Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

Can't see anything wrong with oil companies. Like every other business they are out to make money, but somehow it is frowned upon to make more than anyone else.
It is not the fault of the oil companies if there is future harm to the environment, as if there wasn't a demand or the product they wouldn't be continuing to invest in finding it. (if there even is an issue with the environment)
Oil companies probably put more money into alternatives than anyone else. Statoil in particular.

As for climate change, there is no doubt it is occurring, however considering the age of the earth is measured in billions of years and we are only able to go back as far as the last ice age (10-15000 years) to measure climate trends. I'm yet to be convinced of man's actual contribution. The number one greenhouse gas is not C02, CH4 or any other by product of our use, but infact naturally occuring water vapour, which our burning of fossil fuels barely make a dent in. Of course it's all about tolerances and thresholds, but with the likes of India, China and America being the worlds biggest polluters, I'm not going to feel guilty about European energy consumption. It seems very convenient that as people are reliant on fossil fuel then it is easy to tax it by both increasing it's price and the guilt associated with using it.

Anyway, all these lentil knitters who go on about the "evil" of oil have never ever given a viable alternative.
Personally I think Nuclear power is the way forward, but the uneducated hippies will never allow it.

[kwinigolfer]

Also believe Hart will turn out to be the real deal - shipped two in the first half today though.

[mystiroakey]

the future is rooney,wlishire, chamberlain. if we could get them all playing in one team we could start producing even if the rest arnt techinically perfect

[navyblueshorts]

Hate to burst the bubble but did anyone watch Bilbao recently? And they're what position in La Liga? Until England can play like the Germans (i.e. greater than the sum of their over-rated parts), they'll continue to fail. IMO, they'll be failing faster than ever looking at some of the European teams just now.

[mystiroakey]

lol navy- a league that underperforms one year in europe and we get that reaction, you are talking about a league that has had 16 quarter finalists in the last 5 years out of a possible 40(la liga being second with 8).

dont read into the game to much.

[navyblueshorts]

If you say so myst. Can I hear you say "Spain. World and European Champions"?

When will people actually watch what's in front of their faces? With the exception of a few (Rooney, for example), almost all of the English players are woefully devoid of the same technical abilities of the Germans, French, Spanish, etc etc etc.

[mystiroakey]

nbs not sure i get your point at all. dont confuse club teams with national teams, didnt understand your comparison at all. still dont in fairness.

if you wanna talk about the technical skill of the english players then i dont disagree with you, i have allready made the point above which i stick to. we need a spine that includes technically gifted players- like the wilshires and rooneys if we are gonna get any decent results in the future. By the way i am not talking about winning things either, just some credible performances !!

[navyblueshorts]

Fair point I guess but the English are pretty scheiss. The conversation was talking about England so I thought it pertinent to mention the National sides. My mistake.

[mystiroakey]

i didnt understand the burst the bubble comment thats all, none of us are dillusional about england. i think we can definently say this year in the prem has been strange- any off our top teams could put countless goals against any side yet also lose the next to anyone.

I am sure abit of stablility will be coming back soon

[Diggers]

Also the results of the English side on the past 12 months is actually good, Capello went on the back of a very good run of games including a win over Spain.
It's not like they have lost 10 on the trot. Nobody is deluded but it's not all doom and gloom.

[mystiroakey]

england are a good side. we are just not the amongst the top 4 or 5 that are expeptional.


but there is no shame in were we stand- unless offcourse people have the feeling we have a right to be one of the best teams.

[super_realist]

The problem with England is not a lack of technical ability, but the inability to play as a coherent unit. Countries like Greece, Denmark and Sweden in the past have done as well as England if not better without any great players.

It probably doesn't help that the England players get smoke blown up their over-rated backside all the time either though.

[navyblueshorts]

...unless offcourse people have the feeling we have a right to be one of the best teams.

Which far too many do.

The problem with England is not a lack of technical ability...

Oh yes it is - at least that's one significant failing. Compared to me they're the World beaters they think they are but sadly it's not me they have to play against.

