Irish Autumn Squad-BOD AND BEST OUT!

First topic message reminder :

So Kidney announces his squad today, a 32 man panel against the boks and pumas. More players come into consideration for the Fiji game.

A 31 man Ireland squad including four uncapped players has been named by Ireland Coach Declan Kidney for the 2012 Guinness Series games against South Africa, Fiji and Argentina.

Centre Luke Marshall and forward Iain Henderson named in the panel and who were involved in the Ireland training camp in September are included in the squad as are prop David Kilcoyne and hooker Richardt Strauss, who is now eligible to play for Ireland based on his residency for the past three years.
In addition to the naming of the Ireland squad for the 2012 Guinness Series, there were also changes announced to the makeup of the national coaching staff with current Munster Assistant Coach and former international Anthony Foley joining the Ireland coaching team.

Foley will be now be leading the defence plans and systems allowing Assistant Coach Les Kiss to lead the attack shape for the team as well as continue to coach the backline. Foley will remain working with Munster Rugby outside of the international window. It was also confirmed that Leinster scrum coach, Greg Feek will continue providing his expertise to the Ireland team during competition time.

Commenting on the Guinness Series games and the addition of Anthony Foley, Ireland Coach Declan Kidney said: "We have three incredibly competitive games ahead of us in November and while there have been quite a few injuries and niggles in the early part of the season, it has opened up opportunities for other players to step into the squad. There are world ranking points on offer, so the underlying challenge for us is to work towards retaining and improving our ranking position ahead of the Rugby World Cup pool draw. While that is the end goal, our focus will be getting our preparations right to match the intensity of international games.

"I'm pleased that Anthony has taken up the offer of working with the squad to assist during this vital period in November. His previous experience of working with the team during the last RBS 6 Nations championship was important, but his own abilities and experience were central to bringing him onboard. I would like to thank Rob Penney and Joe Schmidt for being so positive and giving Anthony Foley and Greg (Feek) the scope to be part of the plans that we have."

Anthony Foley said: "I was delighted when Declan approached Rob and me about the possibility of working with the Ireland team again. I enjoyed the opportunity I got during the Six Nations working with the players and I felt once we were all comfortable with the balance between Munster and Ireland, I jumped at the chance. I certainly feel I can contribute positively and when you get the chance to coach with your country, you don't want to pass it up.

Ticket sales have reached over 46,000 for the South Africa game with only a limited number of categories available for purchase from IrishRugby.ie and www.ticketmaster.ie

While the Argentina game is a full month away, ticket sales are at just over 37,000 tickets and are selling quickly and have already surpassed the attendance the last time Argentina visited the Aviva.

Is griffin even in the squad?

I went for Cave but i think it will be Earls in the centre, McFadden and Trimble on the wing and Bowe at full back. Id say no room for Zebo as hell want as much experience in the back line as possible with O'Driscoll out

rodders wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Hmm not sure Rodders there. How many ankle injuries has BOD had when you look back at it? Mainly been shoulder and hamstring hasn't it?

No you are right on that pete, but there is a real worrying trend now with him and POC. They are starting to pick up more and more long term injuries. BOD isn't that long back after missing nearly all of last season and now he'll miss another 2-3 months. That is not good at all. There's a lot of miles on the clock I'm afraid.

I agree with this.
POC and BOD don't have the same durability and ROG is losing out on his kicking distance.
Would be good to have a clean bill oh health, can't remember the last time that happened.

Nope he isn't but put him in anyway because he is an option although not the safest one I guess.

Golden wrote:Is griffin even in the squad?

I went for Cave but i think it will be Earls in the centre, McFadden and Trimble on the wing and Bowe at full back. Id say no room for Zebo as hell want as much experience in the back line as possible with O'Driscoll out

That's a frightening back three in terms of positional play in defence, coupled with a mediocre centre partnership. At least we have er... pace.

Strauss and Cronin are decent cover for Ireland but Best is a massive loss for Ulster. He needs to get his neck right though, he's another who's really been putting his body on the line and is paying the price a bit now.

