Scotland Coach

by allyt2k Sun 05 May 2013, 1:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

Breaking news; Mark Dodson, SR CEO, announces "We have concluded our search for a head coach and will announce that in coming weeks."

Any Ideas? sounds like its someone still in a job

by Solid8 Thu 23 May 2013, 12:04 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I've not watched much Super XV - who have been the standouts that we wouldn't other know about?

Biltong - what's your thoughts on this one? You're normally hovering about somewhere!

Coenie Oosthuizen is an absolute beast if this is anything to go on:

by **George Carlin** Thu 23 May 2013, 12:05 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:From that list the players that worry me are du Plessis (hooker), Etzebeth, Coetzee and Alberts in the pack, and Hougaard, Lambie, de Jongh and Aplon in the backs.

There's a fair few on that list, particularly the backs, I don't know about though.

Hopefully Morne Steyn will be at 10.....

Actually Steyn has been in amazeballs form in the Super rugby competition so I'd almost rather have Lambie at the moment.

Two others that worry me are Willie le Roux who is new but unbelievably quick (I'm talking JJ Williams quick) and Coenie Oosthuizen who is a massive loosehead prop (about 130kg) who seems to be scoring tries for fun at the moment. A lot like a WP Nel version 2.0.

Just generally, if they stick the Cheetahs team out there, then we're going to be defending like crazy.

by **George Carlin** Thu 23 May 2013, 12:05 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well volunteered GC!

by funnyExiledScot Thu 23 May 2013, 12:10 pm

Oh, I think we'll be defending like crazy whatever side the Boks put out.

Oosthuizen sounds like a worrying prospect. Lucky the good reverend Murray will be with us to check out his scrummaging technique. Big bullish props in the loose can often overlook the importance of technique in the scrum. I know nothing about this guy, but I hope that's the case here (cue Biltong telling me that he's an awesome scrummager as well.....).

by Majestic83 Thu 23 May 2013, 12:17 pm

Oosthuizen is a very good prop and for his size has great speed about the park. Him and nel formed a great duo last season for the cheetahs and were scoring most of the tries.
Slow start to this season for Oosthuizen but the past couple weeks has got his starting spot back and is in form.

Another cheetah to watch out for is Robert Ebersohn who plays 12 or 13. Most in form centre in SA just now and has really been tearing the opposition to shreds, seems really solid in defence too. Could put the pressure on de villiers for the 12 jersey.

by **George Carlin** Thu 23 May 2013, 12:41 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Well volunteered GC!

https://www.606v2.com/t44416-quadrangular-tournament-8-23-june
Don't say that I never do anything for you. warning

by Imperialbigdave Fri 24 May 2013, 8:32 pm

After a week of drinking and something else-ing my way across eastern europe, I come back to find more drugs being smoked here than I definitely didnt this week. I mean comon! Maroon trousers?!? I think youll find that maroon is so last summer. Burgandy is where its at.

Back to rugby, while all the south africans mentioned above are scarily good players, hell will freeze over before Meyer plays Ebersohn, Le Roux, and Oosthuizen all at the same time. Too dynamic and likely to have a mind of their own for his liking.

Maybe Biltong can answer this. Whatever happened to Johan Sadie? I heard him talked up a few years ago, but never really noticed him other than that he keeps changing clubs. Also, how would you rate/compare Jordaan, JJ Engelbrecht, and Serfontein against each other? All seem to be hot young centres, but I cant say ive watched any of them significantly other than perhaps Jordaan.

by GLove39 Sat 25 May 2013, 5:35 pm

Ouch, Clermont knocked out of the top 14 semi final by Castres..
Now what Vern Cotter needs is a pick me up & what could be better then coaching Scotland..????

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sat 25 May 2013, 6:04 pm

B*gger, I fear that will leave him with unfinished business

by **George Carlin** Sat 25 May 2013, 6:11 pm

No, no, no. Oh sh!tting hell. More predictable than an episode of Grand Designs. picard

The worst case scenario for Scotland has now come to pass.
Cotter has one year left on his contract and he may well decide to stay now to 'get the job done'.

