Fullback choices for the Lions tour to Australia

by maestegmafia Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:37 pm

by GLove39 Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:04 pm

beshocked wrote:
I think Mike Brown offers more than Hogg too in terms of all round ability.

think you might need to change your calendar Beshocked, April fools day was yesterday..!

by alexgmacdonald Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:05 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Halfpenny tends to get a big overrated due to his goal kicking, Hogg offers more of threat.

I agree, good solid defensive full back who can kick goals very well. He seems to have lost the spark going forward. As a winger I thought he was always a good finisher though

by welshboii15 Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:06 pm

Hogg also dives to make it look like he didn't get walked around hogg also got beat under high ball by halfpenny. Halfpenny would rather injure him self than left someone score hogg just dives like Gareth bale Poopie house

by **George Carlin** Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:08 pm

Cannot believe some people are sticking Kearney in there.

The man is a giant but he's been horribly average this season by his standards. See no reason to take him unless Gats wants three fullbacks travelling. Suggesting that Kearney is a better bet than Hogg this season is hilarious. Categorical proof that some players are just never, ever actually watched by fans of other teams.

by **George Carlin** Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:09 pm

welshboii15 wrote:Hogg also dives to make it look like he didn't get walked around hogg also got beat under high ball by halfpenny. Halfpenny would rather injure him self than left someone score hogg just dives like Gareth bale Poopie house

Just a noise, really. Headscratch

by alexgmacdonald Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:12 pm

George Carlin wrote:
welshboii15 wrote:Hogg also dives to make it look like he didn't get walked around hogg also got beat under high ball by halfpenny. Halfpenny would rather injure him self than left someone score hogg just dives like Gareth bale Poopie house
Just a noise, really.

The only similarities between hogg and the footballer bale is the scorching pace and the ability to create something from nothing

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:13 pm

George Carlin wrote:
welshboii15 wrote:Hogg also dives to make it look like he didn't get walked around hogg also got beat under high ball by halfpenny. Halfpenny would rather injure him self than left someone score hogg just dives like Gareth bale Poopie house
Just a noise, really.

Yeah I don't understand this comment.

As per the Halfpenny Vs. Hogg in the Scotland vs. Wales match, that contest was a bogey, neither player got a chance to show what they can do. Halfpenny Nailed a bunch of penalties in that game and missed a few sitters too. To say Halfpenny blew him off the park is catagorically wrong. Neither player had a chance to do anything other watch the match from afar. Halfpenny complered a couple of up and unders, Hogg completed one and the both missed a 50-50 ball by coliding with each other.

Hardly a compelling case for either in that particular match.

by welshboii15 Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:14 pm

Well lets be honest there's only one country that would drop the player of the tournament for their player and that's the Scots because they need to get one of them on the pitch.

Yea the pace to intercept im proud well done Rhys Williams who did the same.

by alexgmacdonald Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:16 pm

welshboii15 wrote:Well lets be honest there's only one country that would drop the player of the tournament for their player and that's the Scots because they need to get one of them on the pitch.

Yea the pace to intercept im proud well done Rhys Williams who did the same.

And to set up maitland a try and to score against England never mind his try against Munster this year or the two earlier in the season or his hat trick against Munster last season...

by beshocked Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:16 pm

GLove39 wrote:
beshocked wrote:
I think Mike Brown offers more than Hogg too in terms of all round ability.
think you might need to change your calendar Beshocked, April fools day was yesterday..!

Brown shown himself to be as good an attacker as Hogg in the 6 nations with the additionally ability of being able to catch the high ball and tackle as well.

Unfortunately Hogg just isn't good enough defensively and under the high ball in my opinion. If he works on these aspects of his game then yes he should be considered.

In the 6 nations Hogg looked good in the England and Italy games but after that he was actually quite poor. A bit like Scotland actually.

by Taffineastbourne Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:17 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

However just as Irvine shifted to the wing to make way for the counter attacking abilities of JPR in tests gone by for the Lions Halfpenny should do the same for Hogg. The similarities between Hogg/JPR and Halfpenny/Irvine are obvious. Halfpenny and Irvine were super consistent kickers, solid in defence and elusive runners. Hogg and JPR are both adept broken field runners with fantastic awareness and speed to exploit out of position defenders.

