My Irish Six Nations Squad

First topic message reminder :

With little over a month to go before the games get under way, Declan Kidney is in camp with some of the squad this week already reviewing the RWC and planning ahead to the six nations.

God willing he has decided on a method of attacking the opposition other than launching Ferris, SOB and Healy at the oppositions defence. There are a lot of things Ireland are good at (like defence, lineout, the breakdown) but we really need to become a modern team in regards to attack. We are still very set in our 2009 ways, with forwards being clumsy and not having the skills to play a high tempo game and the backs rarely breaking the line and not running enough dummy lines.

One would assume the squad will be named in the next 3 weeks or so, that in mind I felt I'd give the squad a bash myself and make a concious effort to do a few things:

a) do well in the competition
b) reward form
c) encourage attacking rugby
d) blood some players [be it as starting for the first time or being included in the squad for the first time}

Bold+underlined=starting player
Underlined=bench
Italic=part of 30 man squad
anything else=extended squad


Props:
Healy-Ross-Court-Buckley-McAllister-Hagan
Healy and Ross are the obvious starters and with only one prop spot on the bench makes sense to put Court there. Buckley in there to cover TH. McAllister and Hagan have been doing ok this season and are young fellas we need to expose to this level of rugby and thus I'd want them in the training squad and then being released back to their provinces when/where possible.

Hookers:
Best-Cronin-Varley-Sherry
This is the logical choice as there is quite a gap in class between each of these players save Varley-Sherry but Sherry has been injured for some time.

Locks:
O'Connell-Ryan-O'Callaghan-Toner-Cullen-Tuohy
I think that Ryan has now surpassed O'Callaghan and should be considered a starter in the Irish team. I think Cullen has played very poorly since he returned from the RWC and that Toner has played very well and thus I would reward form and keep Toner in the 30 man squad.

Backrow:
Ferris-O'Brien-Heaslip-O'Mahoney-Jennings-McLaughlin-Ronan
I would continue with our RWC starting backrow as SOB seems to have been developing into a 7 more over the past 2 months or so. I would bring in Peter O'Mahoney as he has been playing better than most around him regardless of experience he also covers the entire backrow.

Scrumhalves:
Murray-Reddan-Boss-Marshall
I'd continue with the order of our RWC 9's however I think the gap between Boss and Reddan has closed considerably. Marshall beat TOL to the extended squad as I believe Marshall has been on fire and that TOL is a good athlete but a poor scrumhalf.

Flyhalves:
Sexton-O'Gara-Madigan-Keatley
I went for Sexton over O'Gara due to Sexton's better form as of late and also due to his attacking talent. I went for Madigan over keatley as Keatley is blowing hot and cold as of late and Madigan is in unbelievable form with ball in hand.

Centres:
McFadden-Darcy-Cave-O'Malley
I went for McFadden to start ahead of Darcy for a number of reasons but mainly due to how ineffective Darcy is in attack now, he can't break the gainline, rarely makes huge barging runs, his decision making is too slow and often poor. I'd play McFadden at 12 and Bowe at 13 due to his fantastic lines of running, physicality, support play and offloading and his ability to break the line while still being defensively solid and able to distribute. Earls I feel is an out and out winger, lacks the vision and distribution to be a centre, just my opinion though.

Back 3:
Kearney-Earls-Trimble-Bowe-Fitzgerald-Carr
Bowe is in as a winger but will play 13. Kearney at 15 with earls or Fitzgerald covering in Jones' absence. Fitzgerald gets 11 as he has been in very good form since the RWC. Trimble in also as Earls is not starting on the wing currently and Trimble is also playing very well at the moment IMO. Carr to be an extended squad player if his injury isn't too bad.


There ya have it:

Healy-Best-Ross
Ryan-O'Connell
Ferris-Heaslip-O'Brien
Murray-Sexton
McFadden-Bowe
Fitzgerald-Kearney-Trimble

Court-Cronin-O'Callaghan-O'Mahony-Reddan-O'Gara-Earls

I believe that team has a bit more attacking guile and creativity than it did in the RWC (excluding BOD of course). I think if the coaches can coach this team to attack and certain players play almost 'off the ball' this could be quite a slick and skillful team.

