Merged thread euro competition

[Portnoy's Complaint]

First topic message reminder :

Apparently there's a meeting today of two mighty behemoths of the English game meet to (presumably) find a common position on the wreckage of the negotiations on the future of European competition.

It will be interesting if they come to any clear (I doubt that it will be satisfactory) conclusion.

This, remember, is a discussion between two spectacularly incompetent bodies which have presided over farcical maladministration over the past decade.

The RFU, standard bearers of the ideals and ethos of the famed 57 Old Farts, have stumbled and staggered their way 'forward' since the dawn of professionalism.
vs
The PRL who have never managed to provide a satisfactory cohesive, decision which actually improves the English game with a satisfactory watertight, long term 'what if?' structured set of rules. They in their short history have represented solely the elite game through a seemingly never-ending stream of short-term, knee-jerk decisions which sow the quick-germinating seeds of insoluble and self-contradictory positions for the future. From its inception it has been nothing less than a disaster from the issue of voting shares, through parachute payments to the fundamental process of promotion/relegation itself. Bumbling incompetents.

Unfortunately they (the PRL) have the players and therefore all the cards over the RFU exactly two years before the 2015 RWC starts on English soil.

Grim and depressing innit? Especially for non-combatants.

[gregortree]

Bruce Craig Says:
"All the Pro12 clubs - from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy - currently participating in the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup, which is run by the company European Rugby Cup (ERC), have received invitations to join the Anglo-French breakaway competition.Craig, who is chairman of Bath, believes every Pro12 team is prepared to sign up to the new competition, but that they are being held back by their national governing bodies.He has warned the national unions from interfering, and also indicated that they and the International Rugby Board (IRB) could face court action if they attempt to stop the Rugby Champions Cup."
Seems to be blaming the Union bodies for getting in the way. He is chairman of Bath mind you.

[rodders]

And how would they ever get to fight anyway? If it's on land, the squid's a goner and if it's in the sea, the squib doesn't stand a chance.

I'd have thought they could settle their differences via 606v2 debate...

[rodders]

Bruce Craig Says:
"All the Pro12 clubs - from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy - currently participating in the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup, which is run by the company European Rugby Cup (ERC), have received invitations to join the Anglo-French breakaway competition.Craig, who is chairman of Bath, believes every Pro12 team is prepared to sign up to the new competition, but that they are being held back by their national governing bodies.He has warned the national unions from interfering, and also indicated that they and the International Rugby Board (IRB) could face court action if they attempt to stop the Rugby Champions Cup."
Seems to be blaming the Union bodies for getting in the way. He is chairman of Bath mind you.

Well he's an idiot then isn't he because he should know that the Irish and Scottish teams are run and funded by their Unions so the idea that the Union is interfering in something that doesn't concern them is deluded and misguided. Whether they like it or not the Unions are major stakeholders in any club competition involving the Irish, Welsh and Scottish teams. Any dispute they have with the RFU is their problem.

[gregortree]

ok, now we are squibbling over the details... so this means a new European Comp is definitely on then ?

[Scrumpy]

 The top ten misquotes by British people are as follows:

1) A damp squid (a damp squib)
 
2) On tender hooks (on tenter hooks)
 
3) Nip it in the butt (nip it in the bud)
 
4) Champing at the bit (chomping at the bit)
 
5) A mute point (a moot point)
 
6) One foul swoop (one fell swoop)
 
7) All that glitters is not gold (all that glisters is not gold)
 
8) Adverse to (averse to)
 
9) Batting down the hatches (batten down the hatches)
 
10) Find a penny pick it up (find a pin pick it up)


 

[rodders]

squibbling or squiddling?

[gregortree]

Bruce Craig Says:
"All the Pro12 clubs - from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy - currently participating in the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup, which is run by the company European Rugby Cup (ERC), have received invitations to join the Anglo-French breakaway competition.Craig, who is chairman of Bath, believes every Pro12 team is prepared to sign up to the new competition, but that they are being held back by their national governing bodies.He has warned the national unions from interfering, and also indicated that they and the International Rugby Board (IRB) could face court action if they attempt to stop the Rugby Champions Cup."
Seems to be blaming the Union bodies for getting in the way. He is chairman of Bath mind you.

