Ireland vs Argentina, Build-Up and Match Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Ireland's date with destiny fast approaches. Win and we are absolutely certain of a Second Tier seeding at the 2015 RWC. Lose... and we are at the mercy of other results. Argentina sit just ahead of us in the World Rankings table in sixth and will also be looking to copper-fasten their spot. There'll be no love lost between the two sides; these games are always confrontational and Argentina have a fair bit of momentum coming into this with a very credible win in Cardiff. They failed to register a win in their debut rugby championship season but the lessons learned make them a much more dangerous beast than the naive bruisers we've faced in the past. They've kept all their passion and physicality, but now have a fine young generation of elusive and skillful backs and a much better balance to their game. Two of those- Horacio Agulla and Lucas Amorosino- have been omitted by Santiago Phelan for this game but watch out for Juan Jose Imhoff and Gonzalo Camacho.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3885_8259078,00.html

Argentina: Marcos Ayerza, Marcelo Bosch, Maximiliano Bustos, Gonzalo Camacho, Manuel Carizza, Santiago Cordero, Agustín Creevy, Tomas Cubelli, Tomas De la Vega, Julio Farias Cabello, Juan Martín Fernandez Lobbe (capt), Santiago Fernandez, Francisco Gomez Kodela, Juan Cruz Guillemain, Eusebio Guinazu, Juan Martin Hernandez, Juan Jose Imhoff, Martín Landajo, Juan Manuel Leguizamon, Tomas Leonardi, Nahuel Lobo, Manuel Montero, Bruno Postiglioni, Federico Sanchez, Leonardo Senatore, Gonzalo Tiesu, Joaquin Tuculet, Tomás Vallejos, Nicolas Vergallo.

Talking of backs, Ireland coach Declan Kidney has a number of decisions to make after a much-changed backline ran rampant against against an admittedly under-strength and uncommitted Fijian side. Media and fans have been clamouring to see more of the likes of Craig Gilroy, Luke Marshall and Paddy Jackson but when he selects his side the Cork man has to counter-balance their obvious potential against the naivety of our last opponents and the value of experience. It would be no surprise if he mainly stuck to the conservative option; expect a few new faces but no radical, fundamental change. He'll be hoping Johnny Sexton recovers from an injury picked up in the warm-up on Saturday; he's scheduled to return to training on Thursday, the same day the team is named.

Teams to be edited in when they are announced. Discuss.

[tecphobe]

I was really pleased with the backrow they played as a backrow and complemented each other very well. Cracking Debut from Gilroy. If I had to to be ultra critical backs lost their depth and over ran a few balls. However that's nit picking. Murray was excellent quick to the ruck didnt over play the physical stuff moved the ball quickly from the ruck however pleaed dont box kick Connor. Pleased for all involved 8 out of 10 for me. Plenty to work but can look forward to the 6 nations based on that showing. Id like to see that side start the 6 nations with the likes of kearney poc obrien to come on of the bench

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I do hope the lads back up that performance in february. I also hope dk isn't saved because of this game

[SecretFly]

Overall very positive. I'm glad argentina didn't turn up though if they had the way they did against Wales we could have been in trouble

Oh come on guys - if Vanuatu had turned up against the Wales side of the last few weeks they would have had a realistic chance of winning.

Stop allowing the present to colour the past. Wales upped their game finally for the (seasonally fatigued!) ABs - and still took a third gear hiding from them. Against Argentina they were always on a path to likely defeat - it wasn't exactly anything special Argentina were bringing to the party. Argentina are good, and were good against Wales, but they didn't have to be sensationally good to get their victory that day.

Had Argentina beaten Ireland yesterday, there'd now be guys talking about how much improved the Agentinians are as a side, how the SH Championship has gven so much more to their game in attack. What we wouldn't be listening to is how amazed people were that the Argentinians looked so tired after a tough season and yet still played at a standard way above poor NH Ireland. Season fatigue wouldn't have been an issue.

