Keeping the Wheels on - AKA England's next EPS

First topic message reminder :

After a remarkable finish to the Autumn series Stuart Lancaster and his coaches next mission will be the new years EPS. Chosen in January it will not be open for change until Sep that year (except swaps for injuries) so he'll need to plan well and pick not only on current form but prior experience and future potential.

In the final game of the AI's the starting team that day showed the route that England rugby needs to take on the pitch; hard and aggressive up front with the pack sharing the duties of fetching, carrying and rucking amongst a core group of multi skilled players rather then selecting various specialists for one or two specific roles. In the backs we say a few glimpses of the Catt/Farrel/Lancaster triumvirate in action with Youngs getting some quick ball and kicking well, and the 10 drawing his centres up to the line at pace and actually giving Tuilagi good ball to use. The left wing and full back then create momentum from the back by beating their first man when countering and staying tall in the tackle to wait for support.

Of course there were players who failed to cover themselves in glory like wise others who were never deemed good enough to get a chance or who were only in because of multiple injuries. These I expect to see fall by the road side next year.

The current England Elite Player Squad

Forwards (17)
Props
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Joe Marler (Harlequins), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Hookers
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers), David Paice (London Irish)
Locks
Mouritz Botha (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Tom Palmer (London Wasps), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Joe Launchberry (London Wasps)
Flankers
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) James Haskell (London Wasps)
No 8's
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)


Backs (15)
Scrum Halfs
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers), Danny Care (Harlequins)
Fly Halfs
Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Centers
Anthony Allan (Leicester Tigers), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins), Johnathen Joseph (London Irish) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Wings
Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints), Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby), (Ugo Monye (Harlequins))
Fullbacks
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens)

Players in italics were the latest changes allowed through injury or retirement (potentially the most likely to lose their spots again).

So to me the bulk of that 32 man squad looks about right, there are still quite a few players that are potentially a little worried about their places now:

Mako Vunipola (only came in for an injured Corbs but didn't look too comfy at times)
Rob Webber (Youngs looked a lot better and Hartley is still first choice)
David Paice (only came in for an injured Webber, didn't play better then Youngs or Hartley)
Mauritz Botha (just not an international lock, shown up completely by Launchberry)
Tom Palmer (anonymous around the park and not good enough at lineout time)
Courtney Lawes (injured a lot, is he big enough to partner Parling or athletic enough to partner Launchberry)
Tom Johnson (just doesn't play the style that England seem to need)
Tom Croft (injured and does his style fit England)
Phil Dowson (over 30 and can't make the match day 23)
James Haskell (Only came in for injuries, not sure if he did enough to stay)
Thomas Waldrom (pushed out of the starting lineup and hardly likely to make the bench)
Lee Dickson (can't make the match day 23)
Anthony Allan (can not make the 23, average club player)
Brad Barritt (bar one game looked out of his depth, potentially a new Noone)
Jordan Turner Hall (Like Barritt but less pace and no real vision, injured at a bad time)
Chris Ashton (A media darling but lazy in defence and pretty anonymous in most games, riding on rep at the moment)
Ugo Monye (only called up for injuries, didn't do enough)
Charlie Sharples (poor defence let him down)
Ben Foden (unlucky with an injury and now has two critical players in front of him)

Now I don't think all of these players will go, but there are a few who are near certainties.

Yappysnap's Elite Player Squad
Forwards (17)
Props
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Joe Marler (Harlequins), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)
Hookers
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Locks
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Joe Launchberry (London Wasps), David Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Flankers
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (London Wasps)
No 8's
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Billy Vunipola (London Wasps)

Backs (15)
Scrum Halfs
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers), Danny Care (Harlequins)
Fly Halfs
Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Centers
Brad Barritt (Saracens), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), George Lowe (Harlequins), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Kyle Eastmond (Bath)
Wings
Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints),Christian Wade (Wasps)
Fullbacks
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens)

The changes are
David Wilson did enough to get in to the EPS permanently
Nick Wood comes in to replace Vunipola as a trial
Tom Youngs replaces Webber as very real competition for Hartley
Dave Attwood comes in for Palmer to add some bulk and physicality if needed
James Haskell takes Johnsons place as he adds a bit more physicality and covers the back three
Billy Vunipola is trialled in Waldroms place to see his carrying game
Freddue Burns gets a permanent spot for Hodgeson
George Lowe, Billy Twelvetrees and Kyle Eastmond all come in to the squad to trial different attributes in the centres as well as cover the wings if needed.
Christian Wade comes in on the wing

beshocked wrote:Shame to say it about my own side but I think there's quite a bit of bias towards Saracens if you are indeed correct bluestonevedder

PSW I agree. I wouldn't have Strettle in the EPS ahead of Wade or Varndell.

