Gatland blasts critics...good on ya Gats

First topic message reminder :

http://www.allblacks.com/news/22679/Gatland-blasts-critics

Back home for you Gats, if they can't respect ya, we've plenty of teams that will.

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Its a sweltering day in the uk ladies and gents. The boys are back in town and its time to re-energise the batteries. Looking forward to a few weeks in the sun before the pre-season, then its all systems go.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:What are the odds it wazzes down with rain and it's a 9-all draw.

It'll be a brutal 9-9 draw if so.

I'm actually looking forward to it as much as I'm looking forward to our games against Munster and Leinster. That just shows how the rivalry is moving up a gear.

So there was a positive to the Lions tour after all!  

Notch wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:What are the odds it wazzes down with rain and it's a 9-all draw.

It'll be a brutal 9-9 draw if so.

I'm actually looking forward to it as much as I'm looking forward to our games against Munster and Leinster. That just shows how the rivalry is moving up a gear.

It must be a Rabbo thing. 

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So there was a positive to the Lions tour after all!  

I actually really enjoyed a few games on the tour including the final test. I don't think Gatland did a great job but he pulled it out at the end. On the whole, I'm still supportive of the Lions concept- where else could you find such a dramatic and riveting test series. Rugby needs the Lions.

Gatland is a very lucky boy we got away with the series though. Two very poor tests in terms of performance, selections and tactics but we got away with it!

Notch wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So there was a positive to the Lions tour after all!  

I actually really enjoyed a few games on the tour including the final test. I don't think Gatland did a great job but he pulled it out at the end. On the whole, I'm still supportive of the Lions concept- where else could you find such a dramatic and riveting test series. Rugby needs the Lions.

Gatland is a very lucky boy we got away with the series though. Two very poor tests in terms of performance, selections and tactics but we got away with it!

I do tend to agree with you Notch. Gatland was lucky to come away with the series win 2-1. If that Leolfano( the Australian goal kicker had played the full eighty in the First test, it would of been a different out come.

But like they say a win is a win and the Lions won.

Notch mate...I agree entirely

If the Aussies had a kicker we would have lost the series 3-0. The 3rd test would probably have shown Oz been 12 pts up by halftime if they had taken the five pens.....

Well, I got the perfect example of how much in awe the Irish rugby fan is of BOD after the first test. I was on an Irish tour (and it was great) and we all regathered in the function room set aside for us at The Paddo, a short walk from the ground.

The post match interviews were in full swing but everyone was necking back the free booze and chatting away. Then BOD steps up to be interviewed. Everyone is told to 'sshhh' so they can listen to the great one speak.

I had to let out a suppressed laugh - it was funny how one guy could hold a group of people in thrall. Once the interview was over it was 'as you were' and everyone went back to their pints and talk.

I have never seen that kind of deification of any other player by fans just because they are being interviewed on TV.

So no one should be surprised at the explosion of hubris from Ireland over the dropping of BOD. He is not just a rugby player in Ireland.

Lions showed their superiority in the third test... for me throughout it was like watching two teams play well below what they were capable of and whichever one managed to click would win it. It just happened for the Lions.

Does the third test validate Gatland? Maybe. It's probably the hardest job in rugby isn't it? Had it been 2-0 to the Wallabies, who had been better in both tests, by then it wouldn't have mattered. We were very close to that- the first two tests could have gone either way. I feel like the best (marginally) team won the series overall but thats because we rolled the dice and got a hard six in the last. Call it a masterstroke or good luck or just the culmination of 16 years of hurt it doesn't matter, history is written by the victors so Gatlands critics won't get much change... he gets the last laugh. But certainly after two tests I thought the Aussies had been better in both. You can understand why dropping the most experienced player and Captain we had left wasn't greeted with universal acclaim surely?

Hound of Harrow wrote:He is not just a rugby player in Ireland.

Thats the essence of it, yes. We were never arguing about a rugby player versus a rugby player. The reason we wanted to see BOD in was because he is an inspiring figure, a living legend to us, a leader who has pulled team after team over the line in tight games.

Gatland is not so romantic.

That's what I was trying to convey, Notch.

Difficult for some people to understand what BOD means to an Irish rughy fan.

Hound of Harrow wrote:Well, I got the perfect example of how much in awe the Irish rugby fan is of BOD after the first test. I was on an Irish tour (and it was great) and we all regathered in the function room set aside for us at The Paddo, a short walk from the ground.

