My Irish Six Nations Squad

First topic message reminder :

With little over a month to go before the games get under way, Declan Kidney is in camp with some of the squad this week already reviewing the RWC and planning ahead to the six nations.

God willing he has decided on a method of attacking the opposition other than launching Ferris, SOB and Healy at the oppositions defence. There are a lot of things Ireland are good at (like defence, lineout, the breakdown) but we really need to become a modern team in regards to attack. We are still very set in our 2009 ways, with forwards being clumsy and not having the skills to play a high tempo game and the backs rarely breaking the line and not running enough dummy lines.

One would assume the squad will be named in the next 3 weeks or so, that in mind I felt I'd give the squad a bash myself and make a concious effort to do a few things:

a) do well in the competition
b) reward form
c) encourage attacking rugby
d) blood some players [be it as starting for the first time or being included in the squad for the first time}

Bold+underlined=starting player
Underlined=bench
Italic=part of 30 man squad
anything else=extended squad


Props:
Healy-Ross-Court-Buckley-McAllister-Hagan
Healy and Ross are the obvious starters and with only one prop spot on the bench makes sense to put Court there. Buckley in there to cover TH. McAllister and Hagan have been doing ok this season and are young fellas we need to expose to this level of rugby and thus I'd want them in the training squad and then being released back to their provinces when/where possible.

Hookers:
Best-Cronin-Varley-Sherry
This is the logical choice as there is quite a gap in class between each of these players save Varley-Sherry but Sherry has been injured for some time.

Locks:
O'Connell-Ryan-O'Callaghan-Toner-Cullen-Tuohy
I think that Ryan has now surpassed O'Callaghan and should be considered a starter in the Irish team. I think Cullen has played very poorly since he returned from the RWC and that Toner has played very well and thus I would reward form and keep Toner in the 30 man squad.

Backrow:
Ferris-O'Brien-Heaslip-O'Mahoney-Jennings-McLaughlin-Ronan
I would continue with our RWC starting backrow as SOB seems to have been developing into a 7 more over the past 2 months or so. I would bring in Peter O'Mahoney as he has been playing better than most around him regardless of experience he also covers the entire backrow.

Scrumhalves:
Murray-Reddan-Boss-Marshall
I'd continue with the order of our RWC 9's however I think the gap between Boss and Reddan has closed considerably. Marshall beat TOL to the extended squad as I believe Marshall has been on fire and that TOL is a good athlete but a poor scrumhalf.

Flyhalves:
Sexton-O'Gara-Madigan-Keatley
I went for Sexton over O'Gara due to Sexton's better form as of late and also due to his attacking talent. I went for Madigan over keatley as Keatley is blowing hot and cold as of late and Madigan is in unbelievable form with ball in hand.

Centres:
McFadden-Darcy-Cave-O'Malley
I went for McFadden to start ahead of Darcy for a number of reasons but mainly due to how ineffective Darcy is in attack now, he can't break the gainline, rarely makes huge barging runs, his decision making is too slow and often poor. I'd play McFadden at 12 and Bowe at 13 due to his fantastic lines of running, physicality, support play and offloading and his ability to break the line while still being defensively solid and able to distribute. Earls I feel is an out and out winger, lacks the vision and distribution to be a centre, just my opinion though.

Back 3:
Kearney-Earls-Trimble-Bowe-Fitzgerald-Carr
Bowe is in as a winger but will play 13. Kearney at 15 with earls or Fitzgerald covering in Jones' absence. Fitzgerald gets 11 as he has been in very good form since the RWC. Trimble in also as Earls is not starting on the wing currently and Trimble is also playing very well at the moment IMO. Carr to be an extended squad player if his injury isn't too bad.


There ya have it:

Healy-Best-Ross
Ryan-O'Connell
Ferris-Heaslip-O'Brien
Murray-Sexton
McFadden-Bowe
Fitzgerald-Kearney-Trimble

Court-Cronin-O'Callaghan-O'Mahony-Reddan-O'Gara-Earls

I believe that team has a bit more attacking guile and creativity than it did in the RWC (excluding BOD of course). I think if the coaches can coach this team to attack and certain players play almost 'off the ball' this could be quite a slick and skillful team.

