Where now for Ireland?

by **Notch** Sat 23 Jun 2012, 5:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

Is the question posed by the year we've had. I'm trying to take a long view of our entire season rather than focusing on the tragicomedy of that last disgraceful game. 2011-2012 has been an unusually long and exceptionally disappointing season of test rugby for Ireland. It started with a lot of pessimism around the Ireland team (losing all 4 RWC warm-up tests consecutively) and ended in a similarly distressing fashion (Ireland's worst ever result and performance in the Southern Hemisphere). The statistics tell a similar story; in the seventeen matches we've played we have won just six, having drawn one and suffered ten defeats.

Wins over Australia, Italy (x2), Scotland, the USA and Russia are all we have to show for this year. For many the win we had over Australia was a triumphant validation of Kidney, who had come under heavy criticism following a string of incoherent and error-strewn performances in the lead up to that game. But it's worth noting it was Irelands only win against a side in the Top 8 of the world rankings in the last 12 months.

On the other hand we've had defeats to Scotland, England (x2), Wales (x2), France (x2) and New Zealand (x3). And one draw against France. It's distressing reading for any Irish fan. Putting the All Blacks series aside, since around 2005 we have always aimed to compete at the top end of the Six Nations table. But now the stats show that not only are we losing out to France, England and Wales- they've been fairly consistent and well practiced at beating us as well. We look comfortably a bottom three side in the NH rather than a top 3 team based on these results.

So my question is; how do we get back to the standard that is now demanded and expected of Ireland on the international stage i.e. being one of the top European sides? Can we even do that? Are we in for feast and famine over the next five years? What new ideas need to come into the set-up- could a clear out of senior players such as the one that led to Hayes, Horgan, Stringer, BOD and ROG getting capped in 2000 benefit us come the autumn? Do we need to make a break with the current coaching regime? Or is it just a case of fine tuning- a few new faces working under Kidney in the coaching set-up, a few new players coming in... gradual evolution of the sort Kidney has been trying so hard to make work.

What do you think 606v2? I am at a loss.

by aucklandlaurie Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:10 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Staying with Brian O'Driscoll did anyone else think that something wasnt exactly right in his post match interview with Ian Smith? When he was making reference to Queenstown.

What did you think wasn't right, or what did you think was wrong? He was asked if he'd come back to New Zealand in some other guise since he'd not be around in 12 years time as a player. He said something like if Queenstown came calling, he'd go back for a Fergburger or something.

What is the Irish meaning of the term "Furburger", I know what the New Zealand definition is.

by **rodders** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:10 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:Your problem against Wales both in the world cup and in the 6N's is that you completely forgot your offloading game. All Wales had to do was chop your forwards at the ankles and that was it, momentum over.

I have to disagree with that Dreamer. We actually made 3 times as many offloads as Wales in the RWC game. The problem was most of these were behind the gainline, where as Wales were able to repeatedly power over the gainline with their 3/4s. We had no one running straight and cutting lines back on an angle.

We actually offload far too much, what we don't do is break the gainline and when we do our support play is very poor. We're actually a lot like Wales in 2009-10, just drifting side to side and crabbing towards the touchline in attack.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:11 pm

Dreamer - Agreed, but I don't really know what game plan is there for them to even adapt too right now. The coach is in charge of this, in creating an effective team, building combinations, and an effective game plan. This is severely lacking right now.

Biltong - The reason that wouldn't work, selecting the Leinster XV, is because Kidney wouldn't have a clue how to play them. If Schmidt did have his say on how we played, then it could work. I've said this before and I will say it again, I think if Kidney was in charge of the ABs, even they would be ineffective. Why? Because they wouldn't be playing to their strengths. Would the ABs be good if they played a slow paced game? I highly doubt it. In the 2nd test, they were under immense pressure because of that.

by **Biltong** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:11 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Staying with Brian O'Driscoll did anyone else think that something wasnt exactly right in his post match interview with Ian Smith? When he was making reference to Queenstown.

What did you think wasn't right, or what did you think was wrong? He was asked if he'd come back to New Zealand in some other guise since he'd not be around in 12 years time as a player. He said something like if Queenstown came calling, he'd go back for a Fergburger or something.

What is the Irish meaning of the term "Furburger", I know what the New Zealand definition is.

