Gatland blasts critics...good on ya Gats

First topic message reminder :

http://www.allblacks.com/news/22679/Gatland-blasts-critics

Back home for you Gats, if they can't respect ya, we've plenty of teams that will.

.

Taylorman........ get a grip will you. I am a tad old in the tooth to lash on to your assumptive views.

Fact is this was a Oz side with quite a few regulars out of the squad. This Lions squad IMHO was selected with GatlandBall in mind (I am not going to rake up a tribal war here) but many of the squad and first 23 had lost to SH sides particularly Australia on a regular basis albeit narrowly on times. The tactics implied using similar to Gatland/Wales this in my mind was always going to fail.

The All Blacks are a different kettle of fish particularly the 2012 vintage, although I haven't got a clue what you are on about as the Irish came into the first test without 5 nailed on regulars including Paul O'Connell, Stephen Ferris and Tommy Bowe and the in-form Mike Ross these are world class players no doubt, plus it was a mistake to split up the experienced partnership of Darcy and BOD, conversely I am pretty much confident to say that the All Blacks has their full strength 15 with SBW having an immense game. Its damn hard to play the NZ seconds with a full strength team lets alone with a 1/3 of your side out especially your key players. 2nd test totally different Darcy back in to partner BOD, the inexperienced Zebo out and Trimble in. 3rd and last test saw a fantastic game by NZ which was a county mile better than the first two but then again the pressure was off, and you as a Kiwi should realise more than anything about the pressure of expectation.

I am pretty confident that Wales and England over the next two years will get a tad closer to the top three and both could well leapfrog over at least Australia, maybe even SA.

However to say that 1/2p is not close to Dagg is just mind boggingly in the extreme. Kearney tucked him up like a kipper in the second testin 2012 to such an extent that he cowardly hit him late and had a yellow, and 1/2p at the moment is a country ahead of anyone in the NH. I would put my last fiver on him over Dagg going into next season. Rennie and Barclay both out-pococked Pocock before they got injured. Wales with Warburton Lydiate AWJ have some players who could cause anyone problems

I would say its like the British mindset to the Mens Wimbledon champion the pressure has been too much but now Andy Murray has done it the pressure is now off. If one of the home nations could put over a few wins in the style of Englands win, then the Kiwi aura will disperse.

Then again its an almost impossible task

Yeah well maybe it was a bit harsh, the gloomy Wellington weather I'll blame it on...

Agree with all that. Halfpenny's had a better year than Dagg but as we judge our fullbacks firstly on attacking ability (Cullen/ Mils and now Dagg masters of the art) Halfpenny needs to do more of the third test work to rate as highly. I thought he was great and his run's down the left reminded of when Mils took off vs SA at Eden park a couple of seasons ago.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Yes we won, but we failed to impress SH rugby fans because we played Warrenball (zzzz) for two and a half tests then the players took matters into their own hands and played the game how they wanted to.

Gatland doesn't deserve any credit for that, he was a very poor Lions coach.

Wow, this is a new one. Now Gatland's the villain who did everything in his power to prevent a series win - and he would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for those pesky players!

On the point of impressing southern-hemisphere rugby fans, I'm pretty sure they respect results.

He'll try any rubbish to stick the boot into Gats. I thought people wouldn't take him up on it, knowing who he is.

Deffo agree with you re: 1/2ps attacking intent........ saying that I might be clean off my trolley but he certainly seems to up his attacking game with the pressure of Hogg is the squad.

I have to say I just loved Christian Cullen....... he certainly got bums on seats, and "Junior" wow perhaps even more exciting seemed to me to score a try almost every other game. These guys weren't born they were built out of bionic parts

Sin é wrote:

He (Shane Williams) apparently retired after the world cup, but yet was persuaded to play against Australia for a swan song for him (though in reality the WRU were just using shane to milk the gullible welsh public). He reappeared again for another swansong with the Babaas because the WRU wanted to extract more cash from the Welsh public.

Thank you for that gratuitous insult. Your true colours are now showing and your motivation for your comments on this board is now a lot clearer.

After handing over all their hand earned cash to see Shane one last time .....................

I know international tickets are expensive these days but we Welsh are not quite so poverty stricken that a ticket empties our bank account.

SecretFly wrote:

optimist wrote:

Expanding my previous opinion, I'd say that much of the current moaning (not from BOD who has conducted himself impeccably) contrasts very unfavourably with how supporters of Ireland behaved in '74.

Your opinion and a very different age.  This isn't doctors and farmers and business men and pub owners going off on Great White Hunter excursions to shoot wildlife, hellraise in the most deliciously non-politically correct boorish and (male) chauvinistic way and have a bit of sport too to help the appetite along, what ho!  
It's a modern dog-eat-dog world where players have careers, and their earning potential depends on what they do at every level - club, International and then onto Lions.  It's business - and if you try to screw some business partners to gain an advantage for your own company then you'll get alerted to the fact and you'll get your criticism.

Gatland is a big man.  He can handle the pressure.  He certainly knows how to create it.