I notice that you are 28 which explains your ignorance re JPR 's strengths.His major card was rock solid defence both in the tackle and under the high ball.He was also very adept at timing his insertions into the backline,particularly against our noisy neighbours.
Irvine was fast and a useful goal kicker.He had no hope of usurping JPR from the 15 jersey.Must confess that I cannot recall the wings that Irvine gained selection ahead of but Imsuspect that Irvine was worthy of selection ahead of them.

by alexgmacdonald Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:18 pm

beshocked wrote:
GLove39 wrote:
beshocked wrote:
I think Mike Brown offers more than Hogg too in terms of all round ability.
think you might need to change your calendar Beshocked, April fools day was yesterday..!

Brown shown himself to be as good an attacker as Hogg in the 6 nations with the additionally ability of being able to catch the high ball and tackle as well.

Unfortunately Hogg just isn't good enough defensively and under the high ball in my opinion. If he works on these aspects of his game then yes he should be considered.

In the 6 nations Hogg looked good in the England and Italy games but after that he was actually quite poor. A bit like Scotland actually.

To be fair about the high ball, he wasn't great in six nations, but against Munster last week he was imperious. ROG put up a heck of a lot of high balls especially right into the clogged up areas of the pitch and he caught every single one

by welshboii15 Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:22 pm

Well done he's scored at club level so because my 10 year old brother scored 4 tries in one game does that mean he is off on the lions im so proud. Hogg is crap he played for a team that won 2 games he scored 2 tries and set up 1 such an out standing player

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:24 pm

welshboii15 wrote:Well done he's scored at club level so because my 10 year old brother scored 4 tries in one game does that mean he is off on the lions im so proud. Hogg is crap he played for a team that won 2 games he scored 2 tries and set up 1 such an out standing player

42% of people on 606v2 disagree with the comment in bold.

I actually think this is becoming a pretty bitter thread so I'm going to bow out. I have been really kind and reasonable to Welsh players. I agree Halfpenny was the best player in the 6N and is an assured test starter only for a few Welsh posters to berate a very good player in Stuart Hogg without impartially viewing his performances as a whole this season for Club and Country.

A shame. Crying or Very sad

by alexgmacdonald Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:26 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
welshboii15 wrote:Well done he's scored at club level so because my 10 year old brother scored 4 tries in one game does that mean he is off on the lions im so proud. Hogg is crap he played for a team that won 2 games he scored 2 tries and set up 1 such an out standing player

I actually think this is becoming a pretty bitter thread so I'm going to bow out. I have been really kind and reasonable to Welsh players. I agree Halfpenny was the best player in the 6N and is an assured test starter only for Welsh posters to berate a very good player in Stuart Hogg without impartially viewing his performances as a whole this season for Club and Country.

A shame.

I'll join you on that one. Still looking forward to the lions though Very Happy

by Sgt_Pooly Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:28 pm

You can get good players playing in poor teams Boii (Scotland are not poor by any means).

If you're going off that argument we may as well just pick a Welsh XV as they were 6N champions.

Just try to calm down a little and understand people have differing opinions.

by beshocked Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:29 pm

To be honest I think both Halfpenny and Hogg whilst good players are both a bit overhyped.

Both offer strengths and weaknesses. Personally I would rather go for the more solid Halfpenny but Hogg is the more attack minded candidate.

I can understand the votes for Hogg. Lots of people like Hogg's attacking style.

by welshboii15 Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:40 pm

Well being 6 nations champions you would go with strong welsh connection but we haven't won against Australia for a couple years so you'd make minor changes.
Healy, O'Connell if fit, youngs maybe for Phillips, sexton, BOD or tuilagi for Roberts and bowe for Cuthbert. Done lions won

by funnyExiledScot Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:43 pm

beshocked wrote:To be honest I think both Halfpenny and Hogg whilst good players are both a bit overhyped.

Both offer strengths and weaknesses. Personally I would rather go for the more solid Halfpenny but Hogg is the more attack minded candidate.

I can understand the votes for Hogg. Lots of people like Hogg's attacking style.

Please don't tell me you voted for Alex 'bunnyhop' Goode! Wink

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:47 pm

welshboii15 wrote:Well being 6 nations champions you would go with strong welsh connection but we haven't won against Australia for a couple years so you'd make minor changes.
Healy, O'Connell if fit, youngs maybe for Phillips, sexton, BOD or tuilagi for Roberts and bowe for Cuthbert. Done lions won

the same O'Connell who was part of Munster's demolished pack against Glasgow on Friday? That is purely a pick based on reputation. He damaged his chances by having a poor game against the rampant Glasgow pack.

by flyhalffactory Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:48 pm

beshocked wrote:To be honest I think both Halfpenny and Hogg whilst good players are both a bit overhyped.

