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by **Ozzy3213** Thu 11 Oct 2012, 4:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

Second win of the season for Saracens and defeats for Welsh, Wasps and Worcester mean there is just 3 points between the bottom four.

Homepage - Page 17 Aviva-Premiership-Trophy-e1306508139154

2011/2012 – Newcastle Falcons
2010/2011 - Newcastle Falcons
2009/2010 - Saracens
2008/2009 - London Irish

POS	Aviva Premiership	PLAYED	WON	DREW	LOST	P F	P A	P D	T F	T A	TBP	LBP	POINTS
1	Leicester Tigers	8	7	0	1	201	166	+35	21	14	0	1	29
2	Newcastle Falcons	8	6	0	2	202	181	+21	20	15	0	2	26
3	Northampton Saints	8	5	0	3	213	189	+24	24	19	2	3	25
4	London Irish	8	5	0	3	210	194	+16	23	20	2	3	25
5	Harlequins	8	5	0	3	198	189	+9	21	20	1	3	24
6	Sale Sharks	8	4	0	4	199	189	+10	21	19	1	4	21
7	Gloucester	8	4	0	4	193	192	+1	21	20	0	3	19
8	Bath Rugby	8	4	0	4	185	193	-17	17	21	0	3	19
9	London Welsh	8	2	0	6	179	188	-9	18	18	0	6	14
10	London Wasps	8	2	0	6	172	195	-23	16	21	0	5	13
11	Worcester Warriors	8	2	0	6	175	208	-33	15	22	0	3	11
12	Saracens	8	2	0	6	166	209	-43	14	23	0	3	11

Fixture List
European Homepage

Waiting List
1. pullthestrings
2. Bathite

Welcome to Season 5 of the Aviva Premiership fantasty rugby game. Below are the rules of the game which must be adhered to. If there are any situations that arise in the course of the game which are not covered by the rules, a final decision will be made by the RFU (Ozzy3213) as to how the situation will be resolved.

Senior Squads wrote:
The maximum squad size is 40 senior players. If a team has more than 40 players in their squad then they will be fined £1 million per player over the permitted amounts per day for the first seven days. If after 7 consecutive days a team still has more than the permitted number of players then the team will be fined £2 million per player per day, and fined 1 league point per player per day for the next seven days. If after this time a team still has more than the permitted number of players in their squad, the RFU (me) will remove players at it’s discretion to bring them back under the permitted numbers. There will be no right of appeal to players being removed.

Be aware that all tier one international matches which are played during the season will count in the game, and players selected in the matchday 22's for those matches will not be eligible to play for their clubs on that weekend, therefore you must give due consideration to the make up of your squad.

Academy Rules wrote:
Each team will be allowed to have a listed senior academy squad of 20 players. Players who are in the senior academy must be under 22 years of age as of 1st September 2012 (therefore must have been born on or after 1st Septmber 1990). Players who are under the age of 20 (so born after 1st September 1992) AND are in the academy of the club that you are managing in real life, DO NOT need to be listed as senior academy players as part of your 20, but are available to you in this game and cannot be poached by other clubs without paying you a fee.

Should a player not listed in your 20 senior academy players, but part of the clubs academy in real life move clubs in real life, then you will have first option of promoting him to your listed senior academy. If you choose not to take this option he will become property of the club that he moves to in real life in this game.

Transfers wrote:

Domestic (other AP Teams)
Each team has a budget to use in the purchase of players. Domestic transfers between AP clubs, regardless of nationality of player, should be negotiated between the respective managers, and then confirmed on the Domestic Transfer Confirmation Page.

Domestic (Championship and below)
Each team may during the season purchase no more than 3 players from the Championship or the National Leagues. These players must be bid for on the Championship/National League bidding page, and each bid will be considered by me on it's own merits before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.

Foreign
To make a foreign transfer (i.e from any club outside of the AP, regardless of whether the player is English) a bid should be made on the Foreign Transfers Page, which will be considered by me against the posted guidelines for purchase prices before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.

