My Irish Six Nations Squad

First topic message reminder :

With little over a month to go before the games get under way, Declan Kidney is in camp with some of the squad this week already reviewing the RWC and planning ahead to the six nations.

God willing he has decided on a method of attacking the opposition other than launching Ferris, SOB and Healy at the oppositions defence. There are a lot of things Ireland are good at (like defence, lineout, the breakdown) but we really need to become a modern team in regards to attack. We are still very set in our 2009 ways, with forwards being clumsy and not having the skills to play a high tempo game and the backs rarely breaking the line and not running enough dummy lines.

One would assume the squad will be named in the next 3 weeks or so, that in mind I felt I'd give the squad a bash myself and make a concious effort to do a few things:

a) do well in the competition
b) reward form
c) encourage attacking rugby
d) blood some players [be it as starting for the first time or being included in the squad for the first time}

Bold+underlined=starting player
Underlined=bench
Italic=part of 30 man squad
anything else=extended squad


Props:
Healy-Ross-Court-Buckley-McAllister-Hagan
Healy and Ross are the obvious starters and with only one prop spot on the bench makes sense to put Court there. Buckley in there to cover TH. McAllister and Hagan have been doing ok this season and are young fellas we need to expose to this level of rugby and thus I'd want them in the training squad and then being released back to their provinces when/where possible.

Hookers:
Best-Cronin-Varley-Sherry
This is the logical choice as there is quite a gap in class between each of these players save Varley-Sherry but Sherry has been injured for some time.

Locks:
O'Connell-Ryan-O'Callaghan-Toner-Cullen-Tuohy
I think that Ryan has now surpassed O'Callaghan and should be considered a starter in the Irish team. I think Cullen has played very poorly since he returned from the RWC and that Toner has played very well and thus I would reward form and keep Toner in the 30 man squad.

Backrow:
Ferris-O'Brien-Heaslip-O'Mahoney-Jennings-McLaughlin-Ronan
I would continue with our RWC starting backrow as SOB seems to have been developing into a 7 more over the past 2 months or so. I would bring in Peter O'Mahoney as he has been playing better than most around him regardless of experience he also covers the entire backrow.

Scrumhalves:
Murray-Reddan-Boss-Marshall
I'd continue with the order of our RWC 9's however I think the gap between Boss and Reddan has closed considerably. Marshall beat TOL to the extended squad as I believe Marshall has been on fire and that TOL is a good athlete but a poor scrumhalf.

Flyhalves:
Sexton-O'Gara-Madigan-Keatley
I went for Sexton over O'Gara due to Sexton's better form as of late and also due to his attacking talent. I went for Madigan over keatley as Keatley is blowing hot and cold as of late and Madigan is in unbelievable form with ball in hand.

Centres:
McFadden-Darcy-Cave-O'Malley
I went for McFadden to start ahead of Darcy for a number of reasons but mainly due to how ineffective Darcy is in attack now, he can't break the gainline, rarely makes huge barging runs, his decision making is too slow and often poor. I'd play McFadden at 12 and Bowe at 13 due to his fantastic lines of running, physicality, support play and offloading and his ability to break the line while still being defensively solid and able to distribute. Earls I feel is an out and out winger, lacks the vision and distribution to be a centre, just my opinion though.

Back 3:
Kearney-Earls-Trimble-Bowe-Fitzgerald-Carr
Bowe is in as a winger but will play 13. Kearney at 15 with earls or Fitzgerald covering in Jones' absence. Fitzgerald gets 11 as he has been in very good form since the RWC. Trimble in also as Earls is not starting on the wing currently and Trimble is also playing very well at the moment IMO. Carr to be an extended squad player if his injury isn't too bad.


There ya have it:

Healy-Best-Ross
Ryan-O'Connell
Ferris-Heaslip-O'Brien
Murray-Sexton
McFadden-Bowe
Fitzgerald-Kearney-Trimble

Court-Cronin-O'Callaghan-O'Mahony-Reddan-O'Gara-Earls

I believe that team has a bit more attacking guile and creativity than it did in the RWC (excluding BOD of course). I think if the coaches can coach this team to attack and certain players play almost 'off the ball' this could be quite a slick and skillful team.

