Irish Autumn Squad-BOD AND BEST OUT!

First topic message reminder :

So Kidney announces his squad today, a 32 man panel against the boks and pumas. More players come into consideration for the Fiji game.

A 31 man Ireland squad including four uncapped players has been named by Ireland Coach Declan Kidney for the 2012 Guinness Series games against South Africa, Fiji and Argentina.

Centre Luke Marshall and forward Iain Henderson named in the panel and who were involved in the Ireland training camp in September are included in the squad as are prop David Kilcoyne and hooker Richardt Strauss, who is now eligible to play for Ireland based on his residency for the past three years.
In addition to the naming of the Ireland squad for the 2012 Guinness Series, there were also changes announced to the makeup of the national coaching staff with current Munster Assistant Coach and former international Anthony Foley joining the Ireland coaching team.

Foley will be now be leading the defence plans and systems allowing Assistant Coach Les Kiss to lead the attack shape for the team as well as continue to coach the backline. Foley will remain working with Munster Rugby outside of the international window. It was also confirmed that Leinster scrum coach, Greg Feek will continue providing his expertise to the Ireland team during competition time.

Commenting on the Guinness Series games and the addition of Anthony Foley, Ireland Coach Declan Kidney said: "We have three incredibly competitive games ahead of us in November and while there have been quite a few injuries and niggles in the early part of the season, it has opened up opportunities for other players to step into the squad. There are world ranking points on offer, so the underlying challenge for us is to work towards retaining and improving our ranking position ahead of the Rugby World Cup pool draw. While that is the end goal, our focus will be getting our preparations right to match the intensity of international games.

"I'm pleased that Anthony has taken up the offer of working with the squad to assist during this vital period in November. His previous experience of working with the team during the last RBS 6 Nations championship was important, but his own abilities and experience were central to bringing him onboard. I would like to thank Rob Penney and Joe Schmidt for being so positive and giving Anthony Foley and Greg (Feek) the scope to be part of the plans that we have."

Anthony Foley said: "I was delighted when Declan approached Rob and me about the possibility of working with the Ireland team again. I enjoyed the opportunity I got during the Six Nations working with the players and I felt once we were all comfortable with the balance between Munster and Ireland, I jumped at the chance. I certainly feel I can contribute positively and when you get the chance to coach with your country, you don't want to pass it up.

Ticket sales have reached over 46,000 for the South Africa game with only a limited number of categories available for purchase from IrishRugby.ie and www.ticketmaster.ie

While the Argentina game is a full month away, ticket sales are at just over 37,000 tickets and are selling quickly and have already surpassed the attendance the last time Argentina visited the Aviva.

Rava wrote:Prof, none of them would have made the bench so perhaps they are better starting for thier provinces.
The team and the replacements is staring out of the page. Same old, same old guaranteed. It won't change until Kidney has gone.

You thinking along these lines Rava?

Match day squad v SA

15. Earls
14. Bowe
13. BOD
12. Darcy
11. Trimble
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Heaslip
7. POM
6. McLaughlin
5. POC
4. DOC
3. Ross
2. Best
1. Healy

16. Strauss
17. Court
18. Fitzpatrick
19. Ryan
20. Reddan
21. ROG
22. McFadden
23. Zebo

I think this is what Decy will go for. Personally I would change

15. A.N Other fullback
11. Earls
9. Marshall
7. Henry
4. Ryan

19. Henderson in place of DOC.

DOD wrote:Hookisms. I dont want ROG in the side, I would like to see Madigan. Also how do you know what POM is like, or if he is likeable or not, do you know him? Oh and POM will be captain of ireland.

Sorry, it wasn't me that posted about his personality that was another poster who either quoted me or I quoted him. I have never heard him speak in any interview so I have no idea nor do I care. I'd love to grab Mike Phillips by the throat and punch him in the face if I could but it doesn't mean I wouldn't want him as the Lions 9.

As I've said three times already, he is a future talent and a good one at that. He isn't ready now. He isn't good enough now. He is well down the list of form Irish backrow players and shouldn't be in the squad. In a season or two he might be first choice, but he simply isn't up to it at present.

DOD wrote:Hookisms. I dont want ROG in the side, I would like to see Madigan. Also how do you know what POM is like, or if he is likeable or not, do you know him? Oh and POM will be captain of ireland.