Dummy runners are crucial.
Backs running from depth at speed are crucial.
Forwards and backs attacking as one is crucial.
Our rock solid lineout and defence are crucial as is continuing our good work at the breakdown.

We need to blood some players more also, I'd like to see Cronin, Toner, O'Mahoney, Madigan and O'Malley getting some game time even if it is just 20 minutes against Italy or Scotland.

What do others think?
Is this the right squad?
Should Ryan be ahead of O'Callaghan?
Does Toner warrant Cullen's exclusion?
Does POM have what it takes to step up?
Does Marshall's good form warrant leaving TOL out?
Who would you pick Madigan or Keatley?
Does Darcy offer anything anymore worth keeping?
Who is the right call at 13?

kia if we agreed on 15 starters i would be a) amazed and b) worried : )

it may also be a thread with 1000 responses

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:It's madness Red Stag to take the field with just 10 players.

Don't be stupid the other 5 are invisible.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
By the way, did anyone see the interview with Cave last week (think it was the Indo). Was very self-critical. Says he has to do a lot more effort into winning the ball a la BOD & McFadden.

Yes but he actually said that he needed to work a lot harded, in that in the past he was lazy of the ball and its something he's been working to address.

He's a very clever player Cave and thats why I think he'd link very well with Sexton, McFadden, Fitzgerald, Bowe etc. He knows when to run, when to kick and when to pass and thats why with BOD out hes the best option.

I think BOD & D'Arcy are greatly admired for being like extra flankers more than anything else.

That's your problem in a nutshell. You are never happy with a positional player he must be a centre and a flanker, a wing and a centre, a flanker and a centre, a hooker and a flanker etc.

Yeah I was only kidding. Actually I think it seems you can all agree on 11 or 12 players. Just the centres and another winger for Bowe or the locking partner for POC seem the areas for disputes.

I love how you guys seem to debate each position so passionately. In NZ there is still the contingent who believe when Auckland rugby is strong NZ rugby is strong. But generally it doesn´t matter where the player comes from. Just whether he is the best player for the team. Then again club rugby is different in NZ. All the players are centrally contracted and the clubs are feeders for the national squad. In Europe that is not the case and it´s not possible for the national coach to give a quiet word to the club coach and say he´d like to have a look at a player in a certain position.

I think what´s encouraging for Ireland is that there is a lot of continuity for the team. The injury to BOD and the poor form of D'Arcy are the real selection headaches. That´s a concern undoubtedly but when you look at the Home Nations, each one has the same problem to differing degrees: centre pairing. Even France could be argued are not firm in their centres. So that at least makes the problem for me not such a glaring one that can be capitalised on by the other 6N teams.

Glas a du wrote:That's your problem in a nutshell. You are never happy with a positional player he must be a centre and a flanker, a wing and a centre, a flanker and a centre, a hooker and a flanker etc.

Who says anything about not being happy? We work with the cards we're dealt with. When Ireland had a basher 12s, BOD played a different game to what he is playing now.

That's the thing though, France and England will have new coaches and nobody knows how they are going to select their teams. They may also have the new broom effect on performance, which is going to make for an interesting time for Ireland if their midfield is misfiring. The Dublin match verses Wales is crucial. Get that wrong as they did in the World Cup and Ireland's championship might just fall apart in the absence of BOD.

Sin é wrote:I think BOD & D'Arcy are greatly admired for being like extra flankers more than anything else.

That's nonsence. Name me a flanker with 40 odd test tries in a 120 tests. O'Driscoll is one of the best centres ever to play the game and D'arcy at his peak was one of the best attacking players around. The fact that they were so effective at the breakdown maybe added to their worth but it is far from the main reason they are admired.

you have a point glas a du. versatility is good but not sometimes comes at the expense of real balance in the side

sin e im hoping you are referring to drico and darcy as a partnership over the last few years since they have lost pace and acceleration

if that is a blanket statement referring to their careers in green i will find you and chase you around in circles with a hurl

darcy and drico have been responsible for some terrific attacking rugby over their careers in the green and for years were one of the (if not the) best centre partnership

I think he was talking about Maggs.

he got a bite from me anyway if he was being a wind up merchant : )

Its interesting how Fitz is virtually an automatic starter (guess it is only RWC build ups that he is viewed as useless and past it).