McKie's premature chicken counting seems an increasingly damaging thing now.

by jimbopip Sat 25 May 2013, 7:35 pm

As you were lads, as you were.
So Fern Britten can't make it this year, easy we recognise it as a national emergency (which will become an increasingly regular state of affairs with SJ as Numero Uno. Can you imagine being trapped in a lift with him and Niko?) and announce a government of national unity. A government "of all the talents".
We need puppets ware charismatic and yet vacuous to front it while we who know best do the real work in the shadows.
P.M. Big Gav (adored by all, listened to by ???)
Minister for Communications Dylan Hartley
Minister for Justice Nathan Hines
Foreign Minister S Lineen (no change there then)
Minister for Diversity and Exploring Personal Orientations The MFL front five on a rotating basis
Chancellor Alex Salmond (according to him we're the richest nation on Earth, ever!)

I know the last one wasn't strictly a rugby joke but any excuse to slap a professional politician is not to be missed in my manifesto.

by UlstermaninGlasgow Sun 26 May 2013, 11:56 am

Cotter has announced he's staying on for another year with ASM. So it's not him! Blackadder anyone? Or Nick Mallett?

by Pat_Mustard Sun 26 May 2013, 12:39 pm

I think Blackadder already ruled himself out. So the question is, were the SRU talking about Cotter when they said they had secured someone? If so, it's a monumental cockup and they will probably have to extend Johnson's period in charge until they find someone else. If not, then we're back to the guessing game. I'd be happy enough with Mallett.

by whocares Sun 26 May 2013, 12:41 pm

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Cotter has announced he's staying on for another year with ASM. So it's not him! Blackadder anyone? Or Nick Mallett?

Well his current contract last till june 2014. However he did announce that he wont renew.

by **George Carlin** Sun 26 May 2013, 2:37 pm

Blackadder has already ruled himself out.

How could it not have been Cotter? It's just not possible. He's already said that he was approached and he's considering his position. You cannot just make a series of offers and hope someone accepts. One candidate, one offer, one big facepalm. picard

Absolute disaster for Scotland and McKie should seriously consider stepping down if they cannot appoint a good successor. Amateurish beyond belief to make the announcement that he did.

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 26 May 2013, 2:39 pm

Pat_Mustard wrote:

I think Blackadder already ruled himself out. So the question is, were the SRU talking about Cotter when they said they had secured someone? If so, it's a monumental cockup and they will probably have to extend Johnson's period in charge until they find someone else. If not, then we're back to the guessing game. I'd be happy enough with Mallett.

I would assume they have a list of candidates and they'll go for the second best. Bummed it's not Vern but fairplay to him for sticking with Clermont til his contract finishes. It'd be a bit too late to appoint him next summer so I suspect it'll be someone who we've either:

- Not really heard of
- Who has previously failed

This said, if it is Mallett, that'd be pretty awesome, can't see it happening though.

by Manky-Flanker Sun 26 May 2013, 3:49 pm

I can't believe it was Cotter in the first place now. Surely the journalists just got it wrong: Cotter never mentioned Scotland (as far as I can tell) and Scotland never mentioned Cotter after all.

While an idiot can make an idiotic mistake, only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of Idiot could make the sort of self-inflicted PR disaster that the SRU appear to have made if Cotter was indeed the candidate. It's so ridiculous that it can't be true. Scotland must have signed another guy - simple as that.

right? Shocked

Edit: Cotter did mention Scotland, he confirmed that he'd been in contact with them. I thought it was journalistic heresay. My brain is beginning to melt

by **George Carlin** Sun 26 May 2013, 3:55 pm

Manky-Flanker wrote:I can't believe it was Cotter in the first place now. Surely the journalists just got it wrong: Cotter never mentioned Scotland (as far as I can tell) and Scotland never mentioned Cotter after all.

While an idiot can make an idiotic mistake, only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of Idiot could make the sort of self-inflicted PR disaster that the SRU appear to have made if Cotter was indeed the candidate. It's so ridiculous that it can't be true. Scotland must have signed another guy - simple as that.

right?