[super_realist]

england are a good side. we are just not the amongst the top 4 or 5 that are expeptional.


but there is no shame in were we stand- unless offcourse people have the feeling we have a right to be one of the best teams.

Not even in the top ten oakey, despite what the rankings say.

[navyblueshorts]

Nice bit of news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/horse-racing/17393385

Shame I don't bet....!

[mystiroakey]

england are a good side. we are just not the amongst the top 4 or 5 that are expeptional.


but there is no shame in were we stand- unless offcourse people have the feeling we have a right to be one of the best teams.

Not even in the top ten oakey, despite what the rankings say.

deffinetly amongst them, results is the important factor and rankings takes that into consideration, however i admit that there are 10 or so teams capable of beating each other and very similar in abilities bar the obvious top 5

[Diggers]

In not sure how you can on the one hand say the English sides poor performance in Europe shows a decline yet also say that the English players dont have technical ability?
As Roakey says the English clubs have had huge Champions league success with a lot of English players key. The Champions League IMO is superior and more technical than international football so how can we say the players are really lacking ? Doesn't make sense to me.

[super_realist]

Simple diggers, champions league teams are made up of any nationality, national teams are made up of one nationality. England are half decent, but although they have technical ability, to some degree, they lack the depth and nouse of how to play successful international football, whereas many continental players are aware of how to play both forms.

I really think the main part of England poor international performances is down to a lack of understanding and mentality. Not to mention the managements obsession with picking square pegs for round holes. Just because you're a big name with a club reputation, doesn't mean you'll be a great or suitable international player.

[McLaren]

To get over the horror of man utd performance in Europe this season I decided to whack on the wonders of the solar system blue-ray i got the other day. It really is amazing visually in this format and of course brain cox is as interesting and engaging as always.

I love shows like this as they prove to all the people who complain about the license fee that there is not much else of better value, in terms of entertainment, for £150 a year.

Anyway, back to wonders, which really is a very interesting show and I would recommend going for the blue-ray version for the added visual impact. I will definitely go for the wonders of the universe after I have finished with this season.

[super_realist]

He's a bit camp though.

Just occured to me that the England football team is like Ian Poulter, they love themselves, not well liked, all talk no trousers, aren't as good as they think, don't turn up at big tournaments, only perform in fairly meaningless formats (Friendlies), dress badly, not very cultured, not terribly bright.

[Fader]

"Brain Cox" is that Brians more intelligent big brother

[Diggers]

Simple diggers, champions league teams are made up of any nationality, national teams are made up of one nationality. England are half decent, but although they have technical ability, to some degree, they lack the depth and nouse of how to play successful international football, whereas many continental players are aware of how to play both forms.

I really think the main part of England poor international performances is down to a lack of understanding and mentality. Not to mention the managements obsession with picking square pegs for round holes. Just because you're a big name with a club reputation, doesn't mean you'll be a great or suitable international player.

I dont think thats the whole answer. Other reasons for me are the lack of a winter break and too many games, would certainly explain why players have sometimes looked jaded. Another reason is a failure to play a Premier league style of football at international level. Why try and suddenly play keepball when you dont play it week in and week out, clearly sometimes the conditions the tournaments are in are not condusive to this though but Germany and Holland have recently shown its not just about pssoession. And finally we have been crap at penalty shoot outs which hasnt helped.

[super_realist]

However there are a large number of foreigners in the PL, who play the same number of games, get no winter break but still do better in internationals.

[Diggers]

How many of them play in world and european cup winning sides which is what you are measuring it by ?
Not many on the back of a premier league season, Fabregas who hardly played in those sides, no Brazilians I can think of, basically a couple of French guys from their good years and thats about it really.
Certainly not the core of any squad that has to go out and win a tournament.

[super_realist]

Not necessarily tournament winners, but a lot of players play in England who get a lot further in Internationals.

It's only a part anyway, there is a lot more wrong with the English approach to international football.