I also like how looking back at the RWC where 10-12-13 was ROG-Darcy-BOD. When we always knew ROG would be weaker in defense (and then got pressured with slowish ball from Murray coupled with Warburton reaching him at the same time as the ball). We now know that BOD had only one should and couldn't stand shoulder to shoulder during the anthems without being pain. That the poor sucker in the middle was trying to cover defensive weakness at both sides. And then in attack was getting rushed ball from inside and had a damaged player outside. So Darcy was the weak link in that fine mess of a selection and shouldn't be in the 6N according to the view of 606v2.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
By the way, did anyone see the interview with Cave last week (think it was the Indo). Was very self-critical. Says he has to do a lot more effort into winning the ball a la BOD & McFadden.

Yes but he actually said that he needed to work a lot harded, in that in the past he was lazy of the ball and its something he's been working to address.

He started addressing it during the Munster game. Tackled Nagle (I think), dug the ball out of his arms, counterattack (which ultimately came to nothing, if I recall). Cave's smart enough to know he's got to fight if he wants to earn the green 13 jersey.

Gibson wrote:
Some sharp comments there bud. And, if I were Leo or Jenno, Id say phhookoff, to yet another inadequate Munster International coach. And concentrate on winning another HC.

Cant wait till Elmer Fudge leaves. Then, and only then - will this team shake off its self-restrictive shackels. Attacking-rugby is completly & utterly alien to him. Its obvious. And now, he choses to use a forwards coach as a utility backs coach? Wearesophooked.com.

We can all talk about positions and players, till we're blue in the face. But, Kidney will always limit this team.

Harsh. But true.

Happy new year Gibbo, must admit to being impressed with how quick you are to get your first dig in at DK and Munster

I really do like you as a poster but do wish you could be a little more objective.

I do like the look of your team Pete but am a little suprised to see that you have Bowe penciled in at 13 over Earls? Thats pretty radical since whenever i have seen Bowe play at 13 he has been very dire.
I would have Bowe on the wing and Earls at 13 to be honest.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Its interesting how Fitz is virtually an automatic starter (guess it is only RWC build ups that he is viewed as useless and past it).

I also like how looking back at the RWC where 10-12-13 was ROG-Darcy-BOD. When we always knew ROG would be weaker in defense (and then got pressured with slowish ball from Murray coupled with Warburton reaching him at the same time as the ball). We now know that BOD had only one should and couldn't stand shoulder to shoulder during the anthems without being pain. That the poor sucker in the middle was trying to cover defensive weakness at both sides. And then in attack was getting rushed ball from inside and had a damaged player outside. So Darcy was the weak link in that fine mess of a selection and shouldn't be in the 6N according to the view of 606v2.

All last season Fitz was useless,not past it but as far as I'm concerned he's never reached the level his talents suggest he's capable of.There were signs towards the end of the season that he was finding form but no way was it definitive,he has a few decent games in the Heino semi,final and Magners final but these were solid defensive efforts he still offered very little in attack and was more likely to butcher a chance than take one.The turn around in form so far this year has been astonishing and I hope it continues as he has talents that very few others can match.

In D'Arcy's case he has been pretty ineffectual for quite a while with Ireland,less os with Leinster although I think he is starting to get shown up at provincial level now too.He doesn't pass enough,when he does pass it's very rare he puts a player through a gap and his runs are usually head down into traffic instead of the old jimking drives he used to be capable of.I like D'Arcy and he's been a great servant to Ireland and Leinster over the years but I honestly believe he's unlikely to ever reach those heights again.If he finds form again then great but I ask you to name the last major game for Ireland or Leinster where he was in the top 3 performing players.I can't think of one,I wish I could but a RoG and BoD who can't tackle have both put up numerous displays in the last 2 years where they were top players for their team.D'Arcy for me only plays well when the team plays well,he is unable to rise above his teammates and influence a game anymore,the top players drag their teammates up with them.

anybody who claims a 24 year old is past it is absolutely off their rocker.

he was out of form and i think kidney made the right call not bringing him.

