social media / press any time they show confidence in themselves or state belief that they can achieve something. There's nothing wrong with the group taking a positive mindset into games and tournaments, all teams do.
It's an impossible task as the group need to show confidence yet not be arrogant, celebrate wins but stay humble, be 'marketable' personalities yet not be arrogant and most importantly stay humble.
Who defines the rules on how much we can celebrate? Who defines the line between arrogance and humbleness?
There's a good chance in this instance both viewpoints can be right - it wasn't a good look how the players behaved and does point to culture issues in the team, but also it is an impossible task for players to walk this tightrope. And I feel like Scotland more than most other teams have higher scrutiny over this - mainly because we're on the cusp of achieving something but then never do.
I think back to when I played as a teenager, and no question it was straight into shirt and tie after the game, regardless of the score (I played at quite a successful club, certainly nothing to do with me!) we'd have a few drinks and a laugh then onto the next task.
I think you can be both confident and humble. Humility is a very important trait in any sport, or pursuit for that matter. If they were out in flip flops and their kit with the Welsh boys/other lads, that's a different story, bit cheeky but that's comradery. Turning up to an official event in your mucky kit with flip flops, that just shows you don't give a sh*t. It's just basic etiquette.
If Mr Greig managed to (just) keep his shirt and tie on on a night out, the players can at least change into theirs for an official post-match do.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Warburton’s comments instantly had me thinking back to when Finn got in bother after missing training and rocking up to camp after a few beers. It isn’t clear when the warburton incident happened. I really hope it was near the same time as finngate and since then that nonsense has been stamped out.
I know folk will bring up the old rugby values of sharing a beer with mates is part of rugby. It is at amateur level but the national team is a professional set up and should therefore behave in a professional manner
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
More practically, I know that there are strict protocols about what you are supposed to wear and when, when carrying out any public-facing activity as a representative of the national team. Letting players ignore that is another sign of weak management. Warbuton was a Lions captain and his opinion on this is absolutely relevant and on point - as was his comment that (I'm paraphrasing) if you haven't won the 6 Nations on your last 25 attempts, you don't look too smart in letting it all hang out and acting like you're kings of the frat house, even if you have just beaten England again.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Remember Faf in his budgie smugglers, if SA had lost then I suspect reaction may have been a bit different.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
mountain man wrote:Players cop a lot of grief in this social media age, but ultimately if you win it all becomes irrelevant.
Remember Faf in his budgie smugglers, if SA had lost then I suspect reaction may have been a bit different.
Faf was in the changing rooms at the time tbf. It only became a thing after pictures were released, then he did it more publicly.
I mean you wouldn't turn up to a work meeting in your joggers, same applies in any job, even if your working uniform is shorts and a rugby shirt.
I had work done on the house recently and I remember a builder coming to give an estimate in a dirty wifebeater looking like he'd not had a shower. I'd essentially decided to not go with him before he even sent me a quote. If he looked like that while working on site I'd perhaps be less perturbed but he hadn't even got the job!
Impressions are important, social media age or not!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
If the players are briefed(excuse the pun) before hand about dress code etc and they then ignore then yes they should be rightly criticised.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
By the time players (especially senior / well known players as reported) do a lap of honour, a host of TV and radio interviews, celebrate in the team changing room then share a beer in the opposition changing room (because, you know, rugby values) it could be a good hour, and a half after the game.
Did they then get a tap on the shoulder from the team manager saying they need to appear for an interview at a post match function?
If it was at the main event that all the players and coaches attend, then that's a different story!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Unsurprisingly he’s SQ (with a name like Fergus Burke how could he not be?!), if he’s moving over it would suggest he might be giving up on playing for the ABs. Not saying he would play for Scotland, but if he’s in this hemisphere our odds have improved.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Getting Burke out of NZ will probably depend on whether he thinks he'll be in Robertson's plans for the ABs.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
NeilyBroon wrote:bsando wrote:Getting away from future of the coaches, who’s stock has risen and who’s has fallen during the championship?
Up
Christie
Harry Paterson
Kyle Rowe
Stafford McDowall
Cummings
Dempsey
Redpath
Down
Ritchie
M fagerson
Kinghorn
Bhatti
Bhatti hasn't even featured for his stock to drop!
