Irish Autumn Squad-BOD AND BEST OUT!

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 24 Oct 2012, 10:38 am

First topic message reminder :

So Kidney announces his squad today, a 32 man panel against the boks and pumas. More players come into consideration for the Fiji game.

A 31 man Ireland squad including four uncapped players has been named by Ireland Coach Declan Kidney for the 2012 Guinness Series games against South Africa, Fiji and Argentina.

Centre Luke Marshall and forward Iain Henderson named in the panel and who were involved in the Ireland training camp in September are included in the squad as are prop David Kilcoyne and hooker Richardt Strauss, who is now eligible to play for Ireland based on his residency for the past three years.
In addition to the naming of the Ireland squad for the 2012 Guinness Series, there were also changes announced to the makeup of the national coaching staff with current Munster Assistant Coach and former international Anthony Foley joining the Ireland coaching team.

Foley will be now be leading the defence plans and systems allowing Assistant Coach Les Kiss to lead the attack shape for the team as well as continue to coach the backline. Foley will remain working with Munster Rugby outside of the international window. It was also confirmed that Leinster scrum coach, Greg Feek will continue providing his expertise to the Ireland team during competition time.

Commenting on the Guinness Series games and the addition of Anthony Foley, Ireland Coach Declan Kidney said: "We have three incredibly competitive games ahead of us in November and while there have been quite a few injuries and niggles in the early part of the season, it has opened up opportunities for other players to step into the squad. There are world ranking points on offer, so the underlying challenge for us is to work towards retaining and improving our ranking position ahead of the Rugby World Cup pool draw. While that is the end goal, our focus will be getting our preparations right to match the intensity of international games.

"I'm pleased that Anthony has taken up the offer of working with the squad to assist during this vital period in November. His previous experience of working with the team during the last RBS 6 Nations championship was important, but his own abilities and experience were central to bringing him onboard. I would like to thank Rob Penney and Joe Schmidt for being so positive and giving Anthony Foley and Greg (Feek) the scope to be part of the plans that we have."

Anthony Foley said: "I was delighted when Declan approached Rob and me about the possibility of working with the Ireland team again. I enjoyed the opportunity I got during the Six Nations working with the players and I felt once we were all comfortable with the balance between Munster and Ireland, I jumped at the chance. I certainly feel I can contribute positively and when you get the chance to coach with your country, you don't want to pass it up.

Ticket sales have reached over 46,000 for the South Africa game with only a limited number of categories available for purchase from IrishRugby.ie and www.ticketmaster.ie

While the Argentina game is a full month away, ticket sales are at just over 37,000 tickets and are selling quickly and have already surpassed the attendance the last time Argentina visited the Aviva.

Irish Rugby Squad (Guinness Series 2012)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/62)
Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/49)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/3)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster/29)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/69)
Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster/32)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster/35)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/33)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster/50)
Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster)*
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/2)
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)*
John Muldoon (Galwegians/Connacht/3)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/12)
Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/4)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster/14)
Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/5)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/88)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster/85)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/120) Captain
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/124
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/7)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/45)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/22)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/21)
Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/32)
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)*
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster/48)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster/5)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/1)

Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/21 caps)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) *
Paul Marshall (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) *
Tiernan O'Halloran (Buccaneers/Connacht) *
Michael Bent (Leinster) *
Declan Fitzpatrick (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/2)

N.B. *denotes uncapped player

O'DRISCOLL and BEST out.

by red_stag Wed 31 Oct 2012, 10:05 am

Are Ferris and O'Connell injured? Ouch for us.

Not a bad team all things considered.

I dont see there is a team that Kidney can pick that will please anyone if we are indeed missing Rory Best, Stephen Ferris, Rob Kearney, Brian O'Driscoll, Sean O'Brien and Paul O'Connell.

Probably have our 5 best players in there.

by bluestonevedder Wed 31 Oct 2012, 10:18 am

Is O'Brien out for the entire AI series? I thought he was out of action for 4 months after a hip op, and that was in June...? Or am I missing something?

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 10:24 am

I actually think its a blessing in disguise Stag, not that I want to see anyone injured.

