Ireland Squad for Murrayfield- Kidneys Toughest Moments?

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29 man squad for the visit to Scotland.

Ireland Squad - Backs: Rob Kearney (Leinster), Robbie Henshaw (Connacht), Fergus McFadden (Leinster), Craig Gilroy (Ulster), Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster), Keith Earls (Munster), Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster), Darren Cave (Ulster), Luke Marshall (Ulster), Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Paddy Jackson (Ulster), Conor Murray (Munster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster)

Forwards: Rory Best (Ulster), Seán Cronin (Leinster), Tom Court (Ulster), David Kilcoyne (Munster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Declan Fitzpatrick (Ulster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster), Lewis Stevenson (Ulster), Devin Toner (Leinster), Peter O'Mahony (Munster), James Coughlan (Munster), Iain Henderson (Ulster), Seán O'Brien (Leinster), Chris Henry (Ulster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster).

Some weeks are from hell.

For Declan Kidney, when he's done, he might just look back on this week as one of the toughest he's faced since taking over the Ireland job. The discussion, analysis and bickering will take place below but I want to frame it by saying I do not envy him one bit. Indeed, I feel sorry for him when I think of the calls he must make. Let us hope necessity is the mother of invention- and that the character of the 15 men on the pitch is enough to carry us over the line.

Ireland Abú. G'wan Ireland.

not from what i can see sin e. They are all skirting around the issue of us starting an out of form 36 year old and talking guff as usual. basically kidney for pope etc etc. making all the right calls. harping on about the experience chestnut and failing to mention that the English side who deservedly beat us were mere pups with a young fly half pulling the strings.

the two decent performances v Wales and Argentina came with Sexton eventually playing on the gainline in a green jersey and with a youthful exuberant backline working off a decent platform provided by the pack.

I personally think this is the way for us to play given the fact we are a relatively small side at international level. Our pack delivered good ball against the vaunted young English pack but we did nothing with it. ROG tried his best but was hopeless and played so deep. Madigan to me is the logical choice to slot in at ten if we are trying to recapture the Argentinian and Welsh performances and play in a similar way.

We will probably change our tactics to suit O'Gara now. If he continues to play like he did for Munster and Ireland this year we will lose to Scotland and France and it will probably be the end of Deccie.

For the sake of our 6 nations campaign he needs to roll back the years. For the sake of the development of Irish rugby long term it may be best if he doesn't - there i said it

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Jackson is certainly helped by Pienaar and Wallace that is for sure. It's funny that the one eyed Munster brigade bring this up seeing as ROG spent most of his career being protected by David Wallace. Imagine how good Wallace could have been (and he was already awesome) if he had been allowed to, you know, play his own game and stop babying ROG through them.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with Jackson being babied - unlike Wally, Pienaar isn't Irish and so won't get a chance to baby any Irish players.

Still waiting for a link to a positive rationale as to why Madigan or Jackson should start.

Sin é wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Jackson is certainly helped by Pienaar and Wallace that is for sure. It's funny that the one eyed Munster brigade bring this up seeing as ROG spent most of his career being protected by David Wallace. Imagine how good Wallace could have been (and he was already awesome) if he had been allowed to, you know, play his own game and stop babying ROG through them.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with Jackson being babied - unlike Wally, Pienaar isn't Irish and so won't get a chance to baby any Irish players.

Still waiting for a link to a positive rationale as to why Madigan or Jackson should start.

...because after Sexton they are the two best out halves in Ireland. Is that not enough for you?

Dave, the tactics were not working for the time Sexton was on either. Someone on Munsterfans did an analysis of the first 10-15 minutes of the England game and Sexton didn't get to touch the ball until the 7th minute. BOD didn't touch it until the 9th minute. Meanwhile, Farrell (who was sitting back in the pocket) had touched it about 4 times at that stage.

Farrell's pulled the strings from the pocket and in fact only made one break in the whole game. The difference between the teams was that Farrell's kicking was excellent and all the Irish players (not just ROG) had poor kicking games.

