Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

Can't see anything wrong with oil companies. Like every other business they are out to make money, but somehow it is frowned upon to make more than anyone else.
It is not the fault of the oil companies if there is future harm to the environment, as if there wasn't a demand or the product they wouldn't be continuing to invest in finding it. (if there even is an issue with the environment)
Oil companies probably put more money into alternatives than anyone else. Statoil in particular.

As for climate change, there is no doubt it is occurring, however considering the age of the earth is measured in billions of years and we are only able to go back as far as the last ice age (10-15000 years) to measure climate trends. I'm yet to be convinced of man's actual contribution. The number one greenhouse gas is not C02, CH4 or any other by product of our use, but infact naturally occuring water vapour, which our burning of fossil fuels barely make a dent in. Of course it's all about tolerances and thresholds, but with the likes of India, China and America being the worlds biggest polluters, I'm not going to feel guilty about European energy consumption. It seems very convenient that as people are reliant on fossil fuel then it is easy to tax it by both increasing it's price and the guilt associated with using it.

Anyway, all these lentil knitters who go on about the "evil" of oil have never ever given a viable alternative.
Personally I think Nuclear power is the way forward, but the uneducated hippies will never allow it.

[McLaren]

Good news. If you ever happen to find yourself in Iran you can be comforted that you can still chat to your v2 golf buddies.

http://www.blockediniran.com/?siteurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.606v2.com%2Ff31-golf

[super_realist]

Are srixon not making clubs anymore? None on their website.

[McLaren]

Super

It seems they are owned or at least part of the Dunlop group in Japan along with cleveland, never compromise and XX10.

Check out this site;

http://golf.dunlop.co.jp/products/srixon/index.html

Maybe they only sell clubs in asia.

[kwinigolfer]

What a bunch of idiots the FA are.
Derry's red card not rescinded. Although Young was offside and probably not fouled.
But not pursuing Balotelli for his hatchet job on Song.

Makes you wonder what the point of the FA really is.
To rubber-stamp the unacceptable (especially diving and Balotelli) and turn a blind eye to the wrongly convicted is what it looks like to me.

[McLaren]

The FA do manage to repeatedly be the most incompetent organisation going, those two decisions doing nothing to disprove that notion. I have yet to see Mario's tackle but the consensus from everyone who has seen it seemed to suggest it was a strait red.

[McLaren]

I don’t know if anyone remembers but Navy quite rightly called into question the weird post Diana British need for collective standard responses to news events of a sad nature. The comedian Alan Davies is now receiving hate mail for refusing to state the party line when it comes to Hillsborough. On a radio show he said it is ridiculous that Liverpool will no longer play on the anniversary. He is of course perfectly correct in saying it is ridiculous.

Anyway, I am not really a telegraph fan but this guy comes close to desrcribing how I feel about these tedious outpourings by the UK public when “tragedy” strikes.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100150255/alan-davies-has-committed-a-thought-crime-against-the-post-hillsborough-cult-of-emotional-correctness/

Anyone else feel this way?

[Diggers]

I agree completely with Alan Davies, however as he gets right on my wick and makes some truly awful TV shows Im glad he is getting stick for it.

[super_realist]

I agree Mac, faux grief and faux offence are a bane of modern life.
Do Bradford refuse to play on the anniversary of their disaster? Arguably just as horrific. I've never liked Liverpool fc and like them even less for thinking that they are some kind of special case for dictating when they can and can't play. Pathetic people.

[kwinigolfer]

I don't care except when Liverpool's behaviour trumps common sense with regard to the timing of the Semi-Finals this weekend.
Why should Chelsea (not in my top 100 favourite sports teams) be made to play their semi just 48 hours before the Barca game?
Typically idiotic of the FA to penalise the innocent parties while cow-towing to other (faux?) interests.

[super_realist]

If footballers were better athletes they'd be able to play two games in 48 hours no problem.
I've got no sympathy with any of them who moan about how frequently they have to play. It's up to them to get themselves in shape to be able to do it. Let's be honest the game is very stop start, takes place in different parts of the field to each position and they only end up running about 7-8 km maximum. Bunch of bloody fairies.

[Hibbz]

I'm not convinced they even "run" that far super. They may cover that distance but not a great deal of it would be flat out running. Us posties cover that distance on a daily basis and most of us are lazy, fat knackers.

[Diggers]

Its the stop start nature of the ganme that makes it tiring, its a lot easier to run consistently quickly for a set time than it is to be doing shuttle sprints while twisting and turning.
It footballers werent super fit then it would be patently obvious that a manager could just decide his team would buck the trend and be the fittest and they would win every game because of that advantage.