Notch wrote:

Golden wrote:Is griffin even in the squad?

I went for Cave but i think it will be Earls in the centre, McFadden and Trimble on the wing and Bowe at full back. Id say no room for Zebo as hell want as much experience in the back line as possible with O'Driscoll out

That's a frightening back three in terms of positional play in defence, coupled with a mediocre centre partnership. At least we have er... pace.

Oh god.....imagine that! 2 out of 5 outside backs in their preferred position.

Am I able to get a refund on the Argie tickets I bought????????

Could be this either

11. Trimble/Zebo
12. Darcy
13. Mcfadden
14. Bowe
15. Earls

But SA and Argentina both tend to kick a lot so earls at full back may be a bad choice

Ah balls. I actually thought we might do well this year.

Yeah we need to put our safest fielder at 15 for these games.

Healy apparently has a shoulder complaint I am now gravely concerned over his health and wellbeing

Keep calm and carry on lads. Unkle Deccie will see us right:

1. Healy 2 Strauss 3 Ross
4. Ryan 5 O'Connell
6. Ferris. 8.Heaslip 7. O'Mahoney
9. Murray 10. Sexton
12. D'arcy 13. Earls
11. Zebo 15 Bowe 14. Trimble

Bench: Fitzpatrick, Cronin, Court, O'Callaghan, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, McFadden.

rodders wrote:Keep calm and carry on lads. Unkle Deccie will see us right:

1. Healy 2 Strauss 3 Ross
4. Ryan 5 O'Connell
6. Ferris. 8.Heaslip 7. O'Mahoney
9. Murray 10. Sexton
12. D'arcy 13. Earls
11. Zebo 15 Bowe 14. Trimble

Bench: Fitzpatrick, Cronin, Court, O'Callaghan, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, McFadden.

Are there 23 man squads for this????
I thought Bent was going to be really important to us because he can play both sides well (apparently according to Feek.)

rodders wrote:Keep calm and carry on lads. Unkle Deccie will see us right:

1. Healy 2 Strauss 3 Ross
4. Ryan 5 O'Connell
6. Ferris. 8.Heaslip 7. O'Mahoney
9. Murray 10. Sexton
12. D'arcy 13. Earls
11. Zebo 15 Bowe 14. Trimble

Bench: Fitzpatrick, Cronin, Court, O'Callaghan, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, McFadden.

Baby jesus wept.

Also, all these injuries and you still can't find a place for O'Gara? Hang your head in shame Rodders. I mean come on, he has more pace than Cave and better defence than McFadden. He is a shoe in!

I'd like to see Griffin at 13 but he isn't in the squad.

23-man squads Pete.

Ireland's average cap ratio just dropped through the floor.

Could be an interesting Autumn series and results.......

South Africa Walking Wounded 6 - 3 Ireland Hardly Ables

Notch wrote:23-man squads Pete.

Thank jeebus for that...my credibility as a top tier 606v2 poster was on the line there.

Notch wrote:23-man squads Pete.

Merci.

That helps matters for us I think. Although, the Argies and Pumas will have much greater strength in their replacements than we do I guess

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:23-man squads Pete.

Thank jeebus for that...my credibility as a top tier 606v2 poster was on the line there.

Oh Rodders. You are just precious. You must let me paint you

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:23-man squads Pete.

Thank jeebus for that...my credibility as a top tier 606v2 poster was on the line there.

Oh Rodders. You are just precious. You must let me paint you

Wow that is kinda creepy

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:23-man squads Pete.

Thank jeebus for that...my credibility as a top tier 606v2 poster was on the line there.

Oh Rodders. You are just precious. You must let me paint you

Gloss or emulsion?

Ronseal would probably work best.

Real shame about BOD and Best as Ireland at full strength were starting to look a good side on paper. In fairness the pack doesn't look to bad for you but the backs are definitely struggling!

