Scotland Coach

by allyt2k Sun 05 May 2013, 1:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

Breaking news; Mark Dodson, SR CEO, announces "We have concluded our search for a head coach and will announce that in coming weeks."

Any Ideas? sounds like its someone still in a job

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 May 2013, 8:25 am

y'never know, bunga bunga parties might be what the Scottish players need for motivation!

by tigertattie Wed 15 May 2013, 9:31 am

Right. We now saying it is Cotter for the top job?

This is worse than a storyline from eastenders for crying out loud!

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 May 2013, 9:40 am

I can believe the pre-emptive announcement before we've even hired the coach because it's classic SRU. We're TRYING to get Cotter, I think is more the term.

by **RDW** Wed 15 May 2013, 9:48 am

Would a man accustomed to having a load of superstars and a bigger budget than Belgium be the best person to get the most out of a resource and financially constrained Scotland team?

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 May 2013, 9:55 am

Depends on the man

by **George Carlin** Wed 15 May 2013, 9:58 am

RDS - I want any coach who knows what it takes to be successful.

You can only work with the talent you have at international level but you can put in place systems that mean your players train to their best ability and a gameplan which means that the team as a whole plays to its strengths.

Cotter has seen the best of what NH and SH club sides have to offer and what lets players compete and win against their peers. He would be an excellent choice. Unfortunate that all indicators point to him being more professional than the shower of golf club dwellers that hired him.

by **RDW** Wed 15 May 2013, 9:59 am

Fair enough – not saying he would be a bad choice, just think Scotland needs someone who knows how to get the best out of limited resources. It may turn out that he can do that, but I can’t think of anyone who has that experience at International level really

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 May 2013, 3:31 pm

oh god

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/4927951/Rugby-Union-New-Scots-coach-Vern-set-to-meet-squad-next-month.html

I think any hope of Cotter saying yes now has just left me. PR cockup of the century!

by funnyExiledScot Wed 15 May 2013, 3:54 pm

I'd pleasantly surprised if it's Vern Cotter personally. I've heard of him!

I suspect it's a Sun typo, they mean Fearne Cotton.

by R!skysports Wed 15 May 2013, 4:02 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd pleasantly surprised if it's Vern Cotter personally. I've heard of him!

I suspect it's a Sun typo, they mean Fearne Cotton.

At least if it was her, we could lose with a smile on our face

by flyhalffactory Wed 15 May 2013, 4:25 pm

Riskysports wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd pleasantly surprised if it's Vern Cotter personally. I've heard of him!

I suspect it's a Sun typo, they mean Fearne Cotton.

At least if it was her, we could lose with a smile on our face

Fern Britton maybe........... Fran Cotton maybe Shocked

by Artful_Dodger Wed 15 May 2013, 4:32 pm

Must say I'm surprised. Many seem adamant that Cotter is going to be named Scotland coach. Even if they are tabloids I'm starting to think there is something in it.

by tigertattie Thu 16 May 2013, 10:42 am

I am summaising here, Dangerous I know!!!!

It would seem that Cotter has been approached to eb the next coach! It is looking like if he wins the heiniken then he will consider his job as a club coach is done and will move on to international rugby.

clermont lift the trophy and Cotter moves to Scotland?

Here is where I am taking a guess now. If I am right, and if Clermont do not win, then cotter stays where he is! What then? Welll, I think the riens get handed back to Johnson again?

by funnyExiledScot Thu 16 May 2013, 11:00 am

Hang-on. Haven't we been told that the coach has already been appointed, and the announcement a mere formality?

Can't wait to see Cotter's face on the first day of training when he realises how few of the Scotland players can run fast and pass with any accuracy at the same time! Sorry Vern, you can't sign Dan Carter.

by nickj Thu 16 May 2013, 11:14 am

I hope that's the case but Cotter's quotes have made me question whether that's really what's happened.

I hope Cotter has been appointed and he felt he had to say he would only consider his future after the finals to keep up appearances and moral.

I suppose its also a question of whether Cotter has been actually appointed or whether he's just agreed to continue negotiations.

