England's winter of cricket 2024/25

First topic message reminder :

The squad for the tour of Pakistan has just been announced...Stokes and Crawley are back, with Dan Lawrence dropped. There are also recalls for Rehan Ahmed and Jack Leach, with Brydon Carse getting a tour also.

Full squad (likely XI then others);

Zak Crawley
Ben Duckett
Ollie Pope
Joe Root
Harry Brook
Ben Stokes
Jamie Smith (wk)
Gus Atkinson
Olly Stone
Jack Leach
Shoaib Bashir

Reserves:
Jordan Cox
Brydon Carse
Rehan Ahmed
Chris Woakes
Josh Hull
Matthew Potts

Will MacPherson noting they see Tom Hartley as more suited for the true turning wickets of SL/India/Bangladesh, hence his omission. Tests likely to be played at Rawalpindi, Multan, Rawalpindi. (Two Pindi tests...fun).

Extra seamers suggest Stokes might not be fit to bowl?

Indeed think we can leave Ashes discussions for the time being. And I would suggest that no matter what stable of bowlers England take next year the real key to their chances will be whether the batting group - particularly 1-3  - are able to perform. But anyway , later...

Is anyone expecting to see bashir and maybe leach bowl today? Or do you think pope will just stick with the seamers and expect them to roll through them?

Meanwhile , the thrilling conclusion to this exciting contest still awaits (insert heavy sarcasm emoji) as Pakistan survive the first ten minutes. Honestly , while I do salute England's fine performance in this match , I think if many more games like this were served up I'd prefer to go and watch almost anything else bar golf Surely only a stats fanatic could really enjoy this stuff for five days ? Very hard to see Pakistan coming back from this one (and that is not an attempted jinx , honestly ) Wonder what the attendance figures are for today ? I have counted at least half a dozen but they may all be groundstaff and photographers...

Atkinson looking good this morning, need to plug the gap through third man though too easy to run the ball down there and pick up easy runs

Hi Wisden: I certainly wouldn't want to overwork any of the seamers with another match imminent , so I'd imagine if wickets don't fall soon we will see Leach and Bashir getting a solid go. Carse seems to be full of energy this morning judging by this quite lively first over so perhaps he is the most likely to get the break. Do fancy one will bring three but they need to get that one and you have to credit these two bats with a lot more resolve than the top order.

Looking to the second test abrar won't be fit and was largely in effective anyway so he won't play..I wonder who Pak turn to in the spin department....Zahid Mahmood is in the squad but he went for plenty of runs last time England were in Pakistan....that cupboard looks bare..and they need to find some quicks with pace...what's happened to mohammed hasnain? He was rapid last time he was seen....

So time for Tapal Tea with no break yet. Very solid hundred stand from these two and frankly the England pace bowlers haven't really looked likely to get a wicket...the one from Carse that hit the helmet being the most menacing thing we have seen so far. Still 78 behind but these two are battling it out well and making England earn their inevitable triumph. Here's Leach after the drink break...

And Leach does the trick immediately...lbw , reviewed but that is Stone dead...Salman gone for a fine 63 and The End is Nigh...

Didn't take long for Leach! England weren't getting worried, but that partnership had done well and was starting to frustrate. Reckon this will end quickly now

Not much luck for Carse...just like last night , short ball , pulled in air...this time Pope makes a mess of the chance ( a bit harder than Bashir's but Pope would normally take that) Jamal has played well for his fifty , he and Shaheen are just going to whack anything short now...can't blame them.

Moght be time to let Bashir have another go. He's been poor here but a chance for him to finish on a high wouldn't be a bad idea. And why exhaust the seamers ? Batsmen aren't taking any chances with Leach but might get a bit too frisky against Bashir. Still Carse for now but not much longer surely as he's bowled 15 already...

Really brilliant c&b by Jack Leach ! Three for him now and has he maybe shown he's currently still England's best spin option ? One to go ...

All done....the easiest of stumpings for Smith , four wickets for Leach , and a sort of record win despite losing the toss and conceding 550 in the first innings... Long way back in this series for Pakistan.

