England Injury Update

First topic message reminder :

http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/january/news-articles/230113_injury_update


Corbs having minor surgery today.
Burns has an MCL injury and not in contention for opening weekend.
Tuilagi making progress, but doubts over whether he will recover in time.
Billy V sitting out training this week with an ankle injury.
Tom Johnson out of 6Ns
Alex Goode has trained and will be released for Sarries LV game to get match practice.


Not on this update was Calum Clark who has had surgery and is out of 6Ns according to BBC.

Do we know any details of Morgan's injury? Also, someone mentioned that Cole might not make the France game after playing Ireland, any developments on that? I've heard nothing.

Control at the base of the scrum seems to be a dying art. Watching matches with my brother can be painful whenever a No8 messes up - especially when the scrum is going foward. He will scream and rant about how easy it actually is - and remind everyone of the 50m pushover try he once scored for Loughborough University.

Billy V is not great at this especially when scrum is under pressure - but I have seen Simpson mess up with quite a lot of different No8s

I can't find anything about Dan Cole missing the game against France, it will be pretty disastrous if he does.

It is not good to be this reliant on one player, when he looked like he was injured against Ireland I genuinely thought we were boned.

So I suppose we are going to have to find a long term competitor soon and I just don't think Henry Thomas is there yet. He gets beaten regularly in the AP, he'd be twisted into a pretzel at international level.

Davey Wilson has never really convinced at this level and that continues to be the case.

LondonTiger wrote:Control at the base of the scrum seems to be a dying art. Watching matches with my brother can be painful whenever a No8 messes up - especially when the scrum is going foward. He will scream and rant about how easy it actually is - and remind everyone of the 50m pushover try he once scored for Loughborough University.

Billy V is not great at this especially when scrum is under pressure - but I have seen Simpson mess up with quite a lot of different No8s

True that, it seems all across the game skill is being sacrificed for power, it's sad to see. Still, I reckon a genuine no.8 would be better than Tom Wood playing there, no matter who they are.

Cumbrian wrote:I can't find anything about Dan Cole missing the game against France, it will be pretty disastrous if he does.

It is not good to be this reliant on one player, when he looked like he was injured against Ireland I genuinely thought we were boned.

So I suppose we are going to have to find a long term competitor soon and I just don't think Henry Thomas is there yet. He gets beaten regularly in the AP, he'd be twisted into a pretzel at international level.

Davey Wilson has never really convinced at this level and that continues to be the case.

Regarding Cole, it was a bit of a loose statement from someone I think. You're right though, it would be devastating if he were out for France, especially since I see the French have drafted in Domingo once more.

Wilson I'm not sure about. Certainly the scrum still went well when Cole and Marler were subbed, and his work in the loose for Bath seems to have improved. It must be hard for him though. Bar a start in the World Cup, he only tends to get 10 mins max to show what he can do.

Davy Wilson is solid and wont let us down...but he's not top class. And i dont rate PDJ.

For this reasons I think its essential one of the young guns go to Argentina in the summer...Sinkler, Balmain or Knight are probably the three front runners. Are they ready...maybe not completely...but Knight has played a lot of games now for Glos.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Davy Wilson is solid and wont let us down...but he's not top class. And i dont rate PDJ.

For this reasons I think its essential one of the young guns go to Argentina in the summer...Sinkler, Balmain or Knight are probably the three front runners. Are they ready...maybe not completely...but Knight has played a lot of games now for Glos.

Balmain is ahead of Brookes at Tigers. However the appearances on th eSaxon's bench suggests the position is reversed in Lancaster's mind.

Cumbrian wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Control at the base of the scrum seems to be a dying art. Watching matches with my brother can be painful whenever a No8 messes up - especially when the scrum is going foward. He will scream and rant about how easy it actually is - and remind everyone of the 50m pushover try he once scored for Loughborough University.

Billy V is not great at this especially when scrum is under pressure - but I have seen Simpson mess up with quite a lot of different No8s

True that, it seems all across the game skill is being sacrificed for power, it's sad to see. Still, I reckon a genuine no.8 would be better than Tom Wood playing there, no matter who they are.

YES!

I am concerned about us missing Morgan Croft and Foden for France - all heavily involved in try scoring in paris last time out. Frogs will like that.

We lose ball carrying and dominant tone iwithout morgan. and i worry about wood out of position.

I'd rather Wood played at 6 where he has been. He is a much better flank than 8, and can utilise his speed a lot more off the scrum. I want a bosher at 8 who can make the hard yards with their bulk. Wood is all about speed and agility combined with aggression.