GunsGerms wrote:

...because after Sexton they are the two best out halves in Ireland. Is that not enough for you?

No.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

...because after Sexton they are the two best out halves in Ireland. Is that not enough for you?

No.

So you are ok with flogging a dead horse when we have much better options? Do you not want the Ireland team to win or something? Do you hate Ireland?

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

...because after Sexton they are the two best out halves in Ireland. Is that not enough for you?

No.

I knew it! Sin is Declan Kidney! .....

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:For an alternative piece from the one eyed Munster republic even George Hook, the Rudolph Hess to Goebbels Thornley, has pointed out that Kidney has got it wrong by going with O'Gara and Earls. Even the most ardently pro-Munster voice on television is writing that...

He said nothing of the sort.

"

It says something about the Irish management that after 36 caps the Young Munster player's inability to pass has been ignored. Furthermore, moving O'Driscoll to inside centre places extra physical demands on a body that is obviously creaking at the seams."

Thanks George for joining what many of us have been rightly saying for the past two seasons. I'm glad you have caught up.

Poor old George & yourself have failed to notice that for someone who doesn't pass Earls must be doing something right becuase his wings seem to do ok when it comes to try time (Zebo 11 tries in 19 starts last season for Munster - and even Andrew Trimble managed to bag a few in the 6Ns last year - something he has rarely done outside BOD).

If we are going to point to writers in the medja as being oracles of all truth and knowledge then WoC as usual is head and shoulders above the print media.

"The choice for ROG’s back up was between Ian Madigan, Paddy Jackson and Ian Keatley. All three featured for their provinces this weekend, in what we hoped would be a beauty parade for at least a place in the matchday squad. But if it was a beauty parade, the ugly sisters have walked away with the sashes and flowers."

Just a load of cliches in that (and phrases like in form player. If Schmidt said he played well but it was a depleted Treviso. Still no one prepared to nail their colours to the mast - much easier to have a few cheap digs at the coach and O'Gara. That is not analysis.

PS - George must be going senile because he is tweeting today that O'Gara should start!

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

...because after Sexton they are the two best out halves in Ireland. Is that not enough for you?

No.

So you are ok with flogging a dead horse when we have much better options? Do you not want the Ireland team to win or something? Do you hate Ireland?

Why can't anyone do a proper analysis of why Jackson or Madigan should start.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

...because after Sexton they are the two best out halves in Ireland. Is that not enough for you?

No.

So you are ok with flogging a dead horse when we have much better options? Do you not want the Ireland team to win or something? Do you hate Ireland?

Why can't anyone do a proper analysis of why Jackson or Madigan should start.

It really is very simple. They are better players than ROG. There is no need for analysis it really is that simple. Its embarassing how sh1t ROG is now.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

...because after Sexton they are the two best out halves in Ireland. Is that not enough for you?

No.

So you are ok with flogging a dead horse when we have much better options? Do you not want the Ireland team to win or something? Do you hate Ireland?

Why can't anyone do a proper analysis of why Jackson or Madigan should start.

Here you go Sin

http://www.andymcgeady.com/the-irish-out-halves/

Sin, its so painfully obvious why anyone should start instead of ROG that there is no need for analysis. Anyone could do a better job than him. He was so bad again against the Scarlets that it is embarrassing to even talk about him starting for Ireland. All the pretenders have weaknesses in their game, in some cases quite major minus points. However all are better than ROG. You can sit and wait for the perfect time when all the pretenders are absolute matured but we aren't at that point now. Its desperation time. Sexton is not fit. O'Gara is now a rather painful joke that Scottish fans are begging for his selection. Jackson, Madigan and Keatley are all far from perfect. All are far better than ROG. For God's sake, I'd have Gareth Steenson in the side before ROG at the moment.