Pretty embarrassing effort by Pakistan. Wasn't nearly the minefield they made it into

Brook and Root racking up the rupees in the after game presentations...nice to Leach getting the token award to a bowler (think they all deserve something for toiling on that strip !) Just watching today it is clear that the difference between this result and a bore draw was Pakistan's failure to negotiate the first twenty overs of their second innings because there was nothing there for any bowler with a ball once it started to soften. Obviously the physical and mental effect of being battered by Harry and Joe had a lot to do with it but it really is becoming a habit for Pakistan. On to another match in the same place : any chance they can juice up the strip I wonder ?

It really was bad, England dropped 5 catches I think. So created 14 chances in 55 overs on one of the flattest pitches ever created

Pak crushed & humiliated but they don't feel embarrassment & humiliation is what I feel.

I have so many questions for PCB & all variants coming down to essentially one question
Why the Eff did you prepare & continue to make these flat bed type of pitch AGAIN.
Have they not heard of Einstein's definition of insanity which is to keep doing the same thing over & over again and yet expect different results

Eng ruthlessly exposed Pak & then squashed them....and it will be more of the same unless Pak does something drastically different like making an under-prepared Rank Turner

KP_fan wrote:Pak crushed & humiliated but they don't feel embarrassment & humiliation is what I feel.

I have so many questions for PCB & all variants coming down to essentially one question
Why the Eff did you prepare & continue to make these flat bed type of pitch AGAIN.
Have they not heard of Einstein's definition of insanity which is to keep doing the same thing over & over again and yet expect different results

Eng ruthlessly exposed Pak & then squashed them....and it will be more of the same unless Pak does something drastically different like making  an under-prepared Rank Turner

But even if they do produce said spin-dizzy strip , Pakistan just don't have the likes of Ashwin Jadeja Axar and Kuldeep , do they ? In fact if Abrar is the best they can offer in the spin department would they do any better with that option ? They just look too easily ready to roll over to any pressure at present so not sure there is any easy solution. Is it the leadership ? They do have a few players with obvious ability ; but they just aren't putting it together in recent times so hard to see anything but 0-3 in this series and heaven knows where from there...

Another terrific win by England and made possible by their phenomenal rate of scoring (and, of course, an all-too-familiar brainfart from Pakistan).

Back in the day, a score of 800 following one of 550 would have taken up pretty much the whole match*. England, though, were in a position to declare and give themselves time to bowl P out.

I still thought P would be able to bat it out, or at the very least, take it deep into the last day. The 7th-wicket pair showed what could have been done but it was too little too late.

So the list of wins-from-nearly-impossible-positions continues for England.

* At Manchester in 1964, Australia and England both made 600 but there was barely time to start the third innings of the match. Here in Multan we had three innings and nearly 1,600 runs and that with two sessions unused.

alfie wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Pak crushed & humiliated but they don't feel embarrassment & humiliation is what I feel.

I have so many questions for PCB & all variants coming down to essentially one question
Why the Eff did you prepare & continue to make these flat bed type of pitch AGAIN.
Have they not heard of Einstein's definition of insanity which is to keep doing the same thing over & over again and yet expect different results

Eng ruthlessly exposed Pak & then squashed them....and it will be more of the same unless Pak does something drastically different like making  an under-prepared Rank Turner

But even if they do produce said spin-dizzy strip , Pakistan just don't have the likes of Ashwin Jadeja Axar and Kuldeep , do they ?  In fact if Abrar is the best they can offer in the spin department would they do any better with that option ?  They just look too easily ready to roll over to any pressure at present so not sure there is any easy solution.  Is it the leadership ? They do have a few players with obvious ability ; but they just aren't putting it together in recent times so hard to see anything but 0-3 in this series and heaven knows where from there...

The thing with under-prepared / Rank Turners is that the pitch props up the mediocre spinners to the same level as extra skillful ones.
Turning the game into a Lottery
Such were the pitches where Root & Michale Clarke have taken Fifers.