To be fair to Strettle though he did score vs Munster too. I think he has 2 tries plus 2 assists from the last 4 games. Not enough though.

Agree about Tomkins and Eastmond. They need more time IMO. To be fair to Tomkins though he's been alright though.

I sort of hope the Telegraph article is pretty speculative, because I think Strettle would be a poor choice considering his recent performances. Saying that, he can be absolutely electric.

Beshocked, what's the deal with Short?

Flood 'dubious' as regards citing has been cleared up, having been cleared by commissioner.
As to his form.... well....another matter. I'm a big Burns fan, but I like Flood too when on form.

bluestonevedder wrote:AlastairW i'd love Wade and May to be in the Saxons at least, although I know May's just returning from injury and consequently hasn't really had a chance to prove himself this season.

Reckon Daly from Wasps could sneak into the Saxons too...

I think Wade will make it into replace a winger if they are injured or off form, can't see May getting past The Saxons at the moment. I do have a soft spot for Wasps as a Quins fan for obvious reasons, and i'd like to see them regain the form of the Dayglo days. Seem well on the way!

As for Eastmond, i've enjoyed watching him in his games all season for , but it is far too early in his Union career to have him in anything above the Saxons. No chance he'll sneak into the EPS and if Lancaster follows the same pattern as last year, he might see game time in the Baa-Baa's end of season friendly at the earliest.

bluestonevedder wrote:AlastairW i'd love Wade and May to be in the Saxons at least, although I know May's just returning from injury and consequently hasn't really had a chance to prove himself this season.

Reckon Daly from Wasps could sneak into the Saxons too...

Wade and May are already in the Saxons blustone and with limited changes this time around I don't see them dropping out. Agree i'd like to see Wade in a proper international perhaps the Italy game, but Lancs doesn't want to rush him up and I can sort of agree with that. Whilst we've done pretty well as a team the only real stand-out youngster that Lancs has brought through recently has been Joe Launchbury with Tom Youngs close behind.

I'm not saying the likes of Marler, Vunipola and Farrell aren't top quality players in their own right but I think they need a bit more time to find their feet. Launchbury has shown he's a special talent and i've been very impressed with Tom Youngs play at hooker.

Chjw131 wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:AlastairW i'd love Wade and May to be in the Saxons at least, although I know May's just returning from injury and consequently hasn't really had a chance to prove himself this season.

Reckon Daly from Wasps could sneak into the Saxons too...

Wade and May are already in the Saxons blustone and with limited changes this time around I don't see them dropping out. Agree i'd like to see Wade in a proper international perhaps the Italy game, but Lancs doesn't want to rush him up and I can sort of agree with that. Whilst we've done pretty well as a team the only real stand-out youngster that Lancs has brought through recently has been Joe Launchbury with Tom Youngs close behind.

I'm not saying the likes of Marler, Vunipola and Farrell aren't top quality players in their own right but I think they need a bit more time to find their feet. Launchbury has shown he's a special talent and i've been very impressed with Tom Youngs play at hooker.

Ah my mistake, thanks Chjw131

gregortree wrote:Flood 'dubious' as regards citing has been cleared up, having been cleared by commissioner.
As to his form.... well....another matter. I'm a big Burns fan, but I like Flood too when on form.

His injuries too. He has ongoing repetitive problems and seems fragile now.
Im much of the same opinion, he has to prove in the HC games hes worth a spot in the England side. Even if hes playing well england need cover for him in the squad training with the senior team.

I do think the critical ones are below...but in all honesty i dont think there are huge number of changes to be made as i like most of the EPS now.

Burns for Hodgson
Twelvetrees for Turner hall
Launchbury for Botha

Other question?
Who for Dowson
Does Tom Johnson stay in the EPS?