I'd put Darge in the Down column. I'd argue that's not necessarily his fault. He should have been either full captain or just focus on playing. Maybe he should captain the summer tour or in the autumn. I think a decision needs to be made on captaincy ASAP.
It's a shame Big Richie is forever injured as I think he'd be a great candidate to take it through to retirement.
Totally agree with your point w.r.t Big Richie - I think that the pack plays so much better when he's part of it. He seems to galvanise the team, I think our discipline is better. Class act.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
EWT Spoons wrote:Daily mail rugby reporter (not Robertson) is saying on twitter that Fergus Burke is on the shortlist to move to Sarries this summer as they are losing a few lads.
Unsurprisingly he’s SQ (with a name like Fergus Burke how could he not be?!), if he’s moving over it would suggest he might be giving up on playing for the ABs. Not saying he would play for Scotland, but if he’s in this hemisphere our odds have improved.
Could he get a debut in the summer tour ?
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Highland Shaun wrote:EWT Spoons wrote:Daily mail rugby reporter (not Robertson) is saying on twitter that Fergus Burke is on the shortlist to move to Sarries this summer as they are losing a few lads.
Unsurprisingly he’s SQ (with a name like Fergus Burke how could he not be?!), if he’s moving over it would suggest he might be giving up on playing for the ABs. Not saying he would play for Scotland, but if he’s in this hemisphere our odds have improved.
Could he get a debut in the summer tour ?
Depends on if he even wants to play for Scotland but before that he needs fitness and form before he's picked. The sign of a good side is caps not being easy to come by - lad hasnt even set foot in Scotland so why should he get capped? if he's broken why would anyone else be looking at him for a cap? nae rush. let the lad announce he'd like to play for Scotland before even being considered.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
We're covered enough for FH, let's see if we can get Hastings some game time first!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Tramptastic wrote:The only counter to this argument, and my own, is Huw Jones - capped for Scotland whilst he was still playing for the Stormers, albeit, he was a regular, playing very well and winning trophies with them.
I forgot Huw!
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Tramptastic wrote:The only counter to this argument, and my own, is Huw Jones - capped for Scotland whilst he was still playing for the Stormers, albeit, he was a regular, playing very well and winning trophies with them.
I was more coming from the point of view that if he leaves NZ then he's not going to get capped for the ABs. Nothing stopping us from capping him now (assuming fit and he wants to join up) but if he's leaving NZ then he's giving up on playing for the ABs.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
EWT Spoons wrote:Tramptastic wrote:The only counter to this argument, and my own, is Huw Jones - capped for Scotland whilst he was still playing for the Stormers, albeit, he was a regular, playing very well and winning trophies with them.
I was more coming from the point of view that if he leaves NZ then he's not going to get capped for the ABs. Nothing stopping us from capping him now (assuming fit and he wants to join up) but if he's leaving NZ then he's giving up on playing for the ABs.
Yeah fair enough, as I said before will definitely follow the situation with interest!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Darge reminds me of the Tom Curry Problem. We all love our opensides and we want them to all be the next David Pocock.NeilyBroon wrote:bsando wrote:Getting away from future of the coaches, who’s stock has risen and who’s has fallen during the championship?
Up
Christie
Harry Paterson
Kyle Rowe
Stafford McDowall
Cummings
Dempsey
Redpath
Down
Ritchie
M fagerson
Kinghorn
Bhatti
Bhatti hasn't even featured for his stock to drop!
I'd put Darge in the Down column. I'd argue that's not necessarily his fault. He should have been either full captain or just focus on playing. Maybe he should captain the summer tour or in the autumn. I think a decision needs to be made on captaincy ASAP.
The hype around Curry on the last Lions tour was deafening and to my eyes he did nothing but look bewildered and concede penalties. I feel it's the same with Darge - test rugby is so much faster and harder than looking great for your club and whilst Darge has been competent for Scotland, it's a reach to say that he shone in any respect. It was interesting in the post-Six Nations that there was far more chat complementing Tommy Reffell than there ever was about Darge - something supported by Reffell's high turnover numbers.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
George Carlin wrote:Darge reminds me of the Tom Curry Problem. We all love our opensides and we want them to all be the next David Pocock.NeilyBroon wrote:bsando wrote:Getting away from future of the coaches, who’s stock has risen and who’s has fallen during the championship?