Pak can bring Imad Wasim, Shadab Khan, Usama Mir who are not great but on rank turners will be as potent as any.
They must be having half a dozen average spinners in country

Great win by England, not a great first day but from there on they were very professional and ruthless. Stuck at their task very well in the first innings to restrict Pakistan and then obviously superb from Root and Brook as Pakistan lost their heads in the field.
Less said about Pakistan's batting second time up the better, but England's bowlers did manage to get more out of the wicket on day four than the Pakistani bowlers, which should be credited.

The 2nd test in the recent Bangladesh had a far more sporting pitch for the bowlers, and that was back to back tests in Pindi. Hopefully they can do something similar with the 2nd test strip in Multan.

sirfredperry wrote:Another terrific win by England and made possible by their phenomenal rate of scoring (and, of course, an all-too-familiar brainfart from Pakistan).

Back in the day, a score of 800 following one of 550 would have taken up pretty much the whole match*. England, though, were in a position to declare and give themselves time to bowl P out.

Yes that was that Era not too far back...1997 as in score card link
India made 537/8d & SL burnt the rest of time batting out their first inning to 900+

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/india-tour-of-sri-lanka-1997-62338/sri-lanka-vs-india-1st-test-63762/full-scorecard

This is the era now when Eng won with 2 sessions to spare and India beat BD with 2 sessions to spare after more than 2 days were washed off.
Test cricket is unofficially now in two tiers.

Good win for England.

Weird thing to say, but Pakistan's 556 was short of par. Par probably being 700! And if Woakes took that worldie of a catch, which he was so close to doing, then Pakistan might have been bundled out for just 450. England's bats applied themselves well, and I hope they continue that approach through the series. In the last test v Sri Lanka they were downright careless.

Pakistan's collapse in the third innings was started from that beauty by Woakes, who immediately caused panic in their ranks. But overall Pakistan are low on everything - confidence, form and belief. That's why I predicted 3-0 England, and England should move forward and win the series next week.

Woakes got through 35 overs in this; Atkinson 39; Carse 38. You'd think one would be rotated out in favour of Potts, with Stone unlikely to be available. It would be a risk to rotate two out if Stokes claims his availability to bowl, but it could happen. I'd get Rehan in for Bashir as well, but I accept it's unlikely to happen. Bashir offers very little to this team, with match figures of 1/156, the worst for England in this game, a terrible drop, and nothing with the bat if required.

Pakistan will presumbly be replacing Abrar with Noman Ali. Unsure if they'll make further changes. Will they dare to drop Babar, like they dropped Shaheen for Bangladesh?

Generally a good performance by England - very flat wicket that the bowlers kept plugging away on and never let Pakistan really get away from them even if 550 looked a good score late on day 2. Someone made the point that while there were 3 centurions, only Masood went on to make a reasonably big hundred. None of England's bowlers went at more than 4 an over.

As for England's batting, obviously epic from Brook and great from Root, with decent contributions from Crawley and Duckett, and scoring at close to 5.5 an over set the game up for us to at least have a chance of attacking Pakistan's second innings.

And then some good bowling and some baffling batting from Pakistan yesterday afternoon. The only Pakistan batsmen to come out of that with any credit were Salman and Aamer Jamal, who showed heart once the game appeared lost to at least take it into day 5 and for a while make it look like it might not be an innings defeat.

Biggest negative for England was that they missed 4 or 5 easy chances in the field plus 3 or 4 tough ones - need to be better than that against the top sides .

One huge point of difference - and a highly unusual statistic : in 150 overs that England batted , Pakistan managed to bowl just one maiden over. (21 in 149 overs in the Pakistan first innings.)

I am all for attacking bowling - as are Stokes and McCullum , as we know ; but on a pitch like this , managing at times to restrain the scoring can make a important contribution.

For all its moments of individual brilliance, cricket is still very much a team game, with the team being not just the 11 on the field but the management and back-room staff as well.

Baz has so instilled into this England side the importance of team spirit and an attacking approach, with captain Stokes totally buying into these concepts, that the players feel that nothing is a lost cause, that they can and will win and that they'll entertain while doing so.

The result has been one of the most extraordinary and exhilerating periods in English Test history in all its near-150 of existence. There have been record-breaking 4th innings run chases, wins from impossible positions and, at Multan now, the re-writing of the history books.