Dummy runners are crucial.
Backs running from depth at speed are crucial.
Forwards and backs attacking as one is crucial.
Our rock solid lineout and defence are crucial as is continuing our good work at the breakdown.

We need to blood some players more also, I'd like to see Cronin, Toner, O'Mahoney, Madigan and O'Malley getting some game time even if it is just 20 minutes against Italy or Scotland.

What do others think?
Is this the right squad?
Should Ryan be ahead of O'Callaghan?
Does Toner warrant Cullen's exclusion?
Does POM have what it takes to step up?
Does Marshall's good form warrant leaving TOL out?
Who would you pick Madigan or Keatley?
Does Darcy offer anything anymore worth keeping?
Who is the right call at 13?

Feckless Rogue wrote:We probably won't win the 6 Nations. But nobody can't beat the Irish ability to endlessly talk shoite about everything and anything.

+10

The Masters. If only it was a recognised sport. We'd be the AB's of BS.

dublin_dave wrote:kia mate. we agreed earlier on 10 of starting 15. we are doing well here really well. we have even agreed on a starting out half

you would have loved some of the threads around last years 6 nations and world cup. epic threads with 700plus responses, subplots everywhere fighting making up laughing joking fighting again making up.

all a bit of craic. i rarely post on leinster board. boring being as good as we are

Behind that veneer of consensus though lies a festering pile of resentment and bitterly divided regionalism! You say there´s a consensus on Sexton but dig a little deeper and there would be those who think he runs too aimlessly with the ball, insisting on wrap arounds that are too easy to read and doesn´t kick enough or as well as ROG used to.

You rarely post on Leinster boards you say. Was that also the case in the past when things were boring in the days when Munster had the better of you?

I tink de Kia fella is gettin in on de craic.

Nah mate, we'd rather lose than play like Munster.

That's exactly what used to happen mate.

Now it´s different though I think. I´m not so sure Munster fans care how they win just so long as they can beat Leinster again.

We've beaten them so many times recently, we have long moved on to competing with Toulouse and ASM on a level basis.

But, FFS, please dont tell em that. They are bad enough as it is.

and we lost playing flashy stuff for years gibbo

who needs a pack loike lets fling it about. while that may have won fans it won f8ck all else. munster were much better than us 1-10. I took some resentment at the bottler tag though, we had a pack of mainly journeymen and a backline of real quality. packs win prizes that is blindingly obvious now but wasnt for years. i mean look at the famous win in toulouse, we had an ancient will green, bryce williams, brian blaney and cameron jowitt in the pack. was it any wonder we got well beaten by munster who had a top drawer pack

we all know rog was a super player and is still a very good one but as a starting 10 its a long time since we have beaten a top 6 side. grand slam year being the last. sexton has not done it consistently at international level yet but no doubt he will if picked consistently.

the real bone of contention is Kidney. Some of us may be two hard on him but others think he is above criticism. Since the grand slam i can count good coherent Irish performances on one hand. That to me is not good enough

bring on the welsh. here is what will happen, we will play exactly the same way v wales in world cup but win because we may want it a bit more lets say 13-12. Rog drop goal obviously. Rog will start in France we will be beaten out the gate. we will rotate out halves and be a disjointed mess rest of tournament culminating with a Paddy day defeat to a rejuvenated England. 3rd place.

Fair comments Dave. They had the pack. We had the BACKS. Now, we have the pack and the BACKS.

In truth, the best Irish team would be a Leinster one, only exceptions would be POC, Best and Ferris.

And run by a Munster man. Its like having foie-gras prepared by a McDonalds Chef.

I live in hope Kidney changes tack after the RWC. But not much.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Difficult to find a player who doesn't divide opinion in Ireland!

We all love BOD Kia.....even Sin E can acknowledge he's a half decent flanker.....

Gibson wrote:I tink de Kia fella is gettin in on de craic.

Nah mate, we'd rather lose than play like Munster.

Stepping in tractor and driving down to Amsterdam....... beware of an upset Culchie..................

ROG playing in the Wales victory?! Not sure people will let you away with that...

eirebilly wrote:

Gibson wrote:I tink de Kia fella is gettin in on de craic.

