Scotland v England Match Thread, Teams etc....

[HERSH]

First topic message reminder :

Scotland:

15 Rory Lamont,
14 Lee Jones,
13 Nick De Luca,
12 Sean Lamont,
11 Max Evans,
10 Dan Parks,
9 Chris Cusiter;
8 David Denton,
7 Ross Rennie,
6 Alasdair Strokosch,
5 Jim Hamilton,
4 Richie Gray,
3 Euan Murray,
2 Ross Ford (captain),
1 Allan Jacobsen.

Replacements: Scott Lawson, Geoff Cross, Alastair Kellock, John Barclay, Mike Blair, Greig Laidlaw, Graeme Morrison.

Added Spice
The Scottish Rugby Union have been left embarassed after T-shirts boasting of a Calcutta Cup win appeared on sale five days before this Saturday's match.

The mistake by the SRU's online retail partner led to T-shirts from Scotland's win in 2008 being re-released.

The shirts bore the logo: "Calcutta Cup. Scotland. Winners."

The blunder comes days after Scotland head coach Andy Robinson stood by comments he made after the World Cup accusing England of 'arrogance'.

England Squad

15 Ben Foden;
14 Chris Ashton;
13 Brad Barritt,
12 Owen Farrell,
11 David Strettle;
10 Charlie Hodgson;
9 Ben Youngs;
1 Alex Corbisiero,
2 Dylan Hartley,
3 Dan Cole;
4 Mouritz Botha,
5 Tom Palmer;
6 Tom Croft,
7 Chris Robshaw (captain),
8 Phil Dowson.

Replacements: Rob Webber, Matt Stevens, Geoff Parling, Ben Morgan, Lee Dickson, Jordan Turner-Hall, Mike Brown.

[wales606]

Well,

The only team this weekend who has exceeded my expectations this weekend are Italy.

France looked vulnerable for much of their game
Scotland looked dreadful...purely awful
England did very little and Scottish knock-ons meant their defence wasn't really tested.
Italy looked good though, at home they could well beat England and Scotland.

[eirebilly]

I thought that England (SL) was making a huge mistake in picking Hodgson... He won England the game

[trebellbobaggins]

Well that a match was meaningful.

[majesticimperialman]

Well an England win today. It might not have been one of the best flowing games, but it was not a bore fest either.

For a team that as not played together before i think they did quite well .

England can only improve as the tournament goes on.

Well played England.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

A dreadful match with two dreadful teams. England will no doubt improve from here, but that was as bad a game of international rugby as I have seen in quite some time. England should count themselves very fortunate that the Scots, as poor as they are, should have won. No composure, poor basic skills, and a questionable TMO decision are the reason England won. England offered absolutely nothing, the pack looked lightweight and the backrow anonymous. Barritt though had a good game, and I thought Farrell showed glimpses of what a good player he could become.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

No progress at all from Scotland...
What on earth can any coach to any different?
Scotland are playing the best players and they play like a bunch of idiots.

Is it not the job of the coach to actually work with them, to get them prepared mentally, physically and tactically so they don't... well, do that?

The fact that Robinson inherited these problems is no reflection on his ability. The fact that he's had the job for a few years and the team have made no progress under his watch certainly is.

To be fair on Robbo he put out a better side than Lancaster did.
It wasnt him that kept dropping the ball and knocking it on. At some point the players have to stand up and actually manage to play.

[eirebilly]

If Italy play like they did today and England like they did today then i see an upset on the cards.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

A dreadful match with two dreadful teams. England will no doubt improve from here, but that was as bad a game of international rugby as I have seen in quite some time. England should count themselves very fortunate that the Scots, as poor as they are, should have won. No composure, poor basic skills, and a questionable TMO decision are the reason England won. England offered absolutely nothing, the pack looked lightweight and the backrow anonymous. Barritt though had a good game, and I thought Farrell showed glimpses of what a good player he could become.

I point you to the same fixture in 2008 and 2010
I agree with the rest except on Farrell who to me looked overawed and not in the game.

[Gibson]

Well , Scotland had to win that, where do they go from here? No better chance, these eng kids will only get better.

If they dont, they wont win another game in this Comp. Simple as.

[trebellbobaggins]

That was the dog that won eng matches in the past, don't be so ready to dismiss them and think London will be easy.

[Gibson]

If Italy play like they did today and England like they did today then i see an upset on the cards.

Big time.