Contrast, too, the players' performances. Practically every new player has come into the side and done well straight away. We saw the beginning of this in the 2000s with the likes of Trescothick, Vaughan, Strauss, Pietersen and Prior.

Entering a happy, welcoming dressing room helps. So does the absence of fear of failure together with the licence that players have to go on all-out attack.

Would a Brook, Duckett or a Crawley have excelled in a 1990s England side under curmudgeonly Illingworth and grumpy Atherton? Probably not.

All this may not last of course. But they promised us a hell of a ride and so it's proving.

alfie wrote:One huge point of difference  - and a highly unusual statistic :  in 150 overs that England batted , Pakistan managed to bowl just one maiden over. (21 in 149 overs in the Pakistan first innings.)

I am all for attacking bowling - as are Stokes and McCullum , as we know ; but on a pitch like this , managing at times to restrain the scoring can make a important contribution.

I actually felt like they were trying to do that against Root and Brook at times. They just batted really well though. Root is probably the best I've ever seen for rotating the strike. Whilst Brook is pretty good at that too. Especially against seam.

I think they could've attempted more of simply trying to bore Brook into a dumb shot. Bowling way outside off stump with a 7-2 field or leg theory from the seamers. Or the spinners bowling into his legs from around the wicket. Sri Lanka got some joy boring Brook like that.

I actually thought Naseem mostly bowled fantastically in the circumstances. Which seems absurd given his stats, but, I did. Especially on D3. Whilst Jamal and Shaheen bowled well too at times in brutal conditions.

Abrar seeming to have been worked out a bit really hampered them though. That's not uncommon for unusual spinners. He's a leggie by description but almost more of a finger spinner in how he bowls. When he first broke into Tests after one freakish domestic F-C season it looked like players really couldn't pick him at all. Either they are picking him now and/or they've realised that he isn't getting the revs on the ball for them to need to double guess it. A bit of an Ajantha Mendis feel to that situation for me.

That is then compounded by Agha not really being a second spinner. On these wickets they should probably have him batting a spot higher with another spinner in the side who can bat 7 or 8 at a push. That should probably be someone like Shadab Khan but he's been very up and down for a while as a bowler.

Duty281 wrote:Good win for England.

Weird thing to say, but Pakistan's 556 was short of par. Par probably being 700! And if Woakes took that worldie of a catch, which he was so close to doing, then Pakistan might have been bundled out for just 450. England's bats applied themselves well, and I hope they continue that approach through the series. In the last test v Sri Lanka they were downright careless.

Pakistan's collapse in the third innings was started from that beauty by Woakes, who immediately caused panic in their ranks. But overall Pakistan are low on everything - confidence, form and belief. That's why I predicted 3-0 England, and England should move forward and win the series next week.

Woakes got through 35 overs in this; Atkinson 39; Carse 38. You'd think one would be rotated out in favour of Potts, with Stone unlikely to be available. It would be a risk to rotate two out if Stokes claims his availability to bowl, but it could happen. I'd get Rehan in for Bashir as well, but I accept it's unlikely to happen. Bashir offers very little to this team, with match figures of 1/156, the worst for England in this game, a terrible drop, and nothing with the bat if required.

Pakistan will presumbly be replacing Abrar with Noman Ali. Unsure if they'll make further changes. Will they dare to drop Babar, like they dropped Shaheen for Bangladesh?

I wouldn't be stunned if England go in unchanged...but there is also the possibility they make lots of changes! Will be interesting to see how they handle it all.

If he's fit enough to bowl, and the wicket is similar to this one...I would actually go Stokes for Bashir, and Woakes for Potts. I don't think you need two spinners on a wicket like that, and having four seam options would be better for England I fancy (Root to bowl a few if needed). That is predicated on Stokes being able to get through 10-15 overs in a day though, which is potentially unlikely if he wasn't fit for T1.

Think the most likely would be Stokes in a straight swap with Pope. Not sure much else is likely

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:...
...
I wouldn't be stunned if England go in unchanged...but there is also the possibility they make lots of changes! Will be interesting to see how they handle it all.