We have one as well. Ok!

by **rodders** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:13 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Staying with Brian O'Driscoll did anyone else think that something wasnt exactly right in his post match interview with Ian Smith? When he was making reference to Queenstown.

What did you think wasn't right, or what did you think was wrong? He was asked if he'd come back to New Zealand in some other guise since he'd not be around in 12 years time as a player. He said something like if Queenstown came calling, he'd go back for a Fergburger or something.

What is the Irish meaning of the term "Furburger", I know what the New Zealand definition is.

I think this what BOD meant:

http://fergburger.com/fullscreen.html

by Guest Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:15 pm

rodders wrote:
rugbydreamer wrote:Your problem against Wales both in the world cup and in the 6N's is that you completely forgot your offloading game. All Wales had to do was chop your forwards at the ankles and that was it, momentum over.

I have to disagree with that Dreamer. We actually made 3 times as many offloads as Wales in the RWC game. The problem was most of these were behind the gainline, where as Wales were able to repeatedly power over the gainline with their 3/4s. We had no one running straight and cutting lines back on an angle.

We actually offload far too much, what we don't do is break the gainline and when we do our support play is very poor. We're actually a lot like Wales in 2009-10, just drifting side to side and crabbing towards the touchline in attack.

No you (sorry for this) panic passed/offloaded to each other when it wasn't on. I was meaning more when SOB was making a charge, made a couple of yards before someone got him and he never offloaded effectively. Neither did Ferris or Heaslip. Wales soon learnt that you weren't going to offload so they could just fan out and basically smother you defensively. We did it in both matches, I was just really surprised you guys didn't adapt from how you'd plaid against us from the world cup for the 6N's match.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:15 pm

I think Wales are the best team we could try and emulate right now in terms of progress. They have done a lot of things right over the past few seasons, and it shows. They may have lost the series like us, but it is clear they put in a much better fight than we did.

One thing Wales didn't do right in fact this tour, is use their strike runners enough. I think Roberts actually was missed this tour, but they should have been using North and Cuthbert more than they did. Those guys can tear teams apart with their powerful running.

I hope Gilroy can do the same for Ireland soon. Very Happy

by **rodders** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:16 pm

biltongbek wrote:I am late to the conversation but would like to add my 1 cent.

Why could Ireland bring the intensity in the second test but then failed so badly in the thurd test?

What Ireland need to take from this tour is only the second test, they can learn very little from the first and third test.

If I was declan (now don't laugh) In the AI's I wouls start with the Leinster team, only look at players outside the Leinster team that are seriously considered better.

Then add the Leinster coach as technical advisor for the matches, let them play and see where the players are that can't step up.

Then slowly work it from there. if it is necessary to start with 15 Leinstermen, then so be it, their core values, they gameplay and ethos needs to be instilled into the national team, their record proves that.

I've been saying that for the past 12 months but it won't happen. Even if it did there would be uproar in the media....come on Biltong, you've seen the Irish threads man! Laugh

by **Biltong** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:17 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think Wales are the best team we could try and emulate right now in terms of progress. They have done a lot of things right over the past few seasons, and it shows. They may have lost the series like us, but it is clear they put in a much better fight than we did.

One thing Wales didn't do right in fact this tour, is use their strike runners enough. I think Roberts actually was missed this tour, but they should have been using North and Cuthbert more than they did. Those guys can tear teams apart with their powerful running.

I hope Gilroy can do the same for Ireland soon.

I am not so sure emulating another country is the best way to go about it, each nation has different core strengths and that needs to be utilised and harnasses, not trying to do what works for someone else.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:17 pm

Even if the guys don't offload, we can still generate quick ball and keep the momentum going. If our guys DO break the line though and make a charge, we don't do anything with that advantage. Murray has a tendency to wait for a while at the breakdown, make sure the ball is completely secure (which actually gives the opposition more chances to compete) and look around for options for about 10 seconds. Then he usually ships the ball to the next set of forwards, to take the ball static. The process continues, yet no space is created. Usually we do this until we lose the ball.

by **rodders** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:18 pm

Dreamer I agree totally

.

by Guest Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:19 pm

Oh Wales had loads of issues this tour Rory, sheer stupidity being the main one. And our forwards were about a yard off the pace. Makes all the difference. Well that and having no line out or restart. When you think about it, it's actually a miracle we got so close in the last two tests...