We moan when we lose, we moan when we win. Argentina weren't let play. They thought they'd play it one way and they realised pretty damn quickly Ireland weren't going to go with the script. They became disheartened not by season fatigue but in knowking their goose was cooked in terms of creative endeavour and try scoring ability against an Irish side who were there to play their brand of Real rugby for a change - the kind of rugby we all (most of us anyway) know Ireland have the players to play, the kind we always scream for, the kind we mysteriously seldom get.

Argentina crumbled under a side that almost stole a victory over ABs in their home turf - despite the mauling we got in the final game (when we were 'drained' and 'tired' after a 'long season'!! ) - it's still the next best effort all year so far apart from the recent Aussie draw.

Argentina turned up ok. I said before the AIs started that we'd kill them. I said in the lead up to the game that I had more of a feeling that we'd score highly against them than my next best prediction of a close defeat to them (Ireland playing it's useless variety of rugby would have brought about that result).

Stop throwing inverted plaudits to the the wrong side. Ireland are a better side than Argentina when playing at their best. It's making our best something consistent that continues to be Kidney's major puzzle. Solve that and we're close to the top three - where we belong.

[Notch]

And what if another ref was reffing and he wasn't penalised but got the turnovers? Would he have been excellent then? Do you see things in black and white?

You think Munster would make an average player captain in his first full season? Its very relevant. You think he would be winning MOTM awards playing in the backrow in the HEC if he wasn't a good player? Once again it is relevant.

What has any of that got to do with his performance today and how it should be analysed? What you are stating speaks to his selection. None of it has anything to do with his performance.

In short to your other statement, yes. Maybe he would have three turnovers in his column rather than three penalties. He was penalised and they weren't penalties. What if Stephen Jones had slotted over than penalty against us and stopped the Grand Slam. Would you turn round and say to Paddy Wallace, 'chin up son. At least you got in position to try for turnover. On another day you would have got the decision'. Nonsense. POM knew the ref was extremely quick on the whistle, maybe unfairly so. He didn't alter his game. That speaks to immaturity and a lack of clear thinking in the match.

It's something Richie McCaw says. If he gives away one penalty, it's bad. If he gives away two in a game- simply unacceptable. He's the best because he figures out what the referee is hard on and what he'll allow very quickly and adapt.

O'Mahony will be a fine flanker, he just needs to get a bit more savvy. I'm sure he will and he'll be an asset to the side.

[SecretFly]

Immaturity is something... I was going to say 'we all' but I realised how much of a mistake that is. Okay - immaturity is something most of us grow out of. It's not a failing - it's just time. POM has the potential to be an Irish giant. Time gentlemen, please

[Rory_Gallagher]

He will be a fine flanker, but he will make a better 8.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Overall very positive. I'm glad argentina didn't turn up though if they had the way they did against Wales we could have been in trouble

Oh come on guys - if Vanuatu had turned up against the Wales side of the last few weeks they would have had a realistic chance of winning.

Stop allowing the present to colour the past. Wales upped their game finally for the (seasonally fatigued!) ABs - and still took a third gear hiding from them. Against Argentina they were always on a path to likely defeat - it wasn't exactly anything special Argentina were bringing to the party. Argentina are good, and were good against Wales, but they didn't have to be sensationally good to get their victory that day.

Had Argentina beaten Ireland yesterday, there'd now be guys talking about how much improved the Agentinians are as a side, how the SH Championship has gven so much more to their game in attack. What we wouldn't be listening to is how amazed people were that the Argentinians looked so tired after a tough season and yet still played at a standard way above poor NH Ireland. Season fatigue wouldn't have been an issue.

We moan when we lose, we moan when we win. Argentina weren't let play. They thought they'd play it one way and they realised pretty damn quickly Ireland weren't going to go with the script. They became disheartened not by season fatigue but in knowking their goose was cooked in terms of creative endeavour and try scoring ability against an Irish side who were there to play their brand of Real rugby for a change - the kind of rugby we all (most of us anyway) know Ireland have the players to play, the kind we always scream for, the kind we mysteriously seldom get.

Argentina crumbled under a side that almost stole a victory over ABs in their home turf - despite the mauling we got in the final game (when we were 'drained' and 'tired' after a 'long season'!! ) - it's still the next best effort all year so far apart from the recent Aussie draw.