Dummy runners are crucial.
Backs running from depth at speed are crucial.
Forwards and backs attacking as one is crucial.
Our rock solid lineout and defence are crucial as is continuing our good work at the breakdown.

We need to blood some players more also, I'd like to see Cronin, Toner, O'Mahoney, Madigan and O'Malley getting some game time even if it is just 20 minutes against Italy or Scotland.

What do others think?
Is this the right squad?
Should Ryan be ahead of O'Callaghan?
Does Toner warrant Cullen's exclusion?
Does POM have what it takes to step up?
Does Marshall's good form warrant leaving TOL out?
Who would you pick Madigan or Keatley?
Does Darcy offer anything anymore worth keeping?
Who is the right call at 13?

Kidney will start with the same backrow that played wales and rightly so, no one has put up their hand for selection apart from POM who I would think will be on the bench and should hopefully overtake Heislip by the end of the 6 Nations.

If Jennings cant play at international level then how the hell can Ronan??

Front row the same. McAllister is the only player threatening on the prop front but hasnt played enough and only covers one side.

POC/Ryan to start; Tuohy to bench

RWC backrow is a no brainer. if POM gets back in time and shows his form i would be delighted to see him in the squads. other than that i would give it to Chris Henry. I havent always been a big fan but he has been Ulsters best player all season (albeit i dont think anyone was great pre November)

i still think we havent seen Reddan/Sexton enough but i wouldnt have much issue with Murray

Centres is a nightmare to judge. D'arcy/Earls is nailed on but i would like to see something a bit more daring. Hard to call.

Fitz has to start and at present i would have trimble and 14 over Bowe with Kearney at 15.

Im not sure where Earls fits in but he will be in there somewhere.

Is Tuohy really playing that well though at the moment? I think O'Callaghan is probably better and Toner is between the pair of them.

Tuohy has been very good. Having Muller with him always helps but he is carrying very well and is actually excellent in the line out at present (albeit muller is calling)

I have heard Toner is playing well but he hasn't been as consistent as Tuohy IMO and I think both of these guys should be above DOC who I haven't been impressed with at all.

Touhy is playing very well and is the most physical and dynamic lock we have available.

Devin Toner has been a revelation this season and again offers something different with his height and size.

On form both of these guys should be in the running to partner O'Connell.

Donnacha Ryan has slipped backwards since the RWC imo and DOC has arguably been playing better than him. It looks like Kidney won't be looking beyond these two for the 6N.

At least we have a bit of depth at 2nd row now and some real competition for places.

I would say the exact opposite regarding Ryan and DOC rodders. I think there is a gulf between them now and that gulf isnt complimentary to DOC.

I think we all know what kidneys first 3 locks will be, its only really the fourth spot that's up grabs and its between Tuohy, Toner and Cullen. For me Toner has been the best lock in the country behind O'Connell this season however i think what Tuohy brings to the table is in an area that Ireland are lacking.

I would like to see him paired with O'Connell for maybe 20 minutes against Italy and toner to see some game time against Scotland as their line-out is one of their best weapons.

Oh and Happy New Years!

Golden I agree. The best locks in order have been O'Connell, Toner and Touhy/Ryan/DOC/Cullen.

I'm not sure on that one Stand, I thought Ryan has been quiet since the RWC and DOC has made an impact any time he has come on. I haven't seen all Munsters games though.

Either way I'd have Toner ahead of both on current form and theres not much between the other 4 but I'd plump for Touhy because of his dynamism, power and relative youth..not because he's an Ulster man of course...

happy new year lads.good debate. i just have a hunch that bowe could be a good centre if he spends some time there. he would add some size aswell. he does not have burning pace but is an elegant and smart player and has decent hands. id be happy with petes team


ronan has had a decent season but start over heaslip not at all. heaslip has at last got the finger out. still slightly concerned about back row balance but jennings and ronan aint the answer to break up the heaslip ferris sob com

sin do you honestly think tol is irelands best scrum half? im stumped if so. best scrum halves for me are murray, just behind him reddan,stringer,boss,marshall.

if deccie had real guts he could make a case for telling leo,donners,jennings,leamy even rog thanks for the memories ive got some great young lads who will be around for next world cup.

im expecting rubbish back play from a backline coached by a defense coach. will be pleasantly surprised if the output is good.im amazed for all of this talk of minimal changes for 6 nations due to its huge importance that we are going in without a recognised backs coach

for all the irfu initiatives it seems baffling they havent got a backs coach in for 6 nations. gaffney was poor enough but to have bloody none now is scandalous.