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:20 pm

biltongbek wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:I think Wales are the best team we could try and emulate right now in terms of progress. They have done a lot of things right over the past few seasons, and it shows. They may have lost the series like us, but it is clear they put in a much better fight than we did.

One thing Wales didn't do right in fact this tour, is use their strike runners enough. I think Roberts actually was missed this tour, but they should have been using North and Cuthbert more than they did. Those guys can tear teams apart with their powerful running.

I hope Gilroy can do the same for Ireland soon.
I am not so sure emulating another country is the best way to go about it, each nation has different core strengths and that needs to be utilised and harnasses, not trying to do what works for someone else.

I don't mean in terms of game plan, or style, because we simply don't have the backs to do that. We don't have a Roberts. I mean we should be looking at how they have progressed into the team they are now, and follow that. They have done a good job bringing up guys from the academies and giving their younger generation game time. By the time their guys are 24, they have a lot of experience. Most our our players are just beginning their careers at that age. Right now we are just stuck in terms of progression. If not going backwards.

by **rodders** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:21 pm

There were a couple of examples even on Saturday when we made line breaks and there was no support at all. Most notably Ryan, who made a brilliant run and with only 1 man to beat only had Touhy struggling to get in support.

We are very poor at putting those chances away and at Leinster they would have at least 3 players in support.

by Guest Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:21 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Even if the guys don't offload, we can still generate quick ball and keep the momentum going. If our guys DO break the line though and make a charge, we don't do anything with that advantage. Murray has a tendency to wait for a while at the breakdown, make sure the ball is completely secure (which actually gives the opposition more chances to compete) and look around for options for about 10 seconds. Then he usually ships the ball to the next set of forwards, to take the ball static. The process continues, yet no space is created. Usually we do this until we lose the ball.

ha I'm sorry but you're just describing Wales of 09-11 (the 6N's part of 11)! Well except that instead of our forwards going side to side it was our backs. Same end result mind.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:22 pm

In fact Paddy Jackson is going to be a lucky boy this season, he will be miles ahead anyone else his age over the next few years.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:25 pm

What do you think changed that then dreamer? When did you guys make the transition?

by **rodders** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:26 pm

Have a good night guys, I could discuss Irelands problems until the cows come home but would sould like a Broken Record

I actually think things aren't as bleak as they appear and a few changes and improvements in a number of areas would make a big difference.

Biltong has got it spot in with a few of them earlier guinness

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:27 pm

See, I think the future is bright, but not with our current coaching setup rodders. I just don't think they will change anything.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:27 pm

Oh and good night bro! thumbsup

by Sin é Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:28 pm

Leinsters team for HC. Those bolded were in the 22 on Sat.
Those with * injured. and italics are not qualified to play for Ireland.

15: Rob Kearney (David Kearney*, 72)
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Brian O'Driscoll (David Kearney*, 66-72, blood sub)
12: Gordon D'Arcy*
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton (Ian Madigan, 74)
9: Eoin Reddan (John Cooney, 74)

1: Cian Healy (Heinke van der Merwe, 62)
2: Richardt Strauss (Sean Cronin, 68)
3: Mike Ross (Nathan White, 70)
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN (Devin Toner, 58)
5: Brad Thorn
6: Kevin McLaughlin (Shane Jennings, 62)
7: Sean O'Brien
8: Jamie Heaslip*

Its pretty much a Leinster team anyway. Anyone who is fit or IQ has been making the Ireland team bar Leo Cullen & Devin Toner.

by **rodders** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:29 pm

Believe

by **Biltong** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:30 pm

Then perhaps the Leinster coach (Scmidt?) should be added to the coaching team

by Guest Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:30 pm

Erm I dunno really. We had a rather fortunate(unfortunate if you're the player) spate of injuries that allowed players like Warburton, Lydiate, Faletau, Priestland game time. The Poland camps really, really helped too.

I know Stephen Jones and Shane Williams said having the youngsters come in was like a breath of fresh air, it just really energised them as a group and made the senior players really kick on to up their game. I mean Ryan Jones is back to his 05 form now he's playing that well.

I also think because we played so many different players we finally have some semblance of strength in depth.