I honestly cant see why D'Arcy is still being spoken about as a starting 12. His form for Ireland has been poor for 2 years (with the exception of one or two matches) and his handling skills just dont seem to be up to it anymore.

Its a real shame as when he is on form he is something special to watch and a defoe starter but he just doesnt have it anymore.

I would also like to see DK be firm and select Sexton as 10 and only using ROG sparingly.

I think Fitz has the curse of utility player on him. I remember seeing him at inside centre against the ABs in Ireland a few years ago and thought he was Ireland´s best player in the backs that day. Then he´s been mentioned at wing and at fullback and never settled down in one position. I think if he does come back and for him to play at wing. Play him there and don´t move him around and he has the pace and the skill to serve Ireland well. But don´t do a Tait or a Hook on this young talented player. Unfortunately, I think that´s already the case.

Fitz is far from finished, he is a quality player and i would like to see him be given a run at 12.

eirebilly wrote:I honestly cant see why D'Arcy is still being spoken about as a starting 12. His form for Ireland has been poor for 2 years (with the exception of one or two matches) and his handling skills just dont seem to be up to it anymore.

I agree...its way past a dip in form now, the pace and acceleration just aren't there anymore and aren't coming back. He doesn't seem to have the power and leg strength now to get over the advantage line now either and looks every one of his 32 years. He's beginning to struggle at provincial level now too and shouldn't be near an Ireland jersey. He was blown away by Roberts in the RWC, something that wouldn't have happened 2 seasons ago.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Its interesting how Fitz is virtually an automatic starter (guess it is only RWC build ups that he is viewed as useless and past it).

I also like how looking back at the RWC where 10-12-13 was ROG-Darcy-BOD. When we always knew ROG would be weaker in defense (and then got pressured with slowish ball from Murray coupled with Warburton reaching him at the same time as the ball). We now know that BOD had only one should and couldn't stand shoulder to shoulder during the anthems without being pain. That the poor sucker in the middle was trying to cover defensive weakness at both sides. And then in attack was getting rushed ball from inside and had a damaged player outside. So Darcy was the weak link in that fine mess of a selection and shouldn't be in the 6N according to the view of 606v2.

All last season Fitz was useless,not past it but as far as I'm concerned he's never reached the level his talents suggest he's capable of.There were signs towards the end of the season that he was finding form but no way was it definitive,he has a few decent games in the Heino semi,final and Magners final but these were solid defensive efforts he still offered very little in attack and was more likely to butcher a chance than take one.The turn around in form so far this year has been astonishing and I hope it continues as he has talents that very few others can match.

In D'Arcy's case he has been pretty ineffectual for quite a while with Ireland,less os with Leinster although I think he is starting to get shown up at provincial level now too.He doesn't pass enough,when he does pass it's very rare he puts a player through a gap and his runs are usually head down into traffic instead of the old jimking drives he used to be capable of.I like D'Arcy and he's been a great servant to Ireland and Leinster over the years but I honestly believe he's unlikely to ever reach those heights again.If he finds form again then great but I ask you to name the last major game for Ireland or Leinster where he was in the top 3 performing players.I can't think of one,I wish I could but a RoG and BoD who can't tackle have both put up numerous displays in the last 2 years where they were top players for their team.D'Arcy for me only plays well when the team plays well,he is unable to rise above his teammates and influence a game anymore,the top players drag their teammates up with them.