With the amount of experience in our team and the amount of different coaches that the players have worked with surely some of the older players in the squad could go through the plays for the 6 nations. or even get O'Driscoll in as some sort of consultant backs coach. Hes one of the most experienced backs still playing rugby (injury aside) so surely he could run through the plays on a temporary basis until a permanent coach is found?

possibly would work. its just worrying given our backs have been so poor as a unit for so long. surely after wc exit was ideal time to appoint a replacement. kidney knew gaffney was leaving and it was clear that our backs needed some direction.

it does not bode well for our style of play in 6 nations.

I personally don't think a new backs coach will make any difference. The problem is that the entire team aren't clicking in attack and there is no game plan whatsoever.

When the head coach can't decide who the best half backs are then that shows he doesn't have a clue as to how the team should play. Sexton and ROG and Murray, Reddan and O'Leary are all radically different players so the fact that Kidney can't decide who the best fit is at 9 and 10 speaks volumes about his lack of vision and tactical nous.

I think there will be some more great one off victories under Kidney but I doubt we'll ever see the consistancy we all want and expect.

i fear the same mate. huge year for mr kidney this

Thats a good point rodders,

So would you like to see kidney replaced? The performances over the last two years really have been appalling but theres something about kidney that makes me keep thinking hell learn and suddenly well be playing the way were capable of. Most likely wishful thinking on my part but for some reason I still have faith in him.

If were still failing to impress after the summer tour and theres a certain Graham henry still looking for a job I wouldn't be too disappointed to see him go.

what is kidneys win/loss ratio? i know its quite poor the last yeat or so. to be convinced he is the right man to move us forward id expect a 2nd place finish in 6 nations playing some excitong rugby and a productive end of year tour to new zealand with good performances in the tests.

Hmm I don't want to make this into a Kidney bashing thread but yes I think any changes to the Irish coaching system need to start at the very top.

Kidney has overseen some of the greatest days in Irish rugby history so credit where it is due, he is clearly a great motivator and does many things right but there has been far too much dirge, poor performances, bizarre and inconstistant selection descisions, naive and inconsistant tactics etc. over the past 2 years and when you look at the quality of the players available its hard not to have doubts about the coaching.

I think Ireland would benefit massively from having a SH coach or failing that someone like Connor O'Shea. It will never happen though.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I don't think that is what happened, and I don't think Warburton was that effective in the first half. SOB/Ferris were used as battering rams that game, which was so easy for Wales to defend against. They had two centres who are around 17 stone and over 6 foot, and a big backrow. Of course that wasn't going to work. In the second half, SOB/Ferris I think were probably tired out, they were our only game plan, and it didn't work.

Jennings may have come on eventually, but before that SOB was fantastic. I don't think those turnover stats shot up as soon as Jennings played. In fact, he probably had more chances to make those 5 turnovers at 7, as he could reach the breakdown faster.

The Welsh backrow sat back and just defended - they tackled low on the irish backrow because they were not afraid of losing possession as they knew they could win it back. They got especially lucky in that, despite the Welsh not tackling high/double tackle to prevent he offload, none of the Irish backrow were able to offload and only managed 12 passes between them in the whole game.

SOB conceeded 5 turnovers to Bath in their first game in the HC. (Leinster conceeded 15 in total).

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I don't understand sin how you think losing that game was down to our backrow to me it shows a huge lack of understating re: offensive rugby.

The backrow were by far and away our best unit in that game vs Wales and waurburton didn't steal much ball off them. How many times were they turned over and how many of those times were due to a lack of momentum coming from the rest of the team or the defence recognising the single orientation if te attack and exerting more pressure on our backrow.

I think you need to rewatch this game and see just how poor our 10 and 12 were.

Wales defence was magnificent (Lydiae made 24 tackles). They went in low - they just wanted to fell their man. They were not worried about the Irish backrow offloading because they knew that Warburton would win the ball back again on the ground.

