England Injury Update

First topic message reminder :

http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/january/news-articles/230113_injury_update


Corbs having minor surgery today.
Burns has an MCL injury and not in contention for opening weekend.
Tuilagi making progress, but doubts over whether he will recover in time.
Billy V sitting out training this week with an ankle injury.
Tom Johnson out of 6Ns
Alex Goode has trained and will be released for Sarries LV game to get match practice.


Not on this update was Calum Clark who has had surgery and is out of 6Ns according to BBC.

Jon Joseph must have an injury otherwise I don't understand this.

It seems like quite a snub to the one fit outside centre in the squad that we would rather play one, possibly two players out of position rather than giving him a shot.

yappysnap wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

You OK Yappy? It's only rugby pal.

That midfield proved to be a good stop-gap before. Now England are a better team I don't see what is so bad about it? If it were France or Ireland then I could understand the concern, but it is a misfiring Scotland side. They'll once again be battling with Italy to avoid the wooden spoon.

Barritt/Farrell is a Frak awful 12/13 combo, ESPECIALLY with Flood at 12. Must be 36 at 13

Glas a du wrote:

yappysnap wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

You OK Yappy? It's only rugby pal.

Saw that there was a chance of Farrel/Barritt starting in the centres and stubbed my toe.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Barritt/Farrell is a Frak awful 12/13 combo, ESPECIALLY with Flood at 12. Must be 36 at 13

True, but they were decent defenders. Has Barritt played and attacked well for Sarries? He seemed to do that against the All Blacks.

Cumbrian wrote:Jon Joseph must have an injury otherwise I don't understand this.

It seems like quite a snub to the one fit outside centre in the squad that we would rather play one, possibly two players out of position rather than giving him a shot.

To be fair though his forms been pretty poor, LI have been dire, he hasn't had a chance to show any kind of skill other then getting the ball standing still, hopping from one foot to the other and then getting smashed by the rush defence.

36 has been one of the form centres in the prem, has proved he's more then capable as a Tindal replacement in defence for his club, had (not sure if he still does) the most turn overs won by any player in the Prem as of Xmas time and also has a good turn of pace, vision and a monster of a boot.

LI are unbeaten in 2013 I'll have you know!

I actually did not know that!

True, but they were decent defenders. Has Barritt played and attacked well for Sarries? He seemed to do that against the All Blacks.

Sarries don't really attack all that much. Most competent centres would have found space with Manu rampaging round, through and over the opposition.

I meant Flood at 10 earlier . Barritt can attack but him with Farrell an attacking duo is not

yappysnap wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Jon Joseph must have an injury otherwise I don't understand this.

It seems like quite a snub to the one fit outside centre in the squad that we would rather play one, possibly two players out of position rather than giving him a shot.

To be fair though his forms been pretty poor, LI have been dire, he hasn't had a chance to show any kind of skill other then getting the ball standing still, hopping from one foot to the other and then getting smashed by the rush defence.

36 has been one of the form centres in the prem, has proved he's more then capable as a Tindal replacement in defence for his club, had (not sure if he still does) the most turn overs won by any player in the Prem as of Xmas time and also has a good turn of pace, vision and a monster of a boot.

Yeah I know Twelvetrees is having a good season, I am just not a fan of playing players out of position. This is what is going to happen because none of the the centres selected are actually genuine outside centres.

Also we could potentially have a lack of pace in the backline. I accept 36 has a decent turn of pace, but he isn't out and out quick. This would be fine except place him in the FH/ Centre axis.

10. Flood/ Owen Farrell
12. Barritt
13. Twelvetrees

Then throw in Mike Brown (who isn't as slow as some would make out, but certainly doesn't have pace to scare anyone).

I know Manu isn't quick, but he is a force of nature. He breaks through tackles, he sucks in defenders and he scares defences.

My biggest worry about Saturday is that Scotland want to get us into an arm-wrestle (something they are more than capable of competing in) and by picking a blunt defensive backline, we'll play into their hands.

Cumbrian wrote:Jon Joseph must have an injury otherwise I don't understand this.

It seems like quite a snub to the one fit outside centre in the squad that we would rather play one, possibly two players out of position rather than giving him a shot.

Jon Joseph has been moved around by LI recently playing fullback & wing instead of OC which would not have helped his cause either.

Cumbrian wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Jon Joseph must have an injury otherwise I don't understand this.

It seems like quite a snub to the one fit outside centre in the squad that we would rather play one, possibly two players out of position rather than giving him a shot.

To be fair though his forms been pretty poor, LI have been dire, he hasn't had a chance to show any kind of skill other then getting the ball standing still, hopping from one foot to the other and then getting smashed by the rush defence.