[super_realist]

I still uphold that most footballers/ football as a sport are not as fit as they should be, either that or they are training incorrectly for the game. A professional athlete should easily be able to play for 90 mins every two days without an appreciable reduction in performance. No excuses. Its only 180 mins for heavens sake.

[Diggers]

So the biggest game in the world with money sloshing all over the place for expert facilities and personnel is somehow getting its fitness wrong ?
Lets look at it another way, how many 100 and 200 metres will Bolt run this year ? He will barely cover a few miles in total, yet athletes will still tell you how exhausted and jaded they are at the end of a season and that they can only peak once a year.
So they must be completely unfit by your logic ?

[mystiroakey]

they push themselves to hard , because of that they all end up haveing to play through niggles.

[super_realist]

I'm just saying look at Murray or Djokovic, stop start play ,twisting and turning, more springs, harder surfaces, more punishing shots and far longer matches and they play two three hour matches even in a best of three match game often in stifling heat in two days no problem.
Footballers are fairly fit, but its a fallacy to suggest they shouldn't be able to play two 90 min games in two days, in fact its rather pathetic. No other athletic sport are mollycoddled as much as footballers. They should stop being such poofs and just get on with it. other sports are much more demanding yet we don't hear them complaining.

[McLaren]

Super

Yet another spate of comments from you that defy logic and have me convinced you suffer from some sort of personality disorder. Do you really think you are more of an expert in matters of fitness than the people employed by the world’s top teams?

As diggers points out, if you were correct at least one team would have moved to another level of fitness?

You seem reluctant to accept any sport is “true” form of physical endurance but still cannot offer an example of what counts as a sport from the gospels of Super_realist. You are either a wum or a fuc k ing idiot.

[Diggers]

If tennis players ever have to play back to back games in heat, or not in heat, they are always whinging about the bad luck of the draw or that they are feeling a bit tired. You seem to think that just becasue they occasionally have to do it they dont complain about it...they do. They are also constantly moaning about how many tournaments they are expected to play, its Nadals biggest bugbear.
So what about my Bolt example, is he not fit, you havent answered that ?

[mystiroakey]

SR they can play more than two 90 mins games a week- however they couldnt acheive perfect performances or perfect fitness levels if they played every day..

Tennis players are individual sportsman- they cant sub themselves out of a match, so if they go to the end of a tourny then all players have played the same, and they have all fatigued at the same rate!

its all about what you are matched up against dude! football probally uses the most advanced fitness tecniques out of any other in the world due to the money that surronds it and the pressure that is applied to the players.

[super_realist]

That's precisely the point Mac, why is it that the worlds most popular sport can't train their 'athletes' to be able to play two games in two days (which only ever happens once in a blue moon anyway) when other sports which are more demanding on the athlete and more aerobically intense and don't have the benefit of selecting from a broad squad are able to manage just fine.

It's a legitimate question isn't it?

[Hibbz]

They may use advanced fitness techniques but unfortunately the vast majority of the pig thick players are unable/unwilling to stick to these techniques.

Christ enough of them still do that cretinous thing of taking off their shirt to celebrate despite the fact it's been an automatic booking for more than a year. Why would a feeling of extreme excitement make you want to do it anyway? Other than the desire to copy someone else you've seen doing it I guess.

[super_realist]

Diggers, Bolt and all other athletes will put in a ridiculous amount of training. He said on top gear he trains for something like eight hours a day. If footballers did more than three hours a day I'd be surprised.

[mystiroakey]

sr i think your missing the key point here.

again offcourse they can play more than twice a week- but the pressure and importance of winning games is off such a high value in football that teams are not prepaid to overplay there players- footballers have breaking points and fatigue points!

they hate international duty for this reason.

You cant compare individuals to team players, because an individual will play himself if he feels he can- its his choice(he will play well or badly). an individual in a football team isnt his own voice- he is told to play or not to play, to only train this amount this day, that amount the next!

I am not sure if i am explaining this perfectly , however i understand it 100%

[McLaren]

Super

"It's a legitimate question isn't it?"

It is and has been answered unless you happen to be one of the people who think they know better than the worlds leading experts in the area.


Here are a list of points you have failed to answer. Could you please take the time to answer them individually.


Do you really think the top teams would have better fitness levels if you were the head fitness coach?

Is Usian Bolt a fit athlete?

What counts as a physically intensive activity in your eyes?