I don't deny the truth of some of what you say and I'm quite prepared to have my opinion changed by reasoned argument.  

But, really, what ho?  Try saying that to Bobby Windsor and some of the other '74 Lions!

Risca Rev wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Yes we won, but we failed to impress SH rugby fans because we played Warrenball (zzzz) for two and a half tests then the players took matters into their own hands and played the game how they wanted to.

Gatland doesn't deserve any credit for that, he was a very poor Lions coach.

Wow, this is a new one. Now Gatland's the villain who did everything in his power to prevent a series win - and he would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for those pesky players!

On the point of impressing southern-hemisphere rugby fans, I'm pretty sure they respect results.

He'll try any rubbish to stick the boot into Gats. I thought people wouldn't take him up on it, knowing who he is.

Are you still at it Rev   maybe you should try and comment about rugby or sport for a change!
Mind you at least you stopped making offensive comments, it’s a start I guess?

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

nathan wrote:It looks pretty clear to me that JD was at fault for that try but who cares, all players make mistakes and he certainly made up for it.

Yeah agree with you I don't really care but I'm just arguing the point for the same reason I'd argue if someone tried to tell me 2+2=5.

Same here

* 13 should have been in the 13 slot............... wasn't
* 13 if in the perfect defensive position would have got the tackle................ didn't
* The opposition player receiving the ball drifted to the 5m line before offloading, the fact is he could have gone either way i.e. drift wide pulling the defensive line or cut inside as he had the time to go direct. Either way result would have been the same

Same for me I don't give a monkeys as I have no allegiance to Ireland or Wales players just cannae believe as in your words "the guff"

 
FHF, I mean this in the nicest possible way old chap but it's obvious your name is pretty appropriate because as is often the case with those in your position you clearly know bollix all about defending......

O'Driscoll was playing inside centre for much of the game. Davies is defending the 13 channel and misses the tackle...end of story, cut and dry, zat iz it .... this does not require frame by frame analysis - the defensive line is intact prior to the move, Davies just gets drawn by O'Connor and leaves the hole for AAC. C'est la vie.

If there was a defensive system failure it was that the Lions weren't contesting the rucks and allowing Australia too much quick ball in the build up phases. The backrow were standing of Genia and allowing the Wallabies to break the gainline too easily when play was just inside the Lions half.

Therefore the main culprit for the try was not Davies but Lydiate and warburton.

 

Taylorman wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Taylorman wrote:yes...the net result...partnership not working...get a better one...thats what gats did, regardless of the rest. And it worked. And its one you and many wouldnt have picked...and he gets shot down for it.

2nd Test - It wasn't the midfield combo that didn't work, it was the tactics employed that was diabolical "We are one-up so lets Contain/Restrain and hope for the breakaway". The selection of a not fully fit Bowe over an on-fire but slightly defensively suspect Cuthbert summed up his approach to the 2nd test.

3rd Test - Hey 29 out of 36 matches together............... Roberts/Davies. It was the right call, well done Mr G, and I said we have been backed into a corner now and it was our only option. However Davies/BOD if used in the right way would have worked in any of the tests.

That was the most talented squad leaving and they won in spite of the "plan A only" tactic (as I said if Aussies had the balls they would have taken the five pens in the first half and could have been 12 up come halftime).

You know you look at this as if its all one jolly analytical exercise. Fact is NH sides struggle with SH sides at best, let alone beat them.
here you are after a win debating how bad it is. Its not always the 'gameplan' that loses a match- In the second test it was also horrible execution by so many players, wayward kicks and the like and also a desperate opposition who also had something to say about how the Lions went.

This was an average Lions side, not a lot better than their opposition so youre getting carried away there.

We played Ireland last year at thrashed them 3-0 for two of the tests and for some reason our 'gameplan' went to pieces in the other. We put that down to a courageous ireland side disrupting our plans. get a grip. Take the series win and move on.

Thayre not that good that they can come sailing in with a 3-0 win- far from it. None of that side would make the AB 15 except for maybe a prop and Halfpenny on a bad Dagg day, which is generally how I measure sides.

Oz were so inept and unlucky  in the first two youre lucky you werent 2-0 down and most of that wasnt Gats fault but to preach perfection for the series is just plain ludicrous.

Yea, you 'thrashed' Ireland 3-0 when you got out of jail in the 2nd test by the ref. (Nigel Owens) after Ireland had lost most of its first team players. The third test was just a test too far after an 11 month season (world cup etc. and no break), and losing both D'Arcy & Heislip to injury in the 2nd test (having travelled out without Paul O'Connell).

For the record, I'd say Paul O'Connell might make the ABs - your locks are not that outstanding.

As an aside, Sonny Bill's tweet:

Sonny Bill Williams
First Quade and now the big dog BOD.. #Smh #LionsTour
8:26 AM - 4 Jul 2013

Scarpia wrote:

Sin é wrote:
He (Shane Williams) apparently retired after the world cup, but yet was persuaded to play against Australia for a swan song for him (though in reality the WRU were just using shane to milk the gullible welsh public). He reappeared again for another swansong with the Babaas because the WRU wanted to extract more cash from the Welsh public.

