Scotland - 2024 Victim Support Group Thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures for this year's jamboree:

3 February 2024
16:45 GMT
Wales v Scotland
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zealand)

10 February 2024
14:15 GMT
Scotland v France
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Nic Berry (Australia)

24 February 2024
16:45 GMT
Scotland v England
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Andrew Brace (Ireland)

9 March 2024
15:15 CET (UTC+1)
Italy v Scotland
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)

16 March 2024
16:45 WET
Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Matthew Carley (England)

Let's get our post-traumatic stress disorder and excuses in early.

[NeilyBroon]

I just hope we don’t try and ‘win it’ in the first twenty minutes.

We'll probably do this year in reverse, excellent first 20 followed by 60 minutes of headlessness

[NeilyBroon]

It's that time when I get flashbacks to 2010. I think that was the game of that generation's lifetime! Still managed to lose though..

[jimbopip]

I don't see wales winning a close match. My big fear is we go all out, as bsando fears, in the first 15 minutes and get caught on the break...then throw caution to wind trying to pull the irons out of the fire and Wales pick us off. So many clichés but that's such a replay of so many Wales v Scotland matches that it deserves them.

[NeilyBroon]

I'm guessing team announcement will be tomorrow pm?

Seems like it's come around very quickly this year!

[RDW]

It's that time when I get flashbacks to 2010. I think that was the game of that generation's lifetime! Still managed to lose though..

Why man, why!

That's those 10 years of therapy ruined.

[bsando]

We haven't won in Cardiff since 2002. Comfortably a generation. (getting closer to 2 generations in some parts of Dundee or Inverclyde).

I was watching that Netflix show and ruminating on how rugby has changed, and have essentially come to the conclusion that it was an entirely different sport back then in what was still the early days of professionalism.

If Scotland win on the weekend they will truly be history makers, pioneers, creating something for the ages. Nothing says early February quite like hoping Gatland makes a tit of himself, but I can't see it. Head says Wales. Heart is refusing to engage. Pancreas admits the possibility of a Scotland win. Gall Bladder notes Scotland's historic mental infirmity.

Wales by 4

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68142533

[George Carlin]

It's that time when I get flashbacks to 2010. I think that was the game of that generation's lifetime! Still managed to lose though..

I honestly think (and this is really, really saying something) that that is still the worst Scotland loss I have ever seen.

2x cards in the last 5 minutes. It was the sickening feeling of inevitability as the clock wound down. The sheer, howl-at-the-moon stupidity of not kicking the restart out on the full to end the game with a draw. And the astonishing smugness of the Original Squashed Goblin, Shane Williams saying in the MoM interview afterwards that he was sure Wales were going to win. That was worse than the RWC refereeing robbery against Australia for me.

[jimbopip]

I've said it before lads...I was there and the mind boggling nature of it almost took away the pain of defeat. Dan Parks was sublime and owned the pitch until he was replaced. Shane Williams single handedly turned the game on its head. It was the most dramatic sporting occasion of my life. And bear in mind 13 year old me was at Hampden Park when Partick Thistle gubbed Celtic in the league Cup final.

[NeilyBroon]

I've said it before lads...I was there and the mind boggling nature of it almost took away the pain of defeat.  Dan Parks was sublime and owned the pitch until he was replaced. Shane Williams single handedly turned the game on its head. It was the most dramatic sporting occasion of my life. And bear in mind 13 year old me was at Hampden Park when Partick Thistle gubbed Celtic in the league Cup final.

I joke about Dan parks but I do genuinely wonder if he was in this generation how would he have fared?

Or is Healy just Dan parks with a bad fake moustache and ginger hairspray?

[BigGee]

Or is Healy just Dan parks with a bad fake moustache and ginger hairspray?

He may also be a slightly better tackler

[RDW]

Given Darge isn't fit it's looking like a strange choice making him co captain. Why not just make Finn solo captain?

If that backrow plays well do you bring him straight in next week because he's named captain? We shouldn't. And I also wouldn't have him on the bench over Dempsey either.

Or maybe this was the plan all along to light a rocket up Ritchie's arse!

[bsando]

I agree, making Finn captain makes sense as he’s going to start every match when fit. Healy may well change the dynamic in time or with a change of head coach, but after some reflection I too see little advantage in making Russell and Darge co-captains. We also have three fantastic open sides and an ageing one (Watson) in competition for the 7 jersey. Making Darge a captain almost ring fences that position off. Darge is a fantastic player and I’m a huge fan, he should earn the right to make that seven jersey his and his alone before being made a captain.

[bsando]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0h8k00d?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Great build up podcast for the game tomorrow. Some excellent points on the team and Scotland’s record in Cardiff.

[NeilyBroon]

Scotland u20s off to a good start against Wales after a shaky first couple of minutes.

Tell you what our hooker does not look under 20, looks like he's served time!

[NeilyBroon]

Mcconnel is rapid on the flank too!

[RDW]

Tell you what our hooker does not look under 20, looks like he's served time!