Ireland were terrified of losing possession (i.e., kicks over heads - keeps them honest - BOD/Earls usually do something like that to break down a defence), because they knew they could not win it back on the ground. It didn't help that BOD wasn't at his best and couldn't be the extra flanker he usually is.

dublin_dave wrote:happy new year lads.good debate. i just have a hunch that bowe could be a good centre if he spends some time there. he would add some size aswell. he does not have burning pace but is an elegant and smart player and has decent hands. id be happy with petes team


ronan has had a decent season but start over heaslip not at all. heaslip has at last got the finger out. still slightly concerned about back row balance but jennings and ronan aint the answer to break up the heaslip ferris sob com

sin do you honestly think tol is irelands best scrum half? im stumped if so. best scrum halves for me are murray, just behind him reddan,stringer,boss,marshall.

if deccie had real guts he could make a case for telling leo,donners,jennings,leamy even rog thanks for the memories ive got some great young lads who will be around for next world cup.

im expecting rubbish back play from a backline coached by a defense coach. will be pleasantly surprised if the output is good.im amazed for all of this talk of minimal changes for 6 nations due to its huge importance that we are going in without a recognised backs coach

Using Ronan against Wales* is tactical (instead of SOB at 7). SOB's form hasn't been great this season (compared to last) so it would be much of a muchness between SOB & Heaslip on the bench.

No, I don't think TOL is Ireland's best scrumhalf. If you read my post you will notice I had him on the bench instead of Reddan because Mike Phillips will make mince meat of Reddan.

Why would Deccie want to tell all those players to get lost? All he has to do is not select them

As for Kiss being the Attack Coach - you can't be a good defence coach without knowing a whole lot of attack! Kiss will know every attacking play ever made by a team! He also has something to prove and there will be an element of the unknown from him.

Feckless Rogue wrote:The back row of Ferris, Heaslip, O'Brien was fine at the World Cup. They weren't dominated by the Welsh back rowers at all. We had enough territory and possession to beat Wales. It was the rubbish game plan that cost us.

Agree, up to a very salent point. All the Semi-Finalists had out-and-out 7's.

What a coincidence. I rest my long argued case.

dublin_dave wrote:happy new year lads.good debate. i just have a hunch that bowe could be a good centre if he spends some time there. he would add some size aswell. he does not have burning pace but is an elegant and smart player and has decent hands. id be happy with petes team


ronan has had a decent season but start over heaslip not at all. heaslip has at last got the finger out. still slightly concerned about back row balance but jennings and ronan aint the answer to break up the heaslip ferris sob com

sin do you honestly think tol is irelands best scrum half? im stumped if so. best scrum halves for me are murray, just behind him reddan,stringer,boss,marshall.

if deccie had real guts he could make a case for telling leo,donners,jennings,leamy even rog thanks for the memories ive got some great young lads who will be around for next world cup.

im expecting rubbish back play from a backline coached by a defense coach. will be pleasantly surprised if the output is good.im amazed for all of this talk of minimal changes for 6 nations due to its huge importance that we are going in without a recognised backs coach

Dave,
Some sharp comments there bud. And, if I were Leo or Jenno, Id say phhookoff, to yet another inadequate Munster International coach. And concentrate on winning another HC.

Cant wait till Elmer Fudge leaves. Then, and only then - will this team shake off its self-restrictive shackels. Attacking-rugby is completly & utterly alien to him. Its obvious. And now, he choses to use a forwards coach as a utility backs coach? Wearesophooked.com.

We can all talk about positions and players, till we're blue in the face. But, Kidney will always limit this team.

Harsh. But true.

Gibson wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:The back row of Ferris, Heaslip, O'Brien was fine at the World Cup. They weren't dominated by the Welsh back rowers at all. We had enough territory and possession to beat Wales. It was the rubbish game plan that cost us.

Agree, up to a very salent point. All the Semi-Finalists had out-and-out 7's.

What a coincidence. I rest my long argued case.