Kidney has been far too reliant on a core group of players and this is a great opportunity for the guys who are playing well for their provinces - Chris Henry, Dan Touhy, Donacha Ryan, Strauss, Trimble, Heaslip, Bowe, Sexton etc. - to step up and take a more senior role.

I have a feeling we might actually play better without those guys IF by some fluke Kidney gets his selection right and doesn't jettison in guys like Felix Jones and ROG who are out of sorts and not 100% fit. If Ferris isn't 100% leave him out too.

The problem is the men in blazers want the big names out there, fit or not, to boost ticket sales.

by red_stag Wed 31 Oct 2012, 10:31 am

I do think we could still take all three wins but there will be grumbling about the team regardless.

The team I think will play:

01 Cian Healy
02 Richardt Strauss
03 Mike Ross
04
05 Donnacha Ryan
06
07
08 Jamie Heaslip
09
10 Jonathan Sexton
11
12
13
14
15

These would be the only places I could confidently call. We could see Donnacha O'Callaghan, Kevin McLaughlin, Peter O'Mahony, Eoin Reddan, Simon Zebo, Luke Marshall, Keith Earls, Fergus McFadden and Felix Jones come in.

Equally we could see Dan Tuohy, Iain Henderson, Peter O'Mahony, Conor Murray, Andrew Trimble, Gordon Darcy, Darren Cave, Craig Gilroy and Tommy Bowe.

Its very hard to tell.

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 10:40 am

Well I'd imagine we'll see a mish mash stag. You know as well as I do that Kidney will be wary of picking too many from the same province for fear of criticism.

The best players and combinations should be picked full stop, and if that favours some provinces more than others, then tough.....

The way things are now though I think we should get a good blend, bar Connacht, but my concern is that its the wrong guys who will get selected.

Just pick the bloody best team Kidney and get them to play good rugby! ... Jeebus man its not rocket science! censored

by red_stag Wed 31 Oct 2012, 10:48 am

rodders wrote:Just pick the bloody best team Kidney and get them to play good rugby! ... Jeebus man its not rocket science!

Ah coming around to my way of thinking Rodders!!

Always pick your best team and think no further than one tournament at a time.

by Standulstermen Wed 31 Oct 2012, 10:52 am

If POC is out I would like to see Tuohy picked alongside Ryan. I would them down and show them the 3rd test in NZ. Then I would show them the 2nd and point out if they can perform like that away to NZ they should bloody well be doing it at home to SA.

by SecretFly Wed 31 Oct 2012, 11:05 am

Best team? So we're all experts and have come to a concensus on what it is? We can't even pick a 13 and we're asking Kidney to pick 14 more numbers to join him??? Laugh

The Halloween 15 - ghosts coz nobody can actually choose them

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 31 Oct 2012, 11:11 am

Standulstermen wrote:If POC is out I would like to see Tuohy picked alongside Ryan. I would them down and show them the 3rd test in NZ. Then I would show them the 2nd and point out if they can perform like that away to NZ they should bloody well be doing it at home to SA.

+1

I thought along with Kearney, Healy and O'Brien are lock pairing were some saving graces from that tour, particularly Ryan he was player of the tour for us IMO.

It really disappoints me that whenever I think of what the team will be or when I am reading the teams of you guys we all have Sexton, Jackson and Madigan vying for the 10 and 22 jersey.

I am going to be so disappointed in our team if Kidney picks ROG on the bench, that will really demoralise me I think.

by **Notch** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I was hoping Bowe would play centre but I don't think he and Darcy would work well together for some reason.

I hope Cave gets 13 now

Marshall hasn't yet reached the standard to start a test match- not managing to oust Paddy Wallace from the Ulster 12 shirt is proof of that- but whats exciting about him is he's got the full skill set of Wallace and is about 2 stone heavier I think. So once he gets his decision making and game awareness up to the standard of Wallace I think he'll be as good a ball player and have a significant physical advantage over Paddy which is why I think he'll go on to have a more distinguished Ireland career.