If he's fit enough to bowl, and the wicket is similar to this one...I would actually go Stokes for Bashir, and Woakes for Potts. I don't think you need two spinners on a wicket like that, and having four seam options would be better for England I fancy (Root to bowl a few if needed). That is predicated on Stokes being able to get through 10-15 overs in a day though, which is potentially unlikely if he wasn't fit for T1.

Hi Olly - I fully understand your ''Stokes for Bashir'' and the concerns about the latter as set out by Duty in his earlier post.

However, as you touch on, that does raise a potential concern about sharing out the overs and the likely demands on Stokes and perhaps also Root.

Although he didn't bowl well, Bashir did send down 18 overs on day one of T1. Making those up (if we have to) could be tricky.

alfie wrote:Meanwhile , the thrilling conclusion to this exciting  contest still awaits (insert heavy sarcasm emoji) as Pakistan survive the first ten minutes. Honestly , while I do salute England's fine performance in this match  , I think if many more games like this were served up I'd prefer to go and watch  almost anything else bar golf      Surely only a stats fanatic could really enjoy this stuff for five days ?  Very hard to see Pakistan coming back from this one (and that is not an attempted jinx , honestly ) Wonder what the attendance figures are for today ? I have counted at least half a dozen but they may all be groundstaff and photographers...

Hi Alfie and all - Whilst I wouldn't want too many Tests to be similar (desiring a fairer contest between bat and ball and all that), I actually enjoyed this match and not particularly for the stats. I found it fascinating as I marvelled at England's stamina and fitness together with the psychological strength to concede more than 550 runs first innings in hugely oppressive conditions and then come back to win by an innings. An outstanding performance and victory.

Just a few quick asides.

Very taken with Carse. His bowling yesterday and today was probably the best twofer I've ever witnessed. Undoubtedly deserved more. Hope he can forgive Bashir for that boundary drop before I will - dreadful.

Brook's triple ton justified his MotM award but he owes Root a large swig from any bottle of champagne he got with it. Brook joined Root with a lot of the heavy lifting done and the scoreboard reading 249/3. Root arrived at the crease with the score at 4/1 and some tv viewers heading behind the sofa.

Alfie has already nicked built on my point from the other day about the absence of maidens bowled by Pakistan. Such an inability to exert any form of control over 150 overs is not good enough.

If all of England's team from this Test are physically fit, I would go with the same eleven for T2 and allow Stokes another week to hopefully ensure an even better recovery. However, I wouldn't be amazed if one of the batters drops out with a niggle. Although he was no more than ordinary, I would give Bashir one more opportunity and, if no improvement, consider alternative options for T3.

I'd persevere with Bashir too. I think there's so much there to work with. He can bowl balls that few English spinners can. Obviously, he needs experience to add consistency and guile. I think the payoff will be worth giving him time though. Understandable that others disagree after a weaker performance.

If the tracks remain this dead, then I definitely think you need two front line spinners just to share the sheer number of overs. Even if Root would've produced the same figures as this poorer Bashir performance, would he have then been as likely to score a double ton? I wouldn't think so. Obviously this was an extreme case as he spent 149 overs in the field, had 8 balls break, then batted a day and a half. Root genuinely sounded almost drunk from exhaustion in his interview after D3 though! I don't want to add more overs a day to his workload in this heat.

Leach (40), Bash (32) and Root (7) took 79 of the 149 overs England bowled in the first innings. They also took 5 of the wickets. The seamers bowled really well across the match but those overs of spin allow them to be used more sparingly. The periods where seam look threatening are so fleeting that I'm not sure a 4th seamer would really add massively. I think it would put more strain on all the seamers and subsequently more strain on Root turning his arm over to give them breaks.

On these bizarre pitches, I think 2 spinners and 3 seamers is the right balance. Even if the numbers bear out that seam has a lower average. Use your three seamers in periods where the ball is still hard and in shorter bursts as a bit more pace usually extracts variable up and down bounce better. Then use the two spinners to take on the dog overs where these awful pitches give you no choice but to just get through an hour (or more) of purgatory.