England have called in Joel Tomkins, Elliot Daly and Will Fraser to their squad as injury cover ahead of the match against France at Twickenham.

The trio arrived at Pennyhill Park on Sunday, with Daly set to provide training cover for Ben Foden, who is on a post-match recovery programme.

Fraser comes in as cover for Ben Morgan as he continues his rehabilitation from an ankle injury, while Tomkins is an injury replacement for Jonathan Joseph, who will remain with London Irish for treatment on a foot injury.

Easter would have been a good one off replacement here IMO - He's playing well and there is a lot at stake - He's a much maligned player and would not let you down

RubyGuby wrote:Easter would have been a good one off replacement here IMO - He's playing well and there is a lot at stake - He's a much maligned player and would not ley you down

I agree - but Lancaster won't back track. It's a good opportunity to bring through some young talent. Let's see how they get on!

Joel Tomkins.....

Cheers for the update Maes. I do wonder sometimes if you stalk the news websites.

It will be interesting to see if any of these guys get game time. Haven't seen much of Daly, anyone know what his form is like?

I do wonder if we have got something very right off the pitch as it were.

I find it quite striking that after that last 6N weekend any number of Irish players have ended up injured, and the only real worry we had coming off the pitch was about Cole's ankle (of which nothing has been said so therefore he must be OK)

There is always an element of luck in this I know, but maybe we are getting back to getting the physical conditioning right

nathan wrote:Cheers for the update Maes. I do wonder sometimes if you stalk the news websites.

It will be interesting to see if any of these guys get game time. Haven't seen much of Daly, anyone know what his form is like?

Nathan - his form has been pretty good, he played well in Wasps recent win at Quins. I see him as an outside centre really as he has great pace, distribution & very strong. He has also played in the back 3 and was FB for the Saxons defeat against Scotland A in awful conditions. I do hope he isn't one of these 'utility' players that can't nail down a full time position at the top level. However, he could be used like Brown as a winger with a great boot.

Seems to me that Lancaster is just rotating through the next rank of promising youngsters to have a look at them in training and to possibly get them used to the England way of doing things.

Don't think he has any intention of playing them any time soon.

I would like to see us augment our no.8 ranks why not bring in Vunipola to the bench? If not for France then for another match?

Interesting that they've called up Fraser for Morgan. I wonder if that means Lancaster is considering keeping Wood at 8.

Haskell, Waldrom and Billy V are all in the squad already. Short of Easter i am not sure where you would go for a No8.

As Tri says, I think he is just taking these two days to look at how young players go in training, before releasing them back to their clubs.

Fraser is a quality player...whilst Robshaw is currently first choice 7..he's gonna have some serious challenges of Kvesic and Fraser for that shirt soon.

Daly has been playing FB for the Saxons...and im not sure about that. I think he looks dangerous at 13.

And Tomkins impressed me at the weekend...a lot of the play rotated around him...his ability to stay on his feet and off load etc...
Possibly a move to 12 may be on the cards for him...but no issues with him in the squad as cover.

Its useful for these lads to come into the current England set up...which seems very impressively managed and get used to the systems, the team and the standards required.

Im sure even in training there will be a step up in intensity to what they're used to...

I hope Billy V gets his chance soon, he is on another level to all the 8's in England at the moment just 20 years old...seriously !

Robshaw is only ever going to lose his shirt if he gets injured, he is mr England, an awesome rugby player and captain and the first name on the teamsheet.

I wonder what Christian Wade said about Lancasters mother...must have been bad to be overlooked and bypassed by every Saracen squad player and fullback in the country...I reckon we will be seeing Jamie George's girlfriends pet pug pull on the Engalnd wing shirt before the best winger in England gets his shot.

Robshaw is only ever going to lose his shirt if he gets injured, he is mr England, an awesome rugby player and captain and the first name on the teamsheet.

Whilst i agree SirTidy, it keeps Robshaw on his toes knowing that he has two serious quality youngsters coming through the ranks...

Speaking of Jamie George, he put in a tidy little performance when he came off the bench at the weekend.

Whilst watching the Wasps vs. Gloucester match I couldn't reconcile that I was watching probably the four best wingers in England (open to interpretation) and none of them were in contention for the main England squad. Strettle (and to a lesser extent Ashton) is a lucky boy.