France didn't, they had Dusuatoir, who dominated the NZ backrow in the final. Also, you could say Warburton is a more balanced player than your typical "out and out 7", similar to O'Brien IMO, in that he makes the big tackles, makes the turnovers and is a great ball carrier. In fact either last year or the year before I remember some pundits actually referring to him as a "6.5". His work at the breakdown improved as his career progressed. With regards to SOB I believe the same is happening, he is starting to make more turnovers and become smarter at the breakdown. I also think his best game is as a support player, where he can take the ball at pace and wreck havoc on defences, as opposed to making the hard yards (something our tight forwards and Ferris can do). Infact with SOB's attributes I believe 6 to be his worst position, with 7 or 8 being his best.

Erm, Rory, for the 1st time in my life, we had the easiest path to a semi-final. Ever.

And possible Final.

We blew it.

Kidney, entrusting in that backrow and its natural imbalance - cost us. Jenno, is a far superior 7 than SOB. And Wallace. Check the last 2 HC Finals. Schmidt worked it out - just in time. Cheika knew it. EOS and Kidney? See the parallel?

Gatland, or a child, who never saw a rugby game, could work out how to beat de Micks that day.

Kidney kept faith with the same team - and strategy, that beat Oz. It went to his small head. Great coaches dont get caught out like that. Gatland(dont rate him at all) - shafted him and had his backrow low-tackle ours. Leveled em and stopped our only attacking platform. Our one and only plan. Phhoked. The Welsh, saw the tactical lapse, used it to the max, seized the day and the enormity of the occasion - and won. Plus. We had no Plan B. Game over.

I'll never forgive Elmer for that stupidity, naivety and/or ignorance. Ever.

Ive waited for far too long, to see the same ol amateur mistakes - being repeated.

Gibson wrote:Erm, Rory, for the 1st time in my life, we had the easiest path to a semi-final. Ever.

And possible Final.

We blew it.

Kidney, entrusting in that backrow and its natural imbalance - cost us. Jenno, is a far superior 7 than SOB. And Wallace. Check the last 2 HC Finals. Schmidt worked it out - just in time. Cheika knew it. EOS and Kidney? See the parallel?

Gatland, or a child, who never saw a rugby game, could work out how to beat de Micks that day.

Kidney kept faith with the same team - and strategy, that beat Oz. It went to his small head. Great coaches dont get caught out like that. Gatland(dont rate him at all) - shafted him and had his backrow low-tackle ours. Leveled em and stopped our only attacking platform. Our one and only plan. Phhoked. The Welsh, saw the tactical lapse, used it to the max, seized the day and the enormity of the occasion - and won. Plus. We had no Plan B. Game over.

I'll never forgive Elmer for that stupidity, naivety and/or ignorance. Ever.

Ive waited for far too long, to see the same ol amateur mistakes - being repeated.

And Wallace what Gibbo?

Why does Schmidt keep playing SOB ahead of Jennings in the big games? Its not as if Kevin McL is a world beater and demands to be included!

Darren Cave should start at 13. An excellent player, 24 years old, organises the Ultser back-line in defence, good off-loader, is all about the "top two inches". And, radically, outside centre is his preferred position, and he has played a slew of HEC games there.

Whichever of Trimble, Earls, Bowe or Fitgerald doesn't start on the wing, doesn't start. Tough.

Marshall freaks out under pressure. His game dipped again against Leinster, and I suspect it was because he was the oldest and most experienced in the backline. It would be fair to include him in the extended training squad, to give him a once-over. And, in fairness, he has earned it. But I suspect there would be issues with his judgement once again if he pulled on the green jersey.

I think Madigan look like the most able, all-round 10, but is he ready? Maybe another one for the Big List.

Tuohy and Toner to come in for O'Callaghan and Cullen. Not sure about Ryan.

Would take POM above Leamy, Ronan, Henry and Jennings. Last time Jennings played amongst an otherwise first-choice front row, France humiliated us. Jennings, playing for a breakthrough, did nothing of note. (Gibbo - try this. Draw two circles that overlap partially. Now write "Leinster" in one, and "Ireland" in the other. See the overlap? That's where Heaslip, SOB. Sexton et al are. That's not where Jennings is. Sorry.)

I think we have this mentality of "filling in" when we are
missing big name players. "What do we do in the absence of BOD? What do we do given Bowe is in poor form?" I don't know if it's a hangover from EOS' days, but it's so negative. We can't sit about and wait for the planetary alignment that indicates all our best players are available and up to speed.