Argentina turned up ok. I said before the AIs started that we'd kill them. I said in the lead up to the game that I had more of a feeling that we'd score highly against them than my next best prediction of a close defeat to them (Ireland playing it's useless variety of rugby would have brought about that result).

Stop throwing inverted plaudits to the the wrong side. Ireland are a better side than Argentina when playing at their best. It's making our best something consistent that continues to be Kidney's major puzzle. Solve that and we're close to the top three - where we belong.

Well said

[asoreleftshoulder]

It's making our best something consistent that continues to be Kidney's major puzzle. Solve that and we're close to the top three - where we belong.

If Kidney could solve that for the 6N then I'd be happy to see him stay on,this was a great result but unfortunately we've seen these false dawns before.I'm going to be optimistic about the future but I won't get carried away until we see a consistent run of performances from this team.

On a seperate note well done to the coaching team for that result.They must have spotted a weakness in the Argentina defensive system because we got 2 tries from kicks in behind them and Earls was a lucky bounce away from getting another one in the first half.

[Sin é]

Great team performance. Well done Sexton - there might be an international outhalf beginning to emerge! By far his best game ever in a green shirt. Looks like Murray & himself are beginning to gel. Great debut from Gilroy.

Looks like POM was gouged.

http://twitter.com/JohnFogartyIrl/status/272361185297444865/photo/1

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/gif-of-peter-omahony-having-his-eye-gouged-by-an-argentinian-player/

[profitius]

Overall very positive. I'm glad argentina didn't turn up though if they had the way they did against Wales we could have been in trouble

Oh come on guys - if Vanuatu had turned up against the Wales side of the last few weeks they would have had a realistic chance of winning.

Stop allowing the present to colour the past. Wales upped their game finally for the (seasonally fatigued!) ABs - and still took a third gear hiding from them. Against Argentina they were always on a path to likely defeat - it wasn't exactly anything special Argentina were bringing to the party. Argentina are good, and were good against Wales, but they didn't have to be sensationally good to get their victory that day.

Had Argentina beaten Ireland yesterday, there'd now be guys talking about how much improved the Agentinians are as a side, how the SH Championship has gven so much more to their game in attack. What we wouldn't be listening to is how amazed people were that the Argentinians looked so tired after a tough season and yet still played at a standard way above poor NH Ireland. Season fatigue wouldn't have been an issue.

We moan when we lose, we moan when we win. Argentina weren't let play. They thought they'd play it one way and they realised pretty damn quickly Ireland weren't going to go with the script. They became disheartened not by season fatigue but in knowking their goose was cooked in terms of creative endeavour and try scoring ability against an Irish side who were there to play their brand of Real rugby for a change - the kind of rugby we all (most of us anyway) know Ireland have the players to play, the kind we always scream for, the kind we mysteriously seldom get.

Argentina crumbled under a side that almost stole a victory over ABs in their home turf - despite the mauling we got in the final game (when we were 'drained' and 'tired' after a 'long season'!! ) - it's still the next best effort all year so far apart from the recent Aussie draw.

Argentina turned up ok. I said before the AIs started that we'd kill them. I said in the lead up to the game that I had more of a feeling that we'd score highly against them than my next best prediction of a close defeat to them (Ireland playing it's useless variety of rugby would have brought about that result).

Stop throwing inverted plaudits to the the wrong side. Ireland are a better side than Argentina when playing at their best. It's making our best something consistent that continues to be Kidney's major puzzle. Solve that and we're close to the top three - where we belong.

Good post, fly.

Argentina scored 2 late tries so I don't think people can say they were tired. Some posters have been writing off the Irish players and can't bring themselves to give credit where its due.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I haven't been writing Irish Players off I have been pretty clear in thinking that with our tactics I didn't think we'd win. If I was a better man I would have bet on the Pumas as I think they have been really good this year.

I went to the match and there was a really strange atmosphere in the stadium before the game and for the first 3minutes.

I am delighted we won and delighted we won well. I am delighted some guys who have been playing well below their potential fronted up and had really good games. I am disappointed we conceeded 24 points which would be enough to lose you a lot of games but am over the moon that we started playing to our strengths.