The post match interviews were in full swing but everyone was necking back the free booze and chatting away. Then BOD steps up to be interviewed. Everyone is told to 'sshhh' so they can listen to the great one speak.

I had to let out a suppressed laugh - it was funny how one guy could hold a group of people in thrall. Once the interview was over it was 'as you were' and everyone went back to their pints and talk.

I have never seen that kind of deification of any other player by fans just because they are being interviewed on TV.

So no one should be surprised at the explosion of hubris from Ireland over the dropping of BOD. He is not just a rugby player in Ireland.

Yeah...guilty as charged.  And well put Honud.  It's true.  Can't deny it - wouldn't even try to. I think Gatland himself got a shock too at how deep the sense of gratitude goes between the Irish and their old crippled warrior.  He didn't realise the depth ....maybe thought he could glide past it without being hit by the tornado.

Anyway, we do have iconic figures in this country that rise above their actual occupation and become living legends.  That's the same for all countries though, people only seem to get surprised when they see the Irish engage in it.  Most of all we value hard work, sweat and honesty - not a guy sucking up publicity by doing very little pain to get it. BOD was a workhorse hero, not a style one.  BOD put in the pain both physically and mentally (losing and losing and losing with less than spectacular Irish sides).  We honour that and we saw it still in operation during this Lions tour.  Honesty of effort - blood, sweat and then perhaps private tears  Someone else didn't see that and that angered us.

Hound of Harrow wrote:That's what I was trying to convey, Notch.

Difficult for some people to understand what BOD means to an Irish rughy fan.

And to the Irish rugby players. After the Lions won Johnny Sexton said "I felt like I had been dropped myself." Paul O'Connell said "I wouldn't say it took the gloss off it a little bit for me, but it probably did" and described Gatlands logic as "hard to fathom".

O'Driscolls reaction to being dropped must have been so crucial in the build-up. We know he was the model professional, had he gone off tour the Irish lads might have followed and a divided dressing room... these guys gave everything for the Lions on this tour but this is their International Captain, the guy they look to most. I think it was an unnecessary risk in truth, I still do. If it spilt the camp as much as it split the fanbase it could have handed the series to Australia.

Fortunately BOD showed the way again. He was the perfect tourist and that kept the team together. Mark of the man.

we all got our heroes but i dont think any other player being dropped would coarse such an outcry . your New coach will be playing bod in his forties  

It's his last contracted year. Schmidt has the respect and loyalty of Leinster fans- I think he is the only guy who could possibly get away with it!

I think there won't be anywhere near the same problem so long as it looks like a good decision for rugby reasons.

That was the main problem, that quite a few of us did not think it was a good rugby decision. I understand that some folk do and that is fine. But please don't call me a xenophobic fool or bitter or deluded or "not a real rugby/Lions fan" just because I disagree with you.

MrsP wrote:That was the main problem, that quite a few of us did not think it was a good rugby decision. I understand that some folk do and that is fine. But please don't call me a xenophobic fool or bitter or deluded or "not a [i]real rugby/Lions fan just because I disagree with you.

That has been the worst thing about the last few weeks. The witchhunt against people who simply disagreed with the call.

I haven't been name calling anybody, nor witch hunting but on the other side of the coin there have also been enough people on here who can't accept any reasoning why Davies was selected.

Risca Rev wrote:I haven't been name calling anybody, nor witch hunting but on the other side of the coin there have also been enough people on here who can't accept any reasoning why Davies was selected.

Thats where you are wrong. We're not stupid. I accept the reasoning- I could see the logic in the call I just thought it was the wrong call. I disagreed and to a certain extent I still do.

Agree to disagree?

Davies is a good player.  I've said numerous times it's not about Davies v BOD.  It's about there being a lot of 'reasoning' that went into choosing a young player who'll undoubtedly have more Lions tours and not choosing a long term servant to the Lions philosophy who was on his last tour.

Had Davies been performing better than O'Driscoll, there would be a tactics reason there potentially.  He hadn't performed better but there were certainly 'reasons' he was still chosen.  Those reasons had nothing to do with the idea that with Davies - 'we win' - with BOD - 'we lose'.  Gatland even admitted that truth after the game. Pity the truth came after the game.

SecretFly wrote:Davies is a good player.  I've said numerous times it's not about Davies v BOD.  It's about there being a lot of 'reasoning' that went into choosing a young player who'll undoubtedly have more Lions tours and not choosing a long term servant to the Lions philosophy who was on his last tour.