1.Healy
2.Strauss
3.Ross
4.POC
5.Ryan
6.Ferris
7.O'Mahony
8.Heaslip

9.Murray
10.Sexton

Isn't really a bad 1-10 at all (hell as an England fan I'd love to have any of Ferris,Heaslip,POC,Healy or Sexton at the moment!)

But then 11.Trimble 12.D'arcy 13.Earls 14.Macfadden 15.Bowe doesn't look great to say the least.

At least the shortage of backs and absence of BOD gives Kidney an excuse to tell everyone not to pass again!

We can probably just about manage without BOD and Best, especially against SA, who have had a lot of injuries themselves. I will get very worried if POC goes down though.

On Best, iirc this is the second neck injury he has had in the last few years, and that is quite worrying, especially for hooker.

I'd play Earls at full back, Cave in the centre, but I think there is a decent chance we will see Jones drafted into the squad after this weekend. Would not be very happy with Jones starting there against SA though as they have a great kicking game and Jones was in poor form before he got the injury, and his position was all over the place. Of the players we have available, Earls is the most comfortable, and competent, in terms of positioning left, but with Bod out I expect him to play at 13.

This also means that there is no chance of Darcy not starting at 12.

Darcy is the form 12 in R&B country so no harm there.

Mickado wrote:Darcy is the form 12 in R&B country so no harm there.

Not to start any rants or arguments on this thread again, Paddy Wallace is the form 12 at the moment, but the game plan for ulster is so much different than that of Ireland at the moment he would be wasted there (as usual) I fear the same fate may await young marshal too.

I was hoping Bowe would play centre but I don't think he and Darcy would work well together for some reason.

I hope Cave gets 13 now

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I was hoping Bowe would play centre but I don't think he and Darcy would work well together for some reason.

I hope Cave gets 13 now

I know that Bowe gets pushed forward for 13, and atm 15, but hes a wing and I think he should be left there. He had one excellent game at 13 for the Lions, but since then he has looked iffy there in limited appearances in that position for the Ospreys, and his positioning is all over the place at 15. Cave at 13, and Earls at 15, makes the most sense, but, with Kidney, there isn't a hope we will actually see that.

Edit; Also with your poll, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Griffin currently injured, and Marshall is not a 13?

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I was hoping Bowe would play centre but I don't think he and Darcy would work well together for some reason.

I hope Cave gets 13 now

I know that Bowe gets pushed forward for 13, and atm 15, but hes a wing and I think he should be left there. He had one excellent game at 13 for the Lions, but since then he has looked iffy there in limited appearances in that position for the Ospreys, and his positioning is all over the place at 15. Cave at 13, and Earls at 15, makes the most sense, but, with Kidney, there isn't a hope we will actually see that.

I wouldn't be surprising to see O'Gara-Sexton-Earls axis or something along those lines. Sexton has more minutes at 12 than Cave at 13. Well thats just good coaching that is.

Also I just gave Paddy Wallace a solar charger for his phone in case he's on the beach again when Kidney decides to play him against Argentina. That way the whole fiasco of the New Zealand third test debacle won't be solely his fault again as Sin so rightly informed us.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I was hoping Bowe would play centre but I don't think he and Darcy would work well together for some reason.

I hope Cave gets 13 now

I know that Bowe gets pushed forward for 13, and atm 15, but hes a wing and I think he should be left there. He had one excellent game at 13 for the Lions, but since then he has looked iffy there in limited appearances in that position for the Ospreys, and his positioning is all over the place at 15. Cave at 13, and Earls at 15, makes the most sense, but, with Kidney, there isn't a hope we will actually see that.

I wouldn't be surprising to see O'Gara-Sexton-Earls axis or something along those lines. Sexton has more minutes at 12 than Cave at 13. Well thats just good coaching that is.

Also I just gave Paddy Wallace a solar charger for his phone in case he's on the beach again when Kidney decides to play him against Argentina. That way the whole fiasco of the New Zealand third test debacle won't be solely his fault again as Sin so rightly informed us.

I'm actually quite worried about the prospect of Rog starting, I would be excited by a Sexton Earls partnership, if that meant Jackson was at 10, but god the thought of Rog being involved is appalling.