[navyblueshorts]

In not sure how you can on the one hand say the English sides poor performance in Europe shows a decline yet also say that the English players dont have technical ability?
As Roakey says the English clubs have had huge Champions league success with a lot of English players key. The Champions League IMO is superior and more technical than international football so how can we say the players are really lacking ? Doesn't make sense to me.

It's easy to say because I'm not looking at English footy through rose-tinted specs and, I think, I know when the Emporer isn't wearing any clothes. I'm not a fan of any team and I actually seriously dislike much that surrounds football. The game is capable of brilliance and really could be a beautiful game but is ruined by too many players and people like Blatter.
Anyway, back to technical skills. I don't care what nationality someone is when I'm thinking about what they can do but it's patently obvious (and has been for an age) that, with some exceptions, English players are sadly lacking in both their own ability to control and manipulate a football and also the ability to understand the game around them. It was laughable, for example, to watch Germany eviscerate England at the last World Cup playing exactly the sort of football that we claim as our birthright. It wasn't even that the Germans were doing 'silky' Latin skills and beating individuals one-on-one, but their understanding of space, movement off the ball etc etc was so superior to England it was a joke. The English on the day had no idea what was going on around them. Added to all that, too many individuals both think they are brilliant (media blowing smoke up their arses?) and don't care about what they do when on the International stage.

As for the "too many games" stuff, I'd accept that as a point (maybe) if the clubs didn't take their players on money-making tours to Asia etc in the "off season". The Premiership was meant to be at least 2 sides less in conception but money overrode those considerations and now the clubs are crying foul? Sorry, they made their bed...they can lie in it re. player burnout.

[Diggers]

In not sure how you can on the one hand say the English sides poor performance in Europe shows a decline yet also say that the English players dont have technical ability?
As Roakey says the English clubs have had huge Champions league success with a lot of English players key. The Champions League IMO is superior and more technical than international football so how can we say the players are really lacking ? Doesn't make sense to me.

It's easy to say because I'm not looking at English footy through rose-tinted specs and, I think, I know when the Emporer isn't wearing any clothes. I'm not a fan of any team and I actually seriously dislike much that surrounds football. The game is capable of brilliance and really could be a beautiful game but is ruined by too many players and people like Blatter.
Anyway, back to technical skills. I don't care what nationality someone is when I'm thinking about what they can do but it's patently obvious (and has been for an age) that, with some exceptions, English players are sadly lacking in both their own ability to control and manipulate a football and also the ability to understand the game around them. It was laughable, for example, to watch Germany eviscerate England at the last World Cup playing exactly the sort of football that we claim as our birthright. The English on the day had no idea what was going on around them. Added to all that, too many individuals both think they are brilliant (media blowing smoke up their arses?) and don't care about what they do when on the International stage.

As for the "too many games" stuff, I'd accept that as a point (maybe) if the clubs didn't take their players on money-making tours to Asia etc in the "off season". The Premiership was meant to be at least 2 sides less in conception but money overrode those considerations and now the clubs are crying foul? Sorry, they made their bed...they can lie in it re. player burnout.

Im not a fan of any of the big clubs who have played well in the Champions League either. Im simply saying the English players do perform in that technical arena playing a Premiership game. I dont see what rose tinted spectacles have got to do with it, Im simply making a point that there isnt any logic in your statement that I can see.
I agree that the Germans played well that day doing exactly as I said English players should do...playing a Premiership game. Which is what we did in 96 when we played really well. I was at the Holland game when we demolished them doing exactly what we do best.
I agree re the additional money spinning games...but thats hardly the fault of the players is it so again I dont really see your point.

[navyblueshorts]

Some English players are decent technically; I'll concede that. Nowhere near enough however. Perhaps it's more the fact that they're actually thick?

[Diggers]

I think people sometimes get a bit lost on what technical ability means. There is a great deal of technique involved in playing a game at high speed with instant control, you often see overseas players take a long time to adjust to that when they come over and their first touch can appear shocking.
Equally playing keepball requires different techniques which the english players are not great at because they dont play that way often enough or indeed ever other than at international level.
And to be honest if you took a global IQ test of footballers does anyone really think English players would score that much lower ? Players who I would call thick with no real obvious education.........Maradona, Tevez, Gazza, Rooney. Are they lacking in technical ability, hardly.