Also, Hook said that Madigan should have been starting. He chose ROG isntead of Jackson which isn't a surprise. We can't haven em nordies in the side. And Earls is able to make a pass as he has two arms. The autumn internationals where he committed GBH on the fourth row of the crowd with his horrible passing shows he doesn't do it effectively. Even George Hook who believes God was a Munsterman knows he's not up to it. When he criticises anyone from Munster you know they must be bad. Zebo scores tries out of nothing and those Trimble tries were from last year, one of which was a massive length of the pitch run that had nothing to do with Earls. Earls is defensively a weak link and offensively a substandard international. Perfectly passable for Munster, Ireland's third province. He showed throughout the autumn he is no where near international centre quality. He showed against England exactly what he is- a potentially superb wing.

OK OK I'll do it, I'll start at fly half....just this once mind.

It'll mean another Ulster man will have to drop out though sorry Craig.

Hook it seems from twitter that your namesake is trying to backpedal his article this morning... Just when I thought he'd turned a corner!!

I'm not sure why he is doing any backpedaling- I thought he was clear. He thought Madigan should have picked, he wasn't, and he'd pick ROG over Jackson. If the game was in November Jackson should most definitely have been picked, but he isn't 100% in form or in fitness. That said anyone with one leg and can tackle in already better than ROG on current form.

Madigans a bit flashy for kidney, they serve nice fish and chips though.

Would someone please post a good rationale of why Jackson or Madigan should start for Sin so he'll change his mind?

Thanks Ulsterman in Glasgow.

For starts his kicking stats are irrelevant based on the Rabo Pro 12. Its worth noting that Keatley's kicking from the tee drops to 40% in the Heineken Cup (once the pressure comes on). We haven't a clue about Paddy Jackson because Pienaar takes them and Madigan doesn't take them at all in the HCup.

He then says they are great tacklers. I know lots of great tacklers - but I wouldn't be selecting them to play outhalf. I'd want my outhalf to actually try and manage/control the game and not spend their time at the bottom of a ruck where they can't see anything.

(PS he is a soccer pundit!

I was chatting to a very knowledgeable Irish rugby fan in the pub on Friday night who was adamant that he wanted Kidney to select ROG for the rest of the 6N so that it would be 100% guarantee that they would lose or come close to losing every match and Kidney would not have his contract renewed.

Is this a view shared by other Irish fans or one particularly excitable indiviual?

George Hook @ghook
Kicking either tactically or at the restart or from the tee is the Achilles Heel of Keatley, Jackson and Madigan. All have one/more failings.

Notch wrote:Would someone please post a good rationale of why Jackson or Madigan should start for Sin so he'll change his mind?

Because they are the only options bar Keatley who have even close to the physical and mental ability to play at this level and our both vastly better options than a deluded 35 year old who can no longer tackle, kick or run......

Sin é wrote:Thanks Ulsterman in Glasgow.

For starts his kicking stats are irrelevant based on the Rabo Pro 12. Its worth noting that Keatley's kicking from the tee drops to 40% in the Heineken Cup (once the pressure comes on). We haven't a clue about Paddy Jackson because Pienaar takes them and Madigan doesn't take them at all in the HCup. Selecting data which supports your position, whilst ignoring data that doesn't- i.e Jackson was place kicker ahead of Pienaar with a good percentage before he got injured, not looking to find out Madigans actual percentage in the Heineken Cup etc.

He then says they are great tacklers. I know lots of great tacklers - but I wouldn't be selecting them to play outhalf. I'd want my outhalf to actually try and manage/control the game and not spend their time at the bottom of a ruck where they can't see anything. Straw man argument

(PS he is a soccer pundit! - Ad Hominem.

Sin, have you ever considered a career in politics?

Notch wrote:Would someone please post a good rationale of why Jackson or Madigan should start for Sin so he'll change his mind?

Lol yeah Sin is entirely reasonable like that.

I honestly don't know why RoG is being picked but it doesn't really matter,Kidney is a lame duck coach and we're just waiting for the summer til his contract runs out.Hopefully the IRFU will get a decent coach in and they should have an extra few quid to use since Kidney is an unnecessary addition to the ticket.We have Kidney (Head Coach) Foley (Defense),Smal (Forwards),Kiss (Backs/Attack) if someone like Schmidt or Mike Ruddock came in they'd actually take over one of the specialist positions as well as Head Coach so there should be a sizable pot to use for coaches salaries.