I dearly hope Vern isn't being forced into a corner by an over eager Mr Dodson, because it'll only end badly for the SRU if that's the case.

by **RDW** Thu 16 May 2013, 11:17 am

All this has reinforced for me is that the media are a total pain in the arse.

by Manky-Flanker Thu 16 May 2013, 11:18 am

tigertattie wrote:

It would seem that Cotter has been approached to eb the next coach! It is looking like if he wins the heiniken then he will consider his job as a club coach is done and will move on to international rugby.

clermont lift the trophy and Cotter moves to Scotland?

The SRU said the deal was done and signed, surely they wouldn't have said that if it were dependent on a Heineken Cup result. It looks like Cotter will be coach, however I can imagine he will be seething after being put in such an awkward position with his current employers. Particularly at a time when the team need to be focused on winning silverware

by SecretFly Thu 16 May 2013, 11:41 am

So in other words, a very, very big day out for Vern Cotter this weekend.

Walk into a French firing squad if he loses. "So you had your secret hand on the get-out clause, and now you want to stay put because you lost yet another title chance for us - yet again?"

or

Walk into a Scottish firing squad if he wins. "So we're finally good enough now to drag you away from a club, huh, even though we haven't the United Colours of Beneton/ Harlem Globetrotter players to help you along this time - What are you going to give us that doesn't require fancy SH signings to achieve?"

But apart from all that rather tongue-in-cheek stuff. Cotter and Scotland (playing like Glasgow or better) is a frightening prospect. Congratulations if it's him.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 16 May 2013, 11:51 am

Perhaps Cotter is actually over here as the next Edinburgh coach - and rumour has it that Fofana and Sivivatu will be coming over with him.....

Whistle

by **George Carlin** Thu 16 May 2013, 12:10 pm

Cotter has given the sort of non-commital answers that you give whilst knowing that the game is up and at the same time not wanting to urine anyone off. I am convinced that it is him but there's a buggers muddle happening right now and it is indeed all the fault of the press who have nothing better to write about at the moment.

The other issue to be considered is that Clermont may not want to keep him if they don't win at least one of the Top 14 and HC this year...

by funnyExiledScot Thu 16 May 2013, 4:43 pm

That last point is very true GC, but it'll make him a far stronger candidate in the SRU's eyes if he doesn't succeed at Clermont. The SRU love a failed coach....

by GLove39 Thu 16 May 2013, 5:13 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Perhaps Cotter is actually over here as the next Edinburgh coach - and rumour has it that Fofana and Sivivatu will be coming over with him.....

Could be great for them, imagine they'd learn a lot from Atiga & Lee Jones...

by MacKnocked-on Sun 19 May 2013, 12:19 pm

Big article about Cotter in today's Scotland on Sunday and what attraction the Scotland job may have to him as an eventual springboard to the NZ job.
On another note, no McKibben in the Wallabies squad announced for the Lions tour, might he now fancy his chances with Edinburgh/Scotland?

by SecretFly Sun 19 May 2013, 12:27 pm

So if Cotter goes to Scotland.... how many New Zealand coaches will that be looking to make the next world cup their audition for the All Blacks job?

Gatland?
Cotter?
Schmidt?

There'll be blood flowing when those sides meet!

by InjuredYetAgain Sun 19 May 2013, 2:51 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:Big article about Cotter in today's Scotland on Sunday and what attraction the Scotland job may have to him as an eventual springboard to the NZ job.
On another note, no McKibben in the Wallabies squad announced for the Lions tour, might he now fancy his chances with Edinburgh/Scotland?

Ye, the weather up here the last couple of days will really swing it for him!!!
To be quite honest, though, I am not bothered about him. He has fannied around so much and played us off against the Ozzies for too long that he would not be a good signing in my eyes. At least, Maitland made his mind up early and didn't (to what we know anyway) drag the decision out. Young Kennedy backing up Pyrgos will do for just now

by EWT Spoons Mon 20 May 2013, 8:45 am

There was chat before the HC final that if Clermont lost, Cotter might be inclined to hang around there (if he's allowed) to try and win the competition next year.