2 seasons ago we had AWJ at lock and that was pretty much it. Then we had AWJ and Bradley. In last years 6N's we had AWJ/Bradley/Charteris, then in this years 6N's we added Ian Evans to it. In two seasons we went from having no 2nd row cover to having 4 quality players.

Our first year and a half under Gatland as well I think we were just trying to get to the right level physically fitness and conditioning wise. We've gone from being a 60min team to an 80min one and it's really really helped us.

Agree with you on Jackson, think I commented on it earlier in the thread. It's crazy some of your Irish youngsters just aren't getting as much game time at even pro-12 level.

by Guest Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:32 pm

rodders wrote:Have a good night guys, I could discuss Irelands problems until the cows come home but would sould like a

I actually think things aren't as bleak as they appear and a few changes and improvements in a number of areas would make a big difference.

Biltong has got it spot in with a few of them earlier

Agree with that Rodders. And nos da Smile

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:35 pm

I know, and it is very annoying too. Hopefully that will change big time. Hanrahan for example is potentially the best 10 available to Munster next year, but it is doubtful he will get a shot. I hope I am very wrong. One thing I have noticed change for Wales this season is just their pace and intensity, the two key things that seperate the NH and SH really. I hate playing Wales because at the breakdown they are just so quick. They are also very dangerous when they are on the front foot. I feel this way about the Ospreys too. Wales are the closest to the SH out of all the sides right now.

Biltong - I would love that to be honest, but I don't think it will happen. Like I said I see nothing changing. Kidney will persist with his game plan, whatever it is, and trying to perfect it. His "kill the game for the opposition" sort of thing that he does. Who needs a back line when you can do that, huh? Whistle

by Sin é Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:47 pm

biltongbek wrote:Then perhaps the Leinster coach (Scmidt?) should be added to the coaching team

This team was beaten by the Ospreys in the Rabo Final. Chances are Wales would beat them as well even with Schmidt coaching them!

15: Rob Kearney
14: Fergus McFadden
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Sean Cronin (Richardt Strauss 52; Sean Cronin, 68)
3: Mike Ross (Nathan White, 14)
4: Leo Cullen CAPTAIN (Brad Thorn, 45)
5: Devin Toner (David Kearney, 79)
6: Kevin McLaughlin (Jack McGrath, 40+1-47, temp sub)
7: Shane Jennings (Dominic Ryan, 74)
8: Jamie Heaslip
-----

OSPREYS: R Fussell; H Dirksen, A Bishop, A Beck, S Williams; D Biggar, R Webb; P James, R Hibbard, A Jones, AW Jones CAPTAIN, I Evans, R Jones, J Tipuric, J Bearman.

REPLACEMENTS: S Baldwin, R Bevington, A Jarvis, J King, T Smith, K Fotuali'i, M Morgan, T Isaacs.

The ref was Poitre!

Maybe they can't play two good games in 7 days.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:49 pm

As you can see, some of us would not be happy with a Leinster based irish side and would rather things stayed as they are..

Rolling Eyes

by Pot Hale Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:49 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Staying with Brian O'Driscoll did anyone else think that something wasnt exactly right in his post match interview with Ian Smith? When he was making reference to Queenstown.

What did you think wasn't right, or what did you think was wrong? He was asked if he'd come back to New Zealand in some other guise since he'd not be around in 12 years time as a player. He said something like if Queenstown came calling, he'd go back for a Fergburger or something.

What is the Irish meaning of the term "Furburger", I know what the New Zealand definition is.

Eh the New Zealand and Irish definition of a Fergburger is the same. It's the name of a burger joint in Queenstown that's very popular and the Irish lads talked about it as a good place to eat in media interviews.

What's your theory?

by **Biltong** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:52 pm

No Cian Healy, no Earls, no Best, O'Brein and Mcfadden and D'arcy needs replacement.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 10:53 pm

Sin, you wouldn't think you were an Ireland fan mate, no offence. A Kidney fan yes, but not an Ireland fan.

by MBTGOG Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:01 pm

It's not about having a Leinster based team. That's the problem. It is Ireland that are playing, bot Leinster or Munster, Ireland.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:02 pm

It is the fact that Sin would rather see Leinster do badly, as he always points out, than doing well and helping Ireland's cause.

by kunu Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:05 pm

Best players should play, end of story. Doesn't matter if all from 1 province, they're still from Ireland, and for other provinces to whinge about that is just petty. To be fair, our best possible team was fielded in two of the three tests.

by aucklandlaurie Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:09 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Staying with Brian O'Driscoll did anyone else think that something wasnt exactly right in his post match interview with Ian Smith? When he was making reference to Queenstown.