Solid8 wrote:I was chatting to a very knowledgeable Irish rugby fan in the pub on Friday night who was adamant that he wanted Kidney to select ROG for the rest of the 6N so that it would be 100% guarantee that they would lose or come close to losing every match and Kidney would not have his contract renewed.

Is this a view shared by other Irish fans or one particularly excitable indiviual?

Yes I would like them both to be shown the door. Both have offered a lot in previous years but both weighing the team down now and stalling progress.

Solid8 wrote:I was chatting to a very knowledgeable Irish rugby fan in the pub on Friday night who was adamant that he wanted Kidney to select ROG for the rest of the 6N so that it would be 100% guarantee that they would lose or come close to losing every match and Kidney would not have his contract renewed.

Is this a view shared by other Irish fans or one particularly excitable indiviual?

Well, in a sense you've got to clear the rubble before you can rebuild so I sympathise. If ROG starts every game between now and the end of Kidney, his successor (God help them!) can start with a new broom and no baggage.

I just want Ireland to do the jersey justice and O'Gara and Kidney to step aside with a bit of dignity left intact. I'd love three wins and then we get the new start. But he's probably afraid that if we get that, they'll give Declan the freedom of Ireland and ROG a four-year deal!

Sad thing is... he may be right. We have a problem with sentimentality, and we have problems with denial. And that means it takes something BIG to open our eyes to the fact things aren't working. It's instructional for BOD. He's still a great, great player. But if he goes on too long he'll endure the same fate. Knowing when to retire is the one of the hardest things for a sportsman in a life that is full of challenges. It's a hard path.

Graham Henry did a smart thing. He left the All Blacks job at the moment when he was on top. Thats his legacy.

Without trying to rufffle any feathers I didn't think he did much wrong last weekend and don't place the loss at his door.

He got caught out a couple of times due to the odd hospital pass from Murray but otherwise was standard and didn't do much less than what Sexton was offering when he was on the pitch (didn't he leave at 0-6 down?).

Is there anyone else out there that can do the job for the rest of the 6N if Sexton is out?

Tough games to Scotland & Italy away given your massive injury list and France at home will be some baptism for a young kid to get up to speed with test rugby... esp. if you don't get front foot ball.

Sin é wrote:Thanks Ulsterman in Glasgow.

For starts his kicking stats are irrelevant based on the Rabo Pro 12. Its worth noting that Keatley's kicking from the tee drops to 40% in the Heineken Cup (once the pressure comes on). We haven't a clue about Paddy Jackson because Pienaar takes them and Madigan doesn't take them at all in the HCup.

He then says they are great tacklers. I know lots of great tacklers - but I wouldn't be selecting them to play outhalf. I'd want my outhalf to actually try and manage/control the game and not spend their time at the bottom of a ruck where they can't see anything.

(PS he is a soccer pundit!

Firstly, what does his background have to do with it?

Secondly the stats show there's not much between them all in terms of kicking this year, and for all the claims that Paddy Jackson doesn't take the kicks for Ulster, he's still taken 35, which isn't much less than either Keatley or Madigan, and more than Radge. He's also taken most of the kicks in the Heineken Cup before the Saints game in Ravenhill, making about 90% in his first two games and slipping to 20% in the Garden's game and back to 100% at Ravenhill (18/25 overall so 72%)

Thirdly, having a fly-half who can tackle is the central tenet to our defence... How often does Sexton make the first up tackles, or win the choke ball. We can't play the same defensive system with O'Gara and that is a problem.

[quote="Notch"][quote="Sin é"]Thanks Ulsterman in Glasgow.

For starts his kicking stats are irrelevant based on the Rabo Pro 12. Its worth noting that Keatley's kicking from the tee drops to 40% in the Heineken Cup (once the pressure comes on). We haven't a clue about Paddy Jackson because Pienaar takes them and Madigan doesn't take them at all in the HCup. Selecting data which supports your position, whilst ignoring data that doesn't- i.e Jackson was place kicker ahead of Pienaar with a good percentage before he got injured, not looking to find out Madigans actual percentage in the Heineken Cup etc.