Foreign transfers will unlimited during the off season and 2 during the season. The exact dates of the two transfer windows during the season is to be confirmed.

Player Releases wrote:
Managers may choose to release players from their clubs, for which they will be offered compensation

Compensation will be paid as follows

£2 million – current international (must have played international rugby in the previous 12 months)
£1.5 million – former international
£1m – top flight experience
£0.5m – other

If a released player plays in real life for a team outside of this game he will be deemed to have returned to that team. If not then he will be deemed to have signed for a Championship side. If another manager wants to pick a released player up, they will have to bid for him in the same way as for a foreign or Championship/National League player.

Retirements wrote:
There will be no compensation for retiring players. Should a player who retires decide to come out of retirement and play again, then he will automatically go back to the club who he was playing for in the game when he retired.

Fixtures wrote:
There will be 22 Aviva Premiership games per season, plus the play offs. There will also be Heineken Cup, Amlin Challenge Cup and Anglo Welsh Cup matches. These games will take place once a week. A thread will be put up for managers to name their teams on Thursdays, then on Fridays, managers will post the scores that they think will happen from these games (apart from games in which they are involved). An average of all predictions will be taken, and then 0.5 points added to each teams score for each prediction that had them as the winner, and that will then be the final score.

Teams wrote:
When naming your team, not only should you put the starting XV and replacements, but also tactics that your team will employ. Results will be affected by the tactics described.

In addition, each team must have the following:-

At least 10 England qualified players in your matchday 23, and at least 5 of those must be in your starting XV.

At least 2 props and 1 hooker on the bench.

All players must be eligible (not injured or banned).

Failure to comply with these rules will result in forfeiting the match and a 1 league point deduction.

If you fail to submit a team for a match, then the other team will be automatically awarded a 30-0 bonus point win. If both teams fail to submit a team, then it will be scored as a 0-0 draw.

Injuries and Suspensions wrote:
Injuries in this game do NOT reflect real life, they will be generated by me.

Players banned in real life will be ineligible for selection in this game for the duration of the ban.

Inclusion of injured/banned players will result in them being replaced by players on the bench, and the bench not having eight players, which may result in punishment if it concerns the front-row.

Punishment for fielding an ineligible player will be loss of one match point for a first offence, two for a second offence and so on.

Financial Rewards wrote:
There will be no rewards for the result of an individual match, instead the managers will receive cash for predicting.

£1.5m for descriptive predictions
£0.25m for scores on the doors predictions
If you fail to predict without first advising me that you are unable to do so that week, you will be fined £1m for a first offence, £2m for a second offence, £3m for a third offence etc.

AP finishing positions.

Champions: 8m
Runners Up: 6m
Playoff Semi Finalist Losers: 5m
5th: 4m
6th: 3.5m
7th: 3m
8th: 2.5m
9th: 2m
10th: 1.5m
11th: 1m
12th: 0.5m

Heineken Cup

Losing Quarter Finalists - £2 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £3 million each
Runners Up - £4 million
Champions - £5 million

Amlin Challenge Cup

Losing Quarter Finalists - £1 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £2 million each
Runners Up - £3 million
Champions - £4 million

Anglo-Welsh Cup

Losing Semi Finalisst - £1 million each
Runners Up - £2 million
Champions - £3 million

If your budgets falls below minus £10 million for any reason, the administrators (ozzy3213) will step in and players from within your squad will be released for the relevant financial compensation in order to bring your budget back above minus £10 million.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 11:57 am

Greenwood only seems to be a good pundit because he writes about your players lol

Tuilagi is too one dimensional for 12.

by Steven_Sharks Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:03 pm

Greenwood is a fine pundit. He, Dewi Morris and Dean Ryan my favourites.

Tuilagi never too one dimensional for 12. Maybe add a bit of kicking and he would be ideal. He would create so much space for the 10 with him at 12 by just running straight.