Well he's an idiot then isn't he because he should know that the Irish and Scottish teams are run and funded by their Unions so the idea that the Union is interfering in something that doesn't concern them is deluded and misguided. Whether they like it or not the Unions are major stakeholders in any club competition involving the Irish, Welsh and Scottish teams. Any dispute they have with the RFU is their problem.

Not being funny here Rodders, but I guess the Unions do listen to their clubs too ? If the clubs are really up for it, they would make this known to their Unions ? I have no idea if the Bruce assertion has substance mind. Sounds like he has a Scots name.. maybe he knows.

[The Saint]

I read that statement from Bruce Craig on ESPN recently. It's just the usual turd being chucked out by the PRL brigade. As for Craig, he's a fool. And he's one of those guys you would love to (in my case) take as your sparring partner to your Thai boxing class. He just has one of those faces...but also the attitude to match.  

[rodders]

Bruce Craig Says:
"All the Pro12 clubs - from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy - currently participating in the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup, which is run by the company European Rugby Cup (ERC), have received invitations to join the Anglo-French breakaway competition.Craig, who is chairman of Bath, believes every Pro12 team is prepared to sign up to the new competition, but that they are being held back by their national governing bodies.He has warned the national unions from interfering, and also indicated that they and the International Rugby Board (IRB) could face court action if they attempt to stop the Rugby Champions Cup."
Seems to be blaming the Union bodies for getting in the way. He is chairman of Bath mind you.

Well he's an idiot then isn't he because he should know that the Irish and Scottish teams are run and funded by their Unions so the idea that the Union is interfering in something that doesn't concern them is deluded and misguided. Whether they like it or not the Unions are major stakeholders in any club competition involving the Irish, Welsh and Scottish teams. Any dispute they have with the RFU is their problem.

Not being funny here Rodders, but I guess the Unions do listen to their clubs too ? If the clubs are really up for it, they would make this known to their Unions ? I have no idea if the Bruce assertion has substance mind. Sounds like he has a Scots name.. maybe he knows.

Yes of course the provinces have a say but the decision would lie with the Union, not the individual provinces.

[Scrumpy]

I'm amazed how bitchy some of you are, you're like a bunch of teenaged girls.
Bruce can't help it if he looks like a Kumquat or is it the fact he is mega rich that bugs you?


He talks a lot of sense maybe some of you should just listen or read what he has to say.

[RF09]

Rugby Champions Cup - Why it will happen
1. Eng & French want the new tournament and will not come back to the ERC table - Why? The BT Vision deal.
2. Rabo qualification is a side issue...see 1. above
3. ERC stakeholders don't meet til late Oct & to date meetings have been fruitless and few & far between....see 1. above
3. Organisers of the new tournament stating 'They have received positive reactions to it' & perhaps the celtic nations perhaps already also spoken to their unions...
4. Thus is it just about how much the celtic nations can negotiate to get from the TV deal.
5. Everyone needs it..not just the Celtic teams and ERC Hcup is dead - Why - See 1 above


Rabo Qualitification
Bonus - Positive effect on the quality of the Rabo with them having to play better teams.
Negative - Lack of understanding from the English about how the game is run in celtic nations & why they are union run?
- Simple its player numbers....Huge in Eng & France in comparison and if celtic nations do not protect their players, their lack of depth leads to a weakened national team.
Before we argue why the Welsh team seems to do well even though most play in Eng or FR...have we really seen the effect yet of this exodus yet? Only time will tell..

[Notch]

Bruce Craig Says:
"All the Pro12 clubs - from Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy - currently participating in the Heineken Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup, which is run by the company European Rugby Cup (ERC), have received invitations to join the Anglo-French breakaway competition.Craig, who is chairman of Bath, believes every Pro12 team is prepared to sign up to the new competition, but that they are being held back by their national governing bodies.He has warned the national unions from interfering, and also indicated that they and the International Rugby Board (IRB) could face court action if they attempt to stop the Rugby Champions Cup."
Seems to be blaming the Union bodies for getting in the way. He is chairman of Bath mind you.