[Mad for Chelsea]

have quantified that PSW, I meant brilliant last-ditch defense

Individuals who I thought shone for England:
- Corbs: people worried about his scrummageing, but he went just fine, carried well and forced a couple of turnovers, one I think on our five meter line.
- Botha: like I said, pleasantly surprised by him.
- Robshaw: thought he led the team well, worked hard (despite not being a natural 7 he managed to make a nuisance of himself at ruck-time) and didn't annoy the ref
- Baritt: very good defensively and looked dangerous when he got the ball

Main negative was Dowson, Morgan looked much better when he came on. Also the line-out was wonky on our own throw and unable to pressure Scotland's at all.

[Cari]

If Italy play like they did today and England like they did today then i see an upset on the cards.

Big time.

Gawd can you imagine that win?? That would be awesome!

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

If Italy play like they did today and England like they did today then i see an upset on the cards.

Big time.

I said that before seeing this junk.

If they were good enough to beat France last year playing worse than they did today, they are good enough to end this year beating either of these two and wales. If they can teach Maclean to tackle.

[trebellbobaggins]

Well I'm not worried about England or Scotland after that.

do you think we are worried about wales?

No reason to. Be. London will be dog versus slog,, will be fun,

[trebellbobaggins]

Well , Scotland had to win that, where do they go from here? No better chance, these eng kids will only get better.

If they dont, they wont win another game in this Comp. Simple as.

True and I think they will. First game remember.

[mystiroakey]

Re: Predict the Winners for the forth coming weekend...!

Post by mystiroakey on Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:05 pm
scotland will go at england hard first 40 and possibly manage a small lead, however england will keep it real second half and get a couple of tries, we will win by 15 but the media will say its a shocking performance

[mystiroakey]

ok i wasnt spot on- but close

[flankertye]

Oh my christ we were lucky. Some decent performances. However it is hard to get a win in Murrayfield and there is lots to be proud of.
Thought Croft was pretty useless to be honest, and I've always been a huge Croft fan.

[Notch]

No progress at all from Scotland...
What on earth can any coach to any different?
Scotland are playing the best players and they play like a bunch of idiots.

Is it not the job of the coach to actually work with them, to get them prepared mentally, physically and tactically so they don't... well, do that?

The fact that Robinson inherited these problems is no reflection on his ability. The fact that he's had the job for a few years and the team have made no progress under his watch certainly is.

To be fair on Robbo he put out a better side than Lancaster did.
It wasnt him that kept dropping the ball and knocking it on. At some point the players have to stand up and actually manage to play.

Aye, but he set his stall out with the selection of a very mediocre Parks, especially with Weir and Laidlaw doing great jobs in very attacking sides back in Scotland. It was a negative selection. Once they went behind? Plan B wasn't good enough. There was no real pattern to the attack, no set plays, no strike moves. It's not like there's no Scottish backs talent out there- Edinburgh play, high-tempo attacking rugby. But the national team look toothless and clueless with ball in hand. Robinson hasn't managed to solve this at all.

[wales606]

If Italy play like they did today and England like they did today then i see an upset on the cards.

Big time.

Gawd can you imagine that win?? That would be awesome!

I thought it might happen before this weekend.

Now Italy are favourites in my mind.

Scotland for the spoon, since they wont win in Italy.

[Hood83]

On the bright side at least we won. on the not bright side Robshaw, love him as I do,is not a 7 (I'd like to see him at 6), Dowson is not an 8 and Croft is not a starting flanker

I actually thought Robshaw was excellent. Maybe as a 6.5 but i think he proved he can play at this level. Dowson was average, Croft largely anonymous.

The Calcutta Cup is the worst international match up, bar none. Awful lack of quality.

Still, although it was far from perfect, i actually thought our work at the breakdown was vastly improved. Both in terms of clearing out and turnovers.

Youngs was poopie, and the midfield had no creativity. They were the concerns

[EnglishReign]

First time these England lads have played together, they were professional and very disciplined. Add into the mix the players to come back (Wood, Lawes, Flood, Tuilagi) and I think England will be alright. Admittedly, Dan Parks was our best player tonight.

Eng clearly went out with a "beat us if you can" mentality, and this Scottish team should hang their heads in shame. If you can't beat this makeshift England team at Murrayfield, with that much possession, you have some BIG problems. I feel for Robinson, I really do.

[Gibson]

Well , Scotland had to win that, where do they go from here? No better chance, these eng kids will only get better.

If they dont, they wont win another game in this Comp. Simple as.

True and I think they will. First game remember.