Strettle is a very lucky man, I agre Cumbrian. I don't tknow what he's doing at the moment to retain his spot. Having him on the bench is even worse, because I don't think he offers anything from there.

It's beacuse Strettle goes "like an energiser bunny".........

Wade and Varndell are both quality but the defence probably needs to improve before SL gives them the chance - I can sort of see why they haven't featured, although I would be delighted if Wade was picked. Same story with Sharples really.

Jonny May has a good all round game but has only just returned from injury, so hasn't been in contention either.

Strettle isn't spectacular but he is solid and won't leak tries. Can attack well every so often, so I think we are a bit harsh on him, most of the time. Would be good to see a pacy, young winger in there though.

Thought May looked fantastic last weekend but haven't seen the highlights from this weekend yet, how did he get on? He's got to be in with a shout of a call up. Great bench option at least?

Triangulation wrote:It's beacuse Strettle goes "like an energiser bunny".........

He certainly used to! He was electric a few years ago. Now, I personally think he's a waste of a bench/starting spot.

bluestonevedder wrote:
I see the French have drafted in Domingo once more.

Does anybody know how Domingo has been playing? He is the one player I have seen that really dominated Cole for the entire duration of a game, and not just the odd scrum here or there. He gave Cole an absolute shoeing in Paris a few years back.

Cole has improved immeasurably since then and Domingo has suffered with injuries so maybe it will be much more even a contest this time. Just interested how Domingo has been going?

EnglishReign wrote:Wade and Varndell are both quality but the defence probably needs to improve before SL gives them the chance - I can sort of see why they haven't featured, although I would be delighted if Wade was picked. Same story with Sharples really.

Jonny May has a good all round game but has only just returned from injury, so hasn't been in contention either.

Strettle isn't spectacular but he is solid and won't leak tries. Can attack well every so often, so I think we are a bit harsh on him, most of the time. Would be good to see a pacy, young winger in there though.

Wade's defence does leave a lot to be desired. However, I can't help but think that choosing a player against their weaknesses is rather sort sighted. I would love to see Wade on one of the wings. As a whole our defence is good, and our centres tackle anything and everything. Surely that could eleviate some of the pressure on Wade.... Maybe I'm just talking rubbish. I'm so torn between picking a player based on their attacking merits, or choosing someone with a good all round game.

Certainly, I think May looks to be the real deal. Though I've only seen the highlights of this weekend's game.

SL is obviously keeping to his 'young blood' principles and I can't argue with that. Yes, he wants results but more than that he wants depth for the run in to 2015. Can't say any of his chices so far have been abject failures even though some have not been wholeheartedly supported by fans. I wouldn't be surprised if he's talking to Wade's coaches pointing out where he would like to see improvement with an eye on the future. I don't believe he is totally ignoring him and others. Joel Tomkins is coming along nicely, not there yet but getting better all the time so good to see him being exposed to the elite squad programme. Pretty positive all round I think.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Robshaw is only ever going to lose his shirt if he gets injured, he is mr England, an awesome rugby player and captain and the first name on the teamsheet.

Whilst i agree SirTidy, it keeps Robshaw on his toes knowing that he has two serious quality youngsters coming through the ranks...

Speaking of Jamie George, he put in a tidy little performance when he came off the bench at the weekend.

Three, actually. In the longer term, the most serious threat to Robshaw may be very close to home. Luke Wallace has been filling the 7 shirt very nicely for Quins the last few weeks and has stated his aim as forcing his captain back into 6.

I think there's just a basic level that players have to be at in defence before they can cope with the pace of international games. Wade has what it takes to be a very good defender - speed and strength - but at the moment he just doesn't seem to get in the right place at the right time often enough. He could fix it in a season if he put his mind to it (example: last season, Matt Hopper was a complete liability in defence but has now reached the point where on Saturday he contained Manu very well). I hope he does.

Whatever happened to Sharples?

Was he scapegoated a little bit?

Did he deserve his dropping?

He's playing well for Glos I think Triangulation.

Got on the team sheet this weekend.

I still think he's a fantastic player, but his poor defensive showing against Australia has really counted against him.

Wallace is an exciting prospect, i fear he may fall into the tom guest role at harlequins spending his career as a very good back up to an international and never stepping out of the shadow. Despite the game time he's getting in robshaws absence a move to wasps or a similar Top 5 club might be sensible in the long run.

Hopefully on the summer tour Wade will get his shot....too late for Varndell now IMO and he will likely join the list of 'what if' internationals along with JSD, Cipriani, Flatman, Kennedy, Tom Rees etc

bluestonevedder wrote:He's playing well for Glos I think Triangulation.