I want to believe that Manky, but which seems most likely? picard

Either they'll roll out Rod McQueen (ahahahahahahahaha Laugh

), Nick Mallett, Chick Chalmers or Mark Dodson's gardener's parole officer's old college roommate Swampy.

by Manky-Flanker Sun 26 May 2013, 4:20 pm

So SRU, do you have a new coach? do you know his name? can you show us his signed contract?

Its kind of reminiscent of waking up hung-over knowing you drunkenly got a tattoo the night before, but for the life of you you can't recall what the tattoo said or where on your body you put it. monkey

by Scrumdown Sun 26 May 2013, 5:35 pm

As I have said on here previously, Dai Young currently with Wasps seems to be the most plausible candidate.

Scott Johnson has always been fulsome in his praise and has previously stated that he would one day work with Dai Young.

He is currently engaged with the Barbarians and therefore it fits in with SRU statement that appointment will be announced after club commitments have been completed.

by Tramptastic Sun 26 May 2013, 7:37 pm

Scrumdown wrote:As I have said on here previously, Dai Young currently with Wasps seems to be the most plausible candidate.

Scott Johnson has always been fulsome in his praise and has previously stated that he would one day work with Dai Young.

He is currently engaged with the Barbarians and therefore it fits in with SRU statement that appointment will be announced after club commitments have been completed.

No waaaaaaaaay that it is Dai Young. Dai Young's season finished like a month ago so he could have been announced as new Scotland coach then. If you are implying that the baabaas are the reason he's not been announced that's complete tosh! The baabaas are a one off thing, I think both parties (SRU and baabaas) would have no problem with Dai Young coaching the baabaas just before he started coaching Scotland so why all the hush? It's got to be somebody who is currently coaching for a club that is still playing i.e. Souther Hemisphere or NH knock out stages - cannae be Dai Young

by Scrumdown Sun 26 May 2013, 9:17 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:As I have said on here previously, Dai Young currently with Wasps seems to be the most plausible candidate.

Scott Johnson has always been fulsome in his praise and has previously stated that he would one day work with Dai Young.

He is currently engaged with the Barbarians and therefore it fits in with SRU statement that appointment will be announced after club commitments have been completed.

No waaaaaaaaay that it is Dai Young. Dai Young's season finished like a month ago so he could have been announced as new Scotland coach then. If you are implying that the baabaas are the reason he's not been announced that's complete tosh! The baabaas are a one off thing, I think both parties (SRU and baabaas) would have no problem with Dai Young coaching the baabaas just before he started coaching Scotland so why all the hush? It's got to be somebody who is currently coaching for a club that is still playing i.e. Souther Hemisphere or NH knock out stages - cannae be Dai Young

Another reason to suggest that Dai Young is in the running is the fact that Jon Humphries a former team mate of Young and an assistant of Johnson has already been appointed as forward coach.

Cotter would surely want to bring in his own backroom team. Shane Howarth, who is also known to Scott Johnson has also left Wasps. Is he the new backs coach?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sun 26 May 2013, 9:29 pm

Sorry, but for those trying to put a glossy spin on this one, this is only the last in a series of monumental PR man sausage-ups from the blazers at Murrayfield. And Dodson cannot escape this one either - if indeed he was talking about Cotter, which I suspect he was, when he said that he had signed a candidate, then his position is no longer tenable and he MUST go. We are the feicin laughing stock of NH rugby and there's no denying it

by RuggerRadge2611 Sun 26 May 2013, 9:46 pm

This is worse than embarrassing. More to follow when I get a proper keyboard

by shaun.mahon.9 Mon 27 May 2013, 1:40 am

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/vern-cotter-to-take-scotland-rugby-job-in-2014-1-2945157.

What i don't understand is why SRU "don't intend to pay compensation" to release Vern from current contract, what happenedto the "we'll do everything to get our man", stupid arses!!