Both offer strengths and weaknesses. Personally I would rather go for the more solid Halfpenny but Hogg is the more attack minded candidate.

I can understand the votes for Hogg. Lots of people like Hogg's attacking style.

Beshoked
Hogg seven missed tackles - where is your backing data

by welshboii15 Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:51 pm

One player who isn't 100% yet but the same O'Connell that scored on his comeback. He's world class

by **LondonTiger** Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:56 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Hogg seven missed tackles - where is your backing data

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/fixtures/3538935/Rugby-Union-Statistics.html

2 against France http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/match/133796.html
none against Wales http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/match/133791.html
3 (from 4) against Ireland http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/133790.html
2 against Italy http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/match/133785.html
none against England http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/match/133783.html

by **George Carlin** Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:02 pm

Good lord - if I wanted this kind of anger and resentment, I would wait for Christmas dinner.

Can we just take a valium and agree that:

1. Hogg and Ha'penny are both the most likely to travel.
2. Either Kearney or Brown will likely take the other slot.
3. Byrne would be a reasonable call, but more left field.
4. The WelshBoil's todger is unquestionably the biggest. Rolling Eyes

by **LondonTiger** Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:22 pm

George Carlin wrote:Can we just agree that:

1. Hogg and Ha'penny are both the most likely to travel.
2. Either Kearney or Brown will likely take the other slot.
3. Byrne would be a reasonable call, but more left field.
4. The WelshBoil's todger is unquestionably the biggest.

Agreed
Agreed
Agreed
Super Agreed. When he was circumcised his foreskin was given to Gavin Henson to use as a sleeping back in the Arctic.

by flyhalffactory Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
Hogg seven missed tackles - where is your backing data
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/fixtures/3538935/Rugby-Union-Statistics.html

2 against France http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/match/133796.html
none against Wales http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/match/133791.html
3 (from 4) against Ireland http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/133790.html
2 against Italy http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/match/133785.html
none against England http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/match/133783.html

Ahhhh so we are using a tabloid for data which also reveals that James Hook only missed 3 tackles in the short periods he came on but we know he missed quite a few more than that, also reveals Faletau missing only 2 when we went through him twice.

Just two articles from a period of what 6 weeks
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2013/feb/02/scotland-stuart-hogg-england-six-nations

Whether Scott Johnson and his hastily rearranged coaching team have instilled that attitude into his players remains to be seen. But, as players, by which we here mean people alive to opportunity and the shifting narrative in front of them, there was much to commend this latest collection of Scots to try their luck in London. The two tries they scored were beautifully sourced, developed and finished.

Stuart Hogg was key to both, and his return to the side was a major plus. His spiralling touch-finders were a thing of beauty in themselves. From a technical point of view, his performance was nigh faultless. But it is his ability to identify weakness in opposition ranks that makes him so precious. He did not do much more than run in a straight line when he paved the way for Scotland's first, but picking these lines is the tricky part, not to mention running fast enough along them to evade the swarming defenders, and Hogg seems to have this facility in abundance.

For the second, he turned finisher, just to show that he can do that as well. His technical skills are fine indeed, but here he showed he could be flexible enough with them to perform a stunt of a very high tariff indeed. He pulled off the improvised kick ahead at full speed with some aplomb. It wasn't perfect, though, so he left himself with just enough to have to be brilliant again, changing tack to follow the ball to the corner, outpace the cover and gather the bouncing ball to touch down.

Sean Maitland and Hogg swapped roles for the two tries, Maitland the sweet finisher of the first and the line‑breaker for the second. If nothing else, Scotland emerge from the debris of this defeat with a new back three to cherish.

Lions Team Of The Week
http://www.espnscrum.com/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/179723.html

by **LondonTiger** Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:32 pm

FHF - the "tabloid" agrees with ESPN website - hence why I linked both - and both use the official data provided by Accenture. The accuracy of that is, well anyones guess.