If he's from Glasgow he probably has!

[RDW]

Loss from the under 20s. We were leading with 10 to go but have away a couple of late tries.

Much improved competitiveness though.

[bsando]

Good to see it was close and not a bloodbath. Seems like they’re better conditioned this year.

[BigGee]

Unfortunately that might have been our best potential match to have won. Hard to imagine Ireland, France or England will be easier than that and we have to play Italy away.

Still a tough campaign coming up Unfortunately but the improved competitiveness is at least a good start.

[RiscaGame]

Unfortunately that might have been our best potential match to have won. Hard to imagine Ireland, France or England will be easier than that and we have to play Italy away.

Still a tough campaign coming up Unfortunately but the improved competitiveness is at least a good start.

Agree that was one they would’ve targeted. Still, if you’re a Dragons supporter like me and things look permanently bleak, to see 4/5 tries scored by Dragons (I think) lifted my spirits at least.

[jimbopip]

Just to be clear...are we Dark Horses yet?

[NeilyBroon]

Just to be clear...are we Dark Horses yet?

We're basically a Lloyds advert, we're that dark a horse.


... Followed swiftly by Scottish widows

[jimbopip]

Omens??
Our seconds were playing away today. Pipetto scored and was MOM IN A 14-7 win.

[king_carlos]

I've just seen that Audrey is on the bench. Is Kiefer injured?

[BigGee]

I've just seen that Audrey is on the bench. Is Kiefer injured?

No, thst was the selection

Kiefer not even in the squad!

[jimbopip]

Rory Sutherland is injured again. Tiffany's/ Schrodinger making his debut.

[NeilyBroon]

Well that was up there with our worst performances.

[jimbopip]

Are we Dark Horses yet? Or glue in waiting?

[NeilyBroon]

Are we Dark Horses yet? Or glue in waiting?

Could be a master plan. Save ourselves for France next week by checking out at half time. Genius I tell you

[NeilyBroon]

This is Italy's year boys. Can't wait to see their little smiling faces when we visit the stadio olympico

[tigertattie]

What the actual F was that?

Seriously. What????

I mean just look at Finn. Runs a beautiful line and pops a gorgeous pass to Duhan who runs the perfect curve to score a majestic try. Then finn tries to chip the ball through when we were making yard after yard with forwards and passing along the backline.

It’s so frustrating being a Scotland fan that in each and every game we entirely switch off for periods. Today it was 35 mins. 36 mins and we’d have lost the match.

[RDW]

Hope everyone's having a therapeutic gin or two tonight. This game is very much an example case of me repeatedly saying 'I'm quite glad the game happens when I'm asleep and I wake up to see the result - far less stressful

It's scary to think what would have happened if we'd lost that...

[RDW]

Well trying to take the positives, for one we actually won in Cardiff against Gatland which in itself is a huge result. When our brains were switched on we looked a real cohesive unit with free flowing attack and threats from everywhere. Yes it was against a poor Wales defence, but at least the players look like they know what they were doing. Ben White was excellent as was Crosbie, who is going to be a huge loss. Kyle Rowe looked classy at 15.

But again this points to a major issue with this group with is mentality. Do Scotland even have a sports psychologist? We're so mentally fragile. Wales scoring a few tries wouldn't have been a big issue as teams inevitably relax when you have a big lead, but not completely switch off. Where was the leadership? Finn kept the team going - Ritchie was absent at a time when we needed him to step up and pull the team together.

Finn in his post match interview said players weren't listening to directions from him on the pitch -  him telling people to leave rucks alone etc.which led to penalties and cards. He said individuals would have to look at their game and why they did it. I wonder if some players will lose their place over that

Without getting too carried away (for obvious reasons!) that second half will be long forgotten if we can keep winning and go to the final weekend in contention for the championship. Plenty 6Ns have been won when a team has scraped through not playing their best. Hopefully we've got our horror show out the way!

[tigertattie]

Rowe classy at 15? I don’t think he took a single high ball cleanly!! Even in the first half he looked well out his depth. But I’m a forward so I’ll bow to your backplay knowledge

[RDW]

He took several high balls. The ones he didn't were typically the 50/50 type takes that could go anywhere. I'm not saying he's the next Rob Kearny but he did a decent job, looked confident in wanting to go for it and had good technique, which is the main thing.

[bsando]

Yeah Rowe did what was asked of him I thought, but probably looked more like a winger playing out of position. Maitland, having played fullback a lot during his early career was a very good substitute for Hogg. His experience would have been pretty handy yesterday.

 It’s definitely a question mark for Scotland with Maitland apparently out of the picture now and Ollie Smith injured. For me Graham is the next cab off the rank after kinghorn and smith but perhaps Hutchinson or Jones deserve a shot vs France?

[NeilyBroon]

Jones has played more at fullback than the rest, and we have redpath who can slot in to centre and is defensively sound.