Up
Christie
Harry Paterson
Kyle Rowe
Stafford McDowall
Cummings
Dempsey
Redpath
Down
Ritchie
M fagerson
Kinghorn
Bhatti
Bhatti hasn't even featured for his stock to drop!
I'd put Darge in the Down column. I'd argue that's not necessarily his fault. He should have been either full captain or just focus on playing. Maybe he should captain the summer tour or in the autumn. I think a decision needs to be made on captaincy ASAP.
The hype around Curry on the last Lions tour was deafening and to my eyes he did nothing but look bewildered and concede penalties. I feel it's the same with Darge - test rugby is so much faster and harder than looking great for your club and whilst Darge has been competent for Scotland, it's a reach to say that he shone in any respect. It was interesting in the post-Six Nations that there was far more chat complementing Tommy Reffell than there ever was about Darge - something supported by Reffell's high turnover numbers.
Darge has had a handful of games where he's stood out for Scotland, I think it's a combo of second season syndrome/captaincy confusion/pressure.
I think next steps has to be streamlining the leadership group. Basically as a senior player your only responsibility should be to maintain your discipline and support the younger players by absorbing more of the pressure. We need someone to actually lead tactics and acknowledge when change is required.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Well I say going. He’s tipped to be a new director of rugby. I’ve no idea if that means he’s be hands on with the national team going forward.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
tigertattie wrote:Word on the street is that Toonie is going.
Well I say going. He’s tipped to be a new director of rugby. I’ve no idea if that means he’s be hands on with the national team going forward.
Hopefully in the same way Scott Johnson was promoted.
All the best to him if that's the case, good recruiter but glad he won't be coaching!
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I have not seen anything to suggest it, though it could easily be a viable option.
My gut feeling remains that we need to get a new CEO in first and then they can lead with the subsequent appointments. DoR and national coach likely being the most pressing of them!
I still suspect this is more likely to be happening next spring than this one!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
BigGee wrote:Any substance to this rumour?
I have not seen anything to suggest it, though it could easily be a viable option.
My gut feeling remains that we need to get a new CEO in first and then they can lead with the subsequent appointments. DoR and national coach likely being the most pressing of them!
I still suspect this is more likely to be happening next spring than this one!
Must admit I've not seen anything to suggest it...
Has tattie got a mole in the executive suite???
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I am not sure it would be that great an appointment
Probably our most pressing need is soneone who understands the commercial imperative of getting the Murrayfield redevelopment on track!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
BigGee wrote:Petrie is not leaving Ulster in a blaze of glory.
I am not sure it would be that great an appointment
Probably our most pressing need is soneone who understands the commercial imperative of getting the Murrayfield redevelopment on track!
Not saying it'd be a good appointment but seems very plausible by SRU standards!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
I do remember him butchering several attempts over the years.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
king_carlos wrote:I was thinking that McFarland might return to either Glasgow or the Scotland team if the setups do change?
Another who has not really come out of Ulster with their reputation enhanced!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
BigGee wrote:Any substance to this rumour?
I have not seen anything to suggest it, though it could easily be a viable option.
My gut feeling remains that we need to get a new CEO in first and then they can lead with the subsequent appointments. DoR and national coach likely being the most pressing of them!
I still suspect this is more likely to be happening next spring than this one!
Yes it has been mentioned by Jason White, Rob Robertson and, just this past Sunday, Graeme McPherson in their respective columns in their tabloids so unfortunately there must be something on this . Any idea when we're likely to hear anything because I presume their will be a 6Ns debrief/review in the not so distant future but I am getting increasingly worried now these rumours seem to be getting louder and more in the public domain :/.
On the weekend action, Cam Redpath also had a good game but Arron Reed was denied a try by a magnificent defence by Bath plus a certain Mr Maitland showed the national team that he is still capable of good things!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
king_carlos wrote:I was thinking that McFarland might return to either Glasgow or the Scotland team if the setups do change?
McFarland wasn't treated very well by the SRU apparently. After seeing the decline in Ulster would rather he steers clear! The SRU create enough of their own missteps without adding new chaos!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
Highland Shaun wrote:BigGee wrote:Any substance to this rumour?
I have not seen anything to suggest it, though it could easily be a viable option.
My gut feeling remains that we need to get a new CEO in first and then they can lead with the subsequent appointments. DoR and national coach likely being the most pressing of them!