He still doesn't quite yet have the rugby intelligence and judgement of when to pass/offload/step that Wallace has. It will come in time. He was basically crashing up bad ball in our first three games when we weren't getting much clean possession to attack with and did that very well. He also put in some monstrous clearance kicks and is a competent second boot in the backs outside 10. Recently he's been coming off the bench and picking some lovely running lines and support lines in games where our pack has been going forward. His execution of passing/offloading is what needs work but we've seen him demonstrate at lower levels he's a skillful ball player and I think with time we'll see him show that too.

The big advantage Paddy Wallace holds over him is vision. Vision doesn't help Paddy Wallace when he's playing for Ireland and is asked to make yards through players who are several stone heavier- his footwork does that for Ulster a LOT but organised international defences give up a lot less than Pro12 or HC and he can't make the same gainline successes. Marshall is more suited to that role.

But Marshall won't get ahead of Wallace in the Ulster pecking order unless he can be the same creative force in the 12 jersey and understand how to bring the guys around him into the game.

by red_stag Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:11 pm

I hope Paddy Wallace doesnt go on holidays over the Halloween season. He might get a phone call.

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:14 pm

He's faster than Wallace too Notch. He's still learning at provincial level but he looks to have the full skill set. Big, strong, quick, great skills, vision. Has a good kicking game too.

I don't think any of the other guys -Wallace, D'arcy - could have set up that try Pienaar scored against Castres. Excellent break and the timing of that pass was sublime, simple stuff but the amount of Irish international backs I've seen butcher these chances is unreal.

by **Notch** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:18 pm

Yeah, don't worry. The IRFU have given him a special mobile charger. They also given him a special Red Situation Room phone as seen in various missile crisis and diplomatic showdowns.

Spoiler:

Finally, Declan Kidney has created a stencil of a man bleeding profusely from the head which will be attached to a massive halogen lamp on top of Carton House. Should all else fail he can signal that way.

He's the inside centre Ireland deserves... but not the one it needs right now. So we'll give him anonymous internet abuse because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. Paddy Wallace.

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:26 pm

red_stag wrote:I hope Paddy Wallace doesnt go on holidays over the Halloween season. He might get a phone call.

Heelllllllooooo Padddddyyyyy.......

Spoiler:

by Rava Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:28 pm

Notch wrote:Yeah, don't worry. The IRFU have given him a special mobile charger. They also given him a special Red Situation Room phone as seen in various missile crisis and diplomatic showdowns.

Spoiler:

Finally, Declan Kidney has created a stencil of a man bleeding profusely from the head which will be attached to a massive halogen lamp on top of Carton House. Should all else fail he can signal that way.

He's the inside centre Ireland deserves... but not the one it needs right now. So we'll give him anonymous internet abuse because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. Paddy Wallace.

AMEN!!

by Mickado Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm

Notch wrote:Yeah, don't worry. The IRFU have given him a special mobile charger. They also given him a special Red Situation Room phone as seen in various missile crisis and diplomatic showdowns.

Spoiler:

Finally, Declan Kidney has created a stencil of a man bleeding profusely from the head which will be attached to a massive halogen lamp on top of Carton House. Should all else fail he can signal that way.

He's the inside centre Ireland deserves... but not the one it needs right now. So we'll give him anonymous internet abuse because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. Paddy Wallace.

by **Notch** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:52 pm

See O'Connell is struggling with a back problem?

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/27589.php

Kidney has identified in the past Best, POC, ROG and BOD as his leaders. Reading this I have horrible feeling that if O'Connell is out he'll start with ROG as 10 and Captain.

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 12:57 pm

All the papers are suggesting it will be Heaslip or Sexton.

Besides ROG is injured anyways. Stop the scare mongering Notch! Shocked

by Standulstermen Wed 31 Oct 2012, 1:20 pm

Ferris, Gilroy and small parcel released.

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 1:25 pm

Glad to hear it Stand. Makes sense to retain Marshall and Cave given the centre situation.

Good that Gilroy will get a chance at Ulster with the boyos away.

by ME-109 Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:03 pm

Seeing as the West Brit and Nordie brigade are all in agreement here I just thought I would throw in my thrupenny bit...

Earls as OC Cave is not intl standard. Darcy will play IC. Zebo, Bowe and it doesnt matter a toss who is FB.