Nah mate, we'd rather lose than play like Munster.

Stepping in tractor and driving down to Amsterdam....... beware of an upset Culchie..................

Billy, Happy New Year mo chara. Without Munster... there would be no Leinster. We need each other badly.

Will that do?

Listen man, when are we going to meet up in Cocos Outback for a 6-N game? Love to have pints and banter with ye.

There's always bed here for a Munster man. MBTGOG has been over. Some craic.

Thats much better Gibbo

I will be at cocos for a few games this year mate so its defo on for a few pints. I have a few mates in the big smoke that i stay at when the rugby is on but cheers for the offer. You and yours are always welcome up to mine for a BBQ in the summer. There is more than enough room in my house for the family

Grand so Billy. We'll meet up for pints.

Just remember, I am the only Leinster fan in de village. Loads of Munster mates over here.

Thats not a prob for me Gibbo

roddersm wrote:That right Kia, when people say Kidney has developed strength in depth what they mean is that he has numerous positions were the 1st choice player has 100+ caps and the 2nd choice 2 or 3 including the churchill cup. Thats the depth that Kidney has developed.

If ROG and Sexton for example got head colds at the same time there would be a meltdown of Irish society.

Try any 2 of our starting front row and think where we'd be.In fairness we have a lot more depth than we did when Kidney started out but and he can't manufacture international quality players out of thin air but there is still an alarming lack of depth in a few positions front row,lock and centre are still pretty bare.

I would give kidney a degree of credit but I also think he has to take some blame (as does EOS) for the fact we have no real successor to BOD. We overused him in the past (and in fairness) he wanted to play every game. The fact remains we have two centres who are past their best (albeit lone of them is still excellent) and then no obvious alternative

So true Stand. And Deccie has been lucky with injuries and really bad form, in other positions, where he would have stuck with the old guard ad-nauseum. His hand was forced. Think Ross & Healy. Think De Fla, Horan & Hayes. Think a badly performing ROG, the year we won the SLAM. With NO real backup at 10 (Paddy phooking Wallace, great 12 but not a 10) O Gara was worse than useless in that 6-N. He was carried by BOD, POC and Wally - but he lives on as a hero - on one DG. Enter Sexton after that. I still believe that SLAM set us back 2 years. Worse thing that could have happened Ireland's future development. Complacency. And the old ways, clung on a wee bit longer than they should have. It cost us time.

This may sound bad, but, unless he's kopped-on, here's to a few more (minor) injuries, in key areas - to help him make his mind up and to develop it further.

Dont shoot me.

I just hope he is more proactive and actually makes the changes himself. Rather than have them made for him.

Felix Jones & Colm Murray's very late inclusion in the RWC squad - shows he is learning. He left it really late, but he learned.

Believe.

Gibbo - you really are clueless.

Example 1: Felix Jones was the Ireland A fullback in the Churchill Cup even though he had only played one Magners game for Leinster - Since then he has had two (now 3 serious injuries).
Example 2: Sexton was playing AIL for St. Mary's when Kidney picked him to play for Ireland A (ahead of both Keatley & Humphreys). Sexton has acknowledged that Kidney saved his Leinster & Ireland career.
Example 3: Fergus McFadden (who couldn't get to start a game for Leinster, ended up being the player of the tournament in the Churchill Cup with Kidney & Co as coach).

Gibbo is certainly not clueless sin. He doesn't always mean what he says. But he damn sure means to say it. Kidney has definitely been a step in the right direction after EOS as regards depth but I think his real challenge will be now. After the GS he was clearly building to the RWC. With that gone it is time now to bring through then next generation and he has been given a kind of 'get out clause' in that BOD is injured. If we see D'arcy\Earls and it doesnt work then he needs to be as ruthless as he was with Fitzgerald last year

Stand - the issue with having to play BOD was because effectively he was the last senior player left standing - with POC in particular being out injured for quite a while, it was going to be difficult to blood a replacement for BOD, the backs defensive lynchpin particularly when blooding a new outhalf. Heck, even D'Arcy wasn't at his best. Kidney has been methodical about his replacements. I doubt if Cullen would have got anywhere near the setup except for his captaincy credentials - that is how poorly served we are with leaders. (When BOD first became captain, there were a load of players there to help him along like Easterby, Foley & Galwey).