He then says they are great tacklers. I know lots of great tacklers - but I wouldn't be selecting them to play outhalf. I'd want my outhalf to actually try and manage/control the game and not spend their time at the bottom of a ruck where they can't see anything. Straw man argument

(PS he is a soccer pundit! - Ad Hominem.

I think this isn't the first time I've made the point about Keatley's kicking performance dropping off steeply when the pressure comes on and I really doubt if international rugby is less pressurised that Heineken Cup. If this bloke watched Keatley he would know that. It was also funny about his comment that he must be better than most because he played in the Sportground (where he would do all his practising!).

The last time that Jackson kicked in the HCup for Ulster was away to Northampton in Dec. and his success rate was 50% (which was the difference between home QF & and an Away one). The week before it was 28% in Ravenhill!

I don't think Madigan took any of the kicks in the Heineken Cup as Sexton was the starting outhalf.

Declan Kidney Ad hominem

I don't have a problem with Kidney as such, although you're right that all sides of this debate are committing huge logical fallacies. I know them well because there all the same ones I used to unconsciously make. Still do, sometimes for the craic. Sometimes when I let a hot heart overrule a cool head. So long as you're aware of the big gaping logical holes, we'll leave it there.

Indeed, your argument there is an example of whataboutery. "What about other peoples logical flaws" doesn't absolve yours.

No, I don't have a problem with Kidney. I suspect the problems run a lot deeper than him. Nor O'Gara. He's just a player who is picked to go out and play and does his best.

Sin, what did you think of ROGs performance against the Scarlets?

Notch wrote:I don't have a problem with Kidney as such, although you're right that all sides of this debate are committing huge logical fallacies. I know them well because there all the same ones I used to unconsciously make. Still do, sometimes for the craic. Sometimes when I let a hot heart overrule a cool head. So long as you're aware of the big gaping logical holes, we'll leave it there.

Indeed, your argument there is an example of whataboutery. "What about other peoples logical flaws" doesn't absolve yours.

No, I don't have a problem with Kidney. I suspect the problems run a lot deeper than him. Nor O'Gara. He's just a player who is picked to go out and play and does his best.

I've tried to get people to give positive analysis as to why either Madigan or Jackson should start. All of the arguements are just Kidney/ROG Ad Hominem ones which is a little sad for the young players.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Sin, what did you think of ROGs performance against the Scarlets?

I though his kicking was very poor. The other two outhalf's on the pitch's kicking wasn't great either.

Munster were undone by the amount of penalties they gave away - and the Scarlets ability to kick them from anywhere. They won that game with their kicking.

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:

Sin é wrote:Thanks Ulsterman in Glasgow.

For starts his kicking stats are irrelevant based on the Rabo Pro 12. Its worth noting that Keatley's kicking from the tee drops to 40% in the Heineken Cup (once the pressure comes on). We haven't a clue about Paddy Jackson because Pienaar takes them and Madigan doesn't take them at all in the HCup.

He then says they are great tacklers. I know lots of great tacklers - but I wouldn't be selecting them to play outhalf. I'd want my outhalf to actually try and manage/control the game and not spend their time at the bottom of a ruck where they can't see anything.

(PS he is a soccer pundit!

Firstly, what does his background have to do with it?

Secondly the stats show there's not much between them all in terms of kicking this year, and for all the claims that Paddy Jackson doesn't take the kicks for Ulster, he's still taken 35, which isn't much less than either Keatley or Madigan, and more than Radge. He's also taken most of the kicks in the Heineken Cup before the Saints game in Ravenhill, making about 90% in his first two games and slipping to 20% in the Garden's game and back to 100% at Ravenhill (18/25 overall so 72%)

Thirdly, having a fly-half who can tackle is the central tenet to our defence... How often does Sexton make the first up tackles, or win the choke ball. We can't play the same defensive system with O'Gara and that is a problem.