I see your point, but reading through this whole thread someone would get the impression Darcy does nothing for a side. We are going into a 6Ns during which we won't have BOD. The centre partnership is up for change but I don't see enough from the other options out there so far to say that the best option for Ireland in the 6N is to drop Darcy also and bring in a brand new partnership. For this 6N, I would hope that the 13 jersey is given towards a player that is likely to be playing 13 in the coming years (post BOD). That to me looks like;
Connacht - Griffin
Ulster - Cave
Leinster - O'Malley
Munster - Earls
Talk elsewhere of moving Bowe, moving Fitz, and so on isn't an option for me. You need an OC in the international side who is playing that position regularly (especially for youngsters).
Out of the 13 jersey options above, I'd reckon you can try out 2 over the course 6Ns at a push. An Earls type for Wales/France/England and a Cave/Griffin for Scot/Italy.

When BOD is back, he will be recovering from injury and even older, so 12 might be his final position. But he could stay at 13 just the same. If that is the case, then if Ireland go for EOM at this stage, you blood him in very young at international level before he has the 13 jersey nailed down at provincial level. Does that backfire a bit then, when for 2-3 years he is back on the bench for big Leinster games and getting no BIG game experience. Something just feels contrary for that.

If BOD didn't get injured, the transition would seem more obvious. McF is at the stage for replacing Darcy, BOD if still fit, would have another 2-3 years left and Leinster would have EOM getting ready with Rabo experience and Ireland would have Earls getting ready with HC experience. BOD would give experience to the inside centre in waiting to get that kid up to speed (though McF is long past a kid at this stage) and then Ireland would be ready for life after both Darcy and BOD.

Why are people looking to change both straight away?

Its sad rodders as back in the day D'Arcy was on of my favourite players for Ireland.

I really hope that DK also starts to phase ROG out and give Sexton his full backing as that will bring more stability to the team.

dublin_dave wrote:he got a bite from me anyway if he was being a wind up merchant : )

I'd say you are looking to be wound up.!

FFS, BOD is admired for changing his game to suit the circumstances of the team he is playing with/his loss of pace. Most laud him for the way he has changed the way a centre plays, particularly as to how he & D'Arcy compete like flankers at the breakdown. Because he was so good at this, Ireland didn't need to use Keith Gleeson when he was available to win ball.

He scored 3 tries against France with Hendo as his partner back in 2000 and plays a completely different game now to what he did then. His defence used be shocking back then!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think Fitz has the curse of utility player on him. I remember seeing him at inside centre against the ABs in Ireland a few years ago and thought he was Ireland´s best player in the backs that day. Then he´s been mentioned at wing and at fullback and never settled down in one position. I think if he does come back and for him to play at wing. Play him there and don´t move him around and he has the pace and the skill to serve Ireland well. But don´t do a Tait or a Hook on this young talented player. Unfortunately, I think that´s already the case.

+1

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Why are people looking to change both straight away?

Because of necessity. BOD is injured and D'arcy struggled to outplay the Ulster Ravens centre pairing last week. D'arcy of old would have had a field day against two young inexperienced players but instead just looked slow, small and old.

Eirebilly it is sad to see. D'arcy was electric in his pomp but hes just a shadow of the player he was now. Without the acceleration to make those searing breaks he's just to easy to defend against and he's being exposed in defence too often now too.

Unfortunately no coach wants to put in two new players alongside one another. You either put in two new players who at least have played together at club level or you put someone in with experience in between the new player. D'Arcy may have had his international torch fade out on him but he has the advantage of experience. Unless Kidney brings in Fitz to inside centre where he hasn´t been playing he´s going to have to come up with someone who doesn´t have international experience or very little outside Sexton who will have someone new outside him too. Coaches don´t like taking those risks so I have the impression D'Arcy will stay even though I think he´s well past his expiry date.

Yes, but DK will go with ROG to start against Wales as he is a conservative sort of guy. So who do you say will be the centres with him? Sexton, D'arcy McFadden is not going to float his boat.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think Fitz has the curse of utility player on him. I remember seeing him at inside centre against the ABs in Ireland a few years ago and thought he was Ireland´s best player in the backs that day. Then he´s been mentioned at wing and at fullback and never settled down in one position. I think if he does come back and for him to play at wing. Play him there and don´t move him around and he has the pace and the skill to serve Ireland well. But don´t do a Tait or a Hook on this young talented player. Unfortunately, I think that´s already the case.