Sin é wrote:Gibbo - you really are clueless.

Example 1: Felix Jones was the Ireland A fullback in the Churchill Cup even though he had only played one Magners game for Leinster - Since then he has had two (now 3 serious injuries).
Example 2: Sexton was playing AIL for St. Mary's when Kidney picked him to play for Ireland A (ahead of both Keatley & Humphreys). Sexton has acknowledged that Kidney saved his Leinster & Ireland career.
Example 3: Fergus McFadden (who couldn't get to start a game for Leinster, ended up being the player of the tournament in the Churchill Cup with Kidney & Co as coach).

Felix Jones is Leinster Way reared.
Sexton is Leinster Way reared.
Mcfadden is Leinster Way reared.
Heaslip is Leinster way reared.
SOB is Leinster Way reared.
Kearney is Leinster Way reared.
Healy is Leinster Way reared.
Fitzgerald is Leinster Way reared.
As were BOD & Dorce.
Munster rejects, Ross & Reddan are Leinster Way rehabilitated.
Ulstermon Boss - has found a new lease of life and warranted a call up for the RWC. Wots goin on here? I see a pattern developing.

They are not where they are because of Kidney. They are there, on pure merit - as a result of something that has since overrun an ever-reluctant and backward-thinking Kidney. The Leinster Academy for the young ones. And the Leinster Support team, for the ones who come to us to better themselves.

The No.1 province pushed his hand. He had no choice. I saw this coming 2/3 years ago. Ask people/posters who know.

Gibbo, you were moaning about Felix Jones' late inclusion in the world cup squad - i'm just explaining that he has been injured for the best part of two seasons and probably would not have been up to playing internationally up to that

As for Sexton - the Leinster brainstrust didn't have much faith in him - sent him back to play AIL for Marys until Kidney saved him.

Sin

The Bod thing isn't just a dig at kidney. We let ourselves rely on him far to much and flogged him essentially. The upshot has been that despite his declining form we barely tried anyone else. Earls only got the 6N against Wales two years ago because of injury. Again we aren't going to find a new leader until we entrust someone with the responsibility without POC or BOD to hold their hand

Big love Sin.

I tried. I really did.

P.S. I miss De Bull already. One person I will not argue over. He carried us for 10 years on his back. He's on me wall for that reason.

Sin é wrote:Gibbo, you were moaning about Felix Jones' late inclusion in the world cup squad - i'm just explaining that he has been injured for the best part of two seasons and probably would not have been up to playing internationally up to that

As for Sexton - the Leinster brainstrust didn't have much faith in him - sent him back to play AIL for Marys until Kidney saved him.

OK, you have me there. Cheika near killed Sexton's Leinster career and Kidney did help to save it internationally. Albeit at A level.
I was, at that time, long boring everyone around me (including disbelieving Leinster fans) that this was Leinster's and Ireland's future 10. He was the One.

A Lion in the making.

But, it took Felipe to get injured, to unleash him v Munster in the 2009 HC SF. Man, did he take that chance.
Sexton helped finish off a massively-fancied Munster (and ROG) - as an HC powerhouse. It ended that day. I was there.

He helped cause a sea-change in Irish provincial rugby dominance.

That game made him. Not an Irish A trip in de US of A. The resultant 2009 Final and so many big games in between it and the 2011 HC Final. The Sexton Final.
That day, he proved beyond any doubt, that he was the best Standoff in the Northern Hemisphere.

Mcfadden, he also makes his own way. Needs to shove Darcy sideways to the bench for province & country. He will. It's the Leinster Way.

As for Felix Jones... I dont like the fact ye have him. Neither did Cheika at the time. Argued with the IRFU on it.
Can you see the provincial future, under the new IRFU Directive here Sin? And that's only amongst our own.

That man has everything it takes, midst all the slings & arrows of misfortune, adversity and bad injuries, slung against him, to make it to the very top. Love im. He is a born pro. Rate him highly.
Kearney will have to up it, to keep him at bay. Felix has the latent talent to become a better and more natural counter-attacking FB. Just needs a decent run to prove it.
He may never match Kearney internationally, but, whatever happens - he will serve Munster well.