36 has been one of the form centres in the prem, has proved he's more then capable as a Tindal replacement in defence for his club, had (not sure if he still does) the most turn overs won by any player in the Prem as of Xmas time and also has a good turn of pace, vision and a monster of a boot.

Yeah I know Twelvetrees is having a good season, I am just not a fan of playing players out of position. This is what is going to happen because none of the the centres selected are actually genuine outside centres.

Also we could potentially have a lack of pace in the backline. I accept 36 has a decent turn of pace, but he isn't out and out quick. This would be fine except place him in the FH/ Centre axis.

10. Flood/ Owen Farrell
12. Barritt
13. Twelvetrees

Then throw in Mike Brown (who isn't as slow as some would make out, but certainly doesn't have pace to scare anyone).

I know Manu isn't quick, but he is a force of nature. He breaks through tackles, he sucks in defenders and he scares defences.

My biggest worry about Saturday is that Scotland want to get us into an arm-wrestle (something they are more than capable of competing in) and by picking a blunt defensive backline, we'll play into their hands.

I think that that's pretty much the only way Scotland can or ever do beat anybody, by dragging them down to their level.

mawhis wrote:LI are unbeaten in 2013 I'll have you know!

But Joseph has yet to play at 13 in 2013 either. Played FB or Wing I think.

Surely JJ is a better bench option than Strettle then

Cumbrian wrote:Also we could potentially have a lack of pace in the backline. I accept 36 has a decent turn of pace, but he isn't out and out quick.

I know Manu isn't quick, but he is a force of nature. He breaks through tackles, he sucks in defenders and he scares defences.

My biggest worry about Saturday is that Scotland want to get us into an arm-wrestle (something they are more than capable of competing in) and by picking a blunt defensive backline, we'll play into their hands.

36 is actually pretty damn quick at top speed - though acceleration of the mark is not what it could be. While Sam disagrees with me (and he is the back while I was a forward so I am probably talking rubbish ) I really fancied the idea of Manu at 12 and 36 at 13 for Tigers - kind of a Nonu/SBW and Smith set-up.

Manu is a lot quicker than he looks. Try and look for his try against against France on Youtube. From memory he outpaces Clerc and Rougerie. Then there are a couple of tries for tigers on there where he dances down the Crumbie side to score in the bottom corner (one against Sarries where he demonstrates pace, delicate footwork and then power to deposit goode on his arse). I am sure people are tired of me defending him - but his skill set is much better than his bulk or team gamepl;ans would have you believe.

Agree completely about getting drawn into a dogfight. Been a long time since Scotland blew a team away. Their usual win is by grinding away such as the summer win over Aus.

36 is actually pretty damn quick at top speed - though acceleration of the mark is not what it could be. While Sam disagrees with me (and he is the back while I was a forward so I am probably talking rubbish ) I really fancied the idea of Manu at 12 and 36 at 13 for Tigers - kind of a Nonu/SBW and Smith set-up.

If it wasn't for the fact Manu is so explosive given the additional space a 13 receives I'd say it was a good idea. Boshing Barritt (a 10s best friend) with Twelvetrees on the outside in more spaceto launch the attacks with Goode. That works for me. Billy is about 16 stone and 6 foot 3 so is about the closest we've got to Manu without being the big man hinself.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

36 is actually pretty damn quick at top speed - though acceleration of the mark is not what it could be. While Sam disagrees with me (and he is the back while I was a forward so I am probably talking rubbish ) I really fancied the idea of Manu at 12 and 36 at 13 for Tigers - kind of a Nonu/SBW and Smith set-up.

If it wasn't for the fact Manu is so explosive given the additional space a 13 receives I'd say it was a good idea. Boshing Barritt (a 10s best friend) with Twelvetrees on the outside in more spaceto launch the attacks with Goode. That works for me. Billy is about 16 stone and 6 foot 3 so is about the closest we've got to Manu without being the big man hinself.

Or Jordan Turner-Hall.....but his Saxons performance left a lot to be desired.

JTH and Banahan are big boys but have none of the flair or explosive attacking capabilities of Manu and Twelvetrees.

formerly known as Sam wrote:JTH and Banahan are big boys but have none of the flair or explosive attacking capabilities of Manu and Twelvetrees.

Yep agree. After seeing him finally exposed to test rugby, I don't think JTH will ever cut it. Banahan however, since losing some weight and being dropped from the EPS, seems to have found a little form again, prior to his injury.

He's secretly impressed me a little, but don't tell anyone.

LondonTiger wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Also we could potentially have a lack of pace in the backline. I accept 36 has a decent turn of pace, but he isn't out and out quick.

I know Manu isn't quick, but he is a force of nature. He breaks through tackles, he sucks in defenders and he scares defences.