True Baggins. True. Ive been watching this comp for 40 years. Momentum and a high learning-curve, can alter all early perceptions.

[ChequeredJersey]

Robshaw has been invisible. Whats the hype about?

Technically 7s are not meant to be seen everywhere. They are meant to be in the bottom of a ruck. Denton was fantastic, Rennie bloody good too. I thought Robshaw was good but not in position

[Mad for Chelsea]

Am I the only one reasonably pleased with England's performance? It was never going to be a classic feast of running rugby, but England defended well, took their chances, and ground out the win. Sure there's plenty of room for improvement but statements like "if they don't [improve] they won't win another game in this comp" I find slightly OTT. Italy for all their endeavour today showed they still can't defend properly.

[stlowe]

Far from a great performance, but considering I thought we would lose that game, I'll happily take the win.

First game from a new team and coaching group, so we should improve and I think we can get past what will be a tough match against Italy next week, but very much looking forward to the return of Lawes, Wood, Flood & Tuilagi for the Wales game.

[mystiroakey]

on the plus for england- they won in scotland, they were disciplined.

on the plus for scotland- there were a hairs breath away from a try

[ChequeredJersey]

On the bright side at least we won. on the not bright side Robshaw, love him as I do,is not a 7 (I'd like to see him at 6), Dowson is not an 8 and Croft is not a starting flanker

I actually thought Robshaw was excellent. Maybe as a 6.5 but i think he proved he can play at this level. Dowson was average, Croft largely anonymous.

The Calcutta Cup is the worst international match up, bar none. Awful lack of quality.

Still, although it was far from perfect, i actually thought our work at the breakdown was vastly improved. Both in terms of clearing out and turnovers.

Youngs was poopie, and the midfield had no creativity. They were the concerns

I didn't say he was bad, just not a 7. Wood plus Robshaw is a very good balance, both are 6.5s but play in a way that compliments each other. Maybe they should play left and right?

[Gibson]

No progress at all from Scotland...
What on earth can any coach to any different?
Scotland are playing the best players and they play like a bunch of idiots.

Is it not the job of the coach to actually work with them, to get them prepared mentally, physically and tactically so they don't... well, do that?

The fact that Robinson inherited these problems is no reflection on his ability. The fact that he's had the job for a few years and the team have made no progress under his watch certainly is.

To be fair on Robbo he put out a better side than Lancaster did.
It wasnt him that kept dropping the ball and knocking it on. At some point the players have to stand up and actually manage to play.

Aye, but he set his stall out with the selection of a very mediocre Parks, especially with Weir and Laidlaw doing great jobs in very attacking sides back in Scotland. It was a negative selection. Once they went behind? Plan B wasn't good enough. There was no real pattern to the attack, no set plays, no strike moves. It's not like there's no Scottish backs talent out there- Edinburgh play, high-tempo attacking rugby. But the national team look toothless and clueless with ball in hand. Robinson hasn't managed to solve this at all.

We could be talking about Kidney here. Up till now.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

A dreadful match with two dreadful teams. England will no doubt improve from here, but that was as bad a game of international rugby as I have seen in quite some time. England should count themselves very fortunate that the Scots, as poor as they are, should have won. No composure, poor basic skills, and a questionable TMO decision are the reason England won. England offered absolutely nothing, the pack looked lightweight and the backrow anonymous. Barritt though had a good game, and I thought Farrell showed glimpses of what a good player he could become.

I point you to the same fixture in 2008 and 2010
I agree with the rest except on Farrell who to me looked overawed and not in the game.

I would agree with you to an extent. He made alot of mistakes, but he did show a few glimpses of his talent. By the way, I have no motive to big him up- I'm an Irish fan. it would give me no greater joy to rubbish the entire England setup, but credit to where it is due. I also thought Botha had a decent match in the second row. He isn't a world beater but worked hard at the breakdown and did alot of damage.

English fans may be happy they won but there is very little to take from that match. There is a very soft underbelly to that pack, a generally poor backrow that I can't help but see the French, a full strength Wales and Stephen Ferris by his himself eating alive for breakfast. They didn't really have enough possession to show what the backs could do, but what they did have they looked uninspired and insipid. I genuinely see Italy winning for the first time against England especially with the match in Italy. The saving grace for England might be the unfamiliar surroundings of the Stadio Olimpico rather than the Stadio Flaminio.