Schmidt seems to be sticking with him at 11 and the odd game at 15 but apart from the WC where we were missing something like 24 players at one stage he hasn't used him in the centre this season.He really seems to be blossoming and right now is playing better than he ever has before.I really think Schmidt is bringing the best out of him and it's fantastic to watch.

An example of how he's changed is that he no longer overruns the ball which was a maddening feature of his game for about 3 years.Another good example is in the back to back matches with Bath,in the 1st match he made a break early on from inside his own 22 and was 1 on 1 with a flanker,he didn't back himself and looked for support and we missed a great chance for a try,in the 2nd match at the start of the 2nd half in a similar situation he backed himself and scored a fantastic try.He learned from his mistake the previous week,this from a player who made the same mistake of overrunning the ball carrier for 3 years shows that he's getting good advice and being given the confidence he needs to perform.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

I see your point, but reading through this whole thread someone would get the impression Darcy does nothing for a side. We are going into a 6Ns during which we won't have BOD. The centre partnership is up for change but I don't see enough from the other options out there so far to say that the best option for Ireland in the 6N is to drop Darcy also and bring in a brand new partnership. For this 6N, I would hope that the 13 jersey is given towards a player that is likely to be playing 13 in the coming years (post BOD). That to me looks like;
Connacht - Griffin
Ulster - Cave
Leinster - O'Malley
Munster - Earls
Talk elsewhere of moving Bowe, moving Fitz, and so on isn't an option for me. You need an OC in the international side who is playing that position regularly (especially for youngsters).
Out of the 13 jersey options above, I'd reckon you can try out 2 over the course 6Ns at a push. An Earls type for Wales/France/England and a Cave/Griffin for Scot/Italy.

When BOD is back, he will be recovering from injury and even older, so 12 might be his final position. But he could stay at 13 just the same. If that is the case, then if Ireland go for EOM at this stage, you blood him in very young at international level before he has the 13 jersey nailed down at provincial level. Does that backfire a bit then, when for 2-3 years he is back on the bench for big Leinster games and getting no BIG game experience. Something just feels contrary for that.

If BOD didn't get injured, the transition would seem more obvious. McF is at the stage for replacing Darcy, BOD if still fit, would have another 2-3 years left and Leinster would have EOM getting ready with Rabo experience and Ireland would have Earls getting ready with HC experience. BOD would give experience to the inside centre in waiting to get that kid up to speed (though McF is long past a kid at this stage) and then Ireland would be ready for life after both Darcy and BOD.

Why are people looking to change both straight away?

I don't think anyone really wants to change both straight away,most of us have been calling for D'Arcy to be dropped for over a year now,unfortunately there haven't been any stand out candidates to replace him and Kidney hasn't tried to manufacture one (which in fairness he shouldn't really have to).The problem is BoD got injured so there is no other option but to change him yet we're still not happy with D'Arcy.

Glas a du wrote:Yes, but DK will go with ROG to start against Wales as he is a conservative sort of guy. So who do you say will be the centres with him? Sexton, D'arcy McFadden is not going to float his boat.

If Kidney picks ROG against Wales I'll be switching the TV off....

Kidney will pick a midfield of Sexton, D'arcy and Earls. No doubt about it.

im sure wales will be licking their lips if they see a combo of rog,darcy and earls. rog has played poorly in the previous two games v wales which we have lost so would be surprised if he started. we must try and play rugby to beat wales dominate up front and play with creativity. if we ping the corners halfpenny will boot the ball 70 yards down field all day long much like world cup game

darcy i just dont think has it at international level any more and he has been ok no more for leinster. experience is great and all but he has not had a good game in 2years in the green jersey. not good enough for all of his 60 caps

sin e, i would like and hope that the darcy, drico partnership that has served us so well over the years would not be primarily recognised for their ability to pinch ball at the breakdown and for their try scoring feats and their ability in their heyday to create line breaks from nothing. of course drico does not have the gas to roast people on the outside any more but he is still a very good footballer has great hands and can create. its just a shame the irish backline is so poorly coached and all of its components have looked lost the last 18months.