Thank you for that gratuitous insult. Your true colours are now showing and your motivation for your comments on this board is now a lot clearer.

After handing over all their hand earned cash to see Shane one last time .....................

I know international tickets are expensive these days but we Welsh are not quite so poverty stricken that a ticket empties our bank account.

I'm delighted for you that unlike over here anyway, there is plenty of cash in Wales to splash out on international games. Wales had just played in a world cup and unlike everyone else, had another game with Australia (but then, the Welsh teams are not interested in the Heineken Cup). Surprising with all that surplus cash that some of it wasn't spent paying for tickets to watch the great Shane play for the Ospreys week in week out.

Sin é wrote:

I'm delighted for you that unlike over here anyway, there is plenty of cash in Wales to splash out on international games.

Needless hyperbole.

Surprising with all that surplus cash that some of it wasn't spent paying for tickets to watch the great Shane play for the Ospreys week in week out.

Are you now reduced to a snide "my crowd's bigger than yours" argument? Pathetic!

So when BOD plays his last match you won't be going? You won't find a few Euros to say goodbye to your best player ever (discounting Mike Gibson of course. Oh and Willie-John)


But then again, perhaps BOD has played his last match. In Melbourne.  

Scarpia wrote:


But then again, perhaps BOD has played his last match. In Melbourne.   

Gatland and the 'Lions' fans would certainly like to think so. Better to end it with Gats as last coach and the positive love-vibes coming from all his fans in Red. Thank God he didn't fall for that 'sentimental' crap before the Lions squad was selected, like many were calling for.

SecretFly wrote:

Scarpia wrote:


But then again, perhaps BOD has played his last match. In Melbourne.   

Gatland and the 'Lions' fans would certainly like to think so.  Better to end it with Gats as last coach and the positive love-vibes coming from all his fans in Red.  Thank God he didn't fall for that 'sentimental' crap before the Lions squad was selected, like many were calling for.

Rumour is that BOD was tipped off by an insider at HSBC that Gats planned to shaft him for the tests so signed on another year with the IRFU.

Gats has to clear the squad with the sponsors and Gats had originally left BOD out, HSBC insisted he was selected for the tour and Gats reluctantly agreed but only on the basis that he wasn't going to select him for the tests.

The compromise was that Bowe would play the tests to help shift merchandise in Ireland.

Scarpia wrote:Are you now reduced to a snide "my crowd's bigger than yours" argument? Pathetic!

So when BOD plays his last match you won't be going? You won't find a few Euros to say goodbye to your best player ever (discounting Mike Gibson of course. Oh and Willie-John)


But then again, perhaps BOD has played his last match. In Melbourne.   

You are being a tad over sensitive there I think about the crowd size   While the Irish clubs have good attendances, they are dropping and that is down to there not being as much cash over here as there used to be and a lot of immigration. I'm happy for you that money isn't an issue for you over in Wales like it is here.

I won't know when BOD will be playing his last game because the IRFU will show him some respect and not try and milk it like the WRU have done with Shane Williams with the willing support of the otherwise unsentimental Mr (soon to be Sir  ) Warren Gatland.

PS - Keith Wood would be up there as a great player as well, but from all accounts Jackie Kyle seems to have been the best ever.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scarpia wrote:


But then again, perhaps BOD has played his last match. In Melbourne.   

Gatland and the 'Lions' fans would certainly like to think so.  Better to end it with Gats as last coach and the positive love-vibes coming from all his fans in Red.  Thank God he didn't fall for that 'sentimental' crap before the Lions squad was selected, like many were calling for.

Rumour is that BOD was tipped off by an insider at HSBC that Gats planned to shaft him for the tests so signed on another year with the IRFU.

Gats has to clear the squad with the sponsors and Gats had originally left BOD out, HSBC insisted he was selected for the tour and Gats reluctantly agreed but only on the basis that he wasn't going to select him for the tests.

The compromise was that Bowe would play the tests to help shift merchandise in Ireland.    

I can imagine that the HSBC might have been a tad put out if they had to withdraw their very expensive advertising campaign as well as it featured BOD in it  

HSBC have had more exposure since BOD was dumped on by Gats, they'll be happy enough.

Sin é wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Taylorman wrote:yes...the net result...partnership not working...get a better one...thats what gats did, regardless of the rest. And it worked. And its one you and many wouldnt have picked...and he gets shot down for it.

2nd Test - It wasn't the midfield combo that didn't work, it was the tactics employed that was diabolical "We are one-up so lets Contain/Restrain and hope for the breakaway". The selection of a not fully fit Bowe over an on-fire but slightly defensively suspect Cuthbert summed up his approach to the 2nd test.

3rd Test - Hey 29 out of 36 matches together............... Roberts/Davies. It was the right call, well done Mr G, and I said we have been backed into a corner now and it was our only option. However Davies/BOD if used in the right way would have worked in any of the tests.

That was the most talented squad leaving and they won in spite of the "plan A only" tactic (as I said if Aussies had the balls they would have taken the five pens in the first half and could have been 12 up come halftime).