The bigger questions refer to the Saxons..wheres the young TH's which Second Rows from a real clutch of good uns now...and a host of back dilemas...surely young Daly will make it, he's been electric for Wasps...

All the selections are pretty much to be expected, only odd one is Strettle. Realistically I can't see him breaking in to the 23 so he's just taking up a place that could be used by a more talented player to train with the squad and get some experience.

Haskell for Dowson surely...? Or is he already promoted? He was Saxons, but was promoted to replace someone in the AIs....or have I made that up??

bluestonevedder wrote:

beshocked wrote:Shame to say it about my own side but I think there's quite a bit of bias towards Saracens if you are indeed correct bluestonevedder

PSW I agree. I wouldn't have Strettle in the EPS ahead of Wade or Varndell.

To be fair to Strettle though he did score vs Munster too. I think he has 2 tries plus 2 assists from the last 4 games. Not enough though.

Agree about Tomkins and Eastmond. They need more time IMO. To be fair to Tomkins though he's been alright though.

I sort of hope the Telegraph article is pretty speculative, because I think Strettle would be a poor choice considering his recent performances. Saying that, he can be absolutely electric.

Beshocked, what's the deal with Short?

To be honest I don't know. I think it's the coaches going for Strettle and Ashton because of their higher profile. Plus undoubtedbly they'll be getting paid more. To be fair to Strettle he's been better in the last few games. Bit more spring in his step.

Ashton is frustating because he was signed to be a finisher yet he doesn't seem to back himself. Has a silly tendency to cut inside when a straight run could lead to a try - e.g. highlights of Bath vs Saracens he should have scored in my opinion.

Short unfortunately hasn't really done much when starting to be honest.

It is a shame about Short, I thought he looked really dangerous with the ball in hand last year and was perhaps working his way towards a Saxons call up. He reminded me of Mark Cueto (Who is a good footballer) with a lot more pace.

Sarries have got a number of good wingers though, so he may need to look elsewhere to get more game time and improve his international chances.

Strettle looked made for international rugby when he first appeared. He doesnt look the same player now.

Flood too doesnt look like the player he was and does seem to be fragile these days.

How about a bit of a outside call....

Kvesic for Dowson?

Uncapped pair Billy Twelvetrees and Calum Clark have been named in a 33-man England squad for the Six Nations.

Gloucester centre Twelvetrees has forged an effective club partnership with Freddie Burns, who is one of three fly-halves in the squad.

Northampton flanker Clark served a 32-week ban last season for breaking the arm of Leicester hooker Rob Hawkins.

Burns, lock Joe Launchbury, hooker Tom Youngs and prop Mako Vunipola are formally promoted to the senior squad.

The requirement for an eight-man replacements' bench means senior squads have been extended to 33 players, with Vunipola the additional prop.

Saracens wing David Strettle and has been recalled, with Gloucester's Charlie Sharples dropping out.

Wasps back-row James Haskell is preferred to Phil Dowson of Northampton.

On Tuesday, Leicester fly-half Toby Flood was cleared to play in the Six Nations after a citing for an alleged tip tackle was dismissed at a Rugby Football Union disciplinary hearing.

He was cited for a dangerous tackle on Worcester counterpart Andy Goode in the Tigers' 19-14 Premiership win.

Stuart Lancaster has been a long-time admirer of Clark, who emerged through the Leeds academy when England's head coach was in charge at Headingley.

Clark, 23, has played the majority of his rugby in the back row but is nominally in the England squad as a second row. With Wasps lock Launchbury, 21, also in, Mouritz Botha and Tom Palmer drop out.

Twelvetrees, 24, replaces Leicester's Anthony Allen, Burns takes over from Harlequins' Jordan Turner-Hall, and Leicester's Youngs replaces injured Bath hooker Rob Webber.

Burns, Launchbury, Youngs and Vunipola were officially acting as injury cover when they helped England to a record 38-21 victory over the All Blacks in December.

I’ve read quite a bit of the blurb regarding the squad updates, but I’ve not really seen anything to suggest that Kvesic will be in the EPS unfortunately. It seems to be a shootout between Tom Johnson, the Hask and Calum Clarke according to most newspaper speculation.

Could be a good shout for the Saxons though. Come to think of it, the Saxons could have a seriously good squad this year.