[mystiroakey]

dont worry about it english lads- we won and we have room for improvement!!- its a fresh team,

this whole forum was full of england wont beat scotland- know that we have , its all they wont beat italy.

classic victim mentality

its laughable that these posters seem to care way more about england losing than winning there own games.

it makews it all the more fun when we win mind

[eirebilly]

No progress at all from Scotland...
What on earth can any coach to any different?
Scotland are playing the best players and they play like a bunch of idiots.

Is it not the job of the coach to actually work with them, to get them prepared mentally, physically and tactically so they don't... well, do that?

The fact that Robinson inherited these problems is no reflection on his ability. The fact that he's had the job for a few years and the team have made no progress under his watch certainly is.

To be fair on Robbo he put out a better side than Lancaster did.
It wasnt him that kept dropping the ball and knocking it on. At some point the players have to stand up and actually manage to play.

Aye, but he set his stall out with the selection of a very mediocre Parks, especially with Weir and Laidlaw doing great jobs in very attacking sides back in Scotland. It was a negative selection. Once they went behind? Plan B wasn't good enough. There was no real pattern to the attack, no set plays, no strike moves. It's not like there's no Scottish backs talent out there- Edinburgh play, high-tempo attacking rugby. But the national team look toothless and clueless with ball in hand. Robinson hasn't managed to solve this at all.

We could be talking about Kidney here. Up till now.

Watch yourself Gibbo

[Mad for Chelsea]

I thought England did pretty well at the breakdown TBH, we managed to slow down Scotland's ball pretty well, though still had problems at securing our own. Would like to see Morgan start against Italy.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

On the bright side at least we won. on the not bright side Robshaw, love him as I do,is not a 7 (I'd like to see him at 6), Dowson is not an 8 and Croft is not a starting flanker

I actually thought Robshaw was excellent. Maybe as a 6.5 but i think he proved he can play at this level. Dowson was average, Croft largely anonymous.

The Calcutta Cup is the worst international match up, bar none. Awful lack of quality.

Still, although it was far from perfect, i actually thought our work at the breakdown was vastly improved. Both in terms of clearing out and turnovers.

Youngs was poopie, and the midfield had no creativity. They were the concerns

I didn't say he was bad, just not a 7. Wood plus Robshaw is a very good balance, both are 6.5s but play in a way that compliments each other. Maybe they should play left and right?

Well Rowntree indicated that pre injury their first choice was Croft Wood, but that they were desperatly trying to get one of the genuine 7s uop to a standard they felt ready to start.
Which makes the whole robshaw question rather odd, if he continues to succeed as a captain that means long term neither of their first choice flankers.

As it is I dont think he really offered a lot in the game. England need their senior players to start filtering back in.

Youngs was generally pretty good, only the bad kick and passing to Ashton ( why the hell was he there?) instead of hodgson when he was isolated stand out. I think the real problem was that he was never given a chance to use his running game due to a lack of go forward from Englands pack and finding his back not organised outside him forcing him to surrender possession.
Hopefully some of that will improve as players come back and the side beds down, but many of these problems do stem from Lancasters policies and focus. He is very lucky his side won that game.

[maestegmafia]

I am amazed so many England fans are taking positives from this. England were awful. Foden is the only player worth any praise.

I think England will lose in Rome.

[gowales]

Good win for England. To be fair on the backs Scotland had most of the possession so they were mostly living off scraps.

[mystiroakey]

I am amazed so many England fans are taking positives from this. England were awful. Foden is the only player worth any praise.

I think England will lose in Rome.

lol see my post above, worry about your own game abit more,

[gowales]

I thought Barritt, Botha, Ashton and Strettle looked good

[eirebilly]

I am amazed so many England fans are taking positives from this. England were awful. Foden is the only player worth any praise.

I think England will lose in Rome.

lol see my post above, worry about your own game abit more,

Are people now not allowed to discuss Englands performance?

[mystiroakey]

I am amazed so many England fans are taking positives from this. England were awful. Foden is the only player worth any praise.

I think England will lose in Rome.

lol see my post above, worry about your own game abit more,

Are people now not allowed to discuss Englands performance?

oh no please keep setting yourself up for a fall, keep showing your victim side- its funny

[EnglishReign]

I think Sharples would've been a good shout in hindsight. Could've done with the extra gas out wide on a couple of occasions.

[trebellbobaggins]

Well , Scotland had to win that, where do they go from here? No better chance, these eng kids will only get better.

If they dont, they wont win another game in this Comp. Simple as.

True and I think they will. First game remember.