We have a problem at 13 because we have convinced ourselves we do. Just pick a good 13 and get on with it. Like happened with Murray at scrumhalf.

Sin é wrote:


Why does Schmidt keep playing SOB ahead of Jennings in the big games? Its not as if Kevin McL is a world beater and demands to be included!

Personally I think it's because he wants another good lineout option in he backrow when we're away from home.The Leinster lineout is not functioning well this year and I worry it could cost us come the knockout stages of the HC and Rabo.

Good squad, I like it. Back-row is looking strong this year, front row perhaps a bit thin. The only change I would make is to put Toner ahead of O'Callaghan.

Morgannwg wrote: The only change I would make is to put Toner ahead of O'Callaghan.

If he delivers in the next two HEC rounds then yes he gets in ahead of O'Callaghan.

Also it seems Leo Cullen is a walking yellow card nowadays.

True. DK should also have an eye on the world cup, will Cullen and DOC be any good then?

If I were to choose your backline then it would be: Murray, Sexton/O'Gara, Fitzgerald, McFadden, O'Malley, Trimble, Kearney.

Bowe's error count is too high for me, a lot of simple knock-ons butchering tries for the Ospreys. Outside half is a coin toss. Perhaps go with O'Gara the match winner for the Wales game, a guy who has been there and done it before.

I don't think O'Malley should be considered at this point in time, his defence must improve if he wishes to overtake the other options. Cave, Spence, Griffin or playing Fitz at 13 would be my choices for the shirt. I think we all know it will probably go to Earls though, at least for this 6 nations.

Sexton has to start at 10 cant see O'Gara playing for ireland after the 6 nations. My backline would be

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. Darcy
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. Earls


I'd have McFadden, Bowe and maybe Madigan getting minutes in a few matches

Golden wrote:Sexton has to start at 10 cant see O'Gara playing for ireland after the 6 nations. My backline would be

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. Darcy
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. Earls


I'd have McFadden, Bowe and maybe Madigan getting minutes in a few matches

Golden, O'Gara signed a central contract that keeps him with Ireland & Munster until 2013. I doubt if the IRFU will head off to play 3 test matches against NZ on the summer tour with one outhalf whose kicking can go missing once away from the RDS/Aviva, not to mention picking up an injury.

I agree with Sin here. If we take a big and relatively young squad and are playing a traditional tour against Super 15 or NPC teams then a bunch of youngsters all together will get butchered. Stick in someone with the experience of ROG and it can give the young guys a focal point and some direction.

Golden wrote:Sexton has to start at 10 cant see O'Gara playing for ireland after the 6 nations. My backline would be

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. Darcy
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. Earls


I'd have McFadden, Bowe and maybe Madigan getting minutes in a few matches

I like the look of that backline but I'd go for McFadden ahead of D'arcy. D'arcy hasn't got the gas or power to trouble defences anymore and I think Cave would work well with McFadden.

Bowe v Trimble is a close call for me. Bowe isn't on top form but along with O'Driscoll is Irelands only proven world class try scorer. In principal I'd leave him out in favour of two on form home based players in Trimble and Fitzgerald but I could see the argument for sticking with Bowe.

fair enough and definitely needed on bench for tests. i would be amazed if rog started v wales though given we have lost twice in a row against them when he has started and played poorly

i would guess that a team of our younger players would be playing 2nd string super 15 sides so cannot envisage them getting beaten out the gate.

don alfonso the more i think about it i would start cave at centre. he is a specialist 13 and has played well guts of the year. bit more hc experience than o malley albeit o malley getting a bit of an ott digging for missing that tackle v bath. we are trying to put a square peg in a round hole. from what i have seen i think he is a more natural 13 than earls. earls much faster but not sure if he has the smarts to use his pace at 13

have not seen much of bowe this year but by all accounts he has not been great for the ospreys both on wing and in centre. it will mean dropping one of bowe,earls,trimble,fitzgerald but i think our backline would have better balance

Oh right i presumed after ROGs retirement talk at the RWC that hed finish up this year wasnt aware of the contract to 2013. But either way i have him on the bench for the 6 nations and hell probably travel to New Zealand but again he wont be first choice and hopefully hell have some competition for the second choice 10.