Tricky selection  , isn't it ? Lot depends on how fit Stokes is to bowl; : if he's severely limited then he could only really replace a batsman. If he can bowl a full quota then it probably depends on the pitch whether you take a chance on just having one full time spinner or not. The pace men all bowled a solid number of overs in the heat so need to have attention to how they have all pulled up before considering what to do in terms of rest and rotation.

Bashir was pretty disappointing and couldn't really complain if he were left out (even for Rehan if they wanted to beef up the late order batting) ; but I'm not against keeping him if the balance suits.  What I will say about him is that he does have a lot of promise : but if they seriously think he is likely to prove some sort of "weapon" next year in Australia they are dreaming. A host of more experienced and indeed very classy finger spinners have gone to Australia and had close to zero wicket taking impact : to be an effective choice there you really need to offer (a) some serious control with the ball in support of your seam bowling teammates , and (b) preferably add something with the bat. The latter being more or less important depending on the batting skills or otherwise of the chosen seamers. So as long as it isn't all about the Ashes by all means give him plenty of opportunity - but don't be blind to alternatives. Winning the next game always foremost for me...

Think Pakistan have more problems picking their team after that display !

guildfordbat wrote:

alfie wrote:Meanwhile , the thrilling conclusion to this exciting  contest still awaits (insert heavy sarcasm emoji) as Pakistan survive the first ten minutes. Honestly , while I do salute England's fine performance in this match  , I think if many more games like this were served up I'd prefer to go and watch  almost anything else bar golf      Surely only a stats fanatic could really enjoy this stuff for five days ?  Very hard to see Pakistan coming back from this one (and that is not an attempted jinx , honestly ) Wonder what the attendance figures are for today ? I have counted at least half a dozen but they may all be groundstaff and photographers...

Hi Alfie and all - Whilst I wouldn't want too many Tests to be similar (desiring a fairer contest between bat and ball and all that), I actually enjoyed this match and not particularly for the stats. I found it fascinating as I marvelled at England's stamina and fitness together with the psychological strength to concede more than 550 runs first innings in hugely oppressive conditions and then come back to win by an innings. An outstanding performance and victory.

Just a few quick asides.

Very taken with Carse. His bowling yesterday and today was probably the best twofer I've ever witnessed. Undoubtedly deserved more. Hope he can forgive Bashir for that boundary drop before I will - dreadful.

Brook's triple ton justified his MotM award but he owes Root a large swig from any bottle of champagne he got with it. Brook joined Root with a lot of the heavy lifting done and the scoreboard reading 249/3. Root arrived at the crease with the score at 4/1 and some tv viewers heading behind the sofa.

Alfie has already nicked built on my point from the other day about the absence of maidens bowled by Pakistan. Such an inability to exert any form of control over 150 overs is not good enough.

If all of England's team from this Test are physically fit, I would go with the same eleven for T2 and allow Stokes another week to hopefully ensure an even better recovery. However, I wouldn't be amazed if one of the batters drops out with a niggle. Although he was no more than ordinary, I would give Bashir one more opportunity and, if no improvement, consider alternative options for T3.

Haha ... well I was being just a little over grumpy about the enjoyment level - as you say , there was indeed a lot of interest in observing the resolution of the England response to , in particular , the first two sessions of the match. But the uneven nature of the bat/ball "contest" made much of the latter part of England's mammoth innings about as exciting to watch as one of those second innings target setters from a team already leading by a lot. And even the Pakistan second innings fold up seemed inevitable once the first wicket went down - they were clearly mentally shot ; so the usual level of tension in a Test Match just wasn't there.  Outstanding by England yes  - but a bit too much like that match against Ireland in 2023 - and at least they made England bat (albeit briefly) "twice" !  Hopefully the next two matches will offer something more in the way of a contest - and at least something in the pitch to assist the poor bowlers !