Also there seems to be no indications of whether Earls is actually fully fit or not, I saw pictures of him training yesterday but he has only played 2(?) games this year.

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. Bowe
13. J Murphy
14. Trimble
15. Jones

If Ireland are going to lose to SA, may as well have some fun doing it.

Pot Hale wrote:9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. Bowe
13. J Murphy
14. Trimble
15. Jones

If Ireland are going to lose to SA, may as well have some fun doing it.

Some player that Trimble fella.

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I was hoping Bowe would play centre but I don't think he and Darcy would work well together for some reason.

I hope Cave gets 13 now

I know that Bowe gets pushed forward for 13, and atm 15, but hes a wing and I think he should be left there. He had one excellent game at 13 for the Lions, but since then he has looked iffy there in limited appearances in that position for the Ospreys, and his positioning is all over the place at 15. Cave at 13, and Earls at 15, makes the most sense, but, with Kidney, there isn't a hope we will actually see that.

Edit; Also with your poll, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Griffin currently injured, and Marshall is not a 13?

I think Bowe would be a good option at centre myself, I know he has very little time game time there I am more saying that his attributes I believe would be well suited to playing there.

Griffin isn't injured and Marshall is mainly a 12 but I've seen him play 15 and I thought 13 could easily be mistaken on this though. either way it was a long shot.

I really don't want to see ROG and I really don't want to see Sexton at 12 and I really don't want to see Earls at 13.

Hoping Cave gets in there now

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I was hoping Bowe would play centre but I don't think he and Darcy would work well together for some reason.

I hope Cave gets 13 now

I know that Bowe gets pushed forward for 13, and atm 15, but hes a wing and I think he should be left there. He had one excellent game at 13 for the Lions, but since then he has looked iffy there in limited appearances in that position for the Ospreys, and his positioning is all over the place at 15. Cave at 13, and Earls at 15, makes the most sense, but, with Kidney, there isn't a hope we will actually see that.

Edit; Also with your poll, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Griffin currently injured, and Marshall is not a 13?

I think Bowe would be a good option at centre myself, I know he has very little time game time there I am more saying that his attributes I believe would be well suited to playing there.

Griffin isn't injured and Marshall is mainly a 12 but I've seen him play 15 and I thought 13 could easily be mistaken on this though. either way it was a long shot.

I really don't want to see ROG and I really don't want to see Sexton at 12 and I really don't want to see Earls at 13.

Hoping Cave gets in there now

Griffin definitely missed last week because of injury.

My ideal team now with all the injuries and question marks over form

15. Earls
14. Bowe
13. Cave
12. D'Arcy
11. Trimble
10. Sexton
9. Reddan

8. Heaslip
7. Henry
6. Ferris
5. POC
4. Tuohy
3. Ross
2. Strauss
1. Healy

16. Cronin 17. Court 18. Fitzpatrick 19. Ryan 20. O'Mahoney 21. P Marshall 22. Jackson 23. Zebo

Earls at 15, as he has actually played international rugby there...
Cave at 13 as he is the best fit 13 in Ireland at the minute.
Reddan with his Leinster partner
Strauss is an able deputy to Best
Tough between DOC, Ryan and Tuohy but Dan sneaks it due to actually playing in his proper position all year, whilst under extreme pressure from Stevenson.
O'Mahoney great bench cover
Jackson is the next best 10 in Ireland and is consistently playing good rugby. Small P is the best 9 in Ireland at the minute and deserves his shot.

we are assuming Ferris and earls are fit here. Havent heard anything to suggest keith is fit although Ulster did say Ferris wasnt risked last week as opposed to him still being injured.

That is scary stuff actually if he isn't fit one of Madigan and Jones will be called up.

Standulstermen wrote:we are assuming Ferris and earls are fit here. Havent heard anything to suggest keith is fit although Ulster did say Ferris wasnt risked last week as opposed to him still being injured.

Earls was involved in full training this week, so you would expect him to be fully fit by next weekend.

