Scotland Coach

First topic message reminder :

Breaking news; Mark Dodson, SR CEO, announces "We have concluded our search for a head coach and will announce that in coming weeks."

Any Ideas? sounds like its someone still in a job

GLove39 wrote:Little thought here, but that Osprey coach, Humphries, that the SRU hired a month or so back to be forwards coach is on a 2 year contract.
What if when Vern finally gets to Edinburgh properly he wants a forwards coach of his choosing???

Cotter may have had an input in this, Dodson says "“We did our business with Vern some months ago" and Vern says "I’m delighted that Jonathan Humphreys has joined the coaching team". I guess it depends how his performance goes over the next year, however as Cotter is a forwards coach I wouldn't actually expect him to have a forwards assistant at all, he will want to appoint a backs man when he takes over so perhaps Humphries will be moved to a newly created post, as the SRU like to do.

The positive things to take from this would be that seeing out his contract at Clermont displays a degree of loyalty which is a good quality to have, also he is going to have input to Johnson et al between now and next year, so I expect he will let them know what sort of rugby he wants the side to be playing, might even have input on selection as well to ensure a smooth transition.

SecretFly wrote:So, he's already getting paid for services to Scotland and yet it will be a full year before he devotes his full concentration to the Scottish job?

I should think he gets paid when his contract starts. That's from June 2014.

If he is getting some sort of fee to retain him and for his "advice", it will be nothing like a full salary.

This situation is far from ideal, but it will hopefully be worth it in the long run to get a decent coach, after sitting through the Williams, Hadden and Robinson eras I can put up with waiting a bit longer to get the right man.

Unorthodox arrangement by the SRU, most of the time you wouldn't see a national team allowing prior circumstance (Cotter's Clermont contract) to dictate the procedure or persisting if their preferred option isn't available asap, which he isn't.

Hard to see Scotland's WC prep going too smoothly if their man's only been in charge a year by the time it starts. Normally takes at least two years to build a side capable of mounting a serious challenge. Of all the semi-finalists in the last one every one of them had had its coaching staff in place for at least four years. And the quarter-finalists all at least 2-3 years. Some might not see that as relevant but it's only my opinion.

What if Warren Gatland accepts an offer from Clermont to become their coach as has been suggested in the welsh press. Would Cotter then be a target for Wales as well as Scotland?

A lot can happen in a year. What if Johnson and Humphreys perform well and Cotter disappoints with Clermont?

Scrumdown wrote:What if Warren Gatland accepts an offer from Clermont to become their coach as has been suggested in the welsh press. Would Cotter then be a target for Wales as well as Scotland?

A lot can happen in a year. What if Johnson and Humphreys perform well and Cotter disappoints with Clermont?

You seem to be all doom and gloom scrumdown, implying the welsh want to nick our national coach is a bit of an outlandish notion to say the least

Tramptastic wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:What if Warren Gatland accepts an offer from Clermont to become their coach as has been suggested in the welsh press. Would Cotter then be a target for Wales as well as Scotland?

A lot can happen in a year. What if Johnson and Humphreys perform well and Cotter disappoints with Clermont?

You seem to be all doom and gloom scrumdown, implying the welsh want to nick our national coach is a bit of an outlandish notion to say the least

Yeah, before he's even begun his duties at that.

Warren Gatland go to Clermont a year before a WC? If he does, it's a truck load of gold bullion he'd do it for.

I don't think the man in money driven but passion and honour driven. Which is the bigger carrot? Clermont - Top14/possible HC....or..... WC on your doorstep with England as hosts, and a possible All Blacks call up at the end of a good campaign?

Tramptastic wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:What if Warren Gatland accepts an offer from Clermont to become their coach as has been suggested in the welsh press. Would Cotter then be a target for Wales as well as Scotland?

A lot can happen in a year. What if Johnson and Humphreys perform well and Cotter disappoints with Clermont?