dublin_dave wrote:fair enough and definitely needed on bench for tests. i would be amazed if rog started v wales though given we have lost twice in a row against them when he has started and played poorly

i would guess that a team of our younger players would be playing 2nd string super 15 sides so cannot envisage them getting beaten out the gate.

don alfonso the more i think about it i would start cave at centre. he is a specialist 13 and has played well guts of the year. bit more hc experience than o malley albeit o malley getting a bit of an ott digging for missing that tackle v bath. we are trying to put a square peg in a round hole. from what i have seen i think he is a more natural 13 than earls. earls much faster but not sure if he has the smarts to use his pace at 13

have not seen much of bowe this year but by all accounts he has not been great for the ospreys both on wing and in centre. it will mean dropping one of bowe,earls,trimble,fitzgerald but i think our backline would have better balance

It isn't one tackle, and not just against Bath, when I referred to O'Malley needing to improve his defensive game.

O'Malley missed a couple on Griffin on Sunday too so he can definitely be exposed in defence. I like him though and hes definitely a natural 13. Unlike Earls he picks great lines and reads the play really well.

Earls pace gets him out of jail a lot but he doesn't really read whats going on around him, in attack or defence, hence hes better in the back 3.

What did you think of Griffin on Sunday rodders? I was impressed once again.

The pack picks itself (although there is talk of a back row with a lack of specialists but is this more due to team tactics rather than the players themselves?) and the captaincy to POC was a no-brainer.

It´s in the backs where the selection headaches come into play. Bowe to outside centre is one of those selections that sounds good on paper but in hindsight proves to be an absolute brain-fart of a selection. To give an example, in 2003 we had an injury problem at outside centre. No worry, we´ll put Cullen in there. He´s good. Ah, except he doesn´t really play there.

I´m sorry, but you don´t take your best attacking weapon and put him in a position he´s not familiar with and think he´s still going to be one of your best attacking weapons. If he´s performing at wing then keep him at wing. It´s like saying we have two flyhalves that offer different things on attack. OK, well let´s put O´Gara at 10 and Sexton at 12 and we solve the problem of The Rise and Fall of the D'Arcy Empire. Good on paper but later just good for toilet paper.

Also, we need to build for the next World Cup gets thrown around usually right after a World Cup. Well BOD will hopefully come back after the 6N. Are we to 'build' now and then leave the foundation stone and then put BOD on top of that and when he goes just use the foundation stone with the same player? It doesn´t work like that. You play your best specialist player with the best chances of combining well with the players around him. There is plenty of time to think of the big World Cup picture in 4 years. But in the meantime you have a 6N to win!

So if your pack is lucky with injuries, you have a team that can get vital possession. The centres are the key issue for the team. Who will combine well with Sexton (who should get the nod) at 12 and who in turn will combine well with the outside centre? It´s not rocket science. No RWC equation, no building for the future. Who can best fill those two positions now because they´re in the best form and can link well and turn these Irish backs into an attacking weapon like the pack.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The pack picks itself (although there is talk of a back row with a lack of specialists but is this more due to team tactics rather than the players themselves?) and the captaincy to POC was a no-brainer.

It´s in the backs where the selection headaches come into play. Bowe to outside centre is one of those selections that sounds good on paper but in hindsight proves to be an absolute brain-fart of a selection. To give an example, in 2003 we had an injury problem at outside centre. No worry, we´ll put Cullen in there. He´s good. Ah, except he doesn´t really play there.

I´m sorry, but you don´t take your best attacking weapon and put him in a position he´s not familiar with and think he´s still going to be one of your best attacking weapons. If he´s performing at wing then keep him at wing. It´s like saying we have two flyhalves that offer different things on attack. OK, well let´s put O´Gara at 10 and Sexton at 12 and we solve the problem of The Rise and Fall of the D'Arcy Empire. Good on paper but later just good for toilet paper.