He is an amateur rugby pundit who bases his articles around stats (thats what he says in his bio). What he has done here is looked at the Rabo stats and taken them at face value. He seems to think that Keatley practising his place kicking in the sports ground places him at a disadvantage somehow (he obviously never heard about how the draught in the old Lansdowne Road worked to Ireland's advantage when playing there)!

Keatley & PJs kicking stats fall off the side of a cliff when they move up to Heineken Cup level pressure. We don't know about Madigan because he doesn't take any of the place kicks.

Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

At least he'll be back by the 6th of April.

The best team Ulster can put out right now is Team Rehab! Guess we just have to get on with it.

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

No other potential 12s available (other than Downey). It may as well be Madigan as anyone else.

Maybe Kidney has decided that George Hook and the fans are right about Madigan.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

Who knows where he'll be asked to slot in. Madigan won't make the matchday squad but I still can't wait for whatever it is Kidney has cooked up for us this week. It'll either be incredibly predictable or a bit mad.

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

Who knows where he'll be asked to slot in. Madigan won't make the matchday squad but I still can't wait for whatever it is Kidney has cooked up for us this week. It'll either be incredibly predictable or a bit mad.

It makes no sense. Why not call up JJ or Keatley or someone else who actually has played 12. This cripples Leinster for no reason. I wouldn't mind if he was called up and he made the bench, but Leinster have a really important game this week and for him to miss it to hold tackle bags would just make no sense.

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

No other potential 12s available (other than Downey). It may as well be Madigan as anyone else.

Maybe Kidney has decided that George Hook and the fans are right about Madigan.

Madigan is not a 12, he can do a covering job at 15, but it would be madness to put him in at 12, especially with Marshall available.


Murray has spent the season babysitting Rog, he is capable of guiding Jackson through a game if it came to that, not that Jackson will see a minute of time. Scotland has an excellent back three now, and Hogg will destroy us if Rog kicks as poor as he has done this season.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

Who knows where he'll be asked to slot in. Madigan won't make the matchday squad but I still can't wait for whatever it is Kidney has cooked up for us this week. It'll either be incredibly predictable or a bit mad.

It makes no sense. Why not call up JJ or Keatley or someone else who actually has played 12. This cripples Leinster for no reason. I wouldn't mind if he was called up and he made the bench, but Leinster have a really important game this week and for him to miss it to hold tackle bags would just make no sense.

Munster are away in Italy, so maybe Madigan will be released back to Leinster in time for the game and that is the thinking.

valjester wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

Who knows where he'll be asked to slot in. Madigan won't make the matchday squad but I still can't wait for whatever it is Kidney has cooked up for us this week. It'll either be incredibly predictable or a bit mad.

It makes no sense. Why not call up JJ or Keatley or someone else who actually has played 12. This cripples Leinster for no reason. I wouldn't mind if he was called up and he made the bench, but Leinster have a really important game this week and for him to miss it to hold tackle bags would just make no sense.

Munster are away in Italy, so maybe Madigan will be released back to Leinster in time for the game and that is the thinking.

Ye hopefully but it would be more ideal if he trained with Leinster all week.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

Who knows where he'll be asked to slot in. Madigan won't make the matchday squad but I still can't wait for whatever it is Kidney has cooked up for us this week. It'll either be incredibly predictable or a bit mad.

It makes no sense. Why not call up JJ or Keatley or someone else who actually has played 12. This cripples Leinster for no reason. I wouldn't mind if he was called up and he made the bench, but Leinster have a really important game this week and for him to miss it to hold tackle bags would just make no sense.

It makes perfect sense. Kidney is crippling Ulster & Leinster by taking away their key players which give Munster a chance to catch up with them in the Rabo

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

valjester wrote:

Munster are away in Italy, so maybe Madigan will be released back to Leinster in time for the game and that is the thinking.

Ye hopefully but it would be more ideal if he trained with Leinster all week.

Yes, but I suppose on the bright side it means that Madigan will come into the 23 if Rog goes down.