[McLaren]

I always think Gerrard explains exactly what is wrong with the english football mindset. he can bomb forward and ping the long balls, which is great when once every ten games he outperforms everyone on the park in terms of effort.

But just look at how poorly liverpool keep the ball when he plays, as soon as his defence splitting passes from 30 yards start to fail he is no more than a waste of possession. Yet a player like carrick who goes a little more under the radar, and who has the very awareness skills navy mentions, cant even get in the squad. A player like carrick will help you keep the ball and build attacks when the time is right and the players in the correct positions to do so.

Gerrrard on the other hand feels the need to force the situation and waste the ball.

[navyblueshorts]

You're right of course re. the IQ thing. Interestingly, having watched Shrek develop, I don't think he's thick at all (for all he often behaves like a prat) and he's one of the most intelligent English footballers for an age.

Of course there's a lot of technique in playing a high speed game with instant control, something that's sadly lacking in too many players. Too many English players don't try and ply their trade abroad where could obviously learn a lot; they simply aren't interested and the money is too good (read: ridiculous) in the Premiership. Or is it that the big sides in Europe etc aren't interested in buying English players because they aren't good enough?

I'm sure we could argue all day about this but I'm not sure I'll be convinced that English players are, in general, increasingly poor cf. other Nationalities.

[Diggers]

Carrick and Gerrard are completely different players with different skills. Carrick is a good player but he gets a nose bleed if he goes over the half way line, Gerrard is an attacking midfielder. Its like comparing apples and oranges.

[kwinigolfer]

Very sorry to read about Mervyn Davies's death; regardless of what anyone thinks of modern Rugby, it is impossible not to be moved by the performances of the true gladiators of the game, and Merv The Swerve was undoubtedly among the best the game ever saw.
Sad day.

[Diggers]

I certainly agree that it would be great if a lot more of the players did go abroad. It would broaden their horizons in many ways both socially and in a football sense.
But its not their fault they get an inflated wage over here so who can blame them for staying I guess. Even say a Lampard who is clearly a really bright guy has chosen to stay here when he could have learned more abroad. Then again his kids are here so maybe its tough to judge him for not going ?

[navyblueshorts]

I always think Gerrard explains exactly what is wrong with the english football mindset. he can bomb forward and ping the long balls, which is great when once every ten games he outperforms everyone on the park in terms of effort.

But just look at how poorly liverpool keep the ball when he plays, as soon as his defence splitting passes from 30 yards start to fail he is no more than a waste of possession. Yet a player like carrick who goes a little more under the radar, and who has the very awareness skills navy mentions, cant even get in the squad. A player like carrick will help you keep the ball and build attacks when the time is right and the players in the correct positions to do so.

Gerrrard on the other hand feels the need to force the situation and waste the ball.

Bravo. Gerrard is a very good example cf. Carrick. Gerrard can be awesome but can be very average.

Another problem with England, in particular, is the stupid need to play (what is thought to be) the best players, even if they're completely out of position i.e. a right sided midfielder on the left wing. Stupid in the extreme. It would be far better to play, arguably, weaker individuals in their favoured position. Seem to remember some quote from Jack Charlton once about how he'd been gobsmacked to be in Ramsey's sides and Ramsey had said he picks the best team and not the best individuals. England haven't done that for an age.

[navyblueshorts]

Very sorry to read about Mervyn Davies's death; regardless of what anyone thinks of modern Rugby, it is impossible not to be moved by the performances of the true gladiators of the game, and Merv The Swerve was undoubtedly among the best the game ever saw.
Sad day.

Agreed. Awesome player, way ahead of his time as well.

[mystiroakey]

Wow what a qualifying this morning-- wont spoil it for people that havent seen it!!

however it is top draw stuff!! this F1 could be immense

[McLaren]

mysti

Great to see another F1 fan on the golf section, i love f1. Probably more than golf!!

I just watched the 8.30 reply, but will definitely be getting up for the race live.