My biggest worry about Saturday is that Scotland want to get us into an arm-wrestle (something they are more than capable of competing in) and by picking a blunt defensive backline, we'll play into their hands.

36 is actually pretty damn quick at top speed - though acceleration of the mark is not what it could be. While Sam disagrees with me (and he is the back while I was a forward so I am probably talking rubbish ) I really fancied the idea of Manu at 12 and 36 at 13 for Tigers - kind of a Nonu/SBW and Smith set-up.

Manu is a lot quicker than he looks. Try and look for his try against against France on Youtube. From memory he outpaces Clerc and Rougerie. Then there are a couple of tries for tigers on there where he dances down the Crumbie side to score in the bottom corner (one against Sarries where he demonstrates pace, delicate footwork and then power to deposit goode on his arse). I am sure people are tired of me defending him - but his skill set is much better than his bulk or team gamepl;ans would have you believe.

Agree completely about getting drawn into a dogfight. Been a long time since Scotland blew a team away. Their usual win is by grinding away such as the summer win over Aus.

Always been impressed by Manu as a player. He showed in the Brad Barritt and Ashton tries vs New Zealand that's he got more to his game too.

bluestonevedder wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:JTH and Banahan are big boys but have none of the flair or explosive attacking capabilities of Manu and Twelvetrees.

Yep agree. After seeing him finally exposed to test rugby, I don't think JTH will ever cut it. Banahan however, since losing some weight and being dropped from the EPS, seems to have found a little form again, prior to his injury.

He's secretly impressed me a little, but don't tell anyone.

For goodness sake keep that to yourself, that kind of thinking isnt allowed!

I agree about JTH, I'd put in the same bracket as Luther Burrell except he has played for a stronger club as so has had more exposure.

There have been any number of centres who have looked good at club level, for a time at least. Most when tried at test level were pretty dire.

Who remembers how much hype there was about Ayoola Erinle half way through his first season at Wasps. Apparently here was a man who was going to be a rugby great.

Mind you we are not the only ones, the 6Ns has seen some pretty poor centre combinations over the years.

EnglishReign wrote:Surely JJ is a better bench option than Strettle then

My Uncle Dougie is a better bench option than Strettle.

And he's a casually racist, diabetic octagernian who could carry his belly around on a trolley.

Absolutely cannot believe DS is anywhere near the match day XXIII.

Bathman_in_London wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:JTH and Banahan are big boys but have none of the flair or explosive attacking capabilities of Manu and Twelvetrees.

Yep agree. After seeing him finally exposed to test rugby, I don't think JTH will ever cut it. Banahan however, since losing some weight and being dropped from the EPS, seems to have found a little form again, prior to his injury.

He's secretly impressed me a little, but don't tell anyone.

For goodness sake keep that to yourself, that kind of thinking isnt allowed!

I agree about JTH, I'd put in the same bracket as Luther Burrell except he has played for a stronger club as so has had more exposure.

I know, I know! I'm expecting some abusive personal messages throughout the day

LondonTiger wrote:There have been any number of centres who have looked good at club level, for a time at least. Most when tried at test level were pretty dire.

Who remembers how much hype there was about Ayoola Erinle half way through his first season at Wasps. Apparently here was a man who was going to be a rugby great.

Mind you we are not the only ones, the 6Ns has seen some pretty poor centre combinations over the years.

The Scottish combination for Saturday is pretty awful too.

George, your uncle sounds much like mine... strettle has some competition. Agree with the sentiment, strettle shouldn't even be in the saxons in my opinion...

It think that both Banahan and JTH's England days are over, JTH has never looked good when stepping up a level and now his place at club level is looking less assured. Agree Banahan is looking better but with JJ supposedly arriving at bath, i wonder how much he will be used at centre, and he is no international wing these days.

I also think the new breed of big centre with hands and a kicking game will come along and make them look a bit one dimentional...

But thats just my opinion... who really knows.

xx

Quick update - I noticed on the BBC news feed that corbs (no surprise) Morgan and Burns wont feature in the next match due to injury

lostinwales wrote:Quick update - I noticed on the BBC news feed that corbs (no surprise) Morgan and Burns wont feature in the next match due to injury

Damn, I was hoping that Morgan would make a quicker recovery. Wood didn't seem as effective at 8 and Thomas the Tank doesn't seem effective at the top level full stop. Cupboard seems a little bare at 8 if they don't feel Bill V is ready to make the step up yet.

Haskell at 8 ? didn't he do well there in 2011?

Easter

Is there any news on Freddie Burns?

majesticimperialman wrote:Is there any news on Freddie Burns?