I have no axe to grind either way - feel that Halfpenny has done more to earn the shirt over a number of years, but that Hogg in his shorter time has looked good.

by flyhalffactory Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:43 pm

LondonTiger wrote:FHF - the "tabloid" agrees with ESPN website - hence why I linked both - and both use the official data provided by Accenture. The accuracy of that is, well anyones guess.

I have no axe to grind either way - feel that Halfpenny has done more to earn the shirt over a number of years, but that Hogg in his shorter time has looked good.

They came from the same source, or the Telegraph nicked the stats from espn (as usual for the graph they are not interested in research of the "minor" countries) hence the same results. Its quite clear if you watched the matches that Hogg tapped a shoulder in the Irish game which the stats classed as a missed tackle absolutely dire appraisal.

I think 1/2p is a world class player, world class kicker and a try machine, and have no problems in him starting....... but the stats (for what they are) are not accurate. He only missed one player on player tackle, the others could be classed as a contribution of Vissers poor defence, a misunderstanding with Maitland and ok a few of them could be classed as miss tackles

by TJ1 Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:30 pm

the tackle stats are a bit odd. Miss a player by miles cos you were daydreaming - it doesn't appear as a missed tackle. Bust a gut to get close to making a tackle on a man that was not yours to take then if you get close it counts as a missed tackle. Only the Fofana one was a real clanger

by Tattie Scones RRN Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:32 pm

George Carlin wrote:Good lord - if I wanted this kind of anger and resentment, I would wait for Christmas dinner.

Can we just take a valium and agree that:

1. Hogg and Ha'penny are both the most likely to travel.
2. Either Kearney or Brown will likely take the other slot.
3. Byrne would be a reasonable call, but more left field.
4. The WelshBoil's todger is unquestionably the biggest.

You mean this Welsh boy is unquestionably, the biggest todger?

by Sgt_Pooly Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:36 pm

Stats look great on paper but often don't give the whole picture.

Always better to gauge an opinion from just watching a player rather than going off his stats.

by **LondonTiger** Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:49 pm

TJ wrote:the tackle stats are a bit odd. Miss a player by miles cos you were daydreaming - it doesn't appear as a missed tackle. Bust a gut to get close to making a tackle on a man that was not yours to take then if you get close it counts as a missed tackle. Only the Fofana one was a real clanger

Another one that counts as a missed tackle is when you smack the man to the ground, but let go on the way down - so a lot of "big hits".

Stats can be usefull but also misleading.

by TJ1 Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:00 pm

Still while to say Hogg is weak defensively is bollox he did miss a few in the 6N and 1/2 p didn't.

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:04 pm

I can't believe how few votes Kearney is getting, for me he is the best fullback of them all.

by Taffineastbourne Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:19 pm

Is Halfpenny the best fullback?Yes.
Are either of Hogg or Halfpenny better wings than Maitland,North,Bowe,Cuthbert?No.
Hogg to bench.

by Taffineastbourne Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:21 pm

Biltong wrote:I can't believe how few votes Kearney is getting, for me he is the best fullback of them all.

Think you are in a bit of a time warp.Kearney is getting back after a long lay off and is nothing like the player that he used to be.I think he will get there but sadly just like Lydiate this Lions has come at the wrong time. Sad

by **rodders** Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:37 pm

Biltong wrote:I can't believe how few votes Kearney is getting, for me he is the best fullback of them all.

Have you seen him play lately Bilts? Even his mam wouldn't vote for him in this form...

by fa0019 Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:49 pm

I'd go with Kearney at 15 supported by Zebo and Halfpenny on the wings.

Gives the lions a good kicking platform from the back, all 3 decent tacklers, genuine pace in Halfpenny and Zebo.

Everything they need to combat the AUS backline who have a very skillful backline both running and kicking wise.

We need 3 guys who are very comfortable in all scenarios.

Form wise its tricky given Kearney did not have a good 6N but lets see how his season ends... and hopefully see Zebo get back into competitive games before the team is selected.

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:53 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Biltong wrote:I can't believe how few votes Kearney is getting, for me he is the best fullback of them all.
Think you are in a bit of a time warp.Kearney is getting back after a long lay off and is nothing like the player that he used to be.I think he will get there but sadly just like Lydiate this Lions has come at the wrong time.

I accept that, and sadly you might be right that his recovery to form is too late

by Taffineastbourne Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:57 pm

rodders wrote:
Biltong wrote:I can't believe how few votes Kearney is getting, for me he is the best fullback of them all.