I wonder if that'll be the case and if the SRU have a plan B*

*to be honest I'm not totally sure they have a Plan A, but here's hoping.

by **George Carlin** Mon 20 May 2013, 9:14 am

This from Reid in the Torygraph today. Smells suspiciously like the true story:

Nathan Hines backs Clermont Auvergne coach Vern Cotter for Scotland role

Nathan Hines, the Clermont Auvergne lock, has backed Vern Cotter for the role of Scotland coach, saying the 51-year-old New Zealander has all the qualities he needs to make a success of the job.

Cotter, head coach at Clermont, finally admitted on Saturday that the Scottish Rugby Union had been in touch with him about the position, but said that he wanted to focus on his club commitments until the end of the French domestic season.

“At the moment that’s ‘hitting the waves’, as we say,” said Cotter when he was questioned about the Scotland job in a BBC interview. “I have had contact but nothing will be decided until after the season.”

Hines, 36, who played 77 times for Scotland before retiring after the last World Cup, moved to Clermont two years ago. While stressing that he knew nothing about any negotiations, Hines said that Cotter would make an ideal candidate to look after the fortunes of the national side.

“He is uncompromising and he has a great work ethic,” said Hines. “He puts pressure upon you.

“Even if you’re comfortable and you’re going well, he always tries to make you ask questions of yourself in order to find a little bit extra.

“Like he does with us, I think he will bring something of that hard edge and that work ethic. The Scotland boys have that already, but he’ll add to it.

“He is a motivator and a technician. He’s always provoking you, always posing questions, always thinking, always searching for something that will give you an advantage. He’s not scared to try new things either.”

Although there has been speculation that Cotter could be confirmed as new Scotland coach within the next few days, it seems likely that any announcement will have to wait until Clermont have completed their French Top 14 championship programme.

Cotter’s side take on Castres in their Top 14 semi-final in Nantes next Saturday. The final will be played in Paris one week later, on June 1, the day after Scotland depart for their three-Test tour of South Africa.

So:

“I have had contact but nothing will be decided until after the season.”

Well done McKie, you cockchomper. picard

At best, Cotter is being respectful of the fact that he still has a job to do and it's more important than ever after the HC failure that his team stay focused and take home the Top 14.

The worst case alternative is that he genuinely hasn't decided whether to accept.

by Pat_Mustard Mon 20 May 2013, 11:01 am

he is a massive cockchomper, but to be fair we probably can't blame Gordon McKie for this one!

I'm pretty hopeful that Cotter probably has made at least a verbal agreement to come on board but just doesn't want to announce it yet. That's what the noises he's making sound like to me anyway.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 May 2013, 11:13 am

There's no doubt that Cotter is a highly regarded coach, so on the face this is a good appointment (assuming true).

Of course the SRU couldn't just make a decent appointment and be done with it, they had to make it into as much of a debacle as possible, and have succeeded admirably.

Is there no-one in the SRU with any sense?? If these reports are true, what has clearly happened is that the SRU have approached Cotter and come to a verbal agreement. Cotter has obviously made it clear that he doesn't want this to distract from his end of season, to clearly the right thing for the SRU to do would be to have simply said:

"A number of top coaches forming part of our extensive search are currently involved in important end of season games. Our search is ongoing, and we expect to confirm an appointment during the close season. We are in no rush. Getting the right man is of paramount importance".

Done. How hard would that have been??

by **RDW** Mon 20 May 2013, 11:38 am

To be fair FES the fact that they said it was a coach involved in finals at the end of the season is the only reason everyone thought it was Cotter in the first place.