You seem to be all doom and gloom scrumdown, implying the welsh want to nick our national coach is a bit of an outlandish notion to say the least

My point is the rugby landscape could have changed significantly by june 2014 and there may be better options out there than cotter. What if Robbie Deans is sacked following the lions tour for example? Wayne Smith might be available in 2014 too and if there is a £1million contract on offer then why would they not be interested?

Scrumdown wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:What if Warren Gatland accepts an offer from Clermont to become their coach as has been suggested in the welsh press. Would Cotter then be a target for Wales as well as Scotland?

A lot can happen in a year. What if Johnson and Humphreys perform well and Cotter disappoints with Clermont?

You seem to be all doom and gloom scrumdown, implying the welsh want to nick our national coach is a bit of an outlandish notion to say the least

My point is the rugby landscape could have changed significantly by june 2014 and there may be better options out there than cotter. What if Robbie Deans is sacked following the lions tour for example? Wayne Smith might be available in 2014 too and if there is a £1million contract on offer then why would they not be interested?

Robbie Deans is a no, we've had enough of other countries rejects and we don't have enough players for him to stop dropping the best ones.
Wayne Smith's ruled himself out

Clermont have been the best team in Europe this season and should have won and the appointment is a good one unfortunately the manner of it was wrong

Knowsit17 wrote:Unorthodox arrangement by the SRU, most of the time you wouldn't see a national team allowing prior circumstance (Cotter's Clermont contract) to dictate the procedure or persisting if their preferred option isn't available asap, which he isn't...

Delays aren't unknown. Martin Johnson was appointed months before he finally took control of England. It's definitely a lot stranger to wait a whole club season.

It's not necessarily a bad idea to take a long view to get the right man. When England looked for a replacement for Johnson, it was striking that we were limited to those coaches who were available at the time. After everyone pulled out, that left us with Nick Mallet as the only big name interested. At a different time in the cycle, more club coaches, or people snubbed for their national jobs, might have thrown their hats into the ring.

I think its a very good decision personally. Most of us expected johnson to get the job straight after AR resigned, instead the SRU took their time and have now managed to get one of the finest coaches in rugby. A coach who was linked with Ireland and England when they were both looking for a new head coach. So how can Scottish fans complain? Johnson, Taylor and Humphries till 2014, then we get Cotter, and Johnson switches to director. It seems pretty decent to me, more than Scotland's international record is worthy of in my opinion. Plus, now we're going to get to see some more brilliant interviews from Johnson over the next year

A chicken might have breasts but would you fall for one in a bikini?

So what happens if Sj wins us the Summer tour competition, we get a big SH scalp in the AIs and come in the top half of the 6N table?

I know it is pretty unlikely but a lot can happen in rugby in a year...

SecretFly wrote:A chicken might have breasts but would you fall for one in a bikini?

Whether or not a being has breasts is irrelevant, Ann Widdicombe has breasts but the idea of her in a bikini would make an innocent man confess to any crime.

RDW_Scotland wrote:So what happens if Sj wins us the Summer tour competition, we get a big SH scalp in the AIs and come in the top half of the 6N table?

I know it is pretty unlikely but a lot can happen in rugby in a year...

It's the Bayern Munich method - sack when your winning

I agree with Knowsit but also with Bsando. I've almost got the irritation out of my system now and what will also be true is that in a year's time when Cotter is here, we won't care that his appointment was something of a PR Horlicks.

I'd rather have a very good coach in a year than Chick Chalmers now. And be in no doubt, Cotter has been a success in every coaching job he has ever taken. Schmidt regards him as an equal and has said so many times. Clermont may have fallen at the last hurdle but when he got hold of the team, they were mid table fodder at best.

It's true that there may be more appealing options in a year's time but the vast majority of them will still be much, much worse. Let's be honest, it's a better appointment than a lot of us felt we could get and the glass should definitely be regarded as half full. Brimming, in fact.