Well he's an idiot then isn't he because he should know that the Irish and Scottish teams are run and funded by their Unions so the idea that the Union is interfering in something that doesn't concern them is deluded and misguided. Whether they like it or not the Unions are major stakeholders in any club competition involving the Irish, Welsh and Scottish teams. Any dispute they have with the RFU is their problem.

Not being funny here Rodders, but I guess the Unions do listen to their clubs too ? If the clubs are really up for it, they would make this known to their Unions ? I have no idea if the Bruce assertion has substance mind. Sounds like he has a Scots name.. maybe he knows.

Yes of course the provinces have a say but the decision would lie with the Union, not the individual provinces.

Like I said before, the IRFU own the provinces grounds (with the exception of the RDS, which is leased by Leinster Rugby) and all Irish players are centrally contracted. There is no Ulster Rugby or Munster Rugby without the IRFU.

[The Saint]

I'm amazed how bitchy some of you are, you're like a bunch of teenaged girls.
Bruce can't help it if he looks like a Kumquat or is it the fact he is mega rich that bugs you?


He talks a lot of sense maybe some of you should just listen or read what he has to say.

Rushing to the defence of your first crush... Touching.

No he doesn't. Some parts of the new proposal make sense, but for the most part, it's whinging about a psuedo advantage that these celts have and how they should have more money.

[Notch]

Anyway, IRFU Statement;

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29776.php

The Irish Rugby Football Union wishes to clarify that its clubs/provinces will not be participating in future tournaments which do not have the full approval of the International Rugby Board (IRB) or the relevant National Rugby Unions.

The IRFU and its clubs remain fully committed to the development of a pan European Rugby Competition and we welcome the recent comments made by the IRB Chairman, who confirmed that a pan European tournament remains the goal of the IRB. We are confident this can be achieved.

Our focus now is to work collaboratively with our colleagues across Europe, encouraging all parties to come to the table in order to engage in and conclude negotiations as speedily as possible.

Their position is that only a tournament that is supported by ALL relevant Unions can be supported by the IRFU.

[Scrumpy]

I'm amazed how bitchy some of you are, you're like a bunch of teenaged girls.
Bruce can't help it if he looks like a Kumquat or is it the fact he is mega rich that bugs you?


He talks a lot of sense maybe some of you should just listen or read what he has to say.

Rushing to the defence of your first crush... Touching.

No he doesn't. Some parts of the new proposal make sense, but for the most part, it's whinging about a psuedo advantage that these celts have and how they should have more money.

Of course he is going to whinge about that as that is the reason why the English and French clubs won't be signing another contract with ERC!
 
The HC is dead, move on.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Before we argue why the Welsh team seems to do well even though most play in Eng or FR...

Most? Really?

[HammerofThunor]

Anyway, IRFU Statement;

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29776.php

The Irish Rugby Football Union wishes to clarify that its clubs/provinces will not be participating in future tournaments which do not have the full approval of the International Rugby Board (IRB) or the relevant National Rugby Unions.

The IRFU and its clubs remain fully committed to the development of a pan European Rugby Competition and we welcome the recent comments made by the IRB Chairman, who confirmed that a pan European tournament remains the goal of the IRB. We are confident this can be achieved.

Our focus now is to work collaboratively with our colleagues across Europe, encouraging all parties to come to the table in order to engage in and conclude negotiations as speedily as possible.

Their position is that only a tournament that is supported by ALL relevant Unions can be supported by the IRFU.

Which unions are relevant? The ones taking part (that's pretty obvious, all the unions would only endorse a competition based on the union's taking part agreeing). Or the other Pro12 unions (as in if, let's say, the SRU so we want nothing to do with it will the IRFU not have anything to do with it?). Or does it include all the Unions in the Europe group (can't remember what it's called ), I doubt this one as no-one cares too much about most of them.

But note that it does NOT say that they will only join a competition that is governed by the ERC.

[The Saint]

I'm amazed how bitchy some of you are, you're like a bunch of teenaged girls.
Bruce can't help it if he looks like a Kumquat or is it the fact he is mega rich that bugs you?