Agree Carse was quite impressive. His energy was excellent in trying conditions - but I do hope they don't ask him to do too much of this short stuff to the exclusion of "normal bowling as he produced a couple of very nice strikes with full pitched deliveries and I don't
want to discourage more of those.  Also to add to the batting : I reckon Crawley and Duckett have been a little overlooked due to that extraordinary Root/Brook stand . Neither "went on" ; but their aggressive destruction of Pakistan's bowlers in the fairly short period before the ball became as useful to a seamer as a wet sock surely helped set up the two Yorkies for the kill. Which they certainly executed  

Reports are Babar will be dropped for the 2nd test

Also seems like no Shaheen and they are going to re-use the same pitch for the 2nd test - with it likely to be very dry and spin a fair bit, as Pakistan pivot to try and produce a “result” wicket

In the aftermath of T1 Pak finalized a new selection committee on Friday which has met already two times and the monkey for the ignominous defeat likely to be put on Babar & Afridi both of whom likely to be dropped.
Although Afridi might be given face saving by blaming his knee.

Committee & Captain met the Chief curator , surprisingly an Australian named Tony Hemming urging him to produce a "better" pitch.
It seems they will go for the most obvious route, a dry grassless rank turner which I wondered should have been their ploy from the start.
Pak might bring in off spinner Sajid Khan and SLA Noman Ali for Abrar & Afridi
And some batter will replace Babar.

It would be hard for Eng to drop Bashir if these were the circumstances

19 yr old Mehran Mumtaz (SLA) and Haeebullah (WK) have been added to squad and Old Sarfaraz relased , deemed too political a figure in dressing room is being reported in SM quoting Pak TV channels.
Geo TV is reporting a big churn with selection comitte calling upon ex greats Misbah  & Shoiab Malik as mentors.

There is panic, hurt, desire to fix immediately which is good to see if they can work cohesively.

And the irony.for England is that they are looking so balanced that unless Stokes bowls he cannot come back in, or unless they drop the historic winning captain Pope to accommodate Stokes

Reusing the same pitch is definitely an idea I'm on board with. It was still a good batting wicket at the end of the first test, but will have a bit for the bowlers. Bounce might be a bit low, with the odd grubber right from the off. But certainly better than another road with a comically short boundary on one side, as was the original plan.

Looks like test eleven was the wake up call for the PCB! And Gillespie was putting pressure on as well.

But it still sounds like Pakistan are in a total mess. Dropping Babar is the right thing. His current run without a test fifty is only equalled by tailenders, I believe. However, Masood and Gillespie both gave their public support to Babar, and seemed to want to retain him in the side, but the Pakistan selection committee have overruled them (the committee includes former umpire Aleem Dar, oddly enough; would England ever give Michael Gough a word on selection?). Masood and Gillespie are part of the committee, but didn't attend the recent meeting.

All a total mess for Pakistan and it's up to England to remain focused and pile on the agony and win the series this week.

England will likely name their team today. Stokes is expected to come in for Woakes, with Carse and Atkinson likely to be retained. Rehan took part in what the BBC call 'optional training' today, alongside Bashir, so maybe a tight battle for the final spot? I'm OK with Stokes in for Woakes on a used pitch. If it were another road, I'd rather Stokes in for Pope.

Stokes going in for Woakes suggests he's full go as a bowler which seems a rather large risk after he wasn't fit at all for T1. Maybe this one will be a square turner after 4 days of play but not sure England needed more batting all the same.

Shan Masood (captain), Saud Shakeel (vice-captain), Aamir Jamal, Abdullah Shafique, Haseebullah (wicket-kepeer), Kamran Ghulam, Mehran Mumtaz, Mir Hamza, Mohammad Ali, Mohammad Huraira, Mohammad Rizwan (wicket-keeper), Noman Ali, Saim Ayub, Sajid Khan, Salman Ali Agha and Zahid Mehmood.

Naseem Shah, Babar, Sarfarz, Afridi the seniors are out.
Sajid , Mehran, Noman, Zahid Mehmood are 4 spinners 2 of whom will play.
Kamran ghulam the uncapped and talked about batter who will replace Babar.
Amir Jamal will.hold as 1 seamer.
1.addtional seamer will come in probably left armer Mir Hamza

Naseem being dropped is ridiculous, he was by a fair distance their best bowler I thought.

Seems a bit like rearranging deckchairs on the titanic to me.

All indications are Stokes is full go to bowl - was bowling most days through the test and has trained fully including bowling in between now. Him coming in for Woakes makes sense, on that proviso.

It's a total mess.