They should have said nothing and just left it at 'We're still in the process of deciding on a new coach' - done!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 May 2013, 11:45 am

The big error was saying that they'd appointed someone. Whoever advised them on PR in that regard should be re-deployed to cleaning the toilets in the St James Centre.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 20 May 2013, 11:47 am

The SRU can be blamed for a lot of it but the media have had a sniff of who it might be and ran with it. The SRU are pretty useless at the best of times but can't be singled out for blame.

by **RDW** Mon 20 May 2013, 11:47 am

I’ve always wondered what it takes to get a job with the SRU – I know nothing about marketing but over the years I’ve always thought I could do a significantly better job than whoever does the Edinburgh marketing!

by SecretFly Mon 20 May 2013, 11:48 am

I know it'll mean nothing in real terms to Scotland's exploits - but if he comes to Scotland after having lost the HC final AND a Top 14 final, it'll be an edgy publicity event. Fingers will be crossed in Scotland that he wins something between now and the announcement....just to give that announcement a bit of an extra buzz.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 May 2013, 11:56 am

Radge - surely it's not beyond the SRU's comprehension to understand what the media will do. They have a PR department - what on earth do they do there?

Telling the media that you've appointed someone but will tell them who it is later is a red rag to a bull. Of course they sniffed it out and ran with it. I imagine Vern Cotter is already extremely angry with the SRU for their handling of this. Clearly the last thing he wanted at this time was him and his players having to give interviews about the Scotland position.

As for Cotter's track record of trophies, I'm not that bothered. Clermont play great rugby and he's coached at the highest level. My expectations were set far lower than Cotter!

by **George Carlin** Mon 20 May 2013, 12:32 pm

SecretFly wrote:I know it'll mean nothing in real terms to Scotland's exploits - but if he comes to Scotland after having lost the HC final AND a Top 14 final, it'll be an edgy publicity event. Fingers will be crossed in Scotland that he wins something between now and the announcement....just to give that announcement a bit of an extra buzz.

Castres will now face Clermont this weekend (May 25) for a place in the final with Toulon tackling defending champions Toulouse in the other semi, who beat Racing Metro 33-19 last Friday. So it could be another Clermont v Toulon final - this time at the Stade de France.

Not too worried about Castres unless Clermont keep conceding stupid penalties, which means Kockott could kick them out.

by **RDW** Mon 20 May 2013, 12:33 pm

Is the squashed goblin gonna be involved? (apologies for off topic)

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 May 2013, 1:17 pm

If he is he'll have a job against Nalaga and Sivivatu!

I still don't think we can be down on Cotter if he doesn't win something this season. For example I'd be pretty pleased were Scotland to make it to the World Cup final in 2015, even if we lost in the final. I think I'd take that....

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 20 May 2013, 1:19 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:If he is he'll have a job against Nalaga and Sivivatu!

I still don't think we can be down on Cotter if he doesn't win something this season. For example I'd be pretty pleased were Scotland to make it to the World Cup final in 2015, even if we lost in the final. I think I'd take that....

Ambitious... I like it! Scotland for RWC runners up 2015!

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 May 2013, 1:31 pm

You know me - ever the optimist!

by kiakahaaotearoa Mon 20 May 2013, 3:25 pm

No one expected to beat NZ in the final anyway so a very good result indeed. Very Happy

by funnyExiledScot Mon 20 May 2013, 3:59 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:No one expected to beat NZ in the final anyway so a very good result indeed.

Indeed true, but it's going to be a "moral victory" for Scotland. Something to do with a poisoned haggis the night before (waitress called Suzie Umaga) and Wayne Barnes missing a crucial forward pass allowing Dagg to score the winning try.

by TJ1 Mon 20 May 2013, 9:25 pm

Its perfectly possible for scotland to get back into the top 8 in the world, Win or come close to winning a six nations and a quarter or semi in the next world cup. That would look good on any coaches CV from where we are now.

The SRU really are incompetent at PR stuff tho. Thats so badly handled its not true. Bumbling amateurs

by kiakahaaotearoa Mon 20 May 2013, 9:31 pm

Karma works out in the end FES!