He talks a lot of sense maybe some of you should just listen or read what he has to say.

Rushing to the defence of your first crush... Touching.

No he doesn't. Some parts of the new proposal make sense, but for the most part, it's whinging about a psuedo advantage that these celts have and how they should have more money.

Of course he is going to whinge about that as that is the reason why the English and French clubs won't be signing another contract with ERC!
 
The HC is dead, move on.

What reason? They want more money? Or, they believe the Pro12 has an advantage that doesn't exist?

It isn't dead. It's a great tournament. Stop regurgitating the turd leaving Craig's mouth.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Anyway, IRFU Statement;

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29776.php

The Irish Rugby Football Union wishes to clarify that its clubs/provinces will not be participating in future tournaments which do not have the full approval of the International Rugby Board (IRB) or the relevant National Rugby Unions.

The IRFU and its clubs remain fully committed to the development of a pan European Rugby Competition and we welcome the recent comments made by the IRB Chairman, who confirmed that a pan European tournament remains the goal of the IRB. We are confident this can be achieved.

Our focus now is to work collaboratively with our colleagues across Europe, encouraging all parties to come to the table in order to engage in and conclude negotiations as speedily as possible.

Their position is that only a tournament that is supported by ALL relevant Unions can be supported by the IRFU.

Same from SRU:

Scottish Rugby wishes to clarify that its clubs will not be participating in future tournaments which do not have the full approval of the International Rugby Board (IRB) or the relevant national Rugby Unions.

Scottish Rugby and its clubs remain fully committed to the development of a pan European Rugby Competition and we welcome the recent comments made by the IRB Chairman, who confirmed that a pan European tournament remains the goal of the IRB. We are confident this can be achieved

Scottish Rugby remains committed to working with our colleagues across Europe and encourages all parties to fully engage in meaningful negotiations. We hope that negotiations can be concluded quickly.

[IanBru]

Now we just need the RFU to grow a pair and we'll be sorted. I'd hate for the English club game to become irrelevant, but if those at the top of the PRL continue on this path, that's exactly what will happen.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Some hilarious stuff from Jacky Lorenzetti!

In the original French:

Interrogé par le Parisien ce mercredi, Jacky Lorenzetti, le président du Racing Metro 92, s’est pour la première fois exprimé sur la Rugby Champions Cup. Selon lui, cette compétition voulue par les ligues anglaise et française dépassera « le cercle européen ». L’homme fort du club francilien va encore plus loin : « Nous recréons un organisme mondial afin de lancer la Coupe du monde des clubs. Il y aura des équipes anglaises, françaises, néo-zélandaises, australiennes, sud-africaines. » Un projet de grande ampleur qui implique bien évidemment une énorme logistique, notamment au point de vue du calendrier. « Nous travaillons en ce sens », précise l'homme d'affaire.

La tête pleine de projets, les présidents des clubs de Top 14 semblent en effet décidés à mettre sur pied cette nouvelle compétition, qui selon eux, est plus en accord avec leurs besoins. Après Mourad Boudjellal, Jacky Lorenzetti est le deuxième président à monter au créneau contre à l’ERC, mais également contre la FFR : « Aujourd’hui la Coupe d’Europe est viciée. Elle est organisée par les fédérations. Ce n’est pas normal. » Selon lui, le rôle de la FFR doit se cantonner au XV de France : « Nous ne demandons pas à organiser le Tournoi des Six nations ! En revanche, tout ce qui concerne les clubs doit revenir à la Ligue nationale. » Laquelle a récemment déclaré, par l’intermédiaire de son président Paul Goze, que la mise en place du projet se poursuivrait et qu’il n’y aurait plus de négociations sur l’actuelle Coupe d’Europe.

Jacky Lorenzetti est donc persuadé que les fédérations « donneront leur accord », lequel est nécessaire pour que les clubs participent à la Rugby Champions Cup, car c’est « dans l’intérêt des clubs. » Reste également à convaincre l’IRB. Ici encore, le président du Racing ne voit pas où se situe le problème : « On ne fera pas une Coupe d’Europe bis. On ne veut pas entrer en concurrence avec l’épreuve actuelle. Je ne vois pas pourquoi l’IRB ne s’accorderait pas avec nous. Il suffit qu’il ait une volonté politique ». Voilà peut-être où se situe le problème à l'heure actuelle.