Ferris likes POM and obviously respects his opinion - after Ferris got penalised for that penalty he shouldn't have been penalised for, Ferris quoted POM as the one to reasure him in the media: "Pete came over to him and said these things happen, don't worry."

I think that was POM first cap.

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:Hookisms. I dont want ROG in the side, I would like to see Madigan. Also how do you know what POM is like, or if he is likeable or not, do you know him? Oh and POM will be captain of ireland.

Ferris likes POM and obviously respects his opinion - after Ferris got penalised for that penalty he shouldn't have been penalised for, Ferris quoted POM as the one to reasure him in the media: "Pete came over to him and said these things happen, don't worry."

I think that was POM first cap.

Once again Sin since you are incapable of reading, profitius stated that 'POM was one of Munsters best players last season and he was again at the weekend. Hes not the most likeable character but if you can't say he isn't good enough.' I made no comment about his character as I don't care. I'm only interested in the player and he isn't up to the task just yet. He will be, but not right now.

Also, congratulations on picking a totally irrelevant quote that means nothing and proves nothing. One of your better imbecilic points.

BelfastDickVet wrote:

rodders wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:
Did best have a poor game against castres, the line out was solid, the scrum was dominant and he had good go forward ball in the loose. And it was his second game back, he stared against Connacht the week before.

Bollix he did, based on what? I thought he had a brilliant game and he was MOTM last week(although should have been Henry).

Sorry that was meant to say "Did best have a poor game?" I left out the question mark. The rest of my statement was backing the point that he had a fantastic game which is contrary to what profitius said in a previous comment.

Ah yeah sorry Dick I gathered that, my comments were aimed at the original suggestion that Best was poor.

BelfastDickVet wrote:

rodders wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:
Did best have a poor game against castres, the line out was solid, the scrum was dominant and he had good go forward ball in the loose. And it was his second game back, he stared against Connacht the week before.

Bollix he did, based on what? I thought he had a brilliant game and he was MOTM last week(although should have been Henry).

Sorry that was meant to say "Did best have a poor game?" I left out the question mark. The rest of my statement was backing the point that he had a fantastic game which is contrary to what profitius said in a previous comment.

I was just using Best as an example. He had a poor game by his standards and I wasn't the only one who thought it. I made the point it was his first game back and players need a 3 or 4 games to gt up to speed so I wasn't having a go at Best.

profitius wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:

rodders wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:
Did best have a poor game against castres, the line out was solid, the scrum was dominant and he had good go forward ball in the loose. And it was his second game back, he stared against Connacht the week before.

Bollix he did, based on what? I thought he had a brilliant game and he was MOTM last week(although should have been Henry).

Sorry that was meant to say "Did best have a poor game?" I left out the question mark. The rest of my statement was backing the point that he had a fantastic game which is contrary to what profitius said in a previous comment.

I was just using Best as an example. He had a poor game by his standards and I wasn't the only one who thought it. I made the point it was his first game back and players need a 3 or 4 games to gt up to speed so I wasn't having a go at Best.

We don't mind you guys having a go at Paddy Wallace but just leave Best out of it.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote:

DOD wrote:Hookisms. I dont want ROG in the side, I would like to see Madigan. Also how do you know what POM is like, or if he is likeable or not, do you know him? Oh and POM will be captain of ireland.

Ferris likes POM and obviously respects his opinion - after Ferris got penalised for that penalty he shouldn't have been penalised for, Ferris quoted POM as the one to reasure him in the media: "Pete came over to him and said these things happen, don't worry."

I think that was POM first cap.

Once again Sin since you are incapable of reading, profitius stated that 'POM was one of Munsters best players last season and he was again at the weekend. Hes not the most likeable character but if you can't say he isn't good enough.' I made no comment about his character as I don't care. I'm only interested in the player and he isn't up to the task just yet. He will be, but not right now.

Also, congratulations on picking a totally irrelevant quote that means nothing and proves nothing. One of your better imbecilic points.

If he wasn't worthy of being in the Ireland squad/team, Ferris, a very experienced international would hardly be quoting him to the media in such a way. You may not rate him, but his peers in the Ireland backrow do.

Jeebus Sin, so you judge a players capability by how nice they are to their peers then?

Sin é wrote:
If he wasn't worthy of being in the Ireland squad/team, Ferris, a very experienced international would hardly be quoting him to the media in such a way. You may not rate him, but his peers in the Ireland backrow do.