What did you think wasn't right, or what did you think was wrong? He was asked if he'd come back to New Zealand in some other guise since he'd not be around in 12 years time as a player. He said something like if Queenstown came calling, he'd go back for a Fergburger or something.

What is the Irish meaning of the term "Furburger", I know what the New Zealand definition is.

Eh the New Zealand and Irish definition of a Fergburger is the same. It's the name of a burger joint in Queenstown that's very popular and the Irish lads talked about it as a good place to eat in media interviews.

Pot hale, I didnt know that it was a Queenstown burger joint, until Rodders told me,I thought he had said "furberger" so i guess I misheard/misunderstood him. any way I do think for ireland to progress they have to move past Mr. O'Driscoll and develop an opportunity for other irish backs to have a real go, and that isnt going to happen as long as he is in the middle of the backline holding all the authority.

What's your theory?

by Sin é Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:12 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:It is the fact that Sin would rather see Leinster do badly, as he always points out, than doing well and helping Ireland's cause.

I really don't know why you come to that conclusion. Facts are that Leinster have been beaten and fairly recently.

If Kidney was coaching Leinster and they lost 3 rabo finals on the trot, you'd be looking for his head, but no one says a thing about a Schmidt coached a team who couldn't put two big back-to-back games two years running to win the double.

Maybe Schmidt is human after all.

by kunu Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:16 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:It is the fact that Sin would rather see Leinster do badly, as he always points out, than doing well and helping Ireland's cause.

I really don't know why you come to that conclusion. Facts are that Leinster have been beaten and fairly recently.

If Kidney was coaching Leinster and they lost 3 rabo finals on the trot, you'd be looking for his head, but no one says a thing about a Schmidt coached a team who couldn't put two big back-to-back games two years running to win the double.

Maybe Schmidt is human after all.

Who gives a toss about the rabo when you are winning the HC?

by **Biltong** Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:17 pm

Kunu, good question.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:18 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:It is the fact that Sin would rather see Leinster do badly, as he always points out, than doing well and helping Ireland's cause.

I really don't know why you come to that conclusion. Facts are that Leinster have been beaten and fairly recently.

If Kidney was coaching Leinster and they lost 3 rabo finals on the trot, you'd be looking for his head, but no one says a thing about a Schmidt coached a team who couldn't put two big back-to-back games two years running to win the double.

Maybe Schmidt is human after all.

Sin this is a stupid post even by your standards

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:19 pm

Sin -

by Taylorman Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:19 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:On the step up between international and provincial rugby, I really don't see that there is a massive step in many respects.

So the step up from Leinster to playing a test match against the All Blacks is not a massive step up? Honestly?

Youre talking about club rugby which basically features no players involved from the top 3 countries other than a handful of retirees or money seekers?

I think a reality check is needed buddy...honestly.

Again though, what you are saying is the difference in quality of the teams. The 6 nations is also a HUGE drop in quality compared to the tri-nations. Why? Because as you just said, no players involved from the top 3 countries are playing. Leinster would not have played a team as good, and as fast paced as the All Blacks. However, I think Leinster would do better than the current Ireland setup against the All Blacks. They play to their strengths, and they rely on a quick game themselves.

Also, physicality is all well and good, but if you take the ball static it won't mean a thing. I don't think NZ have the biggest guys in the world, but they are very powerful runners. They take the ball at pace. Too often these days we see O'Brien, Healy, Tuohy or whoever taking the ball static. They just get knocked back each time. It is so slow and so ineffective. The ABs wouldn't look powerful at all if they didn't play with pace. It is an essential component to their game.

Perhaps Rory but as far as I'm concerned the only reason Leinster would do better than Ireland is because they have better players and perhaps coaches...overseas ones. Thats the only factual difference between the sides. You cant compare apples and pears. With Leinster technically you have a larger pool of players in which to draw from.