And an English translation courtesy of google:

Asked by Le Parisien on Wednesday , Jacky Lorenzetti , president of Racing Metro 92 , has for the first time expressed the Rugby Champions Cup. According to him, this desired by the English and French leagues competition exceed "the European circle." The strong man of the Paris Club goes even further : " We will create a global organization to launch the FIFA Club World Cup. There will be teams from the UK , French , New Zealand , Australian, South African . " A large-scale project which obviously involves huge logistics, including the views of the calendar. "We are working in this direction ," says the businessman .

Head full of projects, club presidents Top 14 indeed seem determined to develop this new competition , which they claim is more in tune with their needs. After Mourad Boudjellal , Jacky Lorenzetti is the second president to leap against the ERC , but also against the FFR : "Today the European Cup is flawed. It is organized by the federations. This is not normal . " According to him, the role of FFR must be confined to the XV of France :" We do not want to organize the Six Nations ! However, everything about the club must return to the LNR. " Which said recently, through its president Paul Goze , the implementation of the project would continue and there would be no more negotiations on the current European Cup .

Jacky Lorenzetti is convinced that the federations " give their consent ," which is necessary for the clubs involved in the Champions Cup Rugby , because it is "in the interest of clubs. " It also remains to convince the IRB. Again , the President of Racing can not see where the problem lies : " We will not do a poor Europe Cup. We do not want to compete with the current test. I do not see why the IRB would not agree with us. Simply it is a political will . " Perhaps this is where the problem lies at the moment .
Learn more about

[Scrumpy]

I'm amazed how bitchy some of you are, you're like a bunch of teenaged girls.
Bruce can't help it if he looks like a Kumquat or is it the fact he is mega rich that bugs you?


He talks a lot of sense maybe some of you should just listen or read what he has to say.

Rushing to the defence of your first crush... Touching.

No he doesn't. Some parts of the new proposal make sense, but for the most part, it's whinging about a psuedo advantage that these celts have and how they should have more money.

Of course he is going to whinge about that as that is the reason why the English and French clubs won't be signing another contract with ERC!
 
The HC is dead, move on.

What reason? They want more money? Or, they believe the Pro12 has an advantage that doesn't exist?

It isn't dead. It's a great tournament. Stop regurgitating the turd leaving Craig's mouth.

Both.

It's dead in the water without English and French clubs, it's been a average tournament for years stop believeing the hype created by Sky and the ERC.

Some people believe in any old Poopie if you say it enough.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I'm amazed how bitchy some of you are, you're like a bunch of teenaged girls.
Bruce can't help it if he looks like a Kumquat or is it the fact he is mega rich that bugs you?


He talks a lot of sense maybe some of you should just listen or read what he has to say.

Rushing to the defence of your first crush... Touching.

No he doesn't. Some parts of the new proposal make sense, but for the most part, it's whinging about a psuedo advantage that these celts have and how they should have more money.

Of course he is going to whinge about that as that is the reason why the English and French clubs won't be signing another contract with ERC!
 
The HC is dead, move on.

What reason? They want more money? Or, they believe the Pro12 has an advantage that doesn't exist?

It isn't dead. It's a great tournament. Stop regurgitating the turd leaving Craig's mouth.

Both.

It's dead in the water without English and French clubs, it's been a average tournament for years stop believeing the hype created by Sky and the ERC.

Some people believe in any old Poopie if you say it enough.

Can you substantiate that claim, Scrumpy, or have you been drinking your namesake? Have you been to any of the last 3 or so finals? A colourful spectacle with teams of all countries represented among the fans who have turned up to see the rugby - absolutely fantastic - long may it continue

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It isn't dead. It's a great tournament. Stop regurgitating the turd leaving Craig's mouth.

It's dead in the water without English and French clubs

Which needn't be the PRL and LNR clubs.