Signed.
Clueless in Hamsterjam.

Serve as in waiter or rent boy?

I see Paulie has signed up for Munster and Ireland till the summer of 2014.

Posted a thread on it yesterday Geoff but people were to busy slagging of Kidney or the Rabo to notice...

As an old St Marys man myself Gibbo, you wernt alone in in recognising Sexton as a future player. I have been watching him since he was a 15 year old in 2000. An old school buddy called me when i was in Dublin to tell me to have a look at this wee boy and what i saw was impressive, even then.

His uncle is a former Munster player so he has ties to Munster (how desperate is that ).

I honestly believe that he should be given the starting position, no matter how good ROG has been playing since having Sexton threaten his spot (even some of you cant deny that ROG upped his game alot) and i do see him as being a future Ireland captain. What people dont see is that he is very passionate and is a great motivator on and off the pitch.

I really am getting a little tired of all this Lienster v Munster bikkering, save that for when we play eachother, when it comes down to the national side we should just look for the best player for the best position and not which province they hail from or represent. All provinces play different styles of rugby and all have something to bring to the national team

eirebilly wrote:I honestly believe that he should be given the starting position, no matter how good ROG has been playing since having Sexton threaten his spot (even some of you cant deny that ROG upped his game alot)

I don't believe ROG has been playing well at all. The old game management and control is long gone from his game. His descision making has become increasingly eratic under pressure and far too often he tries to force the play off first and second phase and puts his team under pressure.

His goal kicking is still top, top class but that is the only aspect of his game that is up to scratch now at the top level. Even his kicking from hand is not what it once was and the way the rules have changed to favour teams which keep the ball in had has made ROG far less effective.

Behind a dominant pack he is still a good general and if I wanted a player to go for a crucial drop goal or place kick it would still be ROG but over 80 min against top sides he is simply a liability these days and I expect him to be exposed again in 6N. He simply doesn't have the game to play the style of rugby we need to play in attack or defence.

I disagree rodders, i think that ROG was playing so much better since Sexton started to pressure his 'walk on' spot in the Irish team. During the RWC, he ignited more backline attacks than Sexton did and for the most, looked the better 10. Thats just my view of course.

Sexton's time has come and he should be given the full responsibility of the 10 and know that DK will back him even if he has an off game. I never believe in chopping and changing teams too much and especially at fly half. Sexton needs to know that even if he has a bad game that he wont be benched the next, that will take some pressure off him and possible not force him to push the envelope as he now does on occasions.

I don't know Billy. ROG has had some eyecatching cameos for Ireland and has shown nerves of steel kicking those drop goals for Munster....don't think I don't know what ROG can bring to the table.

However for Munster and Ireland over the past 2 seasons he has forced the play far too much, it is a massive reason why both have been so predictable in attack.

I genuinely believe his place kicking and reputation is overshadowing how poorly he is playing. He stands very deep and goes wide with almost every ball. Wales had analysed him to a tee and had him in their pockets.

He has become increasingly predictable and has very little variety in his game now. Like Dan Parks for Scotland in recent season, his match winning kicks are disguising the fact that he is sucking the creativity out of the side.

At the same time rodders, Sexton was constantly trying that run around move that was being read easily by teams and he was getting found out.

Both players have had their bad moments but both have had their very good moments. It was just that i thought that ROG had picked up his game since the pressure came from Sexton and was the better of the two in the RWC.

That said, i still believe that its time for a changing of guard and Sexton should be given all the faith he deserves by DK. I have seen this before, most recently when ROG came onto the scene and started pressuring DH for the 10 jersey. Eventually a manager has to make the decision to pick the new guy to build a team around and Sexton is the man for the future.

For the record, when ROG came onto the scene and took over from DH, i still thought that DH was the better player.

eirebilly wrote:For the record, when ROG came onto the scene and took over from DH, i still thought that DH was the better player.

I think DH was a better attacking player and perhaps better suited to a backline that had the likes of O'Driscoll, Murphy, Hickie etc.

However he had let Ireland down a few times under pressure with his place kicks and had perhaps gone as far as he could go.