Heres another article criticising Mark Dodson: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/sru-s-dodson-under-fire-over-prolonged-coach-search-1-2945268.

by EST Mon 27 May 2013, 3:33 am

What a complete farce.

by **George Carlin** Mon 27 May 2013, 8:28 am

shaun.mahon.9 wrote:http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/vern-cotter-to-take-scotland-rugby-job-in-2014-1-2945157.

What i don't understand is why SRU "don't intend to pay compensation" to release Vern from current contract, what happenedto the "we'll do everything to get our man", stupid arses!!

Thanks for this Shaun. The real truth of it is shown here:

[Cotter] said: “We are disappointed not to be able to bring back the European Cup. We got very close to it. But we will bounce back and we’ll get this European title next season in my last at the club. When I arrived, we were eighth [in the Top 14], and now we have played six finals, ten semi-finals, won a European shield, the Top 14 shield and so I can’t wait for the new season.

“The club is in good health and I always said I wanted to leave the club in a better state than I found it. It will happen.”

Absolutely nothing to do with paying compensation, which is disingenuous misdirection by the SRU. It's as plain as the nose on Steve Borthwick that Cotter does not want to leave until he has won something with Clermont that will leave him with a satisfactory legacy.

I would feel sorry for Dodson but this is entirely self-inflicted and he should apologise to Scottish rugby for making it look like organising an inebriation in a distillery would be too much of a skillset stretch. How long did it take Ireland to appoint Schmidt? About ten minutes? I can only assume it's the SRU who were tasked with the Edinburgh Tram and Scottish Parliament.

Edit: The David Ferguson piece mentions that it may be the case that Clermont is refusing to release Cotter because they haven't got a replacement for him yet. If that's true - that's even worse. On what possible basis did Baldymorte think he could issue a release saying he'd got Cotter when his current employers hadn't even signed off on it? picard

by cakeordeath Mon 27 May 2013, 8:38 am

On the bright side, it's a great appointment if true.

by Heuer27 Mon 27 May 2013, 8:59 am

This was not the shambles I was expecting. Shambles yes , complete and utter humiliation ? No ,wasn't expecting that. Well done SRU you incompetent poopy dispensers.

by Manky-Flanker Mon 27 May 2013, 9:42 am

Sometimes you just have to laugh Laugh

3 weeks ago Dodson said:"We had to get these appointments right. We've taken our time, we've had lots of due diligence..."

Evidently that due diligence doesn't extend to ensuring the candidate will be available in the first place!

picard

by **RDW** Mon 27 May 2013, 11:24 am

Radge wins the prize for tweet of the year - tweeted sru saying '#BackingBlue More like #LackingClue'

Brilliant. Laugh

by AirHOrse Mon 27 May 2013, 11:37 am

Assuming that it was cotter they were talking about, what makes me most sad about this nonsense is that it doesn't surprise me in the least!

by Solid8 Mon 27 May 2013, 11:43 am

In any other organisation in the world the person responsible for creating an omnishambles such as this would be asked to surrender their job yet it would appear that Dodson's role is secure.

The only real hope of rescuing this is if the Clermont players are disillusioned with Cotter, hence the performance at the weekend, and that the board will replace him. Mind you if this is the case the SRU will have effectively torpedoed him, would he want to work for them after that?

by tigertattie Mon 27 May 2013, 11:46 am

so we could yet end up with Biltong as coach???

Scotland Coach - Page 9 2211252749

by 123456789 Mon 27 May 2013, 12:15 pm

Simple plan, get Cotter to sign some of our particularly special players (i.e Lee Jones and Kyle Traynor) and then to play them for the first five or six games of the year. Cotter should be out of the job by November.
Joking apart I thought he had a release clause which suggests that he's chosen to stay on and take the Scottish job later which is ridiculous and the SRU shouldn't have accepted it, by the time he's appointed he'll have one summer tour, an autumn series, a six nations and a few warm up games hardly enough time to build the world cup winning squad that Dodson's promised us.
The only option here is for Cotter to take the Scotland job but coach Clermont outside of the international windows but that would realistically mean that for three months he wouldn't be there. Also is Johnson going to continue as backs coach seeing as the current coaching team is comprised of three forwards?

by Pat_Mustard Mon 27 May 2013, 12:26 pm

Just to distract us from the despair and depression surrounding the coaching farce:

Old Warrior helps out Pat MacArthur

Pat MacArthur's preparations for the Scotland tour to South Africa have been helped out by former Glasgow and Scotland skipper Gordon Bulloch.