I still suspect this is more likely to be happening next spring than this one!
Yes it has been mentioned by Jason White, Rob Robertson and, just this past Sunday, Graeme McPherson in their respective columns in their tabloids so unfortunately there must be something on this . Any idea when we're likely to hear anything because I presume their will be a 6Ns debrief/review in the not so distant future but I am getting increasingly worried now these rumours seem to be getting louder and more in the public domain :/.
On the weekend action, Cam Redpath also had a good game but Arron Reed was denied a try by a magnificent defence by Bath plus a certain Mr Maitland showed the national team that he is still capable of good things!
Not to cast doubt on that, but didn’t Robertson mention it in relation to White writing about it in his column, with White saying there was nothing in it, other than he thought Toonie would be suited to the role and might fancy it? Also all 3 of them write for the same newspaper* so might be nothing more than just them building a bit of noise around each others articles.
It could very well happen, but I wouldn’t suggest there was a great deal of substance around this
*Using the term newspaper very loosely
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
EWT Spoons wrote:Highland Shaun wrote:BigGee wrote:Any substance to this rumour?
I have not seen anything to suggest it, though it could easily be a viable option.
My gut feeling remains that we need to get a new CEO in first and then they can lead with the subsequent appointments. DoR and national coach likely being the most pressing of them!
I still suspect this is more likely to be happening next spring than this one!
Yes it has been mentioned by Jason White, Rob Robertson and, just this past Sunday, Graeme McPherson in their respective columns in their tabloids so unfortunately there must be something on this . Any idea when we're likely to hear anything because I presume their will be a 6Ns debrief/review in the not so distant future but I am getting increasingly worried now these rumours seem to be getting louder and more in the public domain :/.
On the weekend action, Cam Redpath also had a good game but Arron Reed was denied a try by a magnificent defence by Bath plus a certain Mr Maitland showed the national team that he is still capable of good things!
Not to cast doubt on that, but didn’t Robertson mention it in relation to White writing about it in his column, with White saying there was nothing in it, other than he thought Toonie would be suited to the role and might fancy it? Also all 3 of them write for the same newspaper* so might be nothing more than just them building a bit of noise around each others articles.
It could very well happen, but I wouldn’t suggest there was a great deal of substance around this
*Using the term newspaper very loosely
Must admit I'm with you and biggee on this, I strongly expect at this stage it's speculation at best.
It doesn't make sense to change things now, much as I'd like things to change.
That being said I'd welcome it if the SRU have pulled a blinder and got a top tier coach in to take the reins, offering toonie a new role to shuffle the deck.
I say all this and they'll have hired Duncan Hodge as new head coach with John Petrie managing the performance pathways.
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
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I boycotted Woodlands Road (apart from the Stravaign) when they closed Uisge Beatha. My favourite old man pub ever.jimbopip wrote:king_carlos wrote:The drop off from Price has been startling and really odd considering he's 30. He's gone from a Lions starter and one of Scotland's most consistent performers, to areally struggling side packed with knitwear models.with his basics. It's not like the Mish situation where you've got an insanely physical player and injuries just caught up. Price is a couple of years younger than Gibson-Park and Faf for instance.
he had a flat right above the motorway junction at Charing Cross. It was a two minute walk from The Arlington on Woodlands Road...they made him move to Luvvietoon ffs!!! What do you expect?
The Bakehouse on Great Western Road is still open, right?
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George Carlin wrote:Haven't seen much chat about it here, but let's take a moment to say well done to our ladies. Sharply taken tries.
Yes it was a great win. Dominated for most of the game - particularly first half - but struggled to get points on the board. Luckily Helen Nelson got all her kicks as that proved the difference in the end.
What an improvement our women's team have had in the last few years!
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Re: Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread
NeilyBroon wrote:BigGee wrote:Any substance to this rumour?
I have not seen anything to suggest it, though it could easily be a viable option.
My gut feeling remains that we need to get a new CEO in first and then they can lead with the subsequent appointments. DoR and national coach likely being the most pressing of them!
I still suspect this is more likely to be happening next spring than this one!
Must admit I've not seen anything to suggest it...
Has tattie got a mole in the executive suite???
I’ve got moles everywhere.
My arms, my back. The skin doctor is particularly watching the one on my right leg but thankfully it’s not been doing much.
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