This quote was given in the aftermath of the Welsh game...in February. Ferris simply gave a narrative of what happened after the tackle that cost us the match. At least read something you quote from. Your quote means absolutely nothing. It doesn't go to the point of whether he is a good enough player for the Irish squad, nor does Ferris comments make any allusion to that. He simply tells the tale of a player who said something. Big deal. What has this quote got to do with his playing ability? What has a quote from February got to do with a squad picked in October? What do words spoken have to do with playing ability or O'Mahony's form? This is a piece of narrative journalism nothing else.

I thought Best had an average enough game against Castres, upped it against Glasgow. So far this season Brady and Herring have been slightly more accurate out of touch than him, he's had a few throws called crooked, but neither can compare to what he brings in the tight.

I think Peter O'Mahony will make a good international backrow and be a fine player for Munster, he just hasn't hit top form so far this season. A lot of players in this squad are in that bracket unfortunately.

Rava wrote:Jeebus Sin, so you judge a players capability by how nice they are to their peers then?

Not really on how nice he is, just that his opinion was rated and Ferris was reassured with that.

Has anyone touched on P Marshall, not even making the training squad, he really deserves a call up at least to training squad, has been the form (or at least one of) irish scrum half.

Think he's very hard done by there.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote:
If he wasn't worthy of being in the Ireland squad/team, Ferris, a very experienced international would hardly be quoting him to the media in such a way. You may not rate him, but his peers in the Ireland backrow do.

This quote was given in the aftermath of the Welsh game...in February. Ferris simply gave a narrative of what happened after the tackle that cost us the match. At least read something you quote from. Your quote means absolutely nothing. It doesn't go to the point of whether he is a good enough player for the Irish squad, nor does Ferris comments make any allusion to that. He simply tells the tale of a player who said something. Big deal. What has this quote got to do with his playing ability? What has a quote from February got to do with a squad picked in October? What do words spoken have to do with playing ability or O'Mahony's form? This is a piece of narrative journalism nothing else.

the big deal is that a 22-year old kid, new to the international squad felt he had something to contribute to a much more senior team mate. That illustrates to me that this kid is a respected member of the Ireland team. Only an idiot would quote someone they don't respect.

It illustrates that O'Mahony is a go to player even at the age of 22. There is more to making a top class rugby than just playing ability. There are hundreds of lads out there who had great ability, but never made it as a professional player. Hopefully some of his grit and determination will rub off on some of the other members of the team and squad.

Kingshu wrote:Has anyone touched on P Marshall, not even making the training squad, he really deserves a call up at least to training squad, has been the form (or at least one of) irish scrum half.

Think he's very hard done by there.

Both Paul Marshall and Jackson are very unlucky not to make it,maybe after the 6 Nations we'll have relief from the tedium that is Kidneyball.

Sin é wrote: The big deal is that a 22-year old kid, new to the international squad felt he had something to contribute to a much more senior team mate. That illustrates to me that this kid is a respected member of the Ireland team. Only an idiot would quote someone they don't respect.

It illustrates that O'Mahony is a go to player even at the age of 22. There is more to making a top class rugby than just playing ability. There are hundreds of lads out there who had great ability, but never made it as a professional player. Hopefully some of his grit and determination will rub off on some of the other members of the team and squad.

What absolute tosh. The article implies none of these things. Ferris did not go to O'Mahony in an hour of need and ask for his advice. O'Mahony simply slapped him on the back and said 'hard luck'. Oh how inspirational! O'Mahony simply must be in the squad with uplifting chat like that. Move over Mandela. Barack Obama, read this newspaper piece, learn from O'Mahony and you will win the election. Mind blowing stuff.

If the water carrier said this to Ferris would you be saying that he was inspirational? Of course not.

Also, now you are saying that players shouldn't be picked on form. Well done Sin. You have shifted the goal posts once again.

None of these absolute nonsense you have spouted has anything to do with whether O'Mahony should be picked on form for the side.

Oh for Gods sake why bother arguing about who did what etc. POM is in the squad because he is one of our best backrowers in the country. Whether H&H (maybe the clue is in the name) thinks he should be in or not is his opinion (admittedly something from a JRR Tolkien novel but his opinion none the less). It is right for him to give his opinion as he can clearly take the ridicule it deserves.

I give up. I'm never posting on an Ireland thread again.