Had Davies been performing better than O'Driscoll, there would be a tactics reason there potentially.  He hadn't performed better but there were certainly 'reasons' he was still chosen.  Those reasons had nothing to do with the idea that with Davies - 'we win' - with BOD - 'we lose'.  Gatland even admitted that truth after the game.  Pity the truth came after the game.

But there is a tactical reason in that Gatland knows Roberts and Davies work. I don't suggest for one minute that we'd have lost with BOD, but we couldn't gamble in the hope that Roberts and BOD pick up from four years ago. Nobody would've thought that we'd do that to Australia (in fact a lot of people on here were adamant momentum was with them) and so it's easy to say in hindsight that Davies' selection didn't make a difference.

I think that's pretty poor reasoning to say he should've favoured O'Driscoll as it's his last Lions tour and Davies will undoubtedly have more. There's no certainties like that.

I wonder if BOD will allegedly be so forthcoming in his praise in future to a younger centre rival.

Risca, remind me again how many times has this tried and tested combination of Roberts & Davies lost to Australia?

I wonder would Gatland have dropped Warburton if he hadn't got injured because that combination in the backrow wasn't working.

If we were working on that proviso, we'd have pretty slim pickings for the tour wouldn't we.

Warburton did just fine in the second test. He did what he could in the first too (where the backrow was unbalanced more then if anything).

No we wouldn't. Scotland, Ireland and England have beaten Australia in the recent past (in fact up to the Lions, Conor Murray had never lost a match against them and even won with Munster when he was in the academy*).

Warburton did ok, but its a team sport and his combination/partnerships in the backrow wasn't working. Would Gatland have had the gut to drop him if he didn't get injured?  Sean O'Brien was one of the few Lions players that the Australians feared and he couldn't get into the team on merit.

There are several Munster academy players who have wins over Australia.

Sin é wrote:Risca, remind me again how many times has this tried and tested combination of Roberts & Davies lost to Australia?

I wonder would Gatland have dropped Warburton if he hadn't got injured because that combination in the backrow wasn't working.

Bottom line; Davies is bigger, faster and more powerful than the ageing BOD. Experience and past brilliance count for virtually nothing in the modern game.

And, lest anyone think this is a Welsh over d'oIrish bias, Sean O'Brien should've been picked to start every single game. That boy is a pure rugby freak and would be first choice in any Welsh/Lions backrow, had he found a 'Welsh' 'grandparent' somewhere.

 God! they still all whinging on about a fella who was dropped and then the team put 41 points on the Aussies. For feck sake move on; your bleating and victimisation is getting a little past it now. He was dropped and they stuffed the opposition; which part of that do you not understand. Gatland in all honesty said after the game that they would have probably won even with BOD just to satisfy those in mourning.

There really is no room in Rubyland for an alternate view, is there?

 

Makes the whole "discussion" part of a forum a bit redundant.

To be fair, I think we've gone round in circles enough with this now anyway. Roll on the grudge matches next Feb when we can all start sparring again  

To be fair Rev I am sure that the  will start again in mid November as Wales lose to Argentina and Tonga at the Millenium! 

Ozzy3213 wrote:To be fair Rev I am sure that the  will start again in mid November as Wales lose to Argentina and Tonga at the Millenium! 

You're not wrong  

When I contrast how BOD reacted in 2005 with how he did in 2013, albeit in vastly different circumstances, I for one commend the guy for keeping his head down this time around and not creating a fuss. A once great player whose reaction (or non-reaction) has added to his legacy rather than detracted from it in my eyes. He took the higher ground and proved he did not think he was bigger than the team.

[quote="Notch"][quote="Luckless Pedestrian"]So there was a positive to the Lions tour after all!  [/quote]

I actually really enjoyed a few games on the tour including the final test. I don't think Gatland did a great job but he pulled it out at the end. On the whole, I'm still supportive of the Lions concept- where else could you find such a dramatic and riveting test series. Rugby needs the Lions.

Gatland is a very lucky boy we got away with the series though. Two very poor tests in terms of performance, selections and tactics but we got away with it![/quote]

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Spot on a very lucky Gats.  

The team selections were poor and IMHO the original squad selection was flawed.  ONLY taking two 10's ??????????????? and no utility back

Allty, maybe Gatland designed it that way. Played a rubbish kick game in G2 and blew them away with a more running plan in G3. Neither Oz or any of us could have anticipated how good the lions were in G3. Maybe it took this 'mind game' to win the series. Not a lucky Gats, but a clever Gats.