If we waited for a year, we could have lost him to another team's national coaching set-up. Stupid though Dodson and his Merry Men are, I'm presuming at least that Cotter has signed something, even if an old Tunnock's wrapper.

A lot can happen in a year - including Cotter getting the coaching team around him that he wants. He won't be a stranger around Edinburgh over the next year either, you can be sure.

So let's move on. The SRU has bigger problems, such as finding a coach for Edinburgh a couple of weeks before the pre-season starts.

Of course he could turn out to be a worse selector than Robinson - after all, he consistently selected Fofana and Rougerie ahead of the Messiah!

Someone is taking the pish here. Either Cotter for signing and the not (being able to?) secure a release from Clermont or the SRU for declaring it was signed, sealed and delivered when it patently wasn't.
I started a thread and the Kiwi posters were unimpressed by Cotter/his credentials. Why wait a year for a guy who, it could be argued bearing in mind Clermont's resources, hasn't set the heather on fire?
I fear this could be the latest of a few mistakes from Murrayfield

Cotter's not suddenly going to turn into an appalling coach in a year though, surely?

No but is he really that great a coach just now? The Kiwi posters were unimpressed by him when I asked the question and, given the players and money at his disposal at Clermont, he hasn't done spectacularly well.
That said, I don't think that Scotland's head coach will be in the top 10 of coaching roles (especially if you agree that coach of a SXV franchise, Leinster, Leicester etc rank above us) so we can't realistically expect a world beater
I am not totally despondent about the appointment but I am about the year of everyone being in limbo

I have to agree with InjuredYetAgain.

There was a lot of talk here earlier about Scotland embarrassing itself (this was before it was known that Cotter and SRU had finally declared that he'll take on Scotland next year)

And that Scottish self-disgust was kinda annoying me on some level and I started to ask myself just what has Cotter achieved in real terms, given the robust and exciting style of rugby he has his team play and the classy players he's brought in to play it?

I was going to suggest that perhaps the SRU weren't the 'idiots' they were been classed as and maybe they simply got cold feet.

It turns out my slant on it was wrong, Cotter is going to Scotland, but the question probably remains - is his reputation as shiny as all the publicity makes it out to be?

He has been seven years so far with high spending Clermont, and in that time he's been consistently operating on the higher end of Top14. But he has only taken one Top 14 title and has only been to a HC final once (losing out this season).
When he was with Crusaders it wasn't as head coach.
When he was Head Coach at Bay of Plenty I think he took one second division title in five seasons.

He obviously has something but as much as his good reputation rolls on, his trait of under-achieving continues into this second from last season with Clermont too.

SecretFly wrote:I have to agree with InjuredYetAgain.

is his reputation as shiny as all the publicity makes it out to be?

He has been seven years so far with high spending Clermont, and in that time he's been consistently operating on the higher end of Top14. But he has only taken one Top 14 title and has only been to a HC final once (losing out this season).
When he was with Crusaders it wasn't as head coach.
When he was Head Coach at Bay of Plenty I think he took one second division title in five seasons.

He obviously has something but as much as his good reputation rolls on, his trait of under-achieving continues into this second from last season with Clermont too.

Well can you remember how poor Clermont were in 2005?, I assure you they weren't in the best state....... the guy has done wonders to bring them to be arguably the best team in Europe. As of this moment CA finished on the summit of the Top 14 scoring the most points and conceding the fewest. and were HC finalists, and the man is disappointed at their achievements this season (we all know Clermont lost the HC final rather than Toulon winning it)....... that speaks volumes for Cotter. Before that he was a 36yr old young inexperienced coach with B of P in early 2000, then moved to the Crusaders as forwards coach where they came 2nd (to Brumbies), then 1st, 1st. So tell me how he is an underachieving coach?