It was a very interesting day, i guess what we dont know is how each of the cars treat the tyres on longer runs. What I thought was very evident was how much more difficult it is to drive a car without the blown diffusers and off throttle exhaust gases.

[mystiroakey]

Yeah i am a massive F1 fan, fan of all sports really. Golf is my no.1 mind

its a mental weekend of sport me- almost 24/7

rugby and euro golf same time, then golf, then f1(gonna set my alarm!!), then golf , golf and and the odd bit of footy!!!!

sweet..

[Diggers]

Do you have to pay extra on Sky for F1? I have full sports but no way was going to pay any more over that for the grand prixs.

[mystiroakey]

Do you have to pay extra on Sky for F1? I have full sports but no way was going to pay any more over that for the grand prixs.

Nope - great channel as well from what i have seen. It just popped up.

Actually, you may have to have HD

[Diggers]

I don't pay for HD, spend the extra cash on multi room so I can get away from kids TV.
Big match today, Everton v Sunderland. Come on the mackems, shame we haven't beaten them in the last 15 games, totally bogie side for us.

[Fader]

F1 channel is part of the HD package as its only available in HD broadcast. Having watched the qualifying this morning it seemed to me that Vettel was fighting against his car a little. Also the Wings on the Mercedes look likes it could help shave a few tenths of a second off when the DRS is active.

Its all shaping up for an exciting season, and hopefully Hakkinen came show how good a driver he is as I highly rate him despite Qualification for this season opener.

If were on about favourite sports:

1.Golf
2.MMA
3.F1
4.Football (it would be higher but as a Blackburn fan not much to watch for these days)

[Diggers]

Pretty disgusting really that you have a full sports package and can't watch all the sports Sky shows. Luckily I'm not that fussed but it's a bit of a rip off. Makes you value terrestrial TV all the more.

[Fader]

Pretty disgusting really that you have a full sports package and can't watch all the sports Sky shows. Luckily I'm not that fussed but it's a bit of a rip off. Makes you value terrestrial TV all the more.

I stand corrected. Diggers check out channel 459 (that's what it is on my Sky+ box maybe different on yours). That channel is Sky Sports F1 (non HD variety) so it is avaialabe to Sky viewers that do not have the HD package so you can watch the coverage in what has been imo so far superb.

[super_realist]

I can almost see the appeal of f1, almost, but the problem I have with it apart from the lack of a level playing field is that its a 'sport' where the spectators/fans have no chance of participating in. You can be a golf ,football, rugby, cricket fan and play yourself, but you cant 'do' F1, unless you fantasise that you're at Imola on your way to Tesco in your fiesta,(or bus in Mac's case) so I'm not sure how people get into it or relate to it as a spectacle.

[Diggers]

Cheers Fader, will do. Do you know what time the race starts as the baby may well mean I'm up anyway. Nice to see the grid mixed up a bit.

[Diggers]

Super, me any my brothers go carting a lot , it's how most of the F1 guys start and you are so low to the ground it's a real sensation of speed and racing.
Plus it's a petrol heads sport , a lot of what happens on F1 influences car safety and other features. People whI like their motors and driving often like F1. It's really not that difficult to see where the following comes from.

[super_realist]

Yeah, I know what you mean Diggers, although carting is to f1 what pitch and putt is to golf.

I think I can appreciate rallying more than I can f1, but appreciate tech advances that may have roots in f1 or the luxury car market.

What I do find strange though is the strong female following in the sport. Seems odd for such a testosterone fuelled engineering competition.

[Diggers]

Girls love motors Super. I do agree it's a sport for less sporty types. My bro is mildly mentally handicapped and is literally obsessed, has a lot of friends from forums and loves all the geekiness of the sport.
Ultimately it gives a lot of people a lot of pleasure and hard to knock that.

[super_realist]

Interesting assessment. I'd never really thought of it that way before, but the people I know are into it fall into the less sporty bracket.

Can't knock it for pleasing so many people, but I think its in danger of being over promoted and made a bit too glitzy in the last few years.

[Sponsored content]