Second Row on form should be DOC and POC,

Backrow Ferris, POM, Heaslip.

by red_stag Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:08 pm

Is Earls fit?

by SecretFly Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:10 pm

Is O'Connell fit?

by red_stag Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:12 pm

Is Ferris fit?

by red_stag Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:12 pm

Is Best fat?

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:13 pm

Is Sin E fit?

by SecretFly Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:15 pm

Gerry Thornley spoke too soon...even Kidney can't give him a 'cert' list at this point in time.

Bent must be having a private few laughs to himself. "I could'a brought a few more of me mates with me if I'da known, boss"

by SecretFly Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:17 pm

Is Milla Jovovich fit?

oh sorry, that was ................ Whistle

...misplaced. I think she is though, just in case Thormley mentions her.

by red_stag Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:27 pm

An interesting piece - http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2012/1031/343744-odriscolls-absence-means-the-future-is-now/

Our 10 options at centre discussed by RTE.

- Darcy
- Bowe
- Earls
- Sexton
- McFadden
- Downey
- Cave
- Marshall
- Trimble
- Wallace

by Rava Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:37 pm

DOD wrote:Seeing as the West Brit and Nordie brigade are all in agreement here I just thought I would throw in my thrupenny bit...

Earls (Munster) as OC Cave is not intl standard. Darcy will play IC. Zebo (Munster), Bowe and it doesnt matter a toss who is FB.

Second Row on form should be DOC (Munster) and POC (Munster),

Backrow Ferris, POM (Munster), Heaslip.

Just a wee bit of clarification for those of you who don't know where DOD's allegiances lie.

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:38 pm

Kidney had a wee pre-emptive strike there regarding any potential negative press reaction to selecting Bent....

He said something along the lines of him being the most match fit prop available based on the lack of gametime the other guys are getting....

BOOM take that Anscombe and Penney! Ok!

by Mickado Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:50 pm

Man, this could be embarrassing if this lad is crap...

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 2:51 pm

Embarressing for you maybe...he's a Leinsterman... Wink

by SecretFly Wed 31 Oct 2012, 3:02 pm

And Court's an Aussie...and getting us Irish into trouble on another thread too!!! Tell him to mind his manners, rodders!

by Captain Charisma Wed 31 Oct 2012, 3:07 pm

I'd go with...........

Bowe
Trimble
Earls
McFadden
Zebo
Sexton
Marshall
Healy
Strauss
Ross
D Ryan
POC
Ferris
Henry
Heaslip (He's actually playing well maybe SOB just overshadowed him)

Sherry
Court
Kilcoyne(Is their 2 props as subs now?)
Touhy
O Mahoney
Reddan
Jackson
D'arcy .

by MrsP Wed 31 Oct 2012, 3:09 pm

SecretFly wrote:And Court's an Aussie...and getting us Irish into trouble on another thread too!!! Tell him to mind his manners, rodders!

I thought it had been agreed that the problem with Court was that he was a forward, no?

by **rodders** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 3:10 pm

They don't like their Irish or Ozzies down in the valleys...Court has no chance! Wink

by dublin_dave Wed 31 Oct 2012, 5:34 pm

denis hurley called up.

3 wins out of 3 get on it at a local bookies.

3-0, 6-3 and 12-6. Entertainment deccie style. i for one cannot wait

by mrsuperclear Wed 31 Oct 2012, 5:58 pm

dublin_dave wrote:denis hurley called up.

3 wins out of 3 get on it at a local bookies.

3-0, 6-3 and 12-6. Entertainment deccie style. i for one cannot wait

That has to be some sick joke. Sad

by dublin_dave Wed 31 Oct 2012, 6:25 pm

if ferris is out we could see the below team

bowe,trimble,earls,darcy,zebo,sexton,murray,heaslip,omahony,ryan,oconnell,ocallaghan,ross,strauss,healy.

subs- court,bent,cronin, mclaughlin,henry, reddan,rog, mcfadden (or hurley)

i am not excited about these games. even if we saw a form team take the field with our 3 forward orientated coaches and rugby league backs coach i can see us trying to out puke rugby two puke rugby merchants who are better at it than us.

were doomed i tell you doomed.

by LeinsterFan4life Wed 31 Oct 2012, 6:46 pm

Will Hurley start at full back? I hope bowe isnt there. He would be wasted.

by aucklandlaurie Wed 31 Oct 2012, 6:59 pm

From a neutral point of view.