Also, we need to build for the next World Cup gets thrown around usually right after a World Cup. Well BOD will hopefully come back after the 6N. Are we to 'build' now and then leave the foundation stone and then put BOD on top of that and when he goes just use the foundation stone with the same player? It doesn´t work like that. You play your best specialist player with the best chances of combining well with the players around him. There is plenty of time to think of the big World Cup picture in 4 years. But in the meantime you have a 6N to win!

So if your pack is lucky with injuries, you have a team that can get vital possession. The centres are the key issue for the team. Who will combine well with Sexton (who should get the nod) at 12 and who in turn will combine well with the outside centre? It´s not rocket science. No RWC equation, no building for the future. Who can best fill those two positions now because they´re in the best form and can link well and turn these Irish backs into an attacking weapon like the pack.

I agree with a lot of this, however with regards to who is played at 13, some people (mostly munster fans) believe that Earls is best suited to 13. To me, that is playing him out of position, but I do think he is going to be the 13 selected and we should get used to it. Either him or McFadden at 13. Something tells me we won't be fixing our backline/centre problems this 6 nations at least.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:What did you think of Griffin on Sunday rodders? I was impressed once again.

I thought he was excellent Rory and thoroughly dominated and outplayed O'Malley. I haven't seen much of him before but thought he was very good as was O'Hallaran.

My starting XV on current form would be:

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Toner
5 O'Connell (C)
6 Ferris
8 Heaslip
7 SOB
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Fitzgerald
12 McFadden
13 Cave
14 Bowe
15 Kearney

Bench: Court, Cronin, Ryan, Jennings, Reddan, O'Gara, Earls

Its a dilema to leave out Trimble but Bowe is a proven finisher and better footballer imo and Earls covers more positions from the bench. All the back line are clever footballers, particularly so in the back 3. Jennings gives the option of a natural 7 from the bench.

Again Tuohy would be pushing Ryan but I've stuck with Ryan to keep the Munster fans happy .

I'd be delighted to see that team,it's really the centres that are the only area where there is any real scope for debate but I'd like to see a 2 lads who are playing at 12 and 13 for the provinces play there for Ireland.Thats assuming McFadden gets more gametime at 12 and plays well.

Are we all agreed on:

01 Cian Healy

02 Rory Best

03 Mike Ross

04

05 Paul O'Connell

06 Stephen Ferris

07 Sean O'Brien

08 Jamie Heaslip

09 Conor Murray

10 Jonathan Sexton

11

12

13

14

15 Rob Kearney

Yup, I'm a bit concerned about Ross's form though and the fact that Court is our only bench option. Court is playing very well at LH but routinely gets mangled at TH. Are there any other viable alternatives?

roddersm wrote:My starting XV on current form would be:

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Ross
4 Toner
5 O'Connell (C)
6 Ferris
8 Heaslip
7 SOB
9 Murray
10 Sexton
11 Fitzgerald
12 McFadden
13 Cave
14 Bowe
15 Kearney

Bench: Court, Cronin, Ryan, Jennings, Reddan, O'Gara, Earls

Its a dilema to leave out Trimble but Bowe is a proven finisher and better footballer imo and Earls covers more positions from the bench. All the back line are clever footballers, particularly so in the back 3. Jennings gives the option of a natural 7 from the bench.

Again Tuohy would be pushing Ryan but I've stuck with Ryan to keep the Munster fans happy .

TBH Rods, looking to the rest of the season, it would probably suit Munster fans much better if there were no Munster players in the 6Ns. The attrition rate is very high - 20 out injured at the moment I believe! If we lose anymore of our frontliners, we'll be fecked. POC will be knackered as well coming back as more than likely he will play every minute of every game.

By the way, did anyone see the interview with Cave last week (think it was the Indo). Was very self-critical. Says he has to do a lot more effort into winning the ball a la BOD & McFadden.

It's madness Red Stag to take the field with just 10 players.

Sin é wrote:
By the way, did anyone see the interview with Cave last week (think it was the Indo). Was very self-critical. Says he has to do a lot more effort into winning the ball a la BOD & McFadden.

Yes but he actually said that he needed to work a lot harded, in that in the past he was lazy of the ball and its something he's been working to address.

He's a very clever player Cave and thats why I think he'd link very well with Sexton, McFadden, Fitzgerald, Bowe etc. He knows when to run, when to kick and when to pass and thats why with BOD out hes the best option.