RubyGuby wrote: God! they still all whinging on about a fella who was  dropped and then the team put 41 points on the Aussies. For feck sake move on; your bleating and victimisation is getting a little past it now. He was dropped and they stuffed the opposition; which part of that do you not understand. Gatland in all honesty said after the game that they would have probably won even with BOD just to satisfy those in mourning.  

Its true though- lets be honest. When you go 7-0 up in the first few mins and your pack is crushing them, doesn't matter who is playing 13! First 25 minutes was a forwards blitz they couldn't handle and laid the foundation. Even though they pulled themselves back into it the intensity told at the end and they broke in the last quarter. Thats the funny/ironic part for me. I can't see the call actually making any difference to the performance or result if it was reversed! If BOD played we still would have hammered them. Maybe things would have been a little different but the big difference was the platform we were getting from our pack- that kind of platform would have seen us win the first two tests handy as well imo.

 You have a point Notch

Notch wrote:O'Driscolls reaction to being dropped must have been so crucial in the build-up. We know he was the model professional, had he gone off tour the Irish lads might have followed and a divided dressing room... these guys gave everything for the Lions on this tour but this is their International Captain, the guy they look to most. I think it was an unnecessary risk in truth, I still do. If it spilt the camp as much as it split the fanbase it could have handed the series to Australia.

Fortunately BOD showed the way again. He was the perfect tourist and that kept the team together. Mark of the man.

It doesn't surprise me that O'Driscoll stayed committed to the cause despite not being in the match-day squad. He understands that rugby isn't about the individual, never has been. He still wanted that Lions series win and was always going to do everything he could to get it. Isn't there a saying about how you respond to disappointment being the true indicator of character, or something like that? Well if anyone had any doubt over what kind of man O'Driscoll is, last week put them to rest.

It wasn't the dream ending for him with the Lions, but in a way, it's still a fine way to bow out. To quote Cliff Morgan: what a guy.

So many man sausage's on this forum hahahaha

Gatland was luck.

Australia could have won if they had kicked better.

Aussie should have won 3 - 0.

Scotland should have had 23 players in the squad.

BOD should have played at both 12 & 13 in the last test.

Sour grapes with a dash of wum = cocks

Its going to be a very long time before any future Irish Rugby player can exceed the fame of BOD, in fact will it ever happen?

There wouldn't be cocks if there weren't any tw@ts.

Ever is a long word Aucks.. yes I am sure another one will pop up- It may take 1000 years but I am sure it will happen

i seriously think some people think of bod when in bed with their wives  

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i seriously think some people think of bod when in bed with their wives  

Depends entirely on the quality of the wife.

mystiroakey wrote:Ever is a long word Aucks.. yes I am sure another one will pop up- It may take 1000 years but I am sure it will happen

Mystir, I think more like the next guy will have to live to be a 1000.

rainbow-warrior wrote:So many man sausage's on this forum hahahaha

Gatland was luck.

Australia could have won if they had kicked better.

Aussie should have won 3 - 0.

Scotland should have had 23 players in the squad.

BOD should have played at both 12 & 13 in the last test.

Sour grapes with a dash of wum = cocks

So much class, and so much irony...

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i seriously think some people think of bod when in bed with their wives  

Maybe that says more about you, and your strange fantasies  

Munchkin wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i seriously think some people think of bod when in bed with their wives  

Maybe that says more about you, and your strange fantasies  

 

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i seriously think some people think of bod when in bed with their wives  

 How many wives have you got?..

aucklandlaurie wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i seriously think some people think of bod when in bed with their wives  

 How many wives have you got?..

  none which is great

aucklandlaurie wrote: Its going to be a very long time before any future Irish Rugby player can exceed the fame of BOD, in fact will it ever happen?

Dropping BOD controversially like Gatland did certainly helped that infamy. When you have players like Dan Carter & Sonny Bill tweeting about it.


Great interview about the Tour from Paul O'Connell last night on Off the Ball. Looks like he studied carefully Gatland's training methods (even getting tackling training from Lydiate). One interesting comment he made was that unlike in Ireland, non of the players (senior or otherwise) had any input into training.

Is that why Wales keeps bombing against SH opposition - the players just do what they are told to do.

http://www.newstalk.ie/player/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/Rugby_on_Off_The_Ball/26893/0/the_paul_oconnell_interview

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:i seriously think some people think of bod when in bed with their wives  

 How many wives have you got?..

             none which is great

Something you want to tell us Jimmy?