I felt at the time (2002ish) that EOS should stick with ROG as his main man, given his talent and age, and let him grow into the role, which he did eventially. In my oppinion ROG had 50 odd caps and was in his late 20's before he really started to shine.

I feel the exact same with Sexton now. Kidney should make him the main man for Ireland, should have done 2 seasons ago, and that will bring the best out of him at International level. Kidney insistance on rotating ROG in and keeping ROG at the heart of the squad as a senior member is a big mistake and until that ends we won't see consistant dominant displays from Sexton.

Gibson wrote:Mcfadden, he also makes his own way. Needs to shove Darcy sideways to the bench for province & country. He will. It's the Leinster Way.

Im not fully sure it is the Leinster Way. I'm not sure I've really seen a Leinster player ever shove a 50+ cap international onto the bench. Sexton as you say only won his place due to the Contepomi injury and departure.

In Munster we've seen both this year and last year, Donnacha O'Callaghan relegated to the bench in the Heineken Cup for Donncha Ryan. We've seen uncapped Peter O'Mahony get picked over Denis Leamy and his 57 caps time and again. We've seen Tomas O'Leary oust Peter Stringers firm hold on the #9 shirt and quickly suffer the same thing at the hands of Conor Murray. Despite all he had done for Munster, Anthony Foley didn't even get picked in the 22 for the 2008 HEC Final. He lost out to a young Donnacha Ryan who was covering the backrow. Denis Hurley did the same that year bursting into the fullback position and taking Shaun Paynes place off him.

We've seen Munster take on teams in Europe this year minus Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes, Donncha O'Callaghan, Mick O'Driscoll, Denis Leamy, David Wallace, Peter Stringer, Tomas O'Leary etc and win. That used to be unthinkable. Only Flannery and Wallace would have been injured. The rest were simply usurpred by younger hungrier players.

By contrast Shane Horgan, Gordon Darcy, Brian O'Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross, Leo Cullen, Shane Jennings have yet to really be challenged by McFadden, O'Malley, Hagan, Dom Ryan etc when push comes to shove.

Thats my whole point rodders. ROG is still playing to a good level but faith should be shown in Sexton. As i said earlier, Sexton is probably more prone to push the envelope a little because if he doesnt he will be benched and ROG brought on or even worse, he will be benched for the next game.

Stability is the key right now and with stability comes faith in players so Sexton has to be given that chance with the full backing of DK.

red_stag wrote:
We've seen Munster take on teams in Europe this year minus Marcus Horan, Jerry Flannery, John Hayes, Donncha O'Callaghan, Mick O'Driscoll, Denis Leamy, David Wallace, Peter Stringer, Tomas O'Leary etc and win. That used to be unthinkable. Only Flannery and Wallace would have been injured. The rest were simply usurpred by younger hungrier players.

By contrast Shane Horgan, Gordon Darcy, Brian O'Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Mike Ross, Leo Cullen, Shane Jennings have yet to really be challenged by McFadden, O'Malley, Hagan, Dom Ryan etc when push comes to shove.

Thats not really a fair comparison stag, Leinster have been playing very well and winning and perhaps D'arcy apart all of the older guys you've mentioned have been playing extremely well, or at least better than the younger players.

In Munsters case the opposite has been the case where David Wallace, POC and ROG apart the senior players are either out of form or past their prime and their younger counterparts are playing better.

roddersm wrote:Thats not really a fair comparison stag, Leinster have been playing very well and winning

Excuse me, who is the only team in the entire Heinken Cup to have won every single match? I'll give you a clue, its an Irish team, multiple Heineken Cup champion but it sure ain't Leinster

My point in all seriousness Rodders is I hear all the Leinster fans big up the likes of McFadden, Dom Ryan, O'Malley, Cronin etc and many are calling for them to start the matches. Yet they aren't. Regardless of the reasons for it, it isn't the "Leinster way" as was claimed earlier for the young players to force the older ones onto the bench.

eirebilly wrote:Thats my whole point rodders. ROG is still playing to a good level but faith should be shown in Sexton. As i said earlier, Sexton is probably more prone to push the envelope a little because if he doesnt he will be benched and ROG brought on or even worse, he will be benched for the next game.