The whole thing reminds me of the Father Ted episode when Ireland entered Ted for the Eurovision, so that they'd lose and wouldn't have to host it.

No idea what the IRFUs wider agenda is but it clearly isn't to win rugby games or be successful.

Thank you and goodbye .

not a very exciting squad and still no sign of a backs coach. yawn. I would be amazed if the two tests did not make for really turgid viewing. surprised so many tickets have already been shifted.

well done kilcoyne, henderson and luke marshall but i cannot see them getting game time yet

Rog is lucky to get his place over Jackson,Keatley and Madigan very lucky. Gilroy is a talent but not starting cannot really argue with Zebo getting the nod.

I would be amazed and pleasantly surprised if this current coaching line up gets the same starting 22 over the last few years playing to their potential.

Considering how difficult it is to be enthused by Ireland at the minute, I've always been baffled by the hype of the Lions. I just don't get it. Maybe I don't know the history or something. Just seems like another type of Barbarians team. Is it not a bit self deprecating to have to gang up in order to challenge the southern hemisphere anyway?

i dont get the Lions either. All been downhill since Jim Telfer left. That test win in a hostile rugby playing environment and Living with Lions dvd was as good as it got.

If they do not win next year it should be disbanded.

It is a great honour for the players to be selected but as a fan i can take it or leave it

Whatever about the Lions v SA or NZ against Aus its not even worth bothering about

Aus will probably have a new coach by then and if they get their better players back from injury they will have too much skill and flair out wide against a team of big welsh lumps

Lions may smash them in the front 5 but not sure that will be enough

All I will say on this is, lets hope Kidney does not lose us our top 8 seeding. He has completely wasted 4 years for Irish Rugby as it is. Of that there is no doubt. Just protect our status quo(it was far better when you arrived) and then feic off, you incompetent gobshite.

As for the squad, well its a joke. Form players ignored, provincial mullackers like POM included and has-beens like ROG, DOC & Darcy retained. Unreal, but to be expected from this man.

I´m delighted Strauss is included btw. Best hooker in the NH. He is fully committed to Leinster and now to Ireland. And its in the rules. So why not use a legally adopted WC player? Be stupid not to.

No more comments from me on this thread. See ye all in 2013 when yerman is gone.

haha you tell em gibbo

to be fair i think omahony is getting a raw deal on this thread. he has only impressed me in fits and starts but he is definitely in the top 5 back rows in Ireland. I will take the Munster lads word for him. He is a head the ball but thats no harm.

Mike McCarthy and John Muldoon will never be international class never and are both in their 30's. ROG has been a great servant but he is playing poorly and Munster look a better side with Keatley at fly half. He is also 35 yes 35. He will be 38 at next world cup, thank for the memories Ronan time to step aside.

I am bemused by the coaching situation. Im beyond anger and disappointment at this stage.

I wonder what odds you will get on us scoring no trys v argentina and sth africa?? im bringing a waterproof sleeping bag and some methodone to the aviva

From an outsiders perspective I cant believe Ulsters Stand Off Jackson was ignored. Is he injured or something?

Clearly the best Fly Half in Ireland at the moment and the future for Irish rugby at 10.

Welshmushroom wrote:From an outsiders perspective I cant believe Ulsters Stand Off Jackson was ignored. Is he injured or something?

Clearly the best Fly Half in Ireland at the moment and the future for Irish rugby at 10.

Hmmmm...........

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sin é wrote: The big deal is that a 22-year old kid, new to the international squad felt he had something to contribute to a much more senior team mate. That illustrates to me that this kid is a respected member of the Ireland team. Only an idiot would quote someone they don't respect.

It illustrates that O'Mahony is a go to player even at the age of 22. There is more to making a top class rugby than just playing ability. There are hundreds of lads out there who had great ability, but never made it as a professional player. Hopefully some of his grit and determination will rub off on some of the other members of the team and squad.

What absolute tosh. The article implies none of these things. Ferris did not go to O'Mahony in an hour of need and ask for his advice. O'Mahony simply slapped him on the back and said 'hard luck'. Oh how inspirational! O'Mahony simply must be in the squad with uplifting chat like that. Move over Mandela. Barack Obama, read this newspaper piece, learn from O'Mahony and you will win the election. Mind blowing stuff.

If the water carrier said this to Ferris would you be saying that he was inspirational? Of course not.