The suggestion that Tuilagi is too one dimensional but Barrit isn't is to me ridiculous.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm

Tuilagi at 12 could work but would need to really work on his passing game. Nonu was nothing but a bosh merchant starting out but developed his game massively. If Tuilagi switches in its Nonu he should be looking at basing himself on

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm

Barritt has a much more varied skill set than Tuilagi. He nowhere near as good ball in hand (and I mean nowhere) but he's got much more to his game.

Top of my head Manu received the ball 12 times v SA and ran 11. Barritt can pass and offload and also kick.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm

LukeLovesLuka wrote:Given that Joubert has made himself available for selection am I good to use him as EQ now?

Yes you can mate. Lancaster is at liberty to select him so he is EQ.

by dammit_chris Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm

Think I've posted Greenwood's articles for the last 5-6 weeks - think he's excellent in what he writes and says - pretty much spot on every time. Dean Ryan has also got better and better, will be a real shame when Sky lose AP coverage.

Tuilagi can't exactly be described as one dimensional, he's a world class attacker - Greenwood makes the comments well saying that he can do more than run forward, just needs to use his passing ability more often, but lacks the kicking game for 12 at present. His defence could be more suited to 12 too. Could be a work in progress for 2015 though, espc as no one else is showing any signs of coming through!

by dammit_chris Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Barritt has a much more varied skill set than Tuilagi. He nowhere near as good ball in hand (and I mean nowhere) but he's got much more to his game.

Top of my head Manu received the ball 12 times v SA and ran 11. Barritt can pass and offload and also kick.

Haha brilliant - did you not see the cr ap ball that Barritt and the backs were giving Tuilagi most of the game, what else was he meant to do. Barritt doesnt have a 'much more varied skill set than Tuilagi' and I quote from Greenwood's article...

"But, and this is a big but, he is not a natural second receiver. He does not have the pass for it. An international side does not need to have a passing inside centre – Sonny Bill Williams certainly was not, and Jamie Roberts is not. But they provide impressive power and pace that Barritt cannot".

Barritt is an awesome defender, can do what most other professional players at 12 can do, but is just a stop gap for England as we wont go forward with him. Would say he's best defensive 12 in Europe, but he offers zero in attack.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:25 pm

Hes a world class ball carrier but I wouldn't say hes a world class attacker. His passing isn't up to scratch yet and he needs to get an offloading game going. He breaks the line so much but doesn't get the ball off to support then. Potential is there though for him to be the best 13 in the world.

Roberts may not be the best long passer but he has a strong offloading game and short passing game. SBWs passing game was very strong he really came on particularly at the Chiefs and no one in the world could offload like him. Both provided alot more then just boshing through the tackle.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm

He can be described as 1 dimensional...I just did.

Running every time you get the ball is one dimensional. He's outstanding ball in hand but he runs 90% of the time

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:32 pm

You can have your own opinions you know Chris, you don't have to keep quoting your hero Greenwood.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:32 pm

All those waiting for Manu to develop an offloading game like Sonny Bill are going to be waiting a very long time. That sort of skill, whilst it can be honed, is one that is innate, you either have it or you don't, and sadly it is not in Manu's DNA.

He will, with time improve his passing range and his decision making ability, as well as his ability to read the game. The other thing is, and I may be wrong here, but height wise Manu looks a lot short shorter than either Sonny Bill or Jamie Roberts. This is another reason that he will not be able to have quite the same offloading game as SBW, as him being 6'4" enables him to get his arms higher and above to the tackle to offload, whereas Manu being shorter his arms often get wrapped up naturally as part of the tackle meaning getting the ball out is a lot more difficult.

by Steven_Sharks Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:34 pm

A good pass just before contact, if used correctly, can be just successful as an offload.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:35 pm

But Tuilagi doesn't pass.....

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:39 pm

Steven_Sharks wrote:A good pass just before contact, if used correctly, can be just successful as an offload.