Full announcement now out here:

http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/january/news-articles/090113_eps_announcements

England Elite Player Squad (33)
Forwards (18)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Alex Corbisiero (London Irish)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (London Wasps)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (15)
Chris Ashton (Saracens)
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
Alex Goode (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (London Irish)
David Strettle (Saracens)
Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

England Saxons Elite Player Squad (32)
Forwards (17)
Mouritz Botha (Saracens)
Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
Louis Deacon (Leicester Tigers)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints)
Will Fraser (Saracens)
Joe Gray (Harlequins)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
Shaun Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors)
Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
David Paice (London Irish)
Tom Palmer (London Wasps)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Billy Vunipola (London Wasps)

Backs (15)
Nick Abendanon (Bath Rugby)
Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
Tom Biggs (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
George Lowe (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
Joel Tomkins (Saracens)
Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins)
Christian Wade (London Wasps)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

Good calls in the second row, dropping Palmer and Botha seems the right thing to do but I bet it wasn't an easy decision to make. Lets hope Clarke is fired up to show everybody he is worth the gamble. (Assuming he gets anywhere near the squad).

Who are the second rows in the squad now?

Geoff Parling
Jor Launchbury
Courtney Lawes

Is that it? I can't think of anyone else at the moment.

2nd row is thin, but Croft can play there, but I would not want to start him in that position but would be happy for him to provide cover from the bench. That is clearly looking like Parling/Launchbury to start and Lawes to be on the bench.

According to the BBC Clarke is named in the squad as a second row.

Aye with only three second rows and two wingers most of the match day squad should write itself!

I'm open to being corrected here, but I don't believe Clarke has played second row much (ever?). Could it be someone at the BBC just assuming that because he is replacing a second row he must be a second row himself?

Don't think so. This is the exact quote from the BBC Sport article:

Clark, 23, has played the majority of his rugby in the back row but is nominally in the England squad as a second row.

Not too shabby, i think most people will be happy with that. Just to be nit-picky, i'm not convinced about Clarke and Lawes needs to be on form.

I wouldn't agree with Clark's inclusion as a second-row, given he's to small to play there and has never played there it isn't very logical. With Croft only just returning from injury and Palmer dropped we now only have one player in the squad likely to start that can run the line-out really efficiently (Parling). Surely SL would've been better of promoting Louis Deacon given he is actually a lock, is playing well and could run the line-out really well if Parling is unavailable.

Other than that Strettle is the only slight surprise. Ashton is a given with Lancaster's selection policies (not that I think he should be), Strettle I wouldn't have predicted on the other one though. I've always been a fan of Strettle but would've preferred to see Wade come in. If JSD had been fit I'd have loved to see him in the squad....

Wondering why Clarke's been selected as an out-of-position lock, when there are guys playing really good rugby at lock themselves; Slater, Deacon, Kruis, Kitchener, etc (Sorry, my Tigers bias coming through)

Well Carlos i wouldnt agree with his selection at second row over players like Kruis, Savage, Kitchener etc who are simply better...and actually play in the Second Row.

Dont forget...the saxons is pretty much bolted on now to the Seniors...and players just move...so Palmer and Botha can move up when and if required...

As I said at the time of his ban, not happy with Clark representing England on principle, not sure he's proven his attitude is acceptable yet

Has he apologised yet (publicly or privately)? Unless there is an admission of guilt and a willingness to improve then serving your time has no real merit.

EDIT: Fairly simple google search provides an attempted apology, written apology, remorse and contrition. Daily Mail. Apologies for inflicting the Mail on you all. One would hope that he has learned from this experience.

Clark will be in as a 6 but to be honest I don't know why he's there, has he done anything of note since his assault? Might as well have selected another lock and have Lawes covering 6 if depth is needed.

Otherwise I'm pleased 36 is finally in!!!

Callum Clark should be in jail not the England squad. Hes not a Flanker but it does ryhme. Aside form that pretty obvious changes, although Mako doesnt really deserve it based on his two woeful cameos in an england shirt....but England are thin on the ground for props if they arent going to pick the old donkeys.

Interesting that hes named a 33 man squad, I didnt realise the agreement allowed that.

The squad also only have two proper wingers in it still, which very much points to them continuing with Foden or Brown on the wing.

beshocked wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

beshocked wrote:Shame to say it about my own side but I think there's quite a bit of bias towards Saracens if you are indeed correct bluestonevedder

PSW I agree. I wouldn't have Strettle in the EPS ahead of Wade or Varndell.