This leaves us with a bench of hutch and or McDowall covering, which again is no bad thing. Injury dependent I'd look at:

1 Schoe
2 Ashman
3 Fagerson
4 Gilchrist? A N other?
5 Cummings
6 Christie
7 Darge
8 Fagerson

9 White
10 Russell

11 Dwayne
12 Redpath?
13 Tuipolotu?
14 Seaman
15 Shug

Bench
16 Turner
17 Bhatti
18 Nel
19 Skinner
20 Dempsey
21 Horne
22 Healy
23 Hutch/McDowall/Rowe

[NeilyBroon]

Also what has happened in modern rugby about half time subs? I think Scotland, the way we play, would benefit from bringing guys on at half time and give them the time to either maintain a lead or change the momentum. We need to book guys who are racking up the penalty count too.

The one thing we've consistently done poorly is bench management. I mean look at the boks, that basically won them the world cup. Teams like Ireland too are a lot more savvy with it, even England against Italy on Friday used the bench to change the game.

[RDW]

Why we looking for a new fullback...?

Of all the issues from yesterday that's very low down the priority list

Rowe did fine, and will start against France

[BigGee]

I think Kyle Rowe did ok, especially for his first proper cap. He should be better for the experience now.

He was hobbling a bit at the end of the game though, so hopefully he will be fit for next week.

[NeilyBroon]

Why we looking for a new fullback...?

Of all the issues from yesterday that's very low down the priority list

To be fair you're not wrong, I'd not complain if Rowe stayed in position, it's just Shug is more experienced and France will be more ruthless. It's probably shaking up for the sake of it as us armchair pundits like to waste our time doing

[RDW]

Huwipoluto are by far our most experienced centre combo, and centres are the most important combo in terms of defense organisation.

Leave them alone!

[NeilyBroon]

Huwipoluto are by far our most experienced centre combo, and centres are the most important combo in terms of defense organisation.

Leave them alone!

I just want Redpath in there somewhere! If that means butchering the squad then so be it!

I think it'd be fine if we used the bench earlier than 70 minutes. I think toonie should be saying at half time "right lads, the boys on the pitch have done most of the hard work, go out and prove to me that you're good enough to start with them." To be honest with all his analysis and toonieball I'm surprised he's not picked up on the fact that when he makes changes about 9/10 times they have a positive impact.

[RDW]

Huwipoluto are by far our most experienced centre combo, and centres are the most important combo in terms of defense organisation.

Leave them alone!

I just want Redpath in there somewhere! If that means butchering the squad then so be it!

I think it'd be fine if we used the bench earlier than 70 minutes. I think toonie should be saying at half time "right lads, the boys on the pitch have done most of the hard work, go out and prove to me that you're good enough to start with them." To be honest with all his analysis and toonieball I'm surprised he's not picked up on the fact that when he makes changes about 9/10 times they have a positive impact.

TBF if love to see Redpath have a more prominent role but this is the 6N and we've got to go with experience and units.

Redpath made good impact off the bench - just given him more time next game

[Mcsweens]

I was very happy with Rowe, delighted for the guy. Dealt with the Welsh grubbers excellently and did well enough under the high ball.

He did more than enough to keep a starting role next week.

[Mcsweens]

On our mentality:
It's no secret that Scotland can be a mentally shoogly team - and that has been exploited by Gatland in the past.
I think Townsend is probably a factor in this, but I don't think he is asleep to the issue, and has shown a willingness to adapt.

I'd have to rewatch it, but we definitely went into our shells from the 50 minute mark, and lost focus at the end of the first half. Russell started running from deep, and then gave Rowe a hospital pass on our tryline, and so we were pretty lucky not to concede then.

I'm pretty happy we ended the game on their line pushing for our fourth, though. That speaks of progress. Rugby is about learning how to win, and that comes with time.

[NeilyBroon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68194599

Grumpy Tom summarises it nicely.

I think toonie trying to highlight that it was our first win there in 22 years is fair enough, but I'd not class 4 tries to 3 against an inexperienced Welsh side in transition a tide turning moment. That being said if they can pull it off against France next week we may have half a chance of getting second this year. I'm confident we won't be that bad again this tournament (except against Ireland, unless Toonie has exorcised his emerald demons).

That said, I do think we can safely write Dublin off as it's the last game and Ireland will no doubt be chasing another GS barring a collosal upset.

[BigGee]

Being 27 points up in a 6N match was definitely not a position we have been in before, so maybe some understanding of how it caused our concentration to wander off.

You don't become a killer team overnight unfortunately, especially when you are more used to being on the other end of those scores.

Hopefully they do learn something from the experience. As ever in the 6N they need to pack it up and move on. A wounded France awaits.

[George Carlin]

Temperamentally we are slightly less stable than a toddler who has just dropped their ice cream on the floor.

Seriously now - do you recall any other international side whose ability to implode has been discussed quite as often as ours?

[NeilyBroon]

Temperamentally we are slightly less stable than a toddler who has just dropped their ice cream on the floor.

Seriously now - do you recall any other international side whose ability to implode has been discussed quite as often as ours?

France.

And Ireland's ability to choke at world cups.

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