Also, now you are saying that players shouldn't be picked on form. Well done Sin. You have shifted the goal posts once again.

None of these absolute nonsense you have spouted has anything to do with whether O'Mahony should be picked on form for the side.

I never claimed Ferris went to POM - I'm saying that POM went to him (not SOB, not Heislip). It shows awareness and that he is a team player and a leader despite his young age and in the presence of some very senior members.

If Ferris quoted the water carrier to the media, I'd say he was inspirational as well.

Nah Jackson is fine, not injured. But i definitely think Sexton is still the best by some way. Jackson is still working out how to vary his game, what options to take and when, how to really control a match. He has all the raw materials of a great 10 and is learning how to put them together. But it will take him time.

I'm somewhat disappointed for him but appreciate he's very young and still growing into the role at Ulster. Of course the same could be said for Henderson and Marshall, neither of whom are first choice for Ulster whilst Jackson is but i'm happy to see PJ learning his trade at Ulster for a season.

I think Madigan has more of a claim to step up but thats been ignored.

Can you refund tickets bought from ticketmaster? I dont want to go to the arg match anymore. Im so disgusted with this squad selection.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can you refund tickets bought from ticketmaster? I dont want to go to the arg match anymore. Im so disgusted with this squad selection.

What were your expectations?

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Can you refund tickets bought from ticketmaster? I dont want to go to the arg match anymore. Im so disgusted with this squad selection.

What were your expectations?

I really did think that there would be change in the squad. I was sure the likes of madigan would get in the squad. I thought DK would be eager to try something new and to try save his job. Just shows what kind of a guy he is. How well does jenno have to play to get into these squads? he is pretty much carrying the whole leinster team in the Rabbo. its just beyond belief.

Chris Henry is included though?

He has brought through Marshall, Kilcoyne and Henderson. I would be critical of some selections myself but it's not a surprise, he's following the same MO he always has. He is at the heart of it quite conservative.

I don't think thats gonna be enough to get you a refund, but I wish you good luck. It is a lot of money to watch a not very good game of rugby if past meetings between the sides and Irelands form book are anything to go by.

Notch wrote:Chris Henry is included though?

He has brought through Marshall, Kilcoyne and Henderson. I would be critical of some selections myself but it's not a surprise, he's following the same MO he always has. He is at the heart of it quite conservative.

I don't think thats gonna be enough to get you a refund, but I wish you good luck. It is a lot of money to watch a not very good game of rugby if past meetings between the sides and Irelands form book are anything to go by.

Actually i got a good price on the tickets 27 euro each for middle tier seats. It will be my first time on the middle tier, so thats something to be excited for i guess that explains how the tickets were sold, because they were at a reasonable price.

Fair enough. I really do think they are going to struggle to shift tickets for that match. Could be around 40000 max.

I have to say, if I was picking the squad, I would have maybe a handful of changes. There's a handful of players who can feel hard done by but I think people are really overreacting.

Christ lads, the Lions tour goes in cycles, sorry if the crystal ball was faulty 12 years ago when the reigning world champions came back from a Test down to win the series, yet have the short sightedness to be a vastly inferior team 12 seasons later. For shame Australia. For shame Lions management.

As for the Irish squad.

A mixed bag. ROG in with neither Keatley (least likely) or Jackson (middlin) Madigan (most likely) is a bad decision imho.

FB will be clarified after this weekends matches, which is fair enough given the injury situation. Felix Jones is probably most likely to get it and he needs a match with Munster not a training squad session with Ireland, so that game time is a shrewd decision, and Earls filling in should Jones be shown to still be off match pace is no disaster, whatever people might think.

The TH prop situation is the oddest though. However you might rate the ones we have, Ross aside, they should all be in camp come Monday. Archer, Hagen, Court, Ross, Fitzpatrick. If they wear 3 on their back we need them scrummaging and learning from the good one we have. Again, as Fitz is returning from an injury lay off, the wisdom of game time is understandable but given the nature of the position, a bit more squad padding would be useful.

May well be wrong, but I see Ryan starting with POC with probably DOC on the bench but preferably Tuohy on the bench. Ive always liked him as a player but DOC (poor hands from the cross kick notwithstanding) has actually become a better rugby player and reminds me of Shane Horgan; there was a man playing his best rugby in his final two seasons without a hope adding to his cap total as the depth and talent on the wing has really grown. Obviously he was slower but his hands, running angles, passing & decision making just got better. And i was NEVER that much of a fan of his. So DOC on the bench or even starting isn't as unjust as some will make out, but ye; he ain't getting younger.