No disagreement from me with that, draw the man, commit him and pass to the support runner, fantastic. Requires playing heads up rugby though, and that's one of Manu's faults right now, he can at times play very head down as he knows that he has power and can break tackles.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:42 pm

Agree Pete.

He is unreal ball in hand but one dimensional. It's why I don't think Fofana/Manu work as a combo as Fofana although more a runner likes to keep hold of the ball too.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:43 pm

Tuilagi is the same size as Nonu. Again Nonu didnt have the best offloading/passing game starting out but develped it beyond sight. Not expecting Tuilagi to get anywhere near SBWs offloading game but if hes to move inside to 12 he needs to develop the passing game same way Nonu did or he will be nothing more then a bosh merchant and you need more then that to reach the top at international level

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 12:44 pm

If he develops see French possibly going 12. Fickou 13. Fofanna down the line because of Fofanna's lack of passing. Fantastic runner but agree Steve he really does hog the ball.

by dammit_chris Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:00 pm

Manu actually has a very good pass Pooly, got quite a good range too - no issue with that at all - issue with him is that he puts the blinkers on and puts his head down and doesnt look for the pass. Just needs to sort that out and as he's only 21 I think he'll be able to sort that out - how old was Nonu when he got moved from wing to centre? Must have been mid-twenties?

Leicester he does a lot of passing, but for England it's the opposite as usually gets awful ball from the 10-12 channel, normally because we get slow ball from the pack and then it's Manu to do the tidying up, by taking the contact and resetting.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:02 pm

Yea poor Manu having to run it every time, must be so hard for him carrying the team.

I wouldn't know if he has a "very good pass" as he doesn't pass.

by dammit_chris Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:09 pm

Not saying Manu carries the team at all - just tidies up some crap ball.

If you want to keep being sarcastic/criticise the comments that I make it is up to you, I really just want to discuss rugby and not interested in having petty little conversations like this as not wanting to waste time and get it like it was last season.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:09 pm

Nonu on the wing is a bit of myth. He played one season there for the Hurricanes when Umaga and Conrad Smith were in midfield but nearly all his games the rest of his career before and after that season where in the centres. Read a very good knock up on his playing stats on the main rugby board here the other week. Was very enlightening!

by Guest Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:11 pm

Not sure how it works Luke what happened with ben Morgan when prop bought him?

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:13 pm

You keep talking balls and the sarcastic comments will keep flowing Wink

by Guest Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:13 pm

Steven_Sharks wrote:Greenwood is a fine pundit. He, Dewi Morris and Dean Ryan my favourites.

Tuilagi never too one dimensional for 12. Maybe add a bit of kicking and he would be ideal. He would create so much space for the 10 with him at 12 by just running straight.

The suggestion that Tuilagi is too one dimensional but Barrit isn't is to me ridiculous.

Agree 1000% Barritt massively one dimensional compared to manu

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:13 pm

How?

Barritt passes and kicks????

by LukeLovesLuka Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:14 pm

Petes cleared it up, cheers matt

Ozzy3213 wrote:
LukeLovesLuka wrote:Given that Joubert has made himself available for selection am I good to use him as EQ now?

Yes you can mate. Lancaster is at liberty to select him so he is EQ.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:16 pm

http://www.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/player/14237.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

Nonu's All Black career stats. Played 6 games on the wing for the All Blacks all coming from on the bench and that was with a few starts in midfield sprinkled in the middle. If I find the thread that discussed his franchise stats I'll post it. Was a very good read. Completly blew the myth that he developed on the wing out of the water

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:18 pm

Pooly, chill man. You seem to just want to argue with Chris rather than have a discussion about the game today (might not be the case but that is how you are coming across).

Lot's of valid opinions on here. Obviously mine are right and the rest of you are wrong, but hey, that's ok, I forgive you all. Wink

by Guest Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:19 pm

SirJohnnyEnglish wrote:Nonu on the wing is a bit of myth. He played one season there for the Hurricanes when Umaga and Conrad Smith were in midfield but nearly all his games the rest of his career before and after that season where in the centres. Read a very good knock up on his playing stats on the main rugby board here the other week. Was very enlightening!