Gordon, who won 75 Scotland caps and toured with the British Lions, has been taking Pat under his wing as he prepares to go on his first major international tour.

Now with just a fortnight until the first Test of the inaugural Quadrangular tournament, Pat says the extra training sessions will
aid his hopes of earning a first cap for Scotland.

Pat the Evening Times: "It has been a major plus to have someone of Gordon Bulloch's experience working with me on the build up to the tour.

"Gordon has done it all having toured and skippered the Lions and done the same with Scotland and the benefit of all that has been huge for me.

"It was a big moment for me to have been selected for my first major tour and the fact that Gordon has been there with Scotland and been able to provide some insight into what it is like is a big help.

"But it is the work that I have done with him on the training paddock that I am confident will reap rich rewards for me.

"The key to it all has been repetition. When you are in a game and the pressure is on and you have to make a throw you just want to do it as if it is second nature.

"We have worked endlessly on going to the front, to the back and over the tail and really honed my technique. I feel good to go and a lot of that is down to the work I have done with Gordon."

Also Scott Wight has signed a 1-year extension at Glasgow

by Pat_Mustard Mon 27 May 2013, 2:01 pm

this quote, allegedly by Cotter in Midi Olympique, and subject to the accuracy of Google Translate, would seem to confirm the reports that he will take over next year:

Le Néo-Zélandais s'est annoncé à la tête du XV du Chardon dans les colonnes du Midi Olympique. «Il reste quelques détails à régler, mais je devrais prendre la tête de l'Ecosse en juin 2014».

The New Zealander was announced at the head of thistle XV in the columns of Midi Olympique. "There are still some details to work out, but I should take the lead in Scotland in June 2014."

by GLove39 Mon 27 May 2013, 2:10 pm

What an utter shambles. So for the next 11 matches we'll be without a proper coach!

by AirHOrse Mon 27 May 2013, 2:12 pm

I have very mixed emotions just now...

I am pleased with the SRU for picking cotter, I feel he is a great choice and I am quite excited about him taking over for Scotland.

However, I don't think they could have handled it all any worse than they have. Talk about premature...

by 123456789 Mon 27 May 2013, 2:27 pm

AirHOrse wrote:I have very mixed emotions just now...

I am pleased with the SRU for picking cotter, I feel he is a great choice and I am quite excited about him taking over for Scotland.

However, I don't think they could have handled it all any worse than they have. Talk about premature...

I hope you can contain that excitement for a year, and anyway we'll only have him for a few years. If we do well at the World cup then he'll be off the New Zealand and if we don't he'll be out the door unless the SRU go for a special appointment whereby they give him an infinite contract.

by tigertattie Mon 27 May 2013, 2:32 pm

ok ok ok.............

So. I think it is safe to say the situation is as follows

Vern Cotter will be the next Scotland Head Coach - But not until after the 2013/14 season (he finishes his contract with Clermont)?
Until Cotter takes over, Scott Johnson will be in charge of the national squad?
The coaching staff currently added to the set up will be inherited by Cotter?
Cotter will then have 1 year to prepare the squad for the next world cup?

Its a bloody madness is what it is!!!

Its time for some serious changes at the SRU. The school tie brigade need shown the door and someone with an ounce of common sense needs introduced into the fold!

With our "third tier" world cup ranking I can see us faiing to get out of the damn group stages again.

Scotland really is the laughing stock of international rugby right now!

by AirHOrse Mon 27 May 2013, 2:39 pm

123456789 wrote:
AirHOrse wrote:I have very mixed emotions just now...

I am pleased with the SRU for picking cotter, I feel he is a great choice and I am quite excited about him taking over for Scotland.