You know you look at this as if its all one jolly analytical exercise. Fact is NH sides struggle with SH sides at best, let alone beat them.
here you are after a win debating how bad it is. Its not always the 'gameplan' that loses a match- In the second test it was also horrible execution by so many players, wayward kicks and the like and also a desperate opposition who also had something to say about how the Lions went.

This was an average Lions side, not a lot better than their opposition so youre getting carried away there.

We played Ireland last year at thrashed them 3-0 for two of the tests and for some reason our 'gameplan' went to pieces in the other. We put that down to a courageous ireland side disrupting our plans. get a grip. Take the series win and move on.

Thayre not that good that they can come sailing in with a 3-0 win- far from it. None of that side would make the AB 15 except for maybe a prop and Halfpenny on a bad Dagg day, which is generally how I measure sides.

Oz were so inept and unlucky  in the first two youre lucky you werent 2-0 down and most of that wasnt Gats fault but to preach perfection for the series is just plain ludicrous.

Yea, you 'thrashed' Ireland 3-0 when you got out of jail in the 2nd test by the ref. (Nigel Owens) after Ireland had lost most of its first team players. The third test was just a test too far after an 11 month season (world cup etc. and no break), and losing both D'Arcy & Heislip to injury in the 2nd test (having travelled out without Paul O'Connell).

For the record, I'd say Paul O'Connell might make the ABs - your locks are not that outstanding.

As an aside, Sonny Bill's tweet:

Sonny Bill Williams  
First Quade and now the big dog BOD.. #Smh #LionsTour
8:26 AM - 4 Jul 2013

Oh come on sin....you honestly believe all that? Ok then...I give up...

rodders wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

nathan wrote:It looks pretty clear to me that JD was at fault for that try but who cares, all players make mistakes and he certainly made up for it.

Yeah agree with you I don't really care but I'm just arguing the point for the same reason I'd argue if someone tried to tell me 2+2=5.

Same here

* 13 should have been in the 13 slot............... wasn't
* 13 if in the perfect defensive position would have got the tackle................ didn't
* The opposition player receiving the ball drifted to the 5m line before offloading, the fact is he could have gone either way i.e. drift wide pulling the defensive line or cut inside as he had the time to go direct. Either way result would have been the same

Same for me I don't give a monkeys as I have no allegiance to Ireland or Wales players just cannae believe as in your words "the guff"

 
FHF, I mean this in the nicest possible way old chap but it's obvious your name is pretty appropriate because as is often the case with those in your position you clearly know bollix all about defending......

O'Driscoll was playing inside centre for much of the game. Davies is defending the 13 channel and misses the tackle...end of story, cut and dry, zat iz it .... this does not require frame by frame analysis - the defensive line is intact prior to the move, Davies just gets drawn by O'Connor and leaves the hole for AAC. C'est la vie.

If there was a defensive system failure it was that the Lions weren't contesting the rucks and allowing Australia too much quick ball in the build up phases. The backrow were standing of Genia and allowing the Wallabies to break the gainline too easily when play was just inside the Lions half.

Therefore the main culprit for the try was not Davies but Lydiate and warburton.

 

Rodders (my most biased of all good pals)

At 6' 6" since 19 and average weight of 18.5st, it was always unlikely that a twinkling 10 I would nit be, however I did play blindside at a reasonable level from 16 to 36 (with the odd stint at lock, openside, and 8 when called for).

You would say black is white to defend you man and it just adds to your character and biased nature, your comments on BODs positioning during the second test (and that's not a bad thing as long as we can rationalise things). Mr G played a structured game of containment, its pretty obvious to most that BOD played 13 throughout the match and there wasn't even a hint of the two centres playing inside-outside.

BOD gave his all............ I for one will put him up there with the rugby worlds greatest ever centres  and I have had the please of watching him on three of the four tours having replica 01, 05, 09 jersey signed and proudly given to my son each time (probably has them put in some dark bottom drawer somewhere grrrr)

By the way you can blame the captain Warburton if you wnt but as he was already off injured (that's why I mentioned Crofts "contribution" during that six minute spell), the captain on the field when the rugby equivalent of the "Alamo" onslaught was a certain Brian O'Driscoll.

Anyway Rodders hope you are enjoying the sun.

What do you find difficult believing taylorman - Ireland at the end of an 11 month season with no break, travelling twice to NZ within 6 months?

That D'Arcy, POC, Heislip etc. were missing for some/all of the Tests. Poor old Paddy Wallace was flown across the world from his beach holiday in Portugal/Spain.

Rugby is Ireland's 4th sport - we don't have the same depth of players as NZ does (and boy did it show how difficult NZ found the going in the world cup once Carter was out and McCaw was patched up).

And I do think Paul O'Connell would make the ABs as its not an area of strength. If he was, Brad Thorn wouldn't have been playing internationally for as long as he was.

so does that excuse us for the England loss? certainly a long year for us. POC yep he would have a couple of years ago. Is he better than Thorn? Probably not. why? Thorns a winner. Ive seen POC drop off terribly at times. Thorn gathered in trophies like a magnet, in more than one sport...no comparison on that front.