To be fair to Strettle though he did score vs Munster too. I think he has 2 tries plus 2 assists from the last 4 games. Not enough though.

Agree about Tomkins and Eastmond. They need more time IMO. To be fair to Tomkins though he's been alright though.

I sort of hope the Telegraph article is pretty speculative, because I think Strettle would be a poor choice considering his recent performances. Saying that, he can be absolutely electric.

Beshocked, what's the deal with Short?

To be honest I don't know. I think it's the coaches going for Strettle and Ashton because of their higher profile. Plus undoubtedbly they'll be getting paid more. To be fair to Strettle he's been better in the last few games. Bit more spring in his step.

Ashton is frustating because he was signed to be a finisher yet he doesn't seem to back himself. Has a silly tendency to cut inside when a straight run could lead to a try - e.g. highlights of Bath vs Saracens he should have scored in my opinion.

Short unfortunately hasn't really done much when starting to be honest.

It's a real shame. Like Cumbrian says, I thought Short looked destined for International honours, and was electric during the Summer Sevens tournament. He's so tenacious in every facet of the game, and England don't tend to have those sorts of wingers.

I agree about Ashton- he does often try to take the harder route instead of backing himself.

Hopefully Short will find some game time soon, especially now these two are listed in the EPS!

Geordie - Yep agreed that how easily players can move between the two squads now is good to see, it allows players familiarity with the EPS before being in it. That said I'd still prefer Deacon in the squad though.

The other reason I don't like seeing Clark in the squad is, as he's an openside really, he can't actually be there as a second row IMO, if Robshaw gets injured he will be very fairly likely to start at 7. That I don't like for a couple of reasons.

Firstly if we wanted another 7 in the squad Kvesic is playing better than him at the moment and secondly I'd prefer to see Wood at 7 with Croft,Haskell or Johnson at 6 before Clark/Kvesic come in anyway. Just a strange call from Lancaster in my mind!

Yappy..if your looking for a Second Row , who can cover 6 surely Kruis is your man...quality young aggressive second row...who was MOM for Sarries v Munster playing at 6...and he's not even in the bloody Saxons.

Another could be Savage...either of those over Clark for me like...

EDIT: But equally young Slater IS in the Saxons...another similar player who is also having a cracking spell at the moment...so i guess we cant have them all in...

Yeh Carlos, I found the fact that Kvesic is a better, in-form 7 than Clarke odd too. Though, come to think of it, I think Clarke could really be more of this 6.5 type player. But, do we need more of these in the squad??

Tom Savage! I knew someone was missing.

Shame for him. He's having a top season so far.

I'd also have kicked Wade in there. Otherwise it's ok

king_carlos wrote:I wouldn't agree with Clark's inclusion as a second-row, given he's to small to play there and has never played there it isn't very logical. With Croft only just returning from injury and Palmer dropped we now only have one player in the squad likely to start that can run the line-out really efficiently (Parling). Surely SL would've been better of promoting Louis Deacon given he is actually a lock, is playing well and could run the line-out really well if Parling is unavailable.

Other than that Strettle is the only slight surprise. Ashton is a given with Lancaster's selection policies (not that I think he should be), Strettle I wouldn't have predicted on the other one though. I've always been a fan of Strettle but would've preferred to see Wade come in. If JSD had been fit I'd have loved to see him in the squad....

Carlos, Clark started at 5. for Saints a few weeks ago and he has played there a few times for Saints. I agree that he's in the squad really as a Flanker but i'd really have expected Lancs to have called up Deacon as an injury replacement for Croft. If Lawes picks up an injury I suppose he'll have to call up Deacon, Kitchener or Slater who's made it into the Squad.

From the point of view of merit there isn't really anyone else who's been really demanding inclusion at EPS level. Kitchener has been doing well and i'm surprised that Savage hasn't made it into the Saxons but no other locks really standing out in the league other than Samu Manoa!

I'm really happy with the squads overall. Allen, Botha, Turner-Hall and Dowson out which I think most on here would have changed. 36, Burns and the others also well deserving of places. Light at lock and over catered for in the back-row but that's how Lancs likes his squads.