Have you seen him play lately Bilts? Even his mam wouldn't vote for him in this form...

His mam might not vote for Kearney but judging from the post beneath yours his nan still allows her heart to rule her head! Very Happy

by fa0019 Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:57 pm

Class is permanent form is temporary.

We have to go with form players yes but we need to have decent players to give ourselves a chance.

The 7 tour games and the games leading up to selection are enough for players to find form, get confidence. Past form and skills should also be considered.

You can say this is the way SCW went in 05 but really his players were mainly injured/coming back etc like Hill, Dillaglio and Wilkinson... not past it.

Choosing on form alone gives selections such as Andy Powell.

by maestegmafia Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:09 pm

The poll is open until a week before the squad is announced, there is still a decent amount of rugby to be played and peoples thoughts and views may change. As it stands currently these are the Squad choices by the mob that contributes to 606V2.

I dont know the make up or how many he really will pick so i am just running with top three options...

Loosehead Prop 89 votes so far

Cian Healy 39
Ryan Grant 20
Gethin Jenkins 15

Hooker 92 votes so far

Rory Best 45
Richard Hibbard 21
Tom Youngs 11

Tighthead 74 votes so far

Adam Jones 47
Dan Cole 19
Euan Murray 4

Locks 144 votes so far over the two polls so averaging 72 Votes

Geoff Parling 29
Richie Gray 29
AWJ 21
Ian Evans 20

Blindeside Flankers 78 votes so far

Chris Robshaw 19
Kelly Brown 18
Sean O'Brien 17

Openside Flankers 74 votes so far

Justin Tipuric 33
Sam Warburton 14
Chris Robshaw 13 (leading the Blindside option)
Ross Rennie 8 (Next best after Robshaw)

Number Eight 73 votes so far

Toby Faletau 28
John Beattie 26
Ben Morgan 10

Scrumhalf 73 votes so far

Ben Youngs 38
Mike Phillips 20
Greig Laidlaw 10

Flyhalf 59 votes so far

Jonny Sexton 30
Owen Farrell 13
Dan Biggar 6

Inside Centre 53 votes so far

Billy Twelvetrees 11
Jonathan Davies 13 (Also 3rd in the outside centre Poll)
Matt Scott 11
Jamie Roberts & Luke Marshall 7 (If we were to consider JD2 at outside)

Outside Centre

Brian O'Driscoll 22
Manu Tuilagi 22
Jonathan Davies 9

Right Winger 44 Votes so far

Sean Maitland 22
Alex Cuthbert 11
Christian Wade 7

Left Winger 45 votes so far

George North 21
Tim Visser 8
Simon Zebo 5

Fullback 59 votes so far

Stuart Hogg 25
Leigh Halfpenny 22
Rob Keaney 7

by t1000advancedprototype Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:46 pm

Halfpenny is the first name on the test sheet and I don't care where he plays.

by maestegmafia Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:50 pm

By the looks of everyones opinions on mass, Adam Jones is first on the team sheet not Halfpenny.

But I must admit you have a good point, what he offers in goal kicking alone gives us an advantage. The fact that he is excellent as a fullback and one of the best defenders in the NH only adds to that.

Hogg might be a great runner in open space, have a great sidestep and a fantastic eye for the gap, but he can guaranty you goals and he hasn't the tackles completed stats that Halfpenny has, what was it, two years without a missed tackle in the six nations.

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:01 pm

The thing is they are IMO the 2 best back 3 players in 6N. I want them both on the pitch because they offer different things.

Halfpenny is a superb player but the attacking threat Hogg brings cannot really be ignored.

One thing I would ask, is Halfpenny's reluctance to attack the line like Hogg, Dagg or Beale a coaching thing? I have said plenty of times he should attack the line more often because he is a different type of attacking threat compared with North or Cuthbert.

by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:02 pm

Even a season ago Byrne attacked the line under the Gatland regime.

by **George Carlin** Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:03 pm

maestegmafia wrote:The poll is open until a week before the squad is announced, there is still a decent amount of rugby to be played and peoples thoughts and views may change. As it stands currently these are the Squad choices by the mob that contributes to 606V2.

I dont know the make up or how many he really will pick so i am just running with top three options...