[Diggers]

I think then you would be suprised, Bolt wont train intensly 8 hours a day and footballers will train more than 3. Bolt will also make sure he rests before meets to make sure he is in the best shape he can.
Footballers could play every day of the week but the matches would be rubbish to watch and as Mysti says the fixture lists may be harder on one team than another.
You often find in a tennis slam that one player might get lucky (usually Federer) and finish his semi on time while the other player has a rain delay and suddenly has less than a days rest. If you look at the statistics the player who has the rest days usually wins.

[kwinigolfer]

Seeing as I opened this can of worms, surely the issue should be this:
Did respective National Associations offer their respective clubs, Chelsea and Barca, equal opportunity to prepare for their game which, after all, generates direcly or indirectly income for those same associations?
Of course not; Espana acted with common sense, the FA ensured Chelsea would not be competing on a level playing field.
All thanks to Liverpool nonsensical assertion that their game (which shouldn't be at Wembley in the first place) could not clash with the H'boro date, and that, presumably, Chelsea/Spurs could not play Friday night.

The FA are a bunch of parasites, squeezing unearned income out of the game with impunity.

[super_realist]

Oakey, Teams have a ridiculous amount of players in their squad at the level which we are talking about, perhaps not always enough for a complete substitution or perhaps they don't want to mess too much with continuity, but they should be able to fulfill the odd 2 games in 48 hours obligation without whinging too much. It doesn't happen very often, and they've got enough time, resources and money to be able to train their athletes to be able to cope with such a demand in the rare times when it is necessary.

If a team is winning, such as in a World Cup campaign, you don't tend to hear them moaning about playing every two-three days.

Mac, yes if I had input in teams, they would be fitter, especially the british ones, I think Spain etc understand how to train for football properly, not sure the English ones do, certainly the SCottish ones don't.

Yes, Bolt is a fit athlete, i've never said he wasn't

Football constitutes an athletic pursuit, I just don't think the participants are at a level as high as they could be.

[mystiroakey]

Oakey, Teams have a ridiculous amount of players in their squad at the level which we are talking about, perhaps not always enough for a complete substitution or perhaps they don't want to mess too much with continuity, but they should be able to fulfill the odd 2 games in 48 hours obligation without whinging too much. It doesn't happen very often, and they've got enough time, resources and money to be able to train their athletes to be able to cope with such a demand in the rare times when it is necessary.

If a team is winning, such as in a World Cup campaign, you don't tend to hear them moaning about playing every two-three days.

They whinge because they can- because the pressure that is applied on them by fans,owners etc, they will say why should we have tyo do it if other teams dont!

Its not that they cant do it- its the fact they are not prepared to do it without a fight!

[Diggers]

Your whole argument here is based on a feeling that tehy could be fitter because they whinge when they have to play a batch of games close together.
Yet thats exactly what all athletes do in any sport, Ive heard athletes from every single sport I have ever watched complain about faitgue. All the tennis players, rugby players, athletes, sprinters, middle distance runners, high jumpers, footballers, boxers, cricketers..even snooker players. You name it and Ive heard them moan about busy ..schedules and unfair draws.
So could they all be fitter ?

[super_realist]

I don't think any sportsman should moan about anything. They are incredibly lucky to be in the position they are.

It's a sign of weakness to your opponent if you start moaning about things. Footballers appear to be the most vocal about it, and as far as I can see, have far less reason to be unhappy about fixture pile up's considering how easy their life is.

If you've got a lot of matches, it means you are successful, you can't have it both ways. Unless you are Liverpool and you hide behind the Hillsborough thing of two decades ago to gerrymander your fixtures.

[McLaren]

Super

Why dont you send your CV to man utd then? I am sure they would love it if you could improve the fitness of the team. You will earn a lot more than your current dole check.

[super_realist]

Mac, considering you are a lowly council clerk, I don't think we should talk about salaries.

[Diggers]

Its easy to say that Super. I could equally say you should never moan about anything, you are incredibly lucky to be born healthy and in an affluent country and from what you have said to a very comfortable family life.
You wont the lottery of life in so many ways yet you moan about a whole host of petty things....as do we all. Which is why its a bit rich to expect sportsmen to be any different. You adapt to your circumstances accordingly. A pauper and a billionaire will both probably whinge the same amount, just about different things.

[McLaren]

Super

You seem to think that when you offer opinions that fly in the face of the accepted thinking you are offering people something which only your wisdom can comprehend. Did you ever consider that you are almost always talking shi te and persistently fail to understand even the most basic ideas?

[super_realist]

Diggers, we wouldn't have a forum without it.

I actually am aware of how lucky I am, but I could never moan about having to play two games in two days.