Sin é wrote:

You are being a tad over sensitive there I think about the crowd size

You brought that up. I'm just responding to it

I'm happy for you that money isn't an issue for you over in Wales like it is here.

I never said it wasn't an issue. This was your childish response to my argument. Money is tight everywhere. But to give Shane a good send off we Welsh were prepared to find the money.

I won't know when BOD will be playing his last game because the IRFU will show him some respect and not try and milk it like the WRU have done with Shane Williams

You really believe BOD's retirement won't be publicised? Of course it will - as you well know. But don't let the truth get in the way of an argument

PS - Keith Wood would be up there as a great player as well, but from all accounts Jackie Kyle seems to have been the best ever.

Well there at least we agree on something. There are many more great Irish players that I've had the privilege of watching over the years.

BTW, if all you're going to do is use the same arguments for a third time, I shan't bother to waste my time with a response.

flyhalffactory wrote:

rodders wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

nathan wrote:It looks pretty clear to me that JD was at fault for that try but who cares, all players make mistakes and he certainly made up for it.

Yeah agree with you I don't really care but I'm just arguing the point for the same reason I'd argue if someone tried to tell me 2+2=5.

Same here

* 13 should have been in the 13 slot............... wasn't
* 13 if in the perfect defensive position would have got the tackle................ didn't
* The opposition player receiving the ball drifted to the 5m line before offloading, the fact is he could have gone either way i.e. drift wide pulling the defensive line or cut inside as he had the time to go direct. Either way result would have been the same

Same for me I don't give a monkeys as I have no allegiance to Ireland or Wales players just cannae believe as in your words "the guff"

 
FHF, I mean this in the nicest possible way old chap but it's obvious your name is pretty appropriate because as is often the case with those in your position you clearly know bollix all about defending......

O'Driscoll was playing inside centre for much of the game. Davies is defending the 13 channel and misses the tackle...end of story, cut and dry, zat iz it .... this does not require frame by frame analysis - the defensive line is intact prior to the move, Davies just gets drawn by O'Connor and leaves the hole for AAC. C'est la vie.

If there was a defensive system failure it was that the Lions weren't contesting the rucks and allowing Australia too much quick ball in the build up phases. The backrow were standing of Genia and allowing the Wallabies to break the gainline too easily when play was just inside the Lions half.

Therefore the main culprit for the try was not Davies but Lydiate and warburton.

 

Rodders (my most biased of all good pals)

At 6' 6" since 19 and average weight of 18.5st, it was always unlikely that a twinkling 10 I would nit be, however I did play blindside at a reasonable level from 16 to 36 (with the odd stint at lock, openside, and 8 when called for).

 
you took the bait FHF and exposed yourself here!....I mean what would a lock-cum- blindside know about defending the 13 channel....  

Rodders is a right little divil.

 

Taylorman wrote:so does that excuse us for the England loss? certainly a long year for us. POC yep he would have a couple of years ago. Is he better than Thorn? Probably not. why? Thorns a winner. Ive seen POC drop off terribly at times. Thorn gathered in trophies like a magnet, in more than one sport...no comparison on that front.

The ABs had a break between the world cup and their autumn tour and it was their one and only trip to the NH since before the world cup. Ireland had been to NZ twice within the same season. In saying that, I'd agree that the virus or whatever was a major factor in the loss to England.

POC has hardly played in the last two years and up to that had been nursing a back injury. He looks to be back to his best now and was a nailed on starter for the Lions until he got injured.

Thorn is a super player and hit rucks all day, but he was never much of a lineout operator (and why Vic Matfield said POC was his most difficult opponent and not Brad). Interesting that POC rated Fabien Pelous as his most challenging opponent - none of them selected Thorn.

Anyway Thorn is retired now and why I would say POC would get a game with the ABs.

Scarpia wrote:
You brought that up. I'm just responding to it.

I never said it wasn't an issue. This was your childish response to my argument. Money is tight everywhere. But to give Shane a good send off we Welsh were prepared to find the money.

I mentioned money being tight, you thought I was slagging off the Welsh (when I wasn't because money is tight everywhere) then you changed tack and claim that money is tight but you are happy to spend it on Shane which reinforces the point I was making all along - the WRU used Shane to get a crowd to the Millenium having already retired after the world cup.

You really believe BOD's retirement won't be publicised? Of course it will - as you well know. But don't let the truth get in the way of an argument

BOD is retiring at the end of this season, so its well publicised. What we won't see is the IRFU dragging him out of retirement for the autumn internationals of 2014 to fill the Aviva.

To be fair, it's a bit easier to fill a 50 odd thousand stadium than a 70 odd aye

rodders wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

rodders wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

nathan wrote:It looks pretty clear to me that JD was at fault for that try but who cares, all players make mistakes and he certainly made up for it.

Yeah agree with you I don't really care but I'm just arguing the point for the same reason I'd argue if someone tried to tell me 2+2=5.