Some might say that the Crusaders play better than the AB's (perhaps not at the moment but in the past) when that would not make sense- as the same players are available to the All Blacks. With Leinster its different.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:22 pm

How would Leinster have a bigger pool to draw from than Ireland?? With Leinster the only player it is different with is Nacewa, and we have a fantastic option on the wing in Bowe anyway. The difference between Ireland and Leinster, apart from the players/coaching, is that Leinster play to their strengths. It is that simple.

by kunu Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:23 pm

I think sin é means to say schmidt was not able to put 2 big performances together between winning the Hc and Rabo. But even that isn't true, Leinster went more or less the whole year unbeaten aside from ospreys matches and glasgow, there must have been 2 back to back big games at some point

by Sin é Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:24 pm

biltongbek wrote:Kunu, good question.

Most teams would like the double. Very hard to do (Leicester & Wasps have done it I think).

by kunu Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:28 pm

yeah but you aren't going to call for your coach's head if you dont get it....

by Sin é Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:34 pm

kunu wrote:I think sin é means to say schmidt was not able to put 2 big performances together between winning the Hc and Rabo. But even that isn't true, Leinster went more or less the whole year unbeaten aside from ospreys matches and glasgow, there must have been 2 back to back big games at some point

I'm pointing out that Leinster have not been unbeaten in Europe this year and they have lost three finals in a row. As a team that is seemingly superior to everyone else in Ireland how come they have lost 3 Finals against teams that are meant to be inferior. Is it tactics (coach's fault) or is it the player's fault?

Last year the excuse was that the lads went on the urine after the HC win and that is why they lost the final (which is fair enough).

This year, there were no celebrations after the HCup win and it was at home in the RDS and Leinster lost to the Ospreys.

I'm sure there were big back-to-back games at some stage, but as a League its not the end of the world if you lose a game and you are running away with the league anyway. Its the finals that count.

by Sin é Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:36 pm

kunu wrote:yeah but you aren't going to call for your coach's head if you dont get it....

I wouldn't be calling for his head - but I'm sure there are many out there who are none too impressed with losing 3 final on the trot.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:41 pm

Sin é wrote:
kunu wrote:yeah but you aren't going to call for your coach's head if you dont get it....

I wouldn't be calling for his head - but I'm sure there are many out there who are none too impressed with losing 3 final on the trot.

ye loads of leinster fans are going to be really mad at schmidt...gosh i sure wish kidney was our coach

by kunu Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:43 pm

Sin é wrote:
kunu wrote:I think sin é means to say schmidt was not able to put 2 big performances together between winning the Hc and Rabo. But even that isn't true, Leinster went more or less the whole year unbeaten aside from ospreys matches and glasgow, there must have been 2 back to back big games at some point

I'm pointing out that Leinster have not been unbeaten in Europe this year and they have lost three finals in a row. As a team that is seemingly superior to everyone else in Ireland how come they have lost 3 Finals against teams that are meant to be inferior. Is it tactics (coach's fault) or is it the player's fault?

Last year the excuse was that the lads went on the urine after the HC win and that is why they lost the final (which is fair enough).

This year, there were no celebrations after the HCup win and it was at home in the RDS and Leinster lost to the Ospreys.

I'm sure there were big back-to-back games at some stage, but as a League its not the end of the world if you lose a game and you are running away with the league anyway. Its the finals that count.

If by Europe you mean the Heineken cup, you're wrong we were unbeaten. As for the 3 finals, who cares its the RABO! Fans really do not care at all looking back on loosing it. Ospreys and Munster had a lot more to gain in those matches.

by Sin é Sun 24 Jun 2012, 11:44 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:How would Leinster have a bigger pool to draw from than Ireland?? With Leinster the only player it is different with is Nacewa, and we have a fantastic option on the wing in Bowe anyway. The difference between Ireland and Leinster, apart from the players/coaching, is that Leinster play to their strengths. It is that simple.

Think he is referring to the fact that Leinster have a huge population to draw from so should be providing a lot of players to Ireland.

Population of
Leinster: 2.5 Million.
Ulster: 2 million
Munster: 1.2 million
Connacht: 0.54 million.

Rory, do you honestly think that Ulster is as good as a top 4 country because that is who Leinster beat to win the Heineken Cup final.

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