[The Saint]

I'm amazed how bitchy some of you are, you're like a bunch of teenaged girls.
Bruce can't help it if he looks like a Kumquat or is it the fact he is mega rich that bugs you?


He talks a lot of sense maybe some of you should just listen or read what he has to say.

Rushing to the defence of your first crush... Touching.

No he doesn't. Some parts of the new proposal make sense, but for the most part, it's whinging about a psuedo advantage that these celts have and how they should have more money.

Of course he is going to whinge about that as that is the reason why the English and French clubs won't be signing another contract with ERC!
 
The HC is dead, move on.

What reason? They want more money? Or, they believe the Pro12 has an advantage that doesn't exist?

It isn't dead. It's a great tournament. Stop regurgitating the turd leaving Craig's mouth.

Both.

It's dead in the water without English and French clubs, it's been a average tournament for years stop believeing the hype created by Sky and the ERC.

Some people believe in any old Poopie if you say it enough.

It pretty much is dead without English and French teams. This is why the H-cup is such a good tournament, because it represents each of the 6 Nations. Also, the new RCC won't be very good without Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian teams now will it. I don't buy into any hype from sky, I personally enjoy the tournament and have done so ever since I began watching it. I get the impression that some English rugby fans, spurred on by their club owners complaints, have just started to dislike the tournament because there hasn't been an English winner since 2007. So much for the English Premiership being the toughest in the world then...

Is that why you beleive what Craig says then? Is that why some England fans are hypnotised by the PRL? Scrumps allow me to break it to you. Craig, simply put, is afraid. Bath are unsustatinable unless they get more money, it would be underserved money might I add. If he had spent within his means then he wouldn't be bricking it. Rather than try and keep up with the French the English should have united with the Pro12 so we could save European rugby. I guess they don't really care about rugby though, they just care about more money.

I should point out here, that Harlequins and Exeter are two fine examples of how a rugby team in England should be run. Sarries and Bath are the bad examples.

[Casartelli]

I'm amazed how bitchy some of you are, you're like a bunch of teenaged girls.
Bruce can't help it if he looks like a Kumquat or is it the fact he is mega rich that bugs you?


He talks a lot of sense maybe some of you should just listen or read what he has to say.

Rushing to the defence of your first crush... Touching.

No he doesn't. Some parts of the new proposal make sense, but for the most part, it's whinging about a psuedo advantage that these celts have and how they should have more money.

Of course he is going to whinge about that as that is the reason why the English and French clubs won't be signing another contract with ERC!
 
The HC is dead, move on.

What reason? They want more money? Or, they believe the Pro12 has an advantage that doesn't exist?

It isn't dead. It's a great tournament. Stop regurgitating the turd leaving Craig's mouth.

Both.

It's dead in the water without English and French clubs, it's been a average tournament for years stop believeing the hype created by Sky and the ERC.

Some people believe in any old Poopie if you say it enough.

It pretty much is dead without English and French teams. This is why the H-cup is such a good tournament, because it represents each of the 6 Nations. Also, the new RCC won't be very good without Irish, Welsh, Scottish and Italian teams now will it. I don't buy into any hype from sky, I personally enjoy the tournament and have done so ever since I began watching it. I get the impression that some English rugby fans, spurred on by their club owners complaints, have just started to dislike the tournament because there hasn't been an English winner since 2007. So much for the English Premiership being the toughest in the world then...

Is that why you beleive what Craig says then? Is that why some England fans are hypnotised by the PRL? Scrumps allow me to break it to you. Craig, simply put, is afraid. Bath are unsustatinable unless they get more money, it would be underserved money might I add. If he had spent within his means then he wouldn't be bricking it. Rather than try and keep up with the French the English should have united with the Pro12 so we could save European rugby. I guess they don't really care about rugby though, they just care about more money.

I should point out here, that Harlequins and Exeter are two fine examples of how a rugby team in England should be run. Sarries and Bath are the bad examples.

A rather nice summary of the situation thus far.

[Notch]

Anyway, IRFU Statement;

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/29776.php

The Irish Rugby Football Union wishes to clarify that its clubs/provinces will not be participating in future tournaments which do not have the full approval of the International Rugby Board (IRB) or the relevant National Rugby Unions.