The SRU have obviously honoured his wishes not to disclose anything until after the 2013 HC final but stated (in hindsight perhaps not the best move) that the search was concluded which in essence it was, and it isn't unusual to pin a man to a contract 6-12 months ahead. I cant see any problems.

Good move for us........... Johnson interim in charge, a pretty decent forwards coach in Humphreys with Cotter giving advice as and when required. All in all a good bit of business and lets look forward to the massive event in June - The Summer Tri-angular Tour

FHF - do you know if the tournament is on TV?

flyhalffactory wrote:

SecretFly wrote:I have to agree with InjuredYetAgain.

is his reputation as shiny as all the publicity makes it out to be?

He has been seven years so far with high spending Clermont, and in that time he's been consistently operating on the higher end of Top14. But he has only taken one Top 14 title and has only been to a HC final once (losing out this season).
When he was with Crusaders it wasn't as head coach.
When he was Head Coach at Bay of Plenty I think he took one second division title in five seasons.

He obviously has something but as much as his good reputation rolls on, his trait of under-achieving continues into this second from last season with Clermont too.

Well can you remember how poor Clermont in 2005?, I assure you they weren't in the best state....... the guy has done wonders to bring them to be arguably the best team in Europe. As of this moment CA finished on the summit of the Top 14 scoring the most points and conceding the fewest. and were HC finalists, and the man is disappointed at their achievements this season (we all know Clermont lost the HC final rather than Toulon winning it)....... that speaks volumes for Cotter. Before that he was a 36yr old young inexperienced coach with B of P in early 2000, then moved to the Crusaders as forwards coach where they came 2nd (to Brumbies), then 1st, 1st. So tell me how he is an underachieving coach?

The SRU have obviously honoured his wishes not to disclose anything until after the 2013 HC final but stated (in hindsight perhaps not the best move) that the search was concluded which in essence it was, and it isn't unusual to pin a man to a contract 6-12 months ahead. I cant see any problems.

Good move for us........... Johnson interim in charge, a pretty decent forwards coach in Humphreys with Cotter giving advice as and when required. All in all a good bit of business and lets look forward to the massive event in June - The Summer Tri-angular Tour

Agreed FHF! Now's no time to be dour, I know this is our favourite past-time as Scotland supporters but at least it's a relatively decent coach this time! He's definitely the hard nosed operator Scotland needs!

InjuredYetAgain wrote:FHF - do you know if the tournament is on TV?

The Scotland games are on SKY

InjuredYetAgain wrote:FHF - do you know if the tournament is on TV?

I think but not 100% sure that Sky Sports 2 is covering it...... cheers

Game on!!! The Lions and a near full strength Scotland to watch in the same summer. Looks like I might suffer from rickets from sun deprivation again as I will not be leaving the sofa for some time

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Game on!!! The Lions and a near full strength Scotland to watch in the same summer. Looks like I might suffer from rickets from sun deprivation again as I will not be leaving the sofa for some time

Might be even worse for you mate better stock up on the pot noodles............. have a gander at this fixture list (divorce material if there was ever was!!)

http://www.wheresthematch.com/channels/SKY-Sports.asp?sportid=3

an example!!

Saturday 8th June 2013 all on Sky Sports 2

08:35am New Zealand v France

10:30am Reds v British Lions

02:30pm Scotland v Samoa

03.30pm? South Africa v Italy

the last one I am sure is at 5.30pm

Looks like Sky +, the pizza shop and the offy are going to take a hammering too then. My settee will look like Homer Simpson's with two great big cheek impressions in one of the cushions

Hey guys, I've been on temporary hiatus from 606 for the last two weeks, recovering a bit of strength for the June rugger onslaught and trying to get some work done... I'll be back for the summer tour, I promise.

Just wanted to marvel (as everyone seems to have done) at the SRU's arch incompetence. It would take a forehead bigger than Toonie's and a palm bigger than Chris Ashton's right forearm to create the required facepalm for this situation. I mean, honestly.