I just hope it wasn;t a once off, and it scares me that it was another one of our peaks that then reverts to poor poor play

[Thomond]

Dly you have a bit of a poitn but when Argentina miss 17 tackles in the first half, you can't say that they played anywhere near good. That has little to do with Ireland's dominance. Argentina wer asbolsutely shoite, not interested. People have beaten us enough when we have played like that it's time we returned the favour.


Stat of the day: Craig Gilroy beat 10 defenders of the course of the game. The rest of the team beat 8 combined.


Aslo Rory, I don't see much of a distinction between the 8 spot and the flankers. Ideally you want them all to be capable of the same job.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

Overall very positive. I'm glad argentina didn't turn up though if they had the way they did against Wales we could have been in trouble

Oh come on guys - if Vanuatu had turned up against the Wales side of the last few weeks they would have had a realistic chance of winning.

Stop allowing the present to colour the past. Wales upped their game finally for the (seasonally fatigued!) ABs - and still took a third gear hiding from them. Against Argentina they were always on a path to likely defeat - it wasn't exactly anything special Argentina were bringing to the party. Argentina are good, and were good against Wales, but they didn't have to be sensationally good to get their victory that day.

Had Argentina beaten Ireland yesterday, there'd now be guys talking about how much improved the Agentinians are as a side, how the SH Championship has gven so much more to their game in attack. What we wouldn't be listening to is how amazed people were that the Argentinians looked so tired after a tough season and yet still played at a standard way above poor NH Ireland. Season fatigue wouldn't have been an issue.

We moan when we lose, we moan when we win. Argentina weren't let play. They thought they'd play it one way and they realised pretty damn quickly Ireland weren't going to go with the script. They became disheartened not by season fatigue but in knowking their goose was cooked in terms of creative endeavour and try scoring ability against an Irish side who were there to play their brand of Real rugby for a change - the kind of rugby we all (most of us anyway) know Ireland have the players to play, the kind we always scream for, the kind we mysteriously seldom get.

Argentina crumbled under a side that almost stole a victory over ABs in their home turf - despite the mauling we got in the final game (when we were 'drained' and 'tired' after a 'long season'!! ) - it's still the next best effort all year so far apart from the recent Aussie draw.

Argentina turned up ok. I said before the AIs started that we'd kill them. I said in the lead up to the game that I had more of a feeling that we'd score highly against them than my next best prediction of a close defeat to them (Ireland playing it's useless variety of rugby would have brought about that result).

Stop throwing inverted plaudits to the the wrong side. Ireland are a better side than Argentina when playing at their best. It's making our best something consistent that continues to be Kidney's major puzzle. Solve that and we're close to the top three - where we belong.

I agree to a point, but Argentina were dreadful yesterday. Alot of fans wrote off good performance against Fiji because, 'sure bejesus, its only Fiji like'. Well yesterday Argentina were terrible. Of course some of that is down to good play from Ireland. I was impressed with the back three in the first 30 minutes, but after that they struggled to get into the game. But we have to get real about the match. No international teams should miss the amount of tackles that Argentina did yesterday. If they had put any sort of effort in, then Gilroy and both Sexton tries would have been stopped. While it was encouraging to see Ireland create those opportunities, we have to be objective and look at an Argentinian team that simply did not turn up. To concede 24 points to a performance of that ineptitude is nothing short of criminal.

In fact Argentina were so bad, so disinterested that we should be critical of Ireland for not scoring more. The last half an hour I thought we were pretty average.

Some of the players performances were encouraging. Healy and Ryan were excellent yesterday. Strauss put in a good shift, as did McCarthy who has really given the management something to think about in future selection. He had demonstrated that good performances for Connacht should be recognised and rewarded and not labelled as, 'awk sure, its only Connacht'. The back row were good at the breakdown but didn't carry the ball effectively. It's a backrow that could be effective if we were to play a quick offloading game. I have criticised POM, but the fact that he got into positions to effect turnovers is encouraging. He needs to mature physically and learn to play the referee. That will come with experience. I don't think he is quite up to international standard just yet, but I have ever once claimed he will never be. He will be an important player in the future, but right now just isn't effective enough. Whatever he might do at Munster he doesn't do for Ireland at present. Heaslip needs to up his game considerably.