I dont think the absence of BOD is entirely a bad thing for the Irish team, I dont wish to speak disrespectfully one of your greatest players, but sometimes his role and standing in the team gives one the impression that it has a "limiting effect" on the players around him.

Bottom line, Irelands International players, have to become accustomed and learn to playing Internationals without BOD, he's not going to be there forever.

by red_stag Wed 31 Oct 2012, 7:04 pm

Auckland,

Missing BOD on his own could be a good thing.

However if you are missing Rob Kearney, Sean O'Brien, Rory Best, Paul O'Connell and Stephen Ferris would be catastrophic.

by Morgannwg Wed 31 Oct 2012, 7:15 pm

Earls is back 3 and to an extent, fly-half cover. That's where I think he is best suited anyway. Can't think of anyone playing there (13) in Ireland regulary, who do Ulster have?

However if you are missing Rob Kearney, Sean O'Brien, Rory Best, Paul O'Connell and Stephen Ferris would be catastrophic.

Yeah I wouldn't bet on getting the IRB top seeding (4th place) without any of those. Could be a blessing though, allowing you the chance to find some long-term replacements.

by aucklandlaurie Wed 31 Oct 2012, 7:16 pm

Yes, Staggy in turn that is also correct.

But did you not also have a number of players out when you came down here in June? and new players will be all the better off and wiser for being given the opportunity and experience.

by Rava Wed 31 Oct 2012, 7:24 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote: Yes, Staggy in turn that is also correct.

But did you not also have a number of players out when you came down here in June? and new players will be all the better off and wiser for being given the opportunity and experience.

I know Auck. Just can't get that third test out of my head. Crying or Very sad

by aucklandlaurie Wed 31 Oct 2012, 7:29 pm

Rava

It'll be a long time before you ever see Ireland beaten 60- nil again, On that day Ireland just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

by **profitius** Wed 31 Oct 2012, 7:40 pm

Ireland reminds me of Munster last season. Everything seems to be going stale. Munster have moved on and Rob Penney is doing a very good job in turning Munster around. Next season I'd like to see something similar with Ireland, someone come into the Ireland setup and rebuild from the bottom with an eye on the 2015 world cup. The players coming through now are the best we've ever had so no doubt Ireland will be stronger in the 2015 world cup.

In the meantime Kidney is beavering away doing what he does but unless we see a dramatic upturn in form it looks like the end of the line for Deccie. Joe schmidt/Jonno Gibbs would be my favourites to take over.

by Hookisms and Hyperbole Wed 31 Oct 2012, 8:25 pm

Tick Tock Tick Tock, what is the time on the Kidney clock? 202 days left I'm afraid.

These injuries will give Kidney apologists yet another excuse to survive with Thornley Goebbels in charge of official propaganda. I'd like the IRFU to appoint Connor O'Shea as a short of director of rugby and let his choose whoever he wants as the coaching staff. Hell even some of those dreadful Welsh coaches in charge of their regions could do a better job. Schmidt will be away home at that stage as I think the missus has put the pressure on that she wants home and wants the children educated in New Zealand.

by Gibson Wed 31 Oct 2012, 8:50 pm

Im more concerned about BOD missing for Leinster. Not for Ireland. And not for selfish reasons. I agree with Auck. It is high-time the search for his international replacement was accelerated. This is a great opportunity to do so.

We will dip when he goes. We do every single time he is missing. Any team would, but we cannot put off aligning his successor any longer.

We don't want another John Hayes and ROG story here do we? Deccie wont finish any of these players careers in his tenure. The new coach will have to. Just as happened at Munster.

Give it to Earls for now (and Deccie will). Any other discussion is futile. There are a raft of players who are more than capable of replacing him over the next 3 years. Earls that is, not BOD.

We need a strong, balanced, complimentary, pairing. Not just try to slot in excellent individuals and hope it all works. In their hay days, BOD and Darcy were all those attributes combined in one unit. Telepathic rugby ensued.

I've seen all the rest and I see a near future with Fitz and Bowe in the centre. Leave Earls on the wing and only the wing - when Kidney is gone that is.

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