Incidentally, what happens when we win a grand slam next year with SJ? Seriously, I don't know.

One last thing - big thanks to Asbo for his recommendation of the Clachan Inn in Drymen to watch the Glasgow playoff - great food, good beer selection, and some interesting characters... exactly what I needed!

Knowsit17 wrote:Unorthodox arrangement by the SRU, most of the time you wouldn't see a national team allowing prior circumstance (Cotter's Clermont contract) to dictate the procedure or persisting if their preferred option isn't available asap, which he isn't.

Hard to see Scotland's WC prep going too smoothly if their man's only been in charge a year by the time it starts. Normally takes at least two years to build a side capable of mounting a serious challenge. Of all the semi-finalists in the last one every one of them had had its coaching staff in place for at least four years. And the quarter-finalists all at least 2-3 years. Some might not see that as relevant but it's only my opinion.

Unorthodox yes, but i'm sure he'll have plenty of input in to the team and with the Int season only being a few key times he won't have to let it impact on Clermont too much if he's going to spend time liaising/advising the Scotland team.

Also to be honest can anyone see Scotland challenging this WC? Maybe, but if they do it'll be down to the players over the coaches anyway. England's rebuild started with MJ and is now in full swing with SL but is still probably not going to be on time. Scotland are behind that so whether Cotter is there this season or next won't matter, what will is him then sticking post WC and helping to build. Some pain and a protracted wait for long term success hopefully.

yappysnap wrote:Also to be honest can anyone see Scotland challenging this WC?

843 days to go before the next World Cup......... You don't have to worry yourself on our score, we'll concentrate on the present.......

Pre Cotter
2013 (June) Summer Triangular Tournament SA/Samoa/Italy
2013 (Nov) Autumn Series Japan/SA/Australia.
2014 6Ns

Post Cotter
2014.......... well he will have had a twelve months blanket view of his "new team"........ That actually could work to our advantage

Have a chat to us then, might be able to provide you with a clearer crystal ball

Poor Mr Cotter is going to be under pressure to deliver at Clermont now because their fans may turn against him if things don't go well.

SRU should just pay the compensation and get him on board ASAP or once Clermont find a replacement because they should already be starting that process, they find a replacement, Scotland get Cotter, its that Simple .

Very happy with appointment but wanted him to take charge of Autumn tests, it may happen but only if Useless Mr Dodson PAYS UP!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/scotland/10082994/Scotland-in-battle-to-secure-Vern-Cotters-early-release-from-Clermont-Auvergne.html.

From the Scotsman
"On that issue, Dodson would not be drawn, but the SRU are believed to be close to capturing another southern hemisphere figure for the Edinburgh post. The Scotsman understands that they are in talks with an experienced former Test coach currently involved in the Super Rugby Championship, and that Stevie Scott will continue as interim head coach in pre-season until the new man flies into Edinburgh. That move is expected to be effected in time for the start of the new season, however."



So much for nurturing Scottish coaching talent.

Seems to be a half baked haggis of an idea....invest in a top coach but only give him a year pre RWC on a 2 year deal. Why not buy him out of Clermont now? What can he do in a year to reverse the fortunes of the team?

flyhalffactory wrote:

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Game on!!! The Lions and a near full strength Scotland to watch in the same summer. Looks like I might suffer from rickets from sun deprivation again as I will not be leaving the sofa for some time

Might be even worse for you mate better stock up on the pot noodles............. have a gander at this fixture list (divorce material if there was ever was!!)

http://www.wheresthematch.com/channels/SKY-Sports.asp?sportid=3

an example!!