Murray and Sexton have been getting a lot of praise for their performances. Why? What did they do that was so good? Nothing. They did bog standard basic things you would expect of international players in their positions. Is that something we should hang our hats on now? It's a sign of quite how bad we have been for nearly two years that performances that were no better than 7 out of 10 are lauded as a renaissance. D'arcy carried the ball well, distributed the ball well. Earls' distribution was much improved on last week with a couple of mistakes. The little kick was delightful. But I couldn't help but notice that he didn't really do very much. Earls is wasted at 13. I will continue to say that if all our wingers are playing well the best two Irish wingers are Earls and Bowe. Centre highlights Earls' flaws, like two badly missed tackles, and nullifies his strengths, like his broken field running which by some distance he is the best Irish player capable of exploiting.

Bowe was the best of the back three. Gilroy's try was excellent but the defending was dreadful. In the second half he was anonymous and he missed two basic tackles. Still, a very encouraging performance. Zebo looked like a winger covering full back which of course is what he is. I would have liked to see him more involved in the game. He made a couple of bad choices with distribution, but overall a good game. He and Gilroy give the management something to really think about come selection time if Kearney is fit.

Overall a decent performance but nothing to go over the top with. Mike Ross was very poor again, though did a good job in the scrum. I thought Bent did very well when he came on too.

Marks out of ten:
Healy- 8
Strauss- 6
Ross- 4
Ryan- 8
McCarthy- 7
O'Mahony- 6
Henry- 6.5
Heaslip- 6
Murray- 7
Sexton- 7
Gilroy- 7
D'Arcy- 7
Earls- 6
Bowe- 8
Zebo- 7

Bent- 7
O'Callaghan- 5

[Rory_Gallagher]

Dly you have a bit of a poitn but when Argentina miss 17 tackles in the first half, you can't say that they played anywhere near good. That has little to do with Ireland's dominance. Argentina wer asbolsutely shoite, not interested. People have beaten us enough when we have played like that it's time we returned the favour.


Stat of the day: Craig Gilroy beat 10 defenders of the course of the game. The rest of the team beat 8 combined.


Aslo Rory, I don't see much of a distinction between the 8 spot and the flankers. Ideally you want them all to be capable of the same job.

I agree to an extent, although of course any decent 8 must be good at controlling the base of the scrum, including when on the back foot. Plus you would ideally want your 8 to be able to make good ground with each carry and putting the team on the front foot. Heaslip hasn't really been doing that well enough for my liking.

[Thomond]

All your backrows should be capable of that I think Rory. Controlling the ball at the scrum is the only one that is probably not transferrable but any good footballer will be able to do it. The backrow positions can be interchangeable. I think the whole only the 7 is the breakdown guy is a bit outdated, all of them need to be good at the area, more than one backrwo should be adept at the breakdown.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Yeah I do agree with you Thomond, and I think Ireland are really beginning to show they have the players capable of that (O'Brien, O'Mahony, Henry and Heaslip are all very good at the breakdown) however an 8 should ideally be able to carry effectively from the back of the scrum also. Heaslip isn't that effective here anymore.

[asoreleftshoulder]

How long do you think it will take before Bent is 1st choice for Leinster and Ireland.Obviously we need to see him start games before making a complete judgement but he looks strong in the scrum and far better around the pitch than Ross.

Going by what we've seen so far I'd say by the 6N he'll have overtaken Ross.

[SecretFly]

Overall a decent performance but nothing to go over the top with. Mike Ross was very poor again, though did a good job in the scrum. I thought Bent did very well when he came on too.

I don't think anyone is going over the top...indeed I'd suggest many are dramatically under playing it for fear that they might get the cheeky reminder of AI comments thrown back at them during the 6 Nations when we 'inevitably' implode again. Some people are as predictable in the gloom as other are in predicting sunshine when Kidney goes. Neither is a place I trust to be.

Gloomy about shyte - enthusiasm shown when the right things happen. I repeat, this Argentinian side were never going to blow us away - never. Not in that last game, not had the met us in the first one of the AI season. You believe differently if you choose to, but I'm not doing a benefit of hindsight reading on this one - I already placed my cards on the table before the AIs started.