The worst of all then

eirebilly wrote:I honestly cant see why D'Arcy is still being spoken about as a starting 12. His form for Ireland has been poor for 2 years (with the exception of one or two matches) and his handling skills just dont seem to be up to it anymore.

Its a real shame as when he is on form he is something special to watch and a defoe starter but he just doesnt have it anymore.

I would also like to see DK be firm and select Sexton as 10 and only using ROG sparingly.

D'Arcy still holds onto the starting Leinster spot when fit in all the big Leinster games. That could be because Joe Schmidt does not think the rest available are good enough more than what it says about D'Arcy. If they are not good enough to start for Leinster in HCup games, they are not good enough to start for Ireland.

If Sexton doesn't earn the jersey, he shouldn't have it. Lots saying here that ROG played badly against Wales in the last two outings. Well I don't think Sexton was too hot either. In the 6Ns loss, Ireland were in the lead when ROG went off. Not blaming sexton for the Phillips try, but one thing you notice with ROG is that he isn't inclined to fall asleep and can frequently be seen cajoling his team mates to stay focussed. As for the world cup game - Sexton got 30 mins (with Reddan) and made no impression either.

dublin_dave wrote:
sin e, i would like and hope that the darcy, drico partnership that has served us so well over the years would not be primarily recognised for their ability to pinch ball at the breakdown and for their try scoring feats and their ability in their heyday to create line breaks from nothing. of course drico does not have the gas to roast people on the outside any more but he is still a very good footballer has great hands and can create. its just a shame the irish backline is so poorly coached and all of its components have looked lost the last 18months.

Dave - BOD is admired around the world for his ability at the breakdown. Just because he is exceptionally good (as a centre at that and he loves that part of the game), doesn't take from BOD.

Stop trying to find offence.

Sin é wrote:
D'Arcy still holds onto the starting Leinster spot when fit in all the big Leinster games.

Not true. Schmidt has been using 3 different combinations this season in the HEC: D'arcy and McFadden, D'arcy and O'Malley and McFadden and O'Malley. Clearly he is happy with any of the combinations.

The most impressive of these that I've seen this year has been the latter.

Sin é wrote:ROG is that he isn't inclined to fall asleep and can frequently be seen cajoling his team mates to stay focussed.

Maybe ROG should stay focussed on his own game instead of cajoling his teammates.

Maybe ROG´s teammates should concentrate on their own game, forgoing ROG´s need to cajole them, allowing him to focus on his own game.

It´s the chicken and the egg Rodders.

Well Kia then maybe ROG's teammates would be able to better concentrate on their own games if it wasn't for ROG kicking position away loosely, getting turned over in the tackle or throwing hospital passes and then relying on his teammates to do all the tackling and win back possession.....

Like I said, chicken and the egg, mate.

Who came first? Munster or Leinster? Last year it was Leinster!

Maybe that was what ROG was really cajoling them for.

I would be shocked if ROG started against Wales. He'll go down as one of Irelands most important players ever. But Sexton has been a better player for two years now. I'm almost certain Kidney will more clearly define their roles now, with Sexton starting and ROG as super sub if needed.

We have plenty of options for the centre. It'll take time to confirm our best combo though. Pity we don't have a backs coach because we need fresh ideas. Leinster are probably the best attacking team in Europe now. And they're not even relying on individual brilliance from BOD anymore. Munster, Ulster and Connacht have some very good backs too. So there's no excuse for the pathetic showings from our backs recently.

I presume Kidney couldn't find an ideal candidate to coach the backs, so decided to delay an appointment. It's a pity but probably wise in the long run. No point giving a contract to a coach he doesn't really want.

I do think D'arcy is past it. Maybe a run of the mill but effective basher like Downey could be a short term solution? Or would he be a step down even from D'arcy?

Leinster are probabky the best attacking team in Europe

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I do think Darcy is past it

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Darcy is a nailed on starter for the best attacking team in Europe

That is a headscratcher Red Stag.

Just stick with the second statement and add in the green jersey. All cleared up now.