Got on the team sheet this weekend.

I still think he's a fantastic player, but his poor defensive showing against Australia has really counted against him.

Sharples mainly plays RW at Glos, but out of position LW for England vs Aus so Ashton could stay on Right. Then vs Scotland (no Sharples now), England were again defensively exposed down the left wing, positional issues & so on. So maybe Sharples was not entirely the problem after all.

Wasn't aware of that gregortree, cheers.

I'd much rather Sharples be in the squad than Strettle. He's got far more potential.

sirtidychris wrote:Wallace is an exciting prospect, i fear he may fall into the tom guest role at harlequins spending his career as a very good back up to an international and never stepping out of the shadow. Despite the game time he's getting in robshaws absence a move to wasps or a similar Top 5 club might be sensible in the long run.

That depends on how Clifford and Trayfoot step up when Fa'asavalu and Easter's leave or retire I think. If he outperforms those two then I don't think it's implausible that Quins could have a Robshaw/Wallace partnership in the long run, though he would probably be a very good fit at Leicester if Salvi was thinking of moving on at any point.

Latest news is that Morgan should be fit and play.

Huzzah!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Latest news is that Morgan should be fit and play.

vs Italy or vs France? I had seen something about Italy (think it was DT)

Really?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9877557/Six-Nations-2013-England-coach-Stuart-Lancaster-hopeful-Ben-Morgan-can-play-a-role-in-challenge-for-grand-slam.html

"[Morgan and Burns] wont play this weekend"

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Latest news is that Morgan should be fit and play.

Great news PSW. You got a link?

gregortree wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:He's playing well for Glos I think Triangulation.

Got on the team sheet this weekend.

I still think he's a fantastic player, but his poor defensive showing against Australia has really counted against him.

Sharples mainly plays RW at Glos, but out of position LW for England vs Aus so Ashton could stay on Right. Then vs Scotland (no Sharples now), England were again defensively exposed down the left wing, positional issues & so on. So maybe Sharples was not entirely the problem after all.

He showed a lot of indecision in the Australia game in the AIs. Mainly for that Cummins try when he stayed on his wing leaving a 2nd row to deal with the Phipps (the SH) before then coming in too late and missing the tackle, leaving a 2 on 1 against Goode who stood no chance. He should have either seen the danger sooner and stepped in, or stayed on Cummins and stopped him getting the ball. he did neither and we conceded what was essentially the match winning try.

I see May as a much better option now tbh, thought he looked great in the midweek sides in SA, albeit against fairly average opposition, but he, Lowe and Wade all stood out for me in those games.

bluestonevedder wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Latest news is that Morgan should be fit and play.

Great news PSW. You got a link?

Yeah, we definitely need a link for this, last i heard was from this article

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/177295.html

which said this;

"Morgan and Burns are making slow progress," Lancaster said. "Freddie is further down the line, but they won't play this weekend so it will be another week or so.

"Ben will be fine. It's an ankle injury similar to the one Manu Tuilagi had. Manu was out for four or five weeks and Ben will be about the same. He wants to get himself right so he can push for selection against Italy."

Sorry yes my mistake its for the Italy game not the next one which is of course France *blushface*

Damn you PSW! Damn you to hell!

Well ok then not that much but FFS!

Some of us are emotionally vulnerable right now and this is the last thing we need.

It's Monday PSW, you're forgiven.

Un-Hazzah!

belovedfrosties wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Latest news is that Morgan should be fit and play.

Great news PSW. You got a link?

Yeah, we definitely need a link for this, last i heard was from this article

http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/177295.html

which said this;

"Morgan and Burns are making slow progress," Lancaster said. "Freddie is further down the line, but they won't play this weekend so it will be another week or so.

"Ben will be fine. It's an ankle injury similar to the one Manu Tuilagi had. Manu was out for four or five weeks and Ben will be about the same. He wants to get himself right so he can push for selection against Italy."

So in that case, will Lancaster keep the same back three? Most here reckoned it didn't work, and Wood must be at 6. That leaves Haskell, Waldrom or Vanipuolo for 8 and Haskell is at present well suited to being a sub (Did I see him in the second row vs Ireland).

The ESPN article also states Haskell has Flu. I hope he stays well away from the squad (perhaps in France) for a few days. Flu also takes a few days to get over (unless it's man-flu - the wimp )