The IRFU and its clubs remain fully committed to the development of a pan European Rugby Competition and we welcome the recent comments made by the IRB Chairman, who confirmed that a pan European tournament remains the goal of the IRB. We are confident this can be achieved.

Our focus now is to work collaboratively with our colleagues across Europe, encouraging all parties to come to the table in order to engage in and conclude negotiations as speedily as possible.

Their position is that only a tournament that is supported by ALL relevant Unions can be supported by the IRFU.

Which unions are relevant? The ones taking part (that's pretty obvious, all the unions would only endorse a competition based on the union's taking part agreeing). Or the other Pro12 unions (as in if, let's say, the SRU so we want nothing to do with it will the IRFU not have anything to do with it?). Or does it include all the Unions in the Europe group (can't remember what it's called ), I doubt this one as no-one cares too much about most of them.

But note that it does NOT say that they will only join a competition that is governed by the ERC.

It doesn't, which I'm actually happy about, but it sets the red line as- we won't be participating in a tournament with English and French teams that the RFU and FFR don't approve.

The WRU and SRU released nearly identical statements at the same time as the Irish- a co-ordinated and uniform response. If we can just get everybody talking again we could be back from the brink...

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3822_8942592,00.html

[St John The Enforcer]

I think the WRU have come out with the same statement as the Irfu and the Sfu.

All still up in the air.

[RF09]

Before we argue why the Welsh team seems to do well even though most play in Eng or FR...

Most? Really?

Ok fair enough...a small handfull of the international team...probably more of a proportion of the team that plays club rugby outside their country than the other celtic nations.

[HammerofThunor]

Notch, I still don't think the PRL would compete in a competition not sanctioned by the RFU. They may challenge a decision not to sanction if they feel it's unjustified but they've already said they're prepared to go without European rugby.

The LNR are the bullish about playing regardless

[Notch]

Yes, with the furore over the Lux decision and the recent statements by the FFR and various rich French club owners it feels more and more like we're looking at the collateral damage from an internal civil war taking the European Cup down with it.

The richest clubs of the LNR are the greatest threat to rugby worldwide there is today... for me, much bigger than European competition, the IRB needs to act on residency because with big French clubs- and now Saracens- setting up programmes in the Pacific Island nations to skim off young talent and have these kids fully naturalised by the time they leave the Academy enormous damage could be done to the future of Fiji, Samoa and Tonga.

Thats the most pressing issue the IRB needs to act on today, it's continual failure to do so is incredibly frustrating.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

FIR have issued the same statement too

[The Saint]

United we stand, let us save European rugby.  

[Notch]

The new Rugby Champions Cup will surely hit back on their official twitter account soon...

https://twitter.com/rugbychampionsc

[The Saint]

Let's guess what they will say.

"The Heineken Cup is dead."

"You're welcome to join the new competition."

"We're at an unfair disadvantage boo hoo."

[Scrumpy]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Put your prejudices aside for a moment and read/listen to what the offer is from PRL/LNR. Don't do what ERC have done and bury your heads in the sand.

Resorting to personal insults and slagging off individual clubs shows that you argument is weak.

[Notch]

Woooosh.

[Notch]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Put your prejudices aside for a moment and read/listen to what the offer is from PRL/LNR. Don't do what ERC have done and bury your heads in the sand.

I'm open to that, but I fully support the stance of the Celtic Unions in that any tournament must be supported by all Unions and the IRB. Not necessarily governed- but the blessing of them is essential.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

The new Rugby Champions Cup will surely hit back on their official twitter account soon...

https://twitter.com/rugbychampionsc

Brilliant

[rodders]

United we stand, let us save European rugby.  

Let the English and French clubs leave and block any players participating in the chumpions cup from playing International rugby, as per what happened in the ARL in the 90's. See how long that competition can last then. A handful of greedy money men behind a few big clubs can't be allowed to run the sport in the NH, nor can BT.

[Casartelli]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee......

"Smell the coffee"???

Is this a rugby thread? Or 'gridiron' dude?

Or maybe some folks need to start smelling what Bruce Craig be shovellin'? Y'all.