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

Who knows where he'll be asked to slot in. Madigan won't make the matchday squad but I still can't wait for whatever it is Kidney has cooked up for us this week. It'll either be incredibly predictable or a bit mad.

It makes no sense. Why not call up JJ or Keatley or someone else who actually has played 12. This cripples Leinster for no reason. I wouldn't mind if he was called up and he made the bench, but Leinster have a really important game this week and for him to miss it to hold tackle bags would just make no sense.

It makes perfect sense. Kidney is crippling Ulster & Leinster by taking away their key players which give Munster a chance to catch up with them in the Rabo

I doubt kidders is that smart now

valjester wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Shoite! Chris Henry out injured for four weeks. Dave McSharry also injured. Tommy O'Donnell and Ian Madigan called up.

Chris Henry getting injured is manageable for Ireland, for Ulster its a big problem. Ulster have had plenty of injuries in the backrow.

Why has Madigan been called in? he has never played 12...

No other potential 12s available (other than Downey). It may as well be Madigan as anyone else.

Maybe Kidney has decided that George Hook and the fans are right about Madigan.

Madigan is not a 12, he can do a covering job at 15, but it would be madness to put him in at 12, especially with Marshall available.


Murray has spent the season babysitting Rog, he is capable of guiding Jackson through a game if it came to that, not that Jackson will see a minute of time. Scotland has an excellent back three now, and Hogg will destroy us if Rog kicks as poor as he has done this season.

Doesn't Paddy Jackson play 12. Maybe its a chance to check out if he is a better option on the bench if he can cover 12 as well as 15 & 10.

Sin é wrote:

Doesn't Paddy Jackson play 12. Maybe its a chance to check out if he is a better option on the bench if he can cover 12 as well as 15 & 10.

I would much prefer Jackson as the cover for 12, despite his relatively small size, he is an excellent defender, and has experience playing there in actual matches.

This is my first post after reading for a Long time.

As a Nation we are not going to progress unless we take some chances, and if that means selecting PJ or IM at 10 and mixing the back line up then so be it. But it appears that coach after coach is unwilling to do that, so unless the IRFU are going to cut their influence then we will not progress. I do think that DK's days are numbered but who knows with the IRFU. I wish sometimes he would just pick on form and see how it goes(if all are fit).

Notch wrote:Would someone please post a good rationale of why Jackson or Madigan should start for Sin so he'll change his mind?

Tag me in Notch!


So what are Scottish strengths? Their lineout is obviously quite good (as Best mentioned late last week) and they also have one of the best back3's in the tournament for the first time in decades.

So what are the Scottish weaknesses? Their midfield is pretty poor and their defence is relatively passive.

So obviously we want to stay away from their strengths and try and exploit their weaknesses yes? That would sound like sense right?

So ROG looks like he will start and his strengths (such as they are) are mainly around using his right foot. Is that a good idea however? Surely a kick is either going in to touch or not, so either to a strong lineout where we will probably not steal much ball or we will give it to a back 3 who are kicking it quite far and also running it back pretty well.
What about defensively? Well Rog is a weakness here especially as our options at 12 are poor unless BOD moves in, a new cap (Marshall) can not be expected to baby sit the 130cap man and ROG-Earls-BOD does not have the muscle to hold out many teams physically.
Rog will kick the goals though won't he and make the right decisions? Kick the goals yeah probably but make the right decisions? He hasn't demonstrated that ability for quite some time in all fairness. We can all remember those silly kicks in the Puma game or the poor decisions versus Wales last year which helped Wales back in to the match.

Jackson or Madigan will attack the gainline more and try to exploit that weakness in the Scottish midfield. Multiphase play will be really tough for Scotland to defend against and Jackson and Madigan can inject pace, variety and a running threat to keep Scotland on the back foot either conceding penalties or large sections of yards.
Defensively they are both much sounder than Rog but probably don't have that tactical kicking game (definitely do not). Maybe they lack that experience? Will they make bad decisions? They may well and they may well not. Will they kick all their goals? Probably not but will ROG.

Finally, one question, what was the last game ROG played well in?