Same here

* 13 should have been in the 13 slot............... wasn't
* 13 if in the perfect defensive position would have got the tackle................ didn't
* The opposition player receiving the ball drifted to the 5m line before offloading, the fact is he could have gone either way i.e. drift wide pulling the defensive line or cut inside as he had the time to go direct. Either way result would have been the same

Same for me I don't give a monkeys as I have no allegiance to Ireland or Wales players just cannae believe as in your words "the guff"

 
FHF, I mean this in the nicest possible way old chap but it's obvious your name is pretty appropriate because as is often the case with those in your position you clearly know bollix all about defending......

O'Driscoll was playing inside centre for much of the game. Davies is defending the 13 channel and misses the tackle...end of story, cut and dry, zat iz it .... this does not require frame by frame analysis - the defensive line is intact prior to the move, Davies just gets drawn by O'Connor and leaves the hole for AAC. C'est la vie.

If there was a defensive system failure it was that the Lions weren't contesting the rucks and allowing Australia too much quick ball in the build up phases. The backrow were standing of Genia and allowing the Wallabies to break the gainline too easily when play was just inside the Lions half.

Therefore the main culprit for the try was not Davies but Lydiate and warburton.

 

Rodders (my most biased of all good pals)

At 6' 6" since 19 and average weight of 18.5st, it was always unlikely that a twinkling 10 I would nit be, however I did play blindside at a reasonable level from 16 to 36 (with the odd stint at lock, openside, and 8 when called for).

 
you took the bait FHF and exposed yourself here!....I mean what would a lock-cum- blindside know about defending the 13 channel....  

My missus is going to kill me  ............. I usually only expose myself to long haired, blue eyed blondes........ now where's Hibbard when you need her/him!!!

http://media.sbs.com.au/news/upload_media/7290_lions-team-win-getty-130708.jpg

I prefer tall blue eyed blondes, seriously Hibbard looks like a dwarf (see pic)

He's lucky Mike Tindall and James Haskell didn't get selected then....

I an ecstatic that the Lions won this series. I'm also hugely relieved. It would have been a stab to the heart to have lost this year. Not only do we have a good generation of players in the Home Unions, we were up against a poor and inconsistent - by their standards - Australian team.

Warren Gatland gets my thanks. He's presided over a winning Lions tour, which is a feat two World Cup-winning coaches could not manage. I didn't shower him with abuse beforehand, so I don't have any need to apologize. I did however, worry enormously about our prospects, on a roller coaster of hope and fear, right up until the moment I heard the TMO say the referee could award Jonny Sexton's try.

I'm not going to suddenly forget that I had grounds for concern. It still baffles me Wales couldn't conjure even one win from the string of matches they played against the Wallabies. Those coaching giants Martin Johnson, Andy Robinson and Declan Kidney had all come away with victories over Robbie Deans, and all had managed to do so away from home.

Gatland now gets a special place in my heart but he won't necessarily stay there. I know this from my experience twenty four years ago. McGeechan led us to glory in Australia but, a few months later, he was at the helm when Scotland ambushed England at Murrayfield in 1990. He needed to win another Lions series in 1997 before he was rehabilitated in my eyes.

I do have a lot of time now for Geech in his role as a sort of spiritual advisor to the Lions. 1997 also put a lot of credit in his bank because it's one of sport's great rarities. Not just a Lions win, but a win against arguably a better side.

Having said that, I'm not blind to his failings. He got selection wrong in 1989 and it's a testament to his man-management and the players cohesion, that they held it together to come away with a win. Outside of the Tests, the 1993 Lions tour was a shambles. He made some some baffling squad selections which were almost instantly shown to be wrong-headed. 2009 may have restored the Lions standing after two fractious tours, but it was also a missed opportunity, in large part because he got selection wrong for the first Test.

In a similar vein, I'm can't say I approve of everything Gatland did, and I'm not going to start assuming that all faults must be down to the other members of his coaching team.

The fact Gatland doesn't yet enjoy my unconditional love has nothing to do with him being a New Zealander, or with him being coach of Wales. I'm very capable of holding similar feeling about England coaches.

Geoff Cooke led England to consecutive Grand Slams, wins over New Zealand and South Africa, and a World Cup final. It's an enviable record, especially given the history of underachievement which had gone before, but I still think we could have been better.

Clive Woodward took us to a World Cup title. That alone forgives ten lifetimes of sins but it doesn't mean I have to enjoy some of his oddball selections and the failure to convert several years of dominance into only one Grand Slam title.

Of course,  if some genie came up and offered me the chance to run the tape of history once again, tweaking things to suit my own tastes, I'd change nothing at all for fear of risking that precious World Cup. By and large, that's how I feel about Gatland's Lions. I still think we should have had an easier time of it beating these Australians but the win will do just fine for me right now.

Scrumpy wrote:http://media.sbs.com.au/news/upload_media/7290_lions-team-win-getty-130708.jpg

I prefer tall blue eyed blondes, seriously Hibbard looks like a dwarf (see pic)

Parling looks oddly two-dimensional and like a cardboard cut-out of himself.