Why was I so assured? Because I consider Ireland a better side and I fully expected them to prove it. Why should I moan about last game in New Zealand forever? Yesterday spoke for itself.

Ireland, a long way from being as good as they can be - especially in the physical forward and defensive department, (that's actually the fun bit though. Argentina wanted to go home? - Well Ireland too were under-performing in my eyes and in yours - yet they're the ones that scored the 7 tries. One weak side meets one still undercooked one - parity in all but scoreboard)

But Ireland are doing things right for a change and yet again heading in the right direction if it sticks. The problem of course is that the right direction never gets a chance to get momentum as the sytem (from players to coaches) tends to break down, but you can't debate the future before it happens. All we have is now, and yet again - once more onto the breech - we have found a way to play that if it catches on WILL reap rewards against tougher opponents.

[Intotouch]

I thought the atmosphere was great yesterday! But this time I was up high with people who were shouting and singing, not with the "vaguely interested got the ticket for free" crowd near the front. At internationals it seems I'll have to choose between being close to the pitch or amongst real fans.

I was thrilled to see how well our team did. When will they start being consistently good though? What's blocking that?

[dublin_dave]

heaslip had a good game yesterday. all forwards actually looked to offload and move the point of contact. why oh why do we not always play like this.

4 for Mike ROss who had a solid game in the scrum, a bit harsh surely. He is not the fittest but he has made such a difference to the Irish scrum and has carried more ball than before this year. If he is only used for 60 minutes so be it, most international props are.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Earls is wasted at 13. I will continue to say that if all our wingers are playing well the best two Irish wingers are Earls and Bowe. Centre highlights Earls' flaws, like two badly missed tackles, and nullifies his strengths, like his broken field running which by some distance he is the best Irish player capable of exploiting.

Totally agree with this.

He did come back against the grain a little bit more which was a positive. He is at like 70% of his potential at 13 IMO.

I agree Shoulder, I think Bent is looking very, very strong. I think Ross is going to be on the bench against Zebre next week with Bent starting and if Bent continues to make good impressions he may get the home game against Clermont.

Just watching the game back again and Bowe is such an unreal talent. He could easily go down as one of Ireland's best players. All the little things he does and he so rarely makes a mistake. Looks like he and Zebo are really connecting and on the same wavelength, which I am ecstatic to see. Obviously Bowe links well with Gilroy as well.

Is Zebo now going to start at 15 for Munster? Please say yes Penny.

[Thomond]

Zebo should continue playing on the wing. Unless we play Laulala and Downey in the centre. I would still put Ealrs at FB ahead of him though. Zebo's performances means he deserves the wing spot no need to push him out.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I thought the atmosphere was great yesterday! But this time I was up high with people who were shouting and singing, not with the "vaguely interested got the ticket for free" crowd near the front. At internationals it seems I'll have to choose between being close to the pitch or amongst real fans.

I was thrilled to see how well our team did. When will they start being consistently good though? What's blocking that?

I agree with this. WE even got a Fields of Athenry out which hasn't been heard at an Irish Game in a long long while. I always sit up at the top, tickets are cheap, I have good eyesight and the people (fans of both teams) around are sound.

The atmosphere was pretty poor at the start, the kick out on the full at the start, the first 3 minutes and periods of the second half. It got pretty good as the game went on thought.

Was surprised that ROG got such a huge cheer, I thought the public were getting fed up with him but oh well

[Golden]

Was surprised that ROG got such a huge cheer, I thought the public were getting fed up with him but oh well

Well that could be because that might be his last appearance for Ireland. The next Ireland match isnt for 3 months, that's 3 months where Jackson will be starting week in week out and where Keatley will be pushing Rog hard for the starting shirt.

Hes been a great servant for Irish rugby but im hoping that come the 6 nations Jackson or someone else has taken his spot in the squad

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Was surprised that ROG got such a huge cheer, I thought the public were getting fed up with him but oh well

Well that could be because that might be his last appearance for Ireland. The next Ireland match isnt for 3 months, that's 3 months where Jackson will be starting week in week out and where Keatley will be pushing Rog hard for the starting shirt.