Justin our 'form' 12 issue. D'arcy has had how many games? He was good against the scarlets but I thought that was his first game. Similarly I think paddy was really good against Cardiff but has been only ok since.
Marshall hasn't been starting but has made positive contributions in his cameos.
JJ has played 1 game
Downey is bust I believe but was relatively dodgy prior to it
McSharry has been good but is limited. Was next to anonymous at ravenhill.

Our options here aren't great

The indo are saying POC is also carrying an injury and probably won't be made captian to allow him to concentrate on getting up to match fitness. Sexton or Heaalip are expected to take the captaincy.

Standulstermen wrote:Justin our 'form' 12 issue. D'arcy has had how many games? He was good against the scarlets but I thought that was his first game. Similarly I think paddy was really good against Cardiff but has been only ok since.
Marshall hasn't been starting but has made positive contributions in his cameos.
JJ has played 1 game
Downey is bust I believe but was relatively dodgy prior to it
McSharry has been good but is limited. Was next to anonymous at ravenhill.

Our options here aren't great

Well I don't disagree with that but its a relative thing isn't it? I mean to me there are more options than there have been in a while, but as you say not really stand out options.

The bold option would be to throw Luke Marshall straight in. He's looked excellent for Ulster, when he's came on. He's physically solid, has great hands, a nice step and accelleration and brings a bit of x-factor.

D'arcy is the solid option. He has been in decent form but its worth noting that he never looks as confident when paired with someone other than O'Driscoll.

For me its a case that BOD is out so Kidney needs to pick his 13 and pick an inside centre to compliment him.

I don't think there is a single coach in the Irish set up who understands back play well so I wouldn't be too optimistic about seeing any improvements on our stuttering attacking play in the near future.

The centre combination is a bit of a red herring though because the problems start at halfback.

Sexton and Murray will be paired together so we'll have a slowish passing, physical,breaking scrumhalf paired with an instinctive running fly-half, who thrives on quick ball and standing flat, meaning poor quality ball being shipped too a small, slow inside centre who can't break the gainline anymore, who in turn will be partnered with a lightweight utility back/come winger who thrives on broken field running. O'Brien and Ferris probably too will be missing leaving us short of good carriers to bail us out.

Net result is phase after phase of struggling to get across the gainline and ,if we don't get turned over first, we'll be forced into booting the ball away aimlessly to the Boks and Puma's,two up and under specialists, who in turn will hoof it back with interest...... oh yeah and to add icing on the cake we've no fullback.....

Good job Deccie

Heard a great stat on that talking rugby podcast there Rodders, Sexton and Reddan have been picked together in over 30 match day squads in their career (he gave the exact number, can’t remember it) and the average amount of gametime they’ve got is 8 minutes per match. 6 HC’s between them, 8 mins per match.

I've been thinking about it. I really don't mind which centres get picked.

Mick its not rocket science to know that a proven club combination is likely to function better.

The coaching set up is a disaster. Was looking at it last night. You have 3 forward orientated coaches in there - Smal, Feek and now Foley - and an ex RL player defence specialist - Les Kiss, who is now responsible for attacking play.

That is madness. The whole set up is a shambles.

rodders wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:Justin our 'form' 12 issue. D'arcy has had how many games? He was good against the scarlets but I thought that was his first game. Similarly I think paddy was really good against Cardiff but has been only ok since.
Marshall hasn't been starting but has made positive contributions in his cameos.
JJ has played 1 game
Downey is bust I believe but was relatively dodgy prior to it
McSharry has been good but is limited. Was next to anonymous at ravenhill.

Our options here aren't great

Well I don't disagree with that but its a relative thing isn't it? I mean to me there are more options than there have been in a while, but as you say not really stand out options.

The bold option would be to throw Luke Marshall straight in. He's looked excellent for Ulster, when he's came on. He's physically solid, has great hands, a nice step and accelleration and brings a bit of x-factor.

D'arcy is the solid option. He has been in decent form but its worth noting that he never looks as confident when paired with someone other than O'Driscoll.