It's also good that Warburton didn't do a 'John Terry' and kit himself up (complete with gumshield) for the presentation

Scrumpy wrote:http://media.sbs.com.au/news/upload_media/7290_lions-team-win-getty-130708.jpg

I prefer tall blue eyed blondes, seriously Hibbard looks like a dwarf (see pic)

 

Is he one of Gandalfs "very close friends"........ truly a hobbit

Rugby Fan wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Beggars Belief

Flyhalf, I don't doubt your sincerity, and I certainly don't think you are trying to score any points for the sake of it, but I have to add my voice to those who see JD as at fault for the try.

I've seen your explanations but, when I read them alongside the video, it feels like one of those Hitler clips where someone has created a whole new storyline to replace the original script.

I'm happy to leave the argument now as flyhalffactory is obviously alone in his opinion so I know I'm not going mad.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Beggars Belief

Flyhalf, I don't doubt your sincerity, and I certainly don't think you are trying to score any points for the sake of it, but I have to add my voice to those who see JD as at fault for the try.

I've seen your explanations but, when I read them alongside the video, it feels like one of those Hitler clips where someone has created a whole new storyline to replace the original script.

I'm happy to leave the argument now as flyhalffactory is obviously alone in his opinion so I know I'm not going mad.

“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
― George Carlin

“I'll take crazy over stupid any day.”
― Joss Whedon

Well as this is not a deductive argument on your part but rather an inductive argument (i.e. a certain "freeze frame" from a certain "angle") you have rather fallen on your own sword with your comment..

Methinks Mr Gatland thought the same as I and many others (to such an extent that he was willing to accept a public and media backlash) and by jove Foxys stats in the 3rd test prove it that an aware partnership works.... tackles alone went from 8 made 3 missed to 11 made 0 missed.

I feel the 2nd and 3rd Lions Tests had shades of Irelands 1st and 2nd 2012 Tests against NZ: Earls/BOD then D'Arcy/BOD one didn't work the other did.

I'll leave you now "asore......" chatting to yourself........ remember take two a day and increase dosage if you start answering yourself again

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Beggars Belief

Flyhalf, I don't doubt your sincerity, and I certainly don't think you are trying to score any points for the sake of it, but I have to add my voice to those who see JD as at fault for the try.

I've seen your explanations but, when I read them alongside the video, it feels like one of those Hitler clips where someone has created a whole new storyline to replace the original script.

I'm happy to leave the argument now as flyhalffactory is obviously alone in his opinion so I know I'm not going mad.

“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
― George Carlin

“I'll take crazy over stupid any day.”
― Joss Whedon

Well as this is not a deductive argument on your part but rather an inductive argument (i.e. a certain "freeze frame" from a certain "angle") you have rather fallen on your own sword with your comment..

Methinks Mr Gatland thought the same as I and many others (to such an extent that he was willing to accept a public and media backlash) and by jove Foxys stats in the 3rd test prove it that an aware partnership works.... tackles alone went from 8 made 3 missed to 11 made 0 missed.

I feel the 2nd and 3rd Lions Tests had shades of Irelands 1st and 2nd 2012 Tests against NZ: Earls/BOD then D'Arcy/BOD one didn't work the other did.

I'll leave you now "asore......" chatting to yourself........ remember take two a day and increase dosage if you start answering yourself again

Except I showed a video from directly behind the action so you're resorting to lying now.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Beggars Belief

Flyhalf, I don't doubt your sincerity, and I certainly don't think you are trying to score any points for the sake of it, but I have to add my voice to those who see JD as at fault for the try.

I've seen your explanations but, when I read them alongside the video, it feels like one of those Hitler clips where someone has created a whole new storyline to replace the original script.

I'm happy to leave the argument now as flyhalffactory is obviously alone in his opinion so I know I'm not going mad.

“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
― George Carlin

“I'll take crazy over stupid any day.”
― Joss Whedon

Well as this is not a deductive argument on your part but rather an inductive argument (i.e. a certain "freeze frame" from a certain "angle") you have rather fallen on your own sword with your comment..

Methinks Mr Gatland thought the same as I and many others (to such an extent that he was willing to accept a public and media backlash) and by jove Foxys stats in the 3rd test prove it that an aware partnership works.... tackles alone went from 8 made 3 missed to 11 made 0 missed.

I feel the 2nd and 3rd Lions Tests had shades of Irelands 1st and 2nd 2012 Tests against NZ: Earls/BOD then D'Arcy/BOD one didn't work the other did.

I'll leave you now "asore......" chatting to yourself........ remember take two a day and increase dosage if you start answering yourself again

Except I showed a video from directly behind the action so you're resorting to lying now.

Watch it my man, I will tolerate you so far. You call me a liar again and we'll be going down a road you won't want to travel

flyhalffactory wrote:


Watch it my man, I will tolerate you so far. You call me a liar again and we'll be going down a road you won't want to travel

So did I or did I not post a video from directly behind the action?

Also making threats on the internet is very juvenile.

Its not a threat be very clear on that......... I won't be called a liar on the internet.