However, I don't think they could have handled it all any worse than they have. Talk about premature...

I hope you can contain that excitement for a year, and anyway we'll only have him for a few years. If we do well at the World cup then he'll be off the New Zealand and if we don't he'll be out the door unless the SRU go for a special appointment whereby they give him an infinite contract.

Don't have much choice do I hah!

It's going to be interesting to see how this next year unfolds and if he does turn up in the end! I just really glad they didn't opt of Mallet!
Though who knows, im not entirely sure whats going to happen now for the next twelve months as Scott Johnson is now director of rugby, so are they going to delay that change by a year or ask him to do both or what?

by **George Carlin** Mon 27 May 2013, 2:40 pm

The older I get the more I see that things are often exactly what they look like. How can men that have been in rugby their whole lives not take advice from people as to how to run a procurement for a senior member of staff? Were they arrogant enough to think that everything would be fine? Or did they not realise that fannying around looks bad when everyone is watching you?

Did they not realise that they have to deal with current employers? Did they really not approach Wayne Smith or Ewan McKenzie? I mean, at all?

It's not re-attaching an arm. It's really not that f*cking complicated.

I am assuming that the national team will be coached by a patchwork quilt of national coaches now with Scott Johnson doing the press. Well done Baldymorte.

by whocares Mon 27 May 2013, 2:41 pm

Pat_Mustard wrote:this quote, allegedly by Cotter in Midi Olympique, and subject to the accuracy of Google Translate, would seem to confirm the reports that he will take over next year:

Le Néo-Zélandais s'est annoncé à la tête du XV du Chardon dans les colonnes du Midi Olympique. «Il reste quelques détails à régler, mais je devrais prendre la tête de l'Ecosse en juin 2014».

The New Zealander was announced at the head of thistle XV in the columns of Midi Olympique. "There are still some details to work out, but I should take the lead in Scotland in June 2014."

Yep those are the words of the man taken from an interview. Just in time for the RWC...2019 Very Happy

by **RDW** Mon 27 May 2013, 2:59 pm

http://sru-web01.dc2.iomarthosting.com/news/13/05/27/vern-cotter-be-next-scotland-coach

picard

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 27 May 2013, 3:01 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:http://sru-web01.dc2.iomarthosting.com/news/13/05/27/vern-cotter-be-next-scotland-coach

Just saw this. Could be worse tbh, it's not as if he'd have much prep time as is. I'm happy with the choice, just not the circumstance!

At least it's not Dai Young!

by **George Carlin** Mon 27 May 2013, 3:30 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:http://sru-web01.dc2.iomarthosting.com/news/13/05/27/vern-cotter-be-next-scotland-coach

What we really want to know is this:

Scott Johnson said: "I believe this is a real coup for Scottish Rugby. Vern Cotter is a top rugby coach who is amongst the most highly-regarded coaches in the world.”

"Until Vern arrives, I will continue to lead Scotland as Head Coach and continue my duties as Director of Rugby."

P!ss ups and breweries, laydeesandgennelmen.

by AirHOrse Mon 27 May 2013, 3:38 pm

Finally some clarity!

It would be nice, if not ideal, for Cotter to start as head coach now, but I can certainly live with Scott Johnson standing in as temporary head coach until Vern Cotter is done with Clermont!

Guess I know who I am supporting for the Heineken cup next year!(aside from Glasgow obviously!).

by GLove39 Mon 27 May 2013, 3:42 pm

Little thought here, but that Osprey coach, Humphries, that the SRU hired a month or so back to be forwards coach is on a 2 year contract.
What if when Vern finally gets to Edinburgh properly he wants a forwards coach of his choosing???

by SecretFly Mon 27 May 2013, 3:44 pm

So if he's signed...he's under contract? Meaning he gets paid straight away for taking himself off the candidate list of any other jobs that might crop up next year. You don't do that kind of sacrifice for no financial reward.

So, he's already getting paid for services to Scotland and yet it will be a full year before he devotes his full concentration to the Scottish job?

Scotland really using their Oil Wealth now! Show offs.

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