One area where theres not much debate is the tighthead position. The sooner for Irelands sake that they bring in the stricter rules on foreigners the better. Loosehead position is looking a bit héalthier this season.

debaters1 wrote:Christ lads, the Lions tour goes in cycles, sorry if the crystal ball was faulty 12 years ago when the reigning world champions came back from a Test down to win the series, yet have the short sightedness to be a vastly inferior team 12 seasons later. For shame Australia. For shame Lions management.

As for the Irish squad.

A mixed bag. ROG in with neither Keatley (least likely) or Jackson (middlin) Madigan (most likely) is a bad decision imho.

FB will be clarified after this weekends matches, which is fair enough given the injury situation. Felix Jones is probably most likely to get it and he needs a match with Munster not a training squad session with Ireland, so that game time is a shrewd decision, and Earls filling in should Jones be shown to still be off match pace is no disaster, whatever people might think.

The TH prop situation is the oddest though. However you might rate the ones we have, Ross aside, they should all be in camp come Monday. Archer, Hagen, Court, Ross, Fitzpatrick. If they wear 3 on their back we need them scrummaging and learning from the good one we have. Again, as Fitz is returning from an injury lay off, the wisdom of game time is understandable but given the nature of the position, a bit more squad padding would be useful.

May well be wrong, but I see Ryan starting with POC with probably DOC on the bench but preferably Tuohy on the bench. Ive always liked him as a player but DOC (poor hands from the cross kick notwithstanding) has actually become a better rugby player and reminds me of Shane Horgan; there was a man playing his best rugby in his final two seasons without a hope adding to his cap total as the depth and talent on the wing has really grown. Obviously he was slower but his hands, running angles, passing & decision making just got better. And i was NEVER that much of a fan of his. So DOC on the bench or even starting isn't as unjust as some will make out, but ye; he ain't getting younger.

Debaters,
it is true what you say. DOC is giving his last and best effort. He knows its near the end. He, along with ROG & Darcy, will go when the next coach susses them out and finishes their international careers.And BOD's too. But. Please don't compare a World Class player with a donkey. Albeit a loveable, honest and earnest donkey - who has served his country well.

debaters1 wrote:The TH prop situation is the oddest though. However you might rate the ones we have, Ross aside, they should all be in camp come Monday. Archer, Hagen, Court, Ross, Fitzpatrick. If they wear 3 on their back we need them scrummaging and learning from the good one we have. Again, as Fitz is returning from an injury lay off, the wisdom of game time is understandable but given the nature of the position, a bit more squad padding would be useful.

If you bring in 5 THs, you need five hookers, five looseheads, 10 locks and 15 backrows to practice scrummaging and at that one set would be standing around looking on.

Not sure if anyone cares but........

My prefered team against the Boks:

Healy-Best-Ross
Ryan-POC
Ferris-Heaslip-Henry
Reddan-Sexton
McFadden-O'Driscoll
Zebo-Earls-Bowe

Strauss-Court-Fitzpatrick-Tuohy-POM-Marshall-Madigan

Prefered team against Fiji.....

Court-Strauss-Fitzpatrick
Tuohy-Henderson
McLaughlin-POM-Doughall
Marshall-Madigan
Marshall-Cave
Gilroy-Jones-Trimble

Cronin-Kilcoyne-Toner-Henry-Marmion-Jackson-Keatly


Just noticed there that playing against two teams who really like to kick the ball and do it well, we are missing the position that this most affects.......

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Not sure if anyone cares but........

My prefered team against the Boks:

Healy-Best-Ross
Ryan-POC
Ferris-Heaslip-Henry
Reddan-Sexton
McFadden-O'Driscoll
Zebo-Earls-Bowe

Strauss-Court-Fitzpatrick-Tuohy-POM-Marshall-Madigan

Prefered team against Fiji.....

Court-Strauss-Fitzpatrick
Tuohy-Henderson
McLaughlin-POM-Doughall
Marshall-Madigan
Marshall-Cave
Gilroy-Jones-Trimble

Cronin-Kilcoyne-Toner-Henry-Marmion-Jackson-Keatly


Just noticed there that playing against two teams who really like to kick the ball and do it well, we are missing the position that this most affects.......