You did post a video extract on the topic, I didn't say you never did. The freeze frame/s is from that rear angle video (not centre rear by the way) it doesn't prove any more than the various UTUBE angles of the same period of time.

If I said you didn't post a video then you have some justification in suggesting I was lying.

flyhalffactory wrote:Its not a threat be very clear on that......... I won't be called a liar on the internet.

You did post a video extract on the topic, I didn't say you never did. The freeze frame/s is from that rear angle video (not centre rear by the way) it doesn't prove any more than the various UTUBE angles of the same period of time.

If I said you didn't post a video then you have some justification in suggesting I was lying.

Well as this is not a deductive argument on your part but rather an inductive argument (i.e. a certain "freeze frame" from a certain "angle")

You posted this sentence implying that I was basing my argument on a photo from a certain angle (that it happens to be a very good one seems to escape you).It is a lie of omission and you have been called a liar on the internet what you meant is you won't accept it.

flyhalffactory wrote:Its not a threat be very clear on that......... I won't be called a liar on the internet.

You did post a video extract on the topic, I didn't say you never did. The freeze frame/s is from that rear angle video (not centre rear by the way) it doesn't prove any more than the various UTUBE angles of the same period of time.

If I said you didn't post a video then you have some justification in suggesting I was lying.

 

Exactly, it is the internet mate.. calm down. Why do you care?

This is still going strong?  I mean the most debated onfield moment of the Lions series...?

Look guys, the easiest thing is probably to agree that nobody is going to be agreeing on this one.  Not now.  Everyone has their views formed and no amount of re-looking at footage is going to change anything.

Gatland chose his side and kept faith with the majority of his players (he'll be needing them in the WC and it was good practice for the WC).

The rest of it is now complete....until the autobiographies

Asore......

It is a very good angle from the left rear, the majority of the videos are from the front right. Nothing is conclusive hence the second by second breakdown to prove the event.

The rear angle freeze frame suggest that BOD was face on..... the front camera took a wider shot which reveals he did not move towards JOC until the ball left. Both the freeze frame or the video sequence didnt show that.

I certainly didnt ommit saying that you hadnt inputted a video as they both highlighted the same angle hence conclusion

I know...cool isnt it..is gatland still contracted to Wales? Would have thought his price will have gone up a bit...

He beat australia with his team plus better players to fill gaps.. basically a welsh win after 9 tries with extra help.

I could have done the same thing.

Taylorman wrote:I know...cool isnt it..is gatland still contracted to Wales? Would have thought his price will have gone up a bit...

Can't think of any Top 10 team outside Wales where he would get an offer at the moment.

Is France still top 10. PSA seems just as clueless as Lievremont.

Australia don't want another conservative Kiwi but Ireland did have Gatland as Kidney until he was ousted by the superior Kidney.  SA will never get a foreign coach. There are reasons why teams won't take Gats but being a bad coach is not the reason you scamp!

Paul O'Connell on BODgate:

Paul O'Connell says it is "hard to fathom" the logic behind Warren Gatland's decision to drop Brian O'Driscoll for the British and Irish Lions' final Test against Australia.

Lions coach Gatland, who handed O'Driscoll his Ireland debut in 1999, dropped the centre for the first time in his career ahead of the third Test.

O'Connell told Today FM: "I was shocked and disappointed.

"After playing so long with him you end up being a bit of a fan. I wouldn't say it took the gloss off it a little bit for me, but it probably did."

He added: "It's a shame he wasn't out there. Even going on the bus with him; I was injured and there were other guys resigned to the fact that they weren't on the team.

"It just felt wrong that he was on the bus with the non-playing squad, not in the 23."

O'Connell believes his Ireland teammate was given little chance to showcase his attacking talents during the first two Tests, due to the dearth of quality ball given to the Lions' backline.

"I thought Brian was playing well," said the Munster lock. "If you look at the first two Tests there wasn't a whole lot of quality ball given to the backline.

"Apart from George North, who had a ball kicked down his throat and created an unbelievable try, there weren't any backs that stood out.

"So it's hard to fathom the logic behind the decision, certainly from my point of view."

Easy enough Paul to understand it - Gats did it because he could do it.

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12040/8818532/Paul-O-Connell-disappointed-by-decision-to-drop-Brian-O-Driscoll-for-final-Lions-Test

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Is France still top 10. PSA seems just as clueless as Lievremont.

Australia don't want another conservative Kiwi but Ireland did have Gatland as Kidney until he was ousted by the superior Kidney.  SA will never get a foreign coach. There are reasons why teams won't take Gats but being a bad coach is not the reason you scamp!

Gatland suits Wales and Wales suits Gatland because Wales need to have a very authoritarian coach to keep them from losing the plot. Since Keith Wood got him fired from Ireland, he doesn't like players that will talk back at him.

Just because France or SA could do with a new coach doesn't mean they would be interested in Gatland.

As they are team mates this revelation is hardly earth shattering stuff. You could get a comment from Jamie Roberts somewhere along the lines of dropping BOD was a bold call but the result means that it was not the wrong decision.

Fast Eddie pulled one on Gats. Name a coach that likes a player talking back to him.