Hes been a great servant for Irish rugby but im hoping that come the 6 nations Jackson or someone else has taken his spot in the squad

Never thought of that I guess. If people thought that then it makes sense. If it does turn out that is the case, he really didn't do very well in his last appearance.

[MrsP]

Was that cheer not as much for Sexton as it was for ROG?

[profitius]

ROG will be back for the 6 nations. Why would Kidney change the habit of a lifetime?

[SecretFly]

God...I'm going to feel awful queasy when O'Gara Does finally call it a day.

You know how it goes. The mourners start turning up and do their best Twitter eulogies:

"Great servant..."
"Will be missed...."
"Fantastic record....."
"Golden *weep* Generation.........."

There's going to be a lot of pony pap rap being poured that day by some who'd now walk over his dead body if they found him lying in a cold Limerick street. I might take a little break from 606 when that day comes

[GunsGerms]

Really can't understand why kidney persists in giving Rog 10 minutes in every match. What is the point. It really makes no sense.

[rodders]

Great team performance. Well done Sexton - there might be an international outhalf beginning to emerge! By far his best game ever in a green shirt. Looks like Murray & himself are beginning to gel. Great debut from Gilroy.

Boyne has hacked Sins account!.....

[LeinsterFan4life]

Really can't understand why kidney persists in giving Rog 10 minutes in every match. What is the point. It really makes no sense.

He doesn't even play well in the 10 mins that he gets. When he receives the ball he fixes none of the defenders and the defence is able to drift across easily and cut off the space for the wingers. It was really evident yesterday when I was at the game.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Really can't understand why kidney persists in giving Rog 10 minutes in every match. What is the point. It really makes no sense.

He doesn't even play well in the 10 mins that he gets. When he receives the ball he fixes none of the defenders and the defence is able to drift across easily and cut off the space for the wingers. It was really evident yesterday when I was at the game.

The drop out and then the attempt at the cover tackle was the last straw. Good god!

[LeinsterFan4life]

Really can't understand why kidney persists in giving Rog 10 minutes in every match. What is the point. It really makes no sense.

He doesn't even play well in the 10 mins that he gets. When he receives the ball he fixes none of the defenders and the defence is able to drift across easily and cut off the space for the wingers. It was really evident yesterday when I was at the game.

The drop out and then the attempt at the cover tackle was the last straw. Good god!

Those last 10 mins could have been given to Madigan or Jackson to give them some international experience. What a waste.

[Notch]

Was that cheer not as much for Sexton as it was for ROG?

Nah, no chance. Thats for ROG. Its very evident if you're at the game, same against South Africa, because it starts when he's warming up. He gets a big reception being a 'ligind'.

I wish he knew when to call it a day and move off the stage with dignity. Its hard to see what he adds apart from some experience for Paddy Jackson to learn off.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I imagine He really would prefer to do it on his own terms rather than just not make the squad some day

[MrsP]

Really can't understand why kidney persists in giving Rog 10 minutes in every match. What is the point. It really makes no sense.

He doesn't even play well in the 10 mins that he gets. When he receives the ball he fixes none of the defenders and the defence is able to drift across easily and cut off the space for the wingers. It was really evident yesterday when I was at the game.

The drop out and then the attempt at the cover tackle was the last straw. Good god!

Those last 10 mins could have been given to Madigan or Jackson to give them some international experience. What a waste.

That was exactly how I felt. I know we didn't really think or dream the game would be so one-sided but it was a lost opportunity to try one of the youngsters. Felt the same way about the 12 shirt.

[Notch]

Probably after the Lions. He won't get picked for the Lions, though he personally may yet hold out some hope of that, and whether it's Kidney or someone else who is coach for the Summer Tour surely they won't see any value in picking him to tour USA and Canada?

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

God Notch they could to captain the side and lead the younger fellas! Christ I can easily see him going across the Atlantic.

[Notch]

Nah, come on. No chance.

[Gibson]

God Notch they could to captain the side and lead the younger fellas! Christ I can easily see him going across the Atlantic.