I'd agree with most of that but I think that Jackson should be ahead of Madigan for the 10 jersey,he's starting all the big games for Ulster and doing well in them so for me he deserves the 1st crack at it.

Pete, all joking aside, while Murray had an awful game against racing, he has been better than Reddan this season, not that either of them have had a huge amount of rugby. And as he has played more games, Marshall is prob the 'form' scrum half, but lack of squad inclusion aside in Marshall's case, suggesting two team sheets where Murray doesn't feature in either 22 is ridiculous.

Gibson, Im unsure as to who you consider the donkey, Shaggy or DOC?! As both men are honest servants (and Shaggy has a trump card of having picked a fight with Steve "I am the Law (rugby)" Walsh.....

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Not sure if anyone cares but........

My prefered team against the Boks:

Healy-Best-Ross
Ryan-POC
Ferris-Heaslip-Henry
Reddan-Sexton
McFadden-O'Driscoll
Zebo-Earls-Bowe

Strauss-Court-Fitzpatrick-Tuohy-POM-Marshall-Madigan

Prefered team against Fiji.....

Court-Strauss-Fitzpatrick
Tuohy-Henderson
McLaughlin-POM-Doughall
Marshall-Madigan
Marshall-Cave
Gilroy-Jones-Trimble

Cronin-Kilcoyne-Toner-Henry-Marmion-Jackson-Keatly


Just noticed there that playing against two teams who really like to kick the ball and do it well, we are missing the position that this most affects.......

I'd agree with most of that but I think that Jackson should be ahead of Madigan for the 10 jersey,he's starting all the big games for Ulster and doing well in them so for me he deserves the 1st crack at it.

+1
Good point

I see Peter O'Mahoney is starting at 7 against Zebre after Kidney said this "Peter O'Mahony will probably get a run at seven this weekend and got a run there last year too."

That's his spot secure despite Henry playing so well all last year and so far this season.

debaters1 wrote:Pete, all joking aside, while Murray had an awful game against racing, he has been better than Reddan this season, not that either of them have had a huge amount of rugby. And as he has played more games, Marshall is prob the 'form' scrum half, but lack of squad inclusion aside in Marshall's case, suggesting two team sheets where Murray doesn't feature in either 22 is ridiculous.

Gibson, Im unsure as to who you consider the donkey, Shaggy or DOC?! As both men are honest servants (and Shaggy has a trump card of having picked a fight with Steve "I am the Law (rugby)" Walsh.....

I don't think Murray is that great a scrumhalf to be honest, I think his balance of physicality to skills has gone too far towards Philips or TOL.

I think Reddan has played well not outstandingly well but well. He did have a bad game against Exeter IMO but has been quite good that game aside. Also you are keeping the Leinster halfback partnership

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I see Peter O'Mahoney is starting at 7 against Zebre after Kidney said this "Peter O'Mahony will probably get a run at seven this weekend and got a run there last year too."

That's his spot secure despite Henry playing so well all last year and so far this season.

More importantly:

Jones is starting 15
Bowe is starting 15
Fitzpatrick is starting 3

Henry is good but POM is a better player now (and last year) and better for the future...

DOD wrote:Henry is good but POM is a better player now (and last year) and better for the future...

Not at 7,if it was at 8 or possibly 6 then absolutely POM has been playing there and done well but Henry was one of the top 7's in Europe last year and has continued that good form.No matter how he plays at the weekend one game against Zebre doesn't stand up to that at all.

debaters1 wrote:Pete, all joking aside, while Murray had an awful game against racing, he has been better than Reddan this season, not that either of them have had a huge amount of rugby. And as he has played more games, Marshall is prob the 'form' scrum half, but lack of squad inclusion aside in Marshall's case, suggesting two team sheets where Murray doesn't feature in either 22 is ridiculous.

Gibson, Im unsure as to who you consider the donkey, Shaggy or DOC?! As both men are honest servants (and Shaggy has a trump card of having picked a fight with Steve "I am the Law (rugby)" Walsh.....

Debaters, tbh bud, ´had a few vinos last night. Love DOC, the man´s mad but he always gives his best for province and country. Impossible not to like and admire him.

Shaggy was possibly the best winger Ireland ever had imo. Even above Hickie. Bowe & Fitz are not in his league.

Henry and then Jennings are the form 7's in Ireland in that order