That's their squad for the 2nd *and* 3rd test. Why have they removed Naseem? He was their best bowler in the first test. No Shaheen or Babar for tests two and three leaves them bereft of experience, and I didn't think Shaheen was too bad in the first test.

I haven't got a single clue what they're doing. Gillespie should tender his resignation as getting embroiled with this car crash will only damage his reputation.

A look at some of their debutants who might play:

Ghulam - FC batting average of 49, 16 centuries in 98 innings. 29 years old. Can bowl slow left arm, but a FC bowling average of 46 indicates this to be very part time.
Haseebullah Khan - WK, not expected to play, just a reserve. 21 years old. FC average of 38.45.
Mumtaz - Left arm spinner, also 21. Averages nearly 34 with the ball in FC cricket.

Pakistan are likely to go with two spinners in their XI, which will likely be Noman Ali, who last played a test in 2023, and Sajid Khan, who made a very ordinary start to his test career (25 wickets @ 38) before being dropped.

Why they dropped Naseem is in my view to get rid of one faction /lobby inside the squad which seemingly lynchpinned around Sarfaraz....and included Naseem also.

Mohd Hurierra in the squad is another uncapped batter averaging 53
I think he might play and Saim Ayub might sit out.

Duty281 wrote:It's a total mess.

That's their squad for the 2nd *and* 3rd test.

Dropping the entire specialist bowling attack from the first test for the rest of the series is an interesting choice...

Naseem is odd, by far the pick of their bowlers on a road. Shaheen struggling for form a bit

Abrar out regardless I guess.

I'm sure England will be delighted to see Babar and Shaheed omitted. Surely you back your best batsman to come good, although Babar has had a very long run of poor form.

Didn't England once drop Hutton during a home Ashes series? That was crazy but selectors do weird things when their team is losing.

The Wisden editor described the picking of certain players during England's ill-fated home series v Australia in 1921 as "touching the confines of lunacy".

It certainly looks like they are going to use the same wicket for this Test. But if it turns into a raging bunsen is that going to help Pakistan when England have arguably the world's best player of spin in their ranks?

Naseem getting dropped is ludicrous. He actually bowled pretty well despite his figures. It was a road and their spinners were offering no control.

As an England fan, even with their poor recent form, I'm happier seeing Babar and Shaheen out the team than in it. I don't think their replacements look likely to be any better. Plus, Shaheen actually bowled pretty well at times in T1.

At face value they seem to have made a poor team even worse.

If Stokes is fully fit to bowl then coming back in is fair enough. I'd probably lean towards Stokes for Pope to add a bowling option. Admittedly, I've got a fetish for seeing Stokes batting at 3 more. So I might be biased there. It just feels that using the true all-rounder to add a 6th bowler is better than it adding a 7th batter on this pitch though.

I'd hope that they rotate one of Atkinson or Carse out here, I'd lean towards keeping Carse in, for Potts to keep the seamers fresh. I'd probably try to avoid any of the seamers playing 3 Tests here if possible.

sirfredperry wrote:Didn't England once drop Hutton during a home Ashes series? That was crazy but selectors do weird things when their team is losing.

1948 I believe. Hutton injured his wrist badly during commando training at the outset of WW2. He ended up having bone grafts taken from his leg, his arm ended up about an inch shorter. He could rotate his wrists properly after that, which prevented him hooking or pulling the ball well. Lindwall and Miller therefore bombarded him with short stuff, he struggled with it, the selectors dropped him. He scored runs against that Oz attack for the MCC that summer though. An odd decision, Hutton obviously overcame it to go onto great things.

Hutton's fascinating due to the war interrupting what could've been his peak years and that injury. His record considering that is absolutely remarkable. England had many brilliant batters in those periods. The 30s, 40s and 50s were good times to be an English batter. Bowlers generally came from working class backgrounds, so got more hammered by the wars and ensuing poverty. Whilst the grounds started producing ludicrously flat wickets just to get more days of distraction for the punters. Hutton. Hammond. Compton. May. Barrington. Plenty of batters around then with insane numbers. The circumstances around Hutton's career as well as averaging 55 away from home does make his record pop out though.