Jackson, Madigan and JJ should travel. Leave Sexton at home. And have a big, feicoff, surprise Goodbye Party for ROG, before the 6-N. He may get the hint then.

[Golden]

Sure Sexton will be tearing it up down under.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I hope not but who would captain that squad if not him. BOD and POC may be on the Lions or else retired. Best will be with the Lions for sure Heaslip as well most likely.

Ryan should make it too. Maybe POM will captain the side, players and coaches rate him as a leader.

[Gibson]

Sure Sexton will be tearing it up down under.

True Golden. He was imperious yesterday.

[Golden]

Yeah was very good. Also the fact theres no other good outhalves playing for the home nations.

[Notch]

I hope not but who would captain that squad if not him. BOD and POC may be on the Lions or else retired. Best will be with the Lions for sure Heaslip as well most likely.

Ryan should make it too. Maybe POM will captain the side, players and coaches rate him as a leader.

Chris Henry, Peter O'Mahony, Roger Wilson, Paddy Jackson, Rhys Ruddock all in the frame for Captaincy considering we'll be decimated by the Lions Tour. The first two would be in pole position but may just make the Lions tour with luck. The last two captained the U20s. Wilson has been around for a while, will most likely deputise for Heaslip when he's with the Lions.

Here's the thing; we don't just need to bring new players into the team between now and 2015. We need to develop new leaders too, give guys space to develop those leadership skills. Don't give it to someone who won't be around then. It's kicking the can down the road.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Kidney: Right. Paddy. Rog. Can the pair of you pop in to my office when you have a minute?

ROG: What's going on? Why's he here? I'm not giving you any more of those special favours again! Not for 8 lousy minutes!

Kidney: Come on now, calm down Rog. Consider yourself lucky Felipe wasn't playing! Lads, as you both know I'm only putting one of you down on the bench for the Wales game this weekend.

Paddy and Rog: Yea.

Kidney: And the pair of you have both been performing well at your provinces so I was going to

Paddy: Deccie, ROG hasn't played in the last 4 weeks. Ian and JJ have been tearing it up down in Munster.

Kidney: Paddy stop your moaning child or I'll give ya a shmack. So what I've decided to do to work out the spot on the bench is, we'll have a sing off.

Paddy and ROG: Wait come again.

Kidney: Ah Jaysus lads, a sing off. Sing for your survival, xfactor shtyle! ROG you go first cos you have a million caps or something.

ROG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inoy6eoPvdU

Kidney: Not bad, Ro, good work. Paddy, on with it.

Paddy: http://www.balls.ie/rugby/let-ulsters-paddy-jackson-serenade-you-this-morning/#sthash.uebfczJq.dpbs

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

I hope not but who would captain that squad if not him. BOD and POC may be on the Lions or else retired. Best will be with the Lions for sure Heaslip as well most likely.

Ryan should make it too. Maybe POM will captain the side, players and coaches rate him as a leader.

Chris Henry, Peter O'Mahony, Roger Wilson, Paddy Jackson, Rhys Ruddock all in the frame for Captaincy considering we'll be decimated by the Lions Tour. The first two would be in pole position.

Here's the thing; we don't just need to bring new players into the team between now and 2015. We need to develop new leaders too, give guys space to develop those leadership skills. Don't give it to someone who won't be around then. It's kicking the can down the road.

Never thought of Jackson as captaincy material.

Oh yeah I am 100% with you on that one, that tour is pretty crucial imo.

Yikes Felix may just have lost the game for Munster tonight just there.

[Golden]

Have the fixtures for the tour been announced?

Hopefully ill be in america for the summer and it would be nice to get to see them.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Nada yet Golden.

Hopefully see something like this for America/Canada

Kilcoyne-Cronin-Bent
McCarthy-Tuohy
Henderson-Pom-Henry
Marshall-Jackson
Marshall-Cave
Fitzgerald-Kearney Jr-Trimble

Sherry-Court-Fitzpatrick-Toner-Ruddock-Reddan-Madigan-O'Dea

[Golden]

Cheers Pete

No Gilroy or Zebo? presume your not thinking theyll make the lions?

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