[super_realist]

Super

You seem to think that when you offer opinions that fly in the face of the accepted thinking you are offering people something which only your wisdom can comprehend. Did you ever consider that you are almost always talking shi te and persistently fail to understand even the most basic ideas?

Mac, you could just as easily use that analogy to your own views Mac, which are more often than not completely without the support of anyone.

[Diggers]

Diggers, we wouldn't have a forum without it.

I actually am aware of how lucky I am, but I could never moan about having to play two games in two days.

Easy to say when you are not in that situation. Im sure a skint person says they would never moan if they had a bit of cash...doesnt work that way.

[super_realist]

I know Diggers, because it's not exactly a hardship is it? It's not like an 8 year old chimney sweep having to go up a chimney for nine hours two days in a row is it?

No one forces them to play football, so if you moan about it find a job where you don't have to work two days in a row. (if you can)

[McLaren]

Super

For once answer the question.

Do you think you are more wise and better able to determine reality than the rest of us and do you realise just how painful it is getting you to understand the most basic of ideas?

[super_realist]

Mac, I suppose you are going to tell me because you have read the blurb from the back of a book on fitness that makes you the expert, just as you do in politics and course design too?

You are equally opinionated on many things, so lets not pretend that you are holier than thou and accepting of other peoples ideas when you so plainly aren't.

[Diggers]

I know Diggers, because it's not exactly a hardship is it? It's not like an 8 year old chimney sweep having to go up a chimney for nine hours two days in a row is it?

No one forces them to play football, so if you moan about it find a job where you don't have to work two days in a row. (if you can)

But do all of them actually moan....no. The clubs do, the managers do, what percentage of players mind or say they would be tired ? You dont know. How could you ? Also as Ive said earlier they moan in all sports so Im really struggling to see what your point is.
Ultimately I have to go with the theory that they have fitness experts hwo knwo a great deal more than you and try and get the players in the best shape possible...why wouldnt they do that ?

[mystiroakey]

none of the players moan- they allways want to play on the whole- they try and fake that they havent got niggles to play!!

its as diggers says the clubs that need/want to protect there investments!

[super_realist]

So if they are perfectly tuned and capable of playing two matches in two days a few times a year then why do the managers/clubs moan?, if there is no evidence for them not being able to cope?

Simple thing is not to moan, it gives the opposition an advantage. They should be relishing playing so often.

[dynamark]

Digs the players are constantly monitored during training/warm up/warm down/ice baths/special suits to wear to improve blood flowing etc,diet.Its a
very through process to get the best from them now rather than 6 pints of guinness and a packet of park drive.Bound to be a bit of fatigue but then it becomes the coaches job.
Dont know if you guys have been to a decent basketball match but those guys are fit for being 7ft tall

[Diggers]

Super they moan because the club they are playing may well be fresher and therefore have an advantage. It's not ticket science mate.

[mystiroakey]

the clubs managers moan because they understand the shelf life of theer players, they understand the niggles they may have to be playing under, there understand that to be at 100% match fitness you need to have warmed down sufficently and then warmed back up- that takes time.

we are not talking about just being fit and playing football- we are talking about teams trying to get there players playing at peak levels.

Injuries are allways more likly when the players arnt perfectly conditined..

they use seriously sophesicated equipment and tecniques to work out how to condition players perfectly and if players could be at peak condition day after day then teams wouldnt whinge!

[super_realist]

Yes, I get that Diggers, I'm simply saying that they could be trained to a level where it is possible to play two games in two days without there being a lag in their performance. It can be done, especially as teams know that if they are going to be successful then more games will follow as a result of getting to the latter stages of tournaments. That is the bit that isn't rocket science. It shouldn't come as a surprise to them, should it? A little bit of training/nutrition/rest etc to get them in a position to play twice in 48 hours isn't beyond reasonable expectation.

My main gripe is that it's counter productive to moan, just as it is counter productive to moan at a ref or appeal his decision. Just get on with it and stop being big girls blouses. No wonder footballers deserve no respect.

[Diggers]

But the footballers aren't moaning ....and people in other sports moan anyway ......so iits not just footballers...... I give in.

[super_realist]

Yes Diggers, I know. Further to the moaning (footballers or not) though, I find the body language of footballers to be poor too, and I think they could learn a great deal about sport psychology. They miss a goal and it's as if someone has just shat in their mouth.

[McLaren]

Super, I ask again. Please answer this simple question.


"Do you think you are more wise and better able to determine reality than the rest of us and do you realise just how painful it is getting you to understand the most basic of ideas?"

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