For me its a case that BOD is out so Kidney needs to pick his 13 and pick an inside centre to compliment him.

I don't think there is a single coach in the Irish set up who understands back play well so I wouldn't be too optimistic about seeing any improvements on our stuttering attacking play in the near future.

The centre combination is a bit of a red herring though because the problems start at halfback.

Sexton and Murray will be paired together so we'll have a slowish passing, physical,breaking scrumhalf paired with an instinctive running fly-half, who thrives on quick ball and standing flat, meaning poor quality ball being shipped too a small, slow inside centre who can't break the gainline anymore, who in turn will be partnered with a lightweight utility back/come winger who thrives on broken field running. O'Brien and Ferris probably too will be missing leaving us short of good carriers to bail us out.

Net result is phase after phase of struggling to get across the gainline and ,if we don't get turned over first, we'll be forced into booting the ball away aimlessly to the Boks and Puma's,two up and under specialists, who in turn will hoof it back with interest...... oh yeah and to add icing on the cake we've no fullback.....

Good job Deccie

McFadden was playing great stuff at 12 a few weeks ago. Marshall would be great to see.

Totally agree with the tactical summary rodders, slow ball to small backs is game over. I don't understand why kidney doesn't see it.
Mick that star is truly terrifying!

If poc is injured now too........well...

Could the combinations game play off?

01 Healy
02 Strauss
03 Ross
04 Ryan
05 O'Connell
06 Ferris
07 Jennings
08 Heaslip
09 Reddan
10 Sexton
11 Earls
12 Marshall
13 Cave
14 Bowe
15 Jones

Apart from Bowe and Ferris thats basiscally picked off combinations

Deccie Out!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Deccie Out!

If you rearrange this you get "Coed Cutie"

Are you trying to tell us your real feelings for Elmer Fudd

red_stag wrote:Could the combinations game play off?

01 Healy
02 Strauss
03 Ross
04 Ryan
05 O'Connell
06 Ferris
07 Jennings
08 Heaslip
09 Reddan
10 Sexton
11 Earls
12 Marshall
13 Cave
14 Bowe
15 Jones

Apart from Bowe and Ferris thats basiscally picked off combinations

Not an awful team that. Think Marshall has a chance in the argie game depending on how the previous 2 went for him and Darcy/mcfadden

Well stag not sure about the personell but selection is about picking the best team, not necessarily the best individual players....not that Deccie does either of course.

I don't think Ferris or POC will make it so I'd like to see something like...

1 Healy 2 Strauss 3 Ross
5 Ryan 4 Touhy
6 Henderson 8 Heaslip (c) 7 Henry
9 Murray 10 Sexton
11 Zebo 12 D'arcy 13 Bowe 14 Trimble
15 Earls

Bench: Court, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, O'Callaghan, McLaughlin/POM, Reddan, Jackson, McFadden

Reasons:

All Leinster front row. Picks itself with Best out.

Ryan and Touhy is a good combination of lineout ability, workrate, power and athleticism. Touhy to bind at TH and add power. O'Callaghan brings experience from the bench.

Henderson at 6 adds an extra ineout option as well as size, physicality and carrying ability in Ferris absence.

Bowe brings pace and power to the midfield. Trimble brings power on the right and links well with Bowe, Zebo and Earls bring try scoring ability and broken field running threat. D'arcy links well with Sexton and adds experience.

There you go Rod-squad Irish select XV 60 - Springboks 3

A big issue with Ireland is that a lot of our ball dies at 12. This isn't a criticism of D'arcy but in essence he is now a 12 that will truck it up, get some hard yards and recycle. McFadden is somewhat similar, albeit with extra zip. His awareness is probably worse than d'arces though.

Marshall is great as a 2nd pivot, operating behind screen runners at ulster. Also has the physicality but it would be a massive call given that he is currently number 2 in his province. Also would a 2nd playmaker be needed given the way we play at the minute?

I genuinely don't know what is best. I know D'arcy will be picked at 12. I know I would prefer to see a different partnership but it will be Murray, sexton, D'arcy, ? through the midfield