Saturday 8th June 2013 all on Sky Sports 2

08:35am New Zealand v France

10:30am Reds v British Lions

02:30pm Scotland v Samoa

03.30pm? South Africa v Italy

the last one I am sure is at 5.30pm

Here are the match times and dates (South African time)

8 Scotland v Samoa Growthpoint KINGS PARK, Durban 14:15
8 South Africa v Italy Growthpoint KINGS PARK, Durban 17:15
15 Samoa v Italy Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit 14:15
15 South Africa v Scotland Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit 17:15
22 Scotland/Samoa/Italy v Italy/Scotland/Samoa Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
22 South Africa v Italy/Scotland/Samoa Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria

IanBru wrote:Hey guys, I've been on temporary hiatus from 606 for the last two weeks, recovering a bit of strength for the June rugger onslaught and trying to get some work done... I'll be back for the summer tour, I promise.

Just wanted to marvel (as everyone seems to have done) at the SRU's arch incompetence. It would take a forehead bigger than Toonie's and a palm bigger than Chris Ashton's right forearm to create the required facepalm for this situation. I mean, honestly.

Incidentally, what happens when we win a grand slam next year with SJ? Seriously, I don't know.

One last thing - big thanks to Asbo for his recommendation of the Clachan Inn in Drymen to watch the Glasgow playoff - great food, good beer selection, and some interesting characters... exactly what I needed!

Bru, glad that you enjoyed the Clachan, and I hope the rest of the walk went well? Am jealous that you've been thru some beautiful scenery and will have seen some wonderful sights.

There's no doubt that Cotter is a quality appointment, Ignoring the odd dig from our NH brethren, and I hope at there has actually been a contract signed with a start date for June14, with an option to bring it forward, with some advisory work prior to the official start date (including a huge say in who the backs coach will be, the final piece of the puzzle). It is a shame that he will only have an AI series and one 6Ns before the RWC but we'll just have to accept that as we can't afford to buy him out early. The manner in which the announcement was handled was poor and sadly reminiscent of Toonie's appointment at Glasgow, which shows a real lack of lessons learned. If Cotter goes wel in his two years, then we should sign him to an extension that takes him to post Japan RWC, but let's see how he goes first. I'm more worried about the next year tho, as Johnson's tactics at the breakdown in the 6Ns this year were mighty unimpressive, and despite the results, we shouldn't kid ourselves that we have completely turned the corner yet - we need to massively develop the gameplan in this coming tour to push on

Agreed Asbo, we do have a good forwards coach, though, so hopefully that will leave Scott to concentrate on back play and giving dry and acerbic banter to our esteemed members of the press.

I would hope and expect Cotter to already be involved in conversations about gameplan and player use during the quad tournament and I fully expect the cameras to catch him in the stands for at least one of the games. As reports say, he is on a retainer as a consultant over the next year.

The bottom line is that I genuinely believe he is happy to take the Scotland job. I couldn't give a flying proverbial if it's his audition piece for the All Blacks job. I also think that his friend Mr Schmidt taking the Ireland job would have given him food for thought as to what his next step should be.

I also could not care less that Edinburgh's next coach might be from Super Rugby. I just want good candidates to come to Scotland. We can always tempt the likes of Chalmers back in years to come once he's tired of the Cambridgeshire countryside.

It can't be that much to buy him out of the Clermont contract.

its not even a question of money. Cotter had one year of contract and it's not an option for Clermont to start a season without a coach. they usually plan things well in advance there.

This has been episodic at best. Vern coming in is all fine and well but what if he has a bad season at Clermont? Where will that leave him with their fans and will we tollerate him coming in if he has a poor final season. This is a distinct possibility considering that this will be his final season.

Furthermore what if Scott Johnson improves on third in this years 6N, as unlikely as it is what happens if he gets the slam?

I don't like planning things a year in advance, thats is a long time in rugby terms.

Agree with you Radge.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Well can you remember how poor Clermont were in 2005?, I assure you they weren't in the best state....... the guy has done wonders to bring them to be arguably the best team in Europe. As of this moment CA finished on the summit of the Top 14 scoring the most points and conceding the fewest. and were HC finalists, and the man is disappointed at their achievements this season (we all know Clermont lost the HC final rather than Toulon winning it)....... that speaks volumes for Cotter. Before that he was a 36yr old young inexperienced coach with B of P in early 2000, then moved to the Crusaders as forwards coach where they came 2nd (to Brumbies), then 1st, 1st. So tell me how he is an underachieving coach?