True Baggins. True. Ive been watching this comp for 40 years. Momentum and a high learning-curve, can alter all early perceptions.

Long way to go for them but I really think a new focus on youth is right for England.

[gowales]

Wasn't really a game for wings though. Strettle and Ashton defended well
Lee jones got smashed around a lot i think he needs to put on a bit of weight.

[trebellbobaggins]

France for the grand slam I reckon this year..

[eirebilly]

I am amazed so many England fans are taking positives from this. England were awful. Foden is the only player worth any praise.

I think England will lose in Rome.

lol see my post above, worry about your own game abit more,

Are people now not allowed to discuss Englands performance?

oh no please keep setting yourself up for a fall, keep showing your victim side- its funny

What victem side? I am happy for England that they won but they didnt do anything that would lead me to believe that they will worry the rest of the teams.

I think that it is a fair assumtion that based on the two games today that Italy will feel as if they can topple England next match. Where the hell is the victem side in that?

[gowales]

I think saying England will lose against Italy is a bit over the top.
Its very hard to have a good game up in Murryfield.

[Hood83]

On the bright side at least we won. on the not bright side Robshaw, love him as I do,is not a 7 (I'd like to see him at 6), Dowson is not an 8 and Croft is not a starting flanker

I actually thought Robshaw was excellent. Maybe as a 6.5 but i think he proved he can play at this level. Dowson was average, Croft largely anonymous.

The Calcutta Cup is the worst international match up, bar none. Awful lack of quality.

Still, although it was far from perfect, i actually thought our work at the breakdown was vastly improved. Both in terms of clearing out and turnovers.

Youngs was poopie, and the midfield had no creativity. They were the concerns

I didn't say he was bad, just not a 7. Wood plus Robshaw is a very good balance, both are 6.5s but play in a way that compliments each other. Maybe they should play left and right?

Well Rowntree indicated that pre injury their first choice was Croft Wood, but that they were desperatly trying to get one of the genuine 7s uop to a standard they felt ready to start.
Which makes the whole robshaw question rather odd, if he continues to succeed as a captain that means long term neither of their first choice flankers.

As it is I dont think he really offered a lot in the game. England need their senior players to start filtering back in.

Youngs was generally pretty good, only the bad kick and passing to Ashton ( why the hell was he there?) instead of hodgson when he was isolated stand out. I think the real problem was that he was never given a chance to use his running game due to a lack of go forward from Englands pack and finding his back not organised outside him forcing him to surrender possession.
Hopefully some of that will improve as players come back and the side beds down, but many of these problems do stem from Lancasters policies and focus. He is very lucky his side won that game.

I thought Youngs was ponderous. The pack was doing a decent job getting quick ball and he was slowing it down. We basically got half of the equation right. We were clearing out low, hard and fast. But then we weren't picking up quickly with the forwards and driving enough, instead we whizzed it out too quickly to the midfield which was too congested. It's a welcome change but still a LONG way off the top teams.

[mystiroakey]

I am amazed so many England fans are taking positives from this. England were awful. Foden is the only player worth any praise.

I think England will lose in Rome.

lol see my post above, worry about your own game abit more,

Are people now not allowed to discuss Englands performance?

oh no please keep setting yourself up for a fall, keep showing your victim side- its funny

What victem side? I am happy for England that they won but they didnt do anything that would lead me to believe that they will worry the rest of the teams.

I think that it is a fair assumtion that based on the two games today that Italy will feel as if they can topple England next match. Where the hell is the victem side in that?

eirebilly just to be clear - the comment wasnt directed at you it was at meast(i didnt notice it was your post- apoligies)- he spends 90% of his posts discussing england, yet is welsh- which i understand you know and that you like the fella- however the guy is irritating to me beyond belief,

[Mad for Chelsea]

I am amazed so many England fans are taking positives from this. England were awful. Foden is the only player worth any praise.

I think England will lose in Rome.

lol see my post above, worry about your own game abit more,

Are people now not allowed to discuss Englands performance?

oh no please keep setting yourself up for a fall, keep showing your victim side- its funny

What victem side? I am happy for England that they won but they didnt do anything that would lead me to believe that they will worry the rest of the teams.

I think that it is a fair assumtion that based on the two games today that Italy will feel as if they can topple England next match. Where the hell is the victem side in that?

I disagree. For all that Italy put in a decent performance today they still leaked four tries despite dominating posession for large patches, their defense just isn't good enough IMO, whereas England's defense today was very disciplined.

[Sponsored content]