Those are increasingly difficult goals TJ but anything's possible. If Cotter can leave a legacy, it is to continue the road that has still yet to be opened up by other coaches. Namely balancing a pack that can squeeze out oppositions and backs that can punish teams on the counter attack and open play without compromising the Scottish defence. A tall order but further inroads to that road have to be made. At the moment too many mudslides are burying it too often.

by TJ1 Mon 20 May 2013, 10:19 pm

My point is that could he take Scotland to results like that it would look very good for him for the NZ post after the next WC. Its a great opportunity for him Its a good group of players who are young and have not shown their best yet. I think its a smart move both for him and by the SRU. Its the only way we will ever get a top coach. Get em when they are ambitious on their way up

by Scrumdown Mon 20 May 2013, 11:26 pm

TJ wrote:My point is that could he take Scotland to results like that it would look very good for him for the NZ post after the next WC. Its a great opportunity for him Its a good group of players who are young and have not shown their best yet. I think its a smart move both for him and by the SRU. Its the only way we will ever get a top coach. Get em when they are ambitious on their way up

In a way, you can see why the scotland job would be more attractive to Cotter than the Ireland Job.

O'driscoll, heaslip, sexton, bowe, o'connel, donnacha ryan, rory best, mike ross, kearney and d'arcy will all be in their 30's by the next world cup.

On the other hand for scotland, the likes of grant, gray, maitland, visser, hogg, matt scott, are still improving and therefore you feel that there is more room for improvement within the scotland team.

by **profitius** Tue 21 May 2013, 12:10 am

Scrumdown wrote:
TJ wrote:My point is that could he take Scotland to results like that it would look very good for him for the NZ post after the next WC. Its a great opportunity for him Its a good group of players who are young and have not shown their best yet. I think its a smart move both for him and by the SRU. Its the only way we will ever get a top coach. Get em when they are ambitious on their way up

In a way, you can see why the scotland job would be more attractive to Cotter than the Ireland Job.

O'driscoll, heaslip, sexton, bowe, o'connel, donnacha ryan, rory best, mike ross, kearney and d'arcy will all be in their 30's by the next world cup.

On the other hand for scotland, the likes of grant, gray, maitland, visser, hogg, matt scott, are still improving and therefore you feel that there is more room for improvement within the scotland team.

Plenty of new players coming along in Ireland too Scrum.

by kiakahaaotearoa Tue 21 May 2013, 6:13 am

The Scottish job is more appealing as there's a vacancy. England and France and then SA remain. The worlds are aligning and NZ coaches will soon be in charge of all the big unions.

Cue Dr Evil laugh. Laugh

by **George Carlin** Tue 21 May 2013, 7:11 am

profitius wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:
TJ wrote:My point is that could he take Scotland to results like that it would look very good for him for the NZ post after the next WC. Its a great opportunity for him Its a good group of players who are young and have not shown their best yet. I think its a smart move both for him and by the SRU. Its the only way we will ever get a top coach. Get em when they are ambitious on their way up

In a way, you can see why the scotland job would be more attractive to Cotter than the Ireland Job.

O'driscoll, heaslip, sexton, bowe, o'connel, donnacha ryan, rory best, mike ross, kearney and d'arcy will all be in their 30's by the next world cup.

On the other hand for scotland, the likes of grant, gray, maitland, visser, hogg, matt scott, are still improving and therefore you feel that there is more room for improvement within the scotland team.

Plenty of new players coming along in Ireland too Scrum.

Totally true Profitius. I think that the difference is that the youngfellers described above are Scotland's first choice players already whereas the old farts described above are Ireland's first choices and look likely to carry on in that role until injury or retirement forces them out. I think if the Sexton/Jackson injury debacle showed anything, it's that Deccie wasn't the most trusting with his young talent.

The fact that the SRU have apparently offered Cotter a wheelbarrow of cash and a sedan chair in which he will be carried around Edinburgh may also have been a consideration.

by funnyExiledScot Tue 21 May 2013, 9:11 am

George Carlin wrote:The fact that the SRU have apparently offered Cotter a wheelbarrow of cash and a sedan chair in which he will be carried around Edinburgh may also have been a consideration.

It'll be nice having another sedan chair user in Edinburgh. Carbon neutral after all!

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