Stability is the key right now and with stability comes faith in players so Sexton has to be given that chance with the full backing of DK.

Fair enough Billy. I don't want to turn this into a ROG v Sexton thing because it will get hijacked by those with their own agenda. I just feel ROG's good form has been exaggerated a bit just like Sextons supposed poor performances.

I do rate and respect ROG but feel that Sexton, even on a bad day brings more to the table these days and it is immensely frustrating to see possibly the best player in the country shackled so much in the National side. Sexton is accountable for his own performances of course but i do feel that the set up, tactics and selection have not been put in place for Ireland to get the best out of him.

I am certainly not making this a ROG - Sexton thing rodders, i am simply trying to say what i think is the best for Ireland and that is that Sexton should now be made the main man.

Stag, the players you have mentioned at Leinster do need to force their way into their provinsial side but there is a very good reason for Leinster fans to be bigging them up as they are very very good.

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:Thats not really a fair comparison stag, Leinster have been playing very well and winning

Excuse me, who is the only team in the entire Heinken Cup to have won every single match? I'll give you a clue, its an Irish team, multiple Heineken Cup champion but it sure ain't Leinster

OK you got me! Munster... Munster!!

eirebilly wrote:I am certainly not making this a ROG - Sexton thing rodders

No Billy I know...it was me who did that! Now I'm trying to knock it on the head before I get triple teamed by Sin, DOD and BlueMuff....

Billy,

They are excellent players. I'm not saying Munster are better than Leinster or anything or opening a can of worms.

Literally just refuting a claim that was made that it is a Leinster way for young players to step up and relegate an experienced international player to the bench. I can't remember it happening; if it did it is the exception to the rule.

By contrast in Munster we have seen our older cup winning players transition to the bench and it has been done also in the rcent past.

Thats the only contrast I'm making.

Fair enough stag and i do see your point but that said, Munster have a more ruthless streak in them than Leinster but is that always such a good thing?

Run rodders, i can see Sin's keyboard suffering damage right now

Its only a recent thing. For a long time we were overly sentimental with our players and there was a generation gap. We have some very decorated and talented older players, and a handful of some really promising youth - Conor Murray, Felix Jones, Simon Zebo, Keith Earls, Danny Barnes, Peter O'Mahony etc - however the guys in the middle never really developed properly. We lost a lot of our better guys that age to other teams like Mike Ross, Sean Cronin, Eoin Reddan, James Downey - they were all neglected due to our crop of good players.

We've learnt from that.

On another note, I read a couple of things about Neil Best recently...apparantly he left a drunken message on Kidney's answer phone a while back which is why he's been out in the cold for Ireland since the churchill cup in 2009.

He also allegedly made a few enemies at that tournament when he insisted on lifting the cup because he was the most 'senior international player', despite only captaining in the final and not the tournament.

Not sure if any of this is true but if so, it suggests he's the total muppet Geoff and a few others suggested he was. What a waste of talent !

fair point red stag re dom ryan etc. we have a massive squad and have been relatively injury free for a few years now so it is very difficult for the likes of dom ryan, andrew conway, david kearney, madigan to become regulars. Our youth set up is terrific but the thing is in many cases its not old lads they are trying to replace but fellas in their mid 20's who have not even hit their peak. the primary jerseys that need to be filled in the coming years are horgan, cullen, darcy and drico. horgan and darcy no bother, cullen and drico not so much

i honestly think Irish rugby would benefit from a season long loan system or else making better use of connaught.

when does mr kidney name his squad i wonder? its going to be an interesting few months

dublin_dave wrote:
i honestly think Irish rugby would benefit from a season long loan system or else making better use of connaught.

I made the same suggestion two years ago that teams like Leinster and Munster could use Ulster and Connaught as teams where they can send talent to to build their experience. I was shot down but i still see it as a great idea.

In terms of Scrum Half:

Murray and Reddan are certainties and surely Boss will be the 3rd SH?

Has anyone been watching Stringer at Saracens? Is he in the frame?

Will Paul Marshall get a run out for the Saxons? Will TOL get in despite his lack of form and gametime?

The tighthead situation is a bit dire, does anyone know how has Buckley being going at Sale?