Well firstly Fly, .... an underachieving coach is invariably in the 'good coach' bracket. Bad ones don't underachieve, only good ones. So suggesting he underachieves isn't a slur. There's hope for old Cotter at International level. Maybe International Will be the vehicle that truly establishes his credentials. Six Nations Championships? A WC final or indeed win? Who knows. It's an adventure the Scottish will be anticipating with lots of hope.

But to get back to the underachieving slice of my argument and your question. Yeah, I'd say I'm still pretty much adamant that up to this point his present side have been underachieving. (And I've been saying so before I ever knew he was connected to the Scottish job)

By the time he now leaves Clermont at the end of next season, his absolute best tally for his eight seasons will be two Top14 titles and one HC (assuming he has a classic year and wins every competition Clermont enter). Maybe that will be classed as a good run by some but eight years is a long period of opportunity to prove you have the best side in Europe, especially as he hit the ground running with three Top14 runner-up spots in his first three seasons.

I agree with Fly (though to be fair he has also won the Amlin Cup)

One Amlin Cup and one Top 14 is a poor record. Thats around the level of Biarritz or Perpignan not a truly top class European side.

Clermont have suffered from New Zealand syndrome though. I think we could all agree their style of Rugby is the best a European club has produced over the last few years (Leinster Aside).

A steam roller of a pack and quick ellusive backs.

It's a team on paper that should crush all opposition. Just like the All Blacks they are prone to choking. Is that the coaches fault that the occasion gets the better of the players and they forget how to play the rugby that got them into the finals of all these tournaments?

To be fair, when you look at our previous coaches you have to go back to McGeechan before you find anyone with a proven track record at the highest level, so Cotter is probably one of the best we've had in a long time:


Andy Robinson - great success as a coach but disastrous spell as head coach with England

Frank Hadden - limited success with Edinburgh

Matt Williams - the least said the better.


We've got to remember where we are in world rugby - Vern Cotter is a massive acquisition.

Oh forgot to ask. maybe this was mentioned higher up, but does anyone know how long Cotter has signed for? Up to the WC or past it?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Clermont have suffered from New Zealand syndrome though. I think we could all agree their style of Rugby is the best a European club has produced over the last few years (Leinster Aside).

A steam roller of a pack and quick ellusive backs.

It's a team on paper that should crush all opposition. Just like the All Blacks they are prone to choking. Is that the coaches fault that the occasion gets the better of the players and they forget how to play the rugby that got them into the finals of all these tournaments?

If it is on a consistent basis then yes. A once off brain fart or off day can be forgiven. But when it is a near annual event it can't be ignored. It would be the responsibility of a coach and captain to keep a side mentally prepared.

Look at Gatland for the opposite effect. Wales can lose to Samoa/Argentina etc in the friendly games but when it comes to the must win 6 Nations games he seems to fine a way of getting them primed.

RDW_Scotland wrote:To be fair, when you look at our previous coaches you have to go back to McGeechan before you find anyone with a proven track record at the highest level, so Cotter is probably one of the best we've had in a long time:


Andy Robinson - great success as a coach but disastrous spell as head coach with England

Frank Hadden - limited success with Edinburgh

Matt Williams - the least said the better.


We've got to remember where we are in world rugby - Vern Cotter is a massive acquisition.

Oh definitely. It's a nice purchase for Scotland. I'm sure he'll drive them down the right tracks. With Glasgow playing such heavy and beautiful stuff, with Scotland itself learning to score tries again even in advance of his coming, there is a lot to look forward to with Scotland. If Schmidt wasn't in the running for Ireland, I certainly wouldn't have said no to Cotter.