He played more than one season on the wing at club level and started some on the wing for AB,s I liked him on the Wing attacking wise but he used to struggle against jinky wings defensively. Improved massively as a player

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:20 pm

To me the phrase one dimensional means you know what the player is going to do as he does it every time.

It's not a discussion that Manu is a better player than Barritt....he is, that's a fact.

But do people honestly think Manu has a more varied game than Barritt???

Barritt is not a world beater but he's a got a nice little boot on him, a decent pass and a nice little offload.

Manu doesn't really have these in his bag, he's a world class runner and physical presence but doesn't offer much more.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:24 pm

His AB stats are there on the link I posted Matt. Never started a game on the wing. Always came off the bench when playing wing. If I find the article on the main board here I'll post it but he basicaly only played one season on the wing for Hurricanes bar the odd game here or there. One of the AB posters did a write up on all his Hurricane games and where he played. Like I said I was quite shocked reading it

by Guest Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:26 pm

I think that AB stat is wrong or my memory ain't what it used to be. I getting old Very Happy

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:29 pm

I'm chilled Pete, just having a bit of Saturday Chris baiting.

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:31 pm

Yeah well this is meant to be a discussion about rugby rather than just trying to bait people.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:31 pm

No I was genuinely surprised when I saw the stats as well Matt. Was a bit of an eye opener as I always thought he was developed on the wing as well. Think the fact he came onto the wing for the ABs against the Lions early on in his career might have tinted our memories a bit

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:34 pm

If Chris stops spouting rubbish I'll promise to reel it in.

Can't get fairer than that tbh

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 1:52 pm

Clark starting......uh oh

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 2:27 pm

Saints just walked Tigers back in scrum, look really strong

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 2:32 pm

Ford's kicking really not up to scratch, should have nailed that

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 2:41 pm

Better

What a pass from Youngs

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 2:50 pm

Ford showing why he's not ready for 1st team at Tigers. Missing touch from pen and 25% kicking is not good enough at AP level never mind Int.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 2:52 pm

Ford is struggling big time now!

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 03 Nov 2012, 2:53 pm

Having one poor game where his kicking is off doesn't mean he's not ready for 1st team rugby. He has looked good in most of his starts for Tigers so far, he's just having an off day, as players do.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 2:55 pm

Bad calls and terrible kicking.

I love it when people bang out he should be involved for England etc but he's just not anywhere good enough.

Like the cockers comment that he'll start him ahead of Toby Flood when he's better than him. On this showing he's a fair distance from Jeremy Staunton never mind Flood!

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 2:56 pm

Not just his place kicking though, looks a little lost out there. Missed touch was poor in this kind of game when you're losing.

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 3:00 pm

Hes looked decent ball in hand but struggling big time with his kicking. To be fair to him hes been decent in his other starts just having a bad day.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 3:07 pm

Ford & Tigers needed that, game on

by SirJohnnyEnglish Sat 03 Nov 2012, 3:10 pm

Tigers building the phases better but Saints look so good defensively!

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 03 Nov 2012, 3:39 pm

Much better from Ford 2nd half

by dammit_chris Sat 03 Nov 2012, 4:59 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:If Chris stops spouting rubbish I'll promise to reel it in.

Can't get fairer than that tbh

Bit pathetic really, look last season the arguments got pretty heated and we both agreed that we wouldn't go down that route as it was spoiling the game for all of the others. I'm not looking to have any arguments with you, accept that you have different opinions to me and I don't go around saying that you are wrong, or that I think you spout rubbish.

If you don't agree with me, then that is fair enough but there are ten other people playing the game and I really would like to avoid repeats of last season, so let's stop the childishness now yeah and move on with it. It is getting pretty old and tiresome now.

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