Loosehead Prop 89 votes so far

Cian Healy 39
Ryan Grant 20
Gethin Jenkins 15

Hooker 92 votes so far
That's a fine, fine team regardless of who actually plays.

Rory Best 45
Richard Hibbard 21
Tom Youngs 11

Tighthead 74 votes so far

Adam Jones 47
Dan Cole 19
Euan Murray 4

Locks 144 votes so far over the two polls so averaging 72 Votes

Geoff Parling 29
Richie Gray 29
AWJ 21
Ian Evans 20

Blindeside Flankers 78 votes so far

Chris Robshaw 19
Kelly Brown 18
Sean O'Brien 17

Openside Flankers 74 votes so far

Justin Tipuric 33
Sam Warburton 14
Chris Robshaw 13 (leading the Blindside option)
Ross Rennie 8 (Next best after Robshaw)

Number Eight 73 votes so far

Toby Faletau 28
John Beattie 26
Ben Morgan 10

Scrumhalf 73 votes so far

Ben Youngs 38
Mike Phillips 20
Greig Laidlaw 10

Flyhalf 59 votes so far

Jonny Sexton 30
Owen Farrell 13
Dan Biggar 6

Inside Centre 53 votes so far

Billy Twelvetrees 11
Jonathan Davies 13 (Also 3rd in the outside centre Poll)
Matt Scott 11
Jamie Roberts & Luke Marshall 7 (If we were to consider JD2 at outside)

Outside Centre

Brian O'Driscoll 22
Manu Tuilagi 22
Jonathan Davies 9

Right Winger 44 Votes so far

Sean Maitland 22
Alex Cuthbert 11
Christian Wade 7

Left Winger 45 votes so far

George North 21
Tim Visser 8
Simon Zebo 5

Fullback 59 votes so far

Stuart Hogg 25
Leigh Halfpenny 22
Rob Keaney 7

A fine team, regardless of who actually plays. Nice to see sanity reign on the right wing.

by Guest Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:10 pm

Don't forget 'gameplay' gents. Halfpenny is a much more attacking threat for the Blues, because that's the way he's allowed to play. Halfpenny has said himself that the Wales gameplan is very rigid. Kick everything in our own half and run in their half, plus it's too much of a risk to allow the FB to join the line and risk getting turned (over according to the coaches). None of which I agree with BTW. The point, however, is that the same welsh coach will be Lions coach. Hogg may seem like the better attacking fullback but he may be instructed not to play that way. Thus, is he the sort of fullback you want playing the defensive Gatland 15 role that Halfpenny currently plays (for Wales), staying back and essentially just kicking, tackling and claiming high balls? That's the Gatland model.

by maestegmafia Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:15 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:The thing is they are IMO the 2 best back 3 players in 6N. I want them both on the pitch because they offer different things.

Halfpenny is a superb player but the attacking threat Hogg brings cannot really be ignored.

One thing I would ask, is Halfpenny's reluctance to attack the line like Hogg, Dagg or Beale a coaching thing? I have said plenty of times he should attack the line more often because he is a different type of attacking threat compared with North or Cuthbert.

I think that is just his nature, he does back himself sometimes, notably vs Samoa in the RWC and the other week against England. He has bags of pace, but he doesn't have that instinct Hogg does.

I hope they both go, both train well together and both learn from each other. Hogg is a very young player and already showing such talents, its is a very exciting prospect having them both on tour.

by **George Carlin** Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:23 pm

fa0019 wrote:Class is permanent form is temporary.

We have to go with form players yes but we need to have decent players to give ourselves a chance.

The 7 tour games and the games leading up to selection are enough for players to find form, get confidence. Past form and skills should also be considered.

You can say this is the way SCW went in 05 but really his players were mainly injured/coming back etc like Hill, Dillaglio and Wilkinson... not past it.

The problem was that he still played out of form and non-match sharp players fa, because he was in love with the team that won the world cup. The players didn't have the form or fitness to execute that strategy again, to say nothing of some key retirees from that England party. Not only was that divisive in the training camp, it was tactically disasterous.

Cannot help but think of the deeply unfashionable duo of Cus and Hodgeson playing great stuff in the dirttracker games, relaxed in knowing that the training squads had been split and they were never going to get a look in on the tests.

Should never, ever happen again. I don't truly understand the separate of form and ability. You can measure the result in the guy who's playing the best rugby.

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