Seems to be some misunderstanding about Clark and where he plays for Saints. Yes he has started for Saints in the second row, most recently was in the HK away at Ulster but moved into the backrow partway through the first half due to an injury to another player and I agree that he isn't really big enough to play there on a permanent basis (think he is about 6'4"). Starts the majority of games are at 6 and he's currently joint 3rd choice at 7 for Saints (with Nutley, behind Dowson & Wood). Wood has supposedly been playing 6 for Saints in recent weeks at the request of the England management with Dowson at 7 and Clark on the bench, although all 3 have been rotating and Wood has still been packing down at openside on attacking Saints scrums. My guess is that he is in the squad as a bench 2nd row / blindside cover at best (SL seems to like his utility bench options) and if one of the specialist second rows got injured then we would see Botha, Palmer or Deacon called up and start in the 6N before Clark started at 4 or 5. If Robshaw was injured then I'd expect Wood and Haskell to be selected at 7 before he was.

As a player he is happy to do the unspectacular stuff, is good defensively and at the breakdown. Decent at carrying in close quarters but not got explosive pace. Playing wise he tends to be someone who doesn't let the team down or make many mistakes and his penalty count seems to have improved from when he first joined from Leeds. Has he sorted out his attitude? I honestly don't know but SL must think so and I hope he's right. He's good enough to be in the squad in my opinion but I have do have nagging concerns that he could still be wound up. As a Saints fan I didn't feel the ban was long enough (felt he should have been banned for the remainder of the calender year) but he's served his time now and is eligible for selection.

Tomkins is taking a bit of time to adjust but I think he's getting there. He's starting to show some real potential and I wish him well. For a young player making the switch is a huge gamble and comes with criticism from all sides, it takes guts.

bluestonevedder - Probably is fair to say he's in-between open and blindside at the moment. He has the scavenging abilities of an openside but lacks the link play between forwards and backs (many aparent specialist 7's lack that currently though!). With Robshaw and Wood ahead of him as this sort of player I'd definitely say we'd be better of with Kvesic or Deacon there.

Chjw131 - He's only played there a tiny bit at pro level from what I can gather though?

The odd thing to me is that he hasn't been playing spectacularly well that's the thing. If Lancaster was determined to have another back row player in the squad surely Kvesic or Vunipola have justified it more this season. In the last 12months if anything Clark's done as much to justify still being banned than a return to the EPS, Lancaster is clearly a fan to back him twice when few expected it!

I'd watch the Northampton vs. Castre game if you can, Lawes is having a stormer!

Unlike the entire Sale team who continue to be an embaressment

Lawes was colossal tonight, finally showing that form that got him an Eng place originally, especially good was his lineout work.

Excellent to hear about Lawes...

Still not a big carrier of the ball (IMO) but ok. Improved in line out, and still putting it about in the tackle (not massive hits but excellent covering tackles). Fitness seemed pretty good considering his time off injured.

Looks like Strettle has a bad injury. Might be just over cautious because it's the neck. Hopefully he's ok

GeordieFalcon wrote:Excellent to hear about Lawes...

+1 It's going to take a hell of a lot for me not to want 4.Launchberry 5.Parling come the Scotland game as they complement each other so well. With only 3 locks in the squad it's really important to see Lawes hit form/fitness to put pressure on the other two and offer a dynamic option of the bench.

Also great to see him doing well in the line-out. With Croft unlikely to start, and no Palmer or Deacon in the squad, if Parling get's injured we've got no-one there who's very accomplished running the line-out which is a worry.

I'm going to put this out there, I don't think Lawes is ever going to be the big carrying lock, he just doesn't seem to have that build. I reckon he can be an effective carrier, but not in the Martin Johnson/ Danny Grewcock mould. However, if he continues to improve in the lineout like he has been and keeps his athleticism he and Launchbury could form a very good partnership.

I think he may bulk up a bit around 30 but Mallinder always said they were avoiding him bulking up too much. Still a big bugger but not 'solid'

Watching the Sarries game today i would say Farrell could keep that 10 spot. Id way prefer Burns...BUT i cant deny Farrell is an Iceman under pressure...and is developing that ability to win games and control them. Never gonna be a razamataz player but...great performance today...

I don't understand what more Brown can do to figjtfor his spot