Kia, welcome to the Irish team and squad discussion. When logic/common sense and good feelings towards other provinces are left at the the door.

I think BOD & D'Arcy are greatly admired for being like extra flankers MORE than anything else.

i was only making the point that the use of more to me is nonsense that is all sin

cannot envisage your average english fan saying oh sh1te o driscoll is playing bad news he is going to get a turnover or two. first port of call im sure they would be more worried about him getting the match winning try when Ireland really need somebody to step up and pull something out of the fire

anyway we shall craic on

i dont think schmidt is quite as settled on first choice partnership as he was last year. darcy neither punches holes nor has the acceleration to break through international defences even more. i would also argue he cannot do it at top hc level either. his experience is what schmidt values particularly in Dricos absence.

Cheers Thomond. I´m enjoying the banter.

To be honest though, the majority of the squad isn't really under discussion. Just the usual ROG / Sexton chestnuts but really a wing spot, centre pairing and who to partner POC seem the bones of contention.

That´s impressive consensus. Everyone in for a

You want to see real bickering. Wait until this year when Irish not only claim their first win but win the series. Everyone in again:

If we win in NZ people would still probably complain. Gibson would complain how Jennings isn't in there when he has been givwn chances ad failed to take them. Anyway D'Arcy should not start at all. McFadden and probably O'Malley/Cave. Griffen has been superb this season too but he is probably a bit green.

the irish international rugby teams performances since the grand slam has been the source of major head-scratching the last few years hence we tend to go round in circles here.

i honestly dont think it gets too ott here re provinces at all. of course there have been a few incidents and silly rows but by in large posters from all provinces put forward valid arguments

i would be delighted to see peter o mahony, darren cave, eoin griffin and devin toner see some game time in the green jersey to get some exposure to international rugby. we have some excellent players playing on this island and it would be great to see the Irish team fulfil their promise and play some exciting rugby in the process

I was going to post this in the "where are the centres" thread but I think it is better served here.. to start at 13 for Ireland now, and in the future, I believe there are 4 viable options. I will also list those who could play 13, but I think they are behind the other 4.

1) Cave - Probably the smartest and most creative 13 we have, I feel he is the most ready of all other options to play 13 for Ireland. He is probably the closest to BOD in terms of a rugby brain to play 13, and he is great in defence. IMO he may not have the pace at 13 for international rugby, but he certainly has the brain. Possibly the best fit to play with McFadden also. This 6 nations he should possibly start.

2) Spence - My choice for the future Irish 13, Spence is the youngest of the options, yet the most physical. He is our option to stand up against the big opposition centres, and to me he is our own version of Jaque Fourie. He is very quick, and very strong, exceptional in defence and a devastating runner. He has been used mostly this season as a battering ram at 12, which does not suit him well, and his distribution is not good enough for 12 (or 13 currently). A few times he has shown true guile and creativity on top of his physical game, but he is too inconsistent in this regard. This 6 nations I believe is too early for him, but I think he will come back and claim the shirt in the future.

3) Griffin - An outside option who I will need to see more of. The times I have seen him though I have been impressed. He seems to also be quite a physical centre like Spence, able to break the gainline and he looks rock solid in defence. He is more creative than Spence currently, and his distribution looks better. He needs to show more in attack however, and in general, as I really haven't seen enough of him to see if he can consistently continue playing to a high level, and against better opposition. If he can, he will definitely be in the running.

4) Fitzgerald - When it comes to Fitz, he really is a talented player, who has had a terrible season last year and been shifted around for too long. He seems more settled now, being played at 11, but I am still not sure he has the pace for a winger. He isn't solid enough to play 15. But he certainly fits the bill for an international 13. He is so dangerous now, just like he used to be. I think 13 may be his position, but the trouble with this experiment would be moving him around yet again. I do think 13 could be his best position however.

The other options to move to 13 would be Bowe, Trimble or Earls. I think none of these players are the future there however, and should be left on the wing (possibly full back for Earls). O'Malley I think was outplayed by Griffin and therefore he is behind the other options.

No problem with Fitzgeralds pace this season whatsoever.