[Scrumpy]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee......

"Smell the coffee"???

Is this a rugby thread? Or 'gridiron' dude?

Or maybe some folks need to start smelling what Bruce Craig be shovellin'? Y'all.

Help I don't speak Toddler. 

?

[ScarletSpiderman]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee......

"Smell the coffee"???

Is this a rugby thread? Or 'gridiron' dude?

I've heard "come on boys wake up and smell the coffee" shouted from the terraces at one match before

[Casartelli]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee......

"Smell the coffee"???

Is this a rugby thread? Or 'gridiron' dude?

I've heard "come on boys wake up and smell the coffee" shouted from the terraces at one match before

Was he selling Starbucks at half time?

[Casartelli]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee......

"Smell the coffee"???

Is this a rugby thread? Or 'gridiron' dude?

Or maybe some folks need to start smelling what Bruce Craig be shovellin'? Y'all.

Help I don't speak Toddler. 

?

You should never give coffee to toddlers. That's like something Bruce Craig would do.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee......

"Smell the coffee"???

Is this a rugby thread? Or 'gridiron' dude?

I've heard "come on boys wake up and smell the coffee" shouted from the terraces at one match before

Were you playing Bath by any chance, Spidey?!

Interestingly our beloved and impartial BBC fails to report this new development at all, but still manages to gives second billing to Mr Craig's "financial oblivion" threat   Why am I not surprised?!

[ScarletSpiderman]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee......

"Smell the coffee"???

Is this a rugby thread? Or 'gridiron' dude?

I've heard "come on boys wake up and smell the coffee" shouted from the terraces at one match before

Was he selling Starbucks at half time?

Nope, sadly it was my brother in-law and he still gets some stick for it (8 years on).

[Solid8]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Put your prejudices aside for a moment and read/listen to what the offer is from PRL/LNR. Don't do what ERC have done and bury your heads in the sand.

Resorting to personal insults and slagging off individual clubs shows that you argument is weak.

The PRL and LNR have different objectives in this, please be under no illusions that their co-operation is a marriage of convenience, nothing more.  Also please consider that the LNR are not effected by the BT deal, if they were there would be no co-operation with the PRL on their part.

Because of these differences the PRL/LNR are negotiating from am increasingly weak position hence the irrational and frankly, in the case of Lorenzetti, absurd statements to the press.  The LNR are fighting their own Union for control of the game in France and without the support of the IRB, which they do not have, will lose possibly after a huge and costly legal battle.  The PRL are asking the Celtic Unions to go into commercial partnership with them without disclosing the full details of the most important revenue stream and asking the regions/provinces/clubs/teams to abandon their unions which they cannot do.  Can you name a successful commercial partnership that started off on such a destructive basis?  I can't! The normal route is to form said partnership and then seek revenue streams TOGETHER.

No one is denying that there needs to be reform of the governing bodies of the game of Rugby UNION the problem is that the PRL and the LNR are going about it backwards and expecting everyone else to tow the line.  The result of this is that the other bodies are closing ranks and uniting further weakening the position of the antagonists.

[No 7&1/2]

United we stand, let us save European rugby.  

Let the English and French clubs leave and block any players participating in the chumpions cup from playing International rugby, as per what happened in the ARL in the 90's. See how long that competition can last then. A handful of greedy money men behind a few big clubs can't be allowed to run the sport in the NH, nor can BT.

Wouldn't that be cutting off your nose though? Would seriously hit the NH meaning you wouldn't have France or England and a fair few big names from the rest.

[Casartelli]

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee......

"Smell the coffee"???

Is this a rugby thread? Or 'gridiron' dude?

I've heard "come on boys wake up and smell the coffee" shouted from the terraces at one match before

Was he selling Starbucks at half time?

Nope, sadly it was my brother in-law and he still gets some stick for it (8 years on).

This may be a tad 'off thread' - but I'm sure someone on here once mentioned a Youth coach who, during a quiet spell in a match, yelled out, in full-on Jim Telfer-esque tones, "this is your Everest boys!". Game was held up until both squads had stopped laughing.

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