See above, still injured. Gutted for the lad, was such a nothing game to get injured in.

damage_13 wrote:Haskell at 8 ? didn't he do well there in 2011?

exactly.
I never understood playing Wood at 8 and Haskell at 6. Should have been the reverse. Wood has played 8 at saints rarely, and then only as a fill in at the end of a small number of matches. I thought he was OK at 8 but clearly did not have the bulk to play at the base. Haskell would be a much better selection there.

B91212 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Quick update - I noticed on the BBC news feed that corbs (no surprise) Morgan and Burns wont feature in the next match due to injury

Damn, I was hoping that Morgan would make a quicker recovery. Wood didn't seem as effective at 8 and Thomas the Tank doesn't seem effective at the top level full stop. Cupboard seems a little bare at 8 if they don't feel Bill V is ready to make the step up yet.

What about Billy Vunipola, he has been superb at Wasps...?

Injured last I heard

Edit: played last week so probably ok.

MJ seemed to be grooming him as Easter's successor, and altho Haskell wasn't great at controlling the ball at the base of the scrum, he was improving. I think it's a shame SL hasn't continued with this since a battle between Haskell and Morgan sounds good for England (particularly since Morgan either runs out of puff or picks up niggles all the time). Not sure that Haskell is doing much club time at 8 either. This might also have freed up the 6 shirt as a straight fight out between Croft and Wood.

HammerofThunor wrote:Injured last I heard

Edit: played last week so probably ok.

Wasn't training with England pre Dublin trip and retained in the final 25 cut?

Would be an exciting ball carrier, good replacement for Morgan.

maestegmafia wrote:

B91212 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Quick update - I noticed on the BBC news feed that corbs (no surprise) Morgan and Burns wont feature in the next match due to injury

Damn, I was hoping that Morgan would make a quicker recovery. Wood didn't seem as effective at 8 and Thomas the Tank doesn't seem effective at the top level full stop. Cupboard seems a little bare at 8 if they don't feel Bill V is ready to make the step up yet.

What about Billy Vunipola, he has been superb at Wasps...?

As others have said, trained with the main squad last week and then released back to his club. Had been carrying an injury prior to that so maybe SL felt he wasn't match fit and so we had Tommy Tank on the bench in Dublin. I'm another English fan who would start with Robshaw at 7, Wood at 6 & Haskell at 8 against France and have Vunipola on the bench. I feel he's a bench luxury England can currently afford even if there are some parts of his game that still need work, seeing as Lawes covers 6 as well as second row as a replacement.

B91212 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

B91212 wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Quick update - I noticed on the BBC news feed that corbs (no surprise) Morgan and Burns wont feature in the next match due to injury

Damn, I was hoping that Morgan would make a quicker recovery. Wood didn't seem as effective at 8 and Thomas the Tank doesn't seem effective at the top level full stop. Cupboard seems a little bare at 8 if they don't feel Bill V is ready to make the step up yet.

What about Billy Vunipola, he has been superb at Wasps...?

As others have said, trained with the main squad last week and then released back to his club. Had been carrying an injury prior to that so maybe SL felt he wasn't match fit and so we had Tommy Tank on the bench in Dublin. I'm another English fan who would start with Robshaw at 7, Wood at 6 & Haskell at 8 against France and have Vunipola on the bench. I feel he's a bench luxury England can currently afford even if there are some parts of his game that still need work, seeing as Lawes covers 6 as well as second row as a replacement.

.

I'd still like to see Lawes at 6 at some point in time, the damage that he could help to cause starting is just too tempting to leave out. And he gives a completely different skill set to the backrow.

If Billy Vunipola is deemed too raw there is always Crane, captained the Saxons, coming back to form just not the most dynamic option but with a massive work rate.

He was pretty hopeless against Scotland A, Sam?

Was probably England's best starting player against Scotland A. If more of the England players had been as tireless and reliable England would not have lost.

Tireless and reliable no doubt but he just doesn't achieve much at the moment, he's not even close to bis best form and even then he was still thought of ad too slow and lacking dynamism.

If England want to enforce their game on the French, then Billy V should come in.

However if they are nervous of the power of Picamoles and go for the more defensive option then Crane would not be a bad shout - though I cannot see him being considered. In this situation I expect we would see the same back row as last time, but with Haskell at 8.

Tom Wood did not look like a number 8, though those were as bad as conditions get, and neither Haskell nor Waldrom are especially good at controlling ball at the base of the scrum.

I was at the Saxons v Scotland game...England were dire!

Only Slater (sub in the last 10 mins), Kruis and Fraser stood out for me.

Will Fraser - real deal or just another Seymour/Saull that shine brightly for a while at Sarries?

It may have been a one off, but in one particular televised game I saw Vunipola's control at the base of the scrum left a lot to be desired. He and Simpson managed to mess a number of promising positions between them.