Wales vs South Africa match buildup.

First topic message reminder :

OK boys, this weekend Wales and South Africa will both attempt to begin their Autumn Internationals with a win.

Both teams for different reasons.

Wales will want to build on their Six Nations form of the last two years, they will want to confirm to themselves that the British and Irish Lions tour was won because of their players, and they will want to progress from being Northern Hemisphere kings, to a team that has the ability to beat South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.

In my view, and possibly in the view of their supporters the time is now, it has been a while since Wales has been so dominant in Europe, the only thing missing before they can call themselves world beaters is to take the next step.

How much of it is mental, how much of it is due to the fact that they struggle to put 80 minute performances together I cannot be certain of, but what I do know is they have the ability, sadly it seems Cuthbert and Roberts will not be part of what I deem as the most talented and dangerous backline in Europe. For two reasons I might add, it is the most settled back line in Europe, and also very experienced.

Since the World Cup in 2011, Wales have won 9 of their 10 Six Nations matches, undoubtedly a very good record, however their problem was the seven match losing streak in between the two Six Nations.

South Africa on the other hand, has a new coach, been there for near two full seasons and he has made a difference.

Still not yet consistent, the concern is always how will Meyer ensure that the springboks perform on a consistent basis. In the past 18 months under Heyneke Meyer the boks had their fair share of poor games.

Last year out of the twelve test matches played the springboks managed to win 7 tests, drew 2 and lost three.

Although the three tests they lost were against New Zealand (twice) and Australia, there were a number of other performances that were not up to par. England in the third test at home, Argentina in Mendoza and New Zealand at home, those were poor performances by South Africa.

Although they went through the Autumn internationals unbeaten the were less than convincing.

I suppose the positive out of the performances were even when they played poorly, they managed to be on the right side of the scoreboard most of the time.

Although South Africa has shown improvement this year, the consistency is still under question.

The one aspect of their game that has improved immeasurably is their positive approach to attacking play, looking at the number of tries scored this year in comparison to last year it makes for astounding reading, in 2012 during 12 matches South Africa managed only 23 tries, conceding 16. This year in 9 tests they have managed 39 tries, conceding 18 tries.

Only New Zealand have managed to score regular tries against SA, totalling 15 tries in the last two years, the rest of their opponents only managed 19 tries in 17 matches.

Wales during 2012 managed to score 20 tries in conceding 17 in their 13 matches. During 2013 in their seven tests to date, they managed 11 tries, conceding 7.

If South Africa continues with their positive approach  to attacking plays I believe Wales will be hard pressed, their defence will have to be up to par, there is no doubt Wales will have a positive approach to the game, so from that perspective it should be an entertaining match.

There are some questions over the selections Meyer will make, will he bring Jaque Fourie, JP Pietersen and Bakkies Botha in for the first tour match, which would add significantly to the experience of the team, or will he give debutant Pieter Steph du Toit his first cap?

Of course Willie le Roux and JJ Engelbrecht may yet be inexperienced, but in my view it would be unfair to summarily dismiss them in favour of the old hands.

Wales have a few selection issues as well, who will replace Cuthbert and Roberts, and the ultimate question, will Phillips’ disciplinary record affect his chances for selection?

I still wonder who is the best fly half in Wales.

Come what may, this match should be a tough encounter, will SA prove they have made the step up and show consistency, or will Wales make the next leap towards world domination?

Springbok team for Wales.

The Springbok team to face Wales in Cardiff is:

15. Pat Lambie 29 caps 55 points
14. JP Pietersen 48 caps 70 points
13. Jaque Fourie 69 caps 160 points
12. Jean de Villiers (captain) 93 caps 120 points
11. Bryan Habana 92 caps 265 points
10. Morné Steyn 51 caps 618 points
9. Fourie du Preez 65 caps 70 points
8. Duane Vermeulen 13 caps 5 points
7. Willem Alberts 27 caps 30 points
6. Francois Louw 25 caps 25 points
5. Flip van der Merwe 31 caps 5 points
4. Eben Etzebeth 20 caps 0 points
3. Frans Malberhe 0 caps 0 points
2. Bismarck du Plessis (v-captain) 54 caps 40 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira 50 caps 10 points
Replacements:
16. Adriaan Strauss 30 caps 25 points
17. Gurthrö Steenkamp 46 caps 30 points
18. Coenie Oosthuizen 11 caps 5 points
19. Pieter-Steph du Toit 0 caps 0 points
20. Siya Kolisi 8 caps 0 points
21. Ruan Pienaar 71 caps 130 points
22. JJ Engelbrecht 10 caps 20 points
23. Willie le Roux 9 caps 15 points

Wales team for South Africa
Wales

15 Leigh Halfpenny,
14 George North,
13 Jonathan Davies,
12 Scott Williams,
11 Eli Walker,
10 Rhys Priestland,
9 Mike Phillips,
8 Toby Faletau,
7 Sam Warburton (captain),
6 Dan Lydiate,
5 Alun Wyn Jones,
4 Bradley Davies,
3 Adam Jones,
2 Richard Hibbard,
1 Gethin Jenkins

Substitutes: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Paul James, 18 Scott Andrews, 19 Luke Charteris, 20 Justin Tipuric, 21 Lloyd Williams, 22 James Hook, 23 Liam Williams

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:I find this "SA there for the taking" and blaming the ref to be a bit puzzling... SA scored 3 unanswered tries, with all of Wales' points coming from penalties awarded by... the ref. The structure of the game broke down and things became a bit scrappy, which worked in Wales favour imo. If SA had kept possession and kept to their game the difference would have been bigger. But keep on with all the one that got away talk...

Have to agree fully ! At no point did SA look like losing that game but all the talk is how Wales should have won this one etc 3 tries to 0 is a telling stat . Boks played poorly but won convincingly without the ball

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:I find this "SA there for the taking" and blaming the ref to be a bit puzzling... SA scored 3 unanswered tries, with all of Wales' points coming from penalties awarded by... the ref. The structure of the game broke down and things became a bit scrappy, which worked in Wales favour imo. If SA had kept possession and kept to their game the difference would have been bigger. But keep on with all the one that got away talk...

Hmmmnnn.. Irony or Contradictory

The Saint wrote:Come on Cas, the only difference Biggar would have made is throwing an interception pass to De Villiers....

Some people...  

any outside half, from sweeney to carter, can throw an intercepted pass, but most international class 10s will find routine touches from outofhand penalties and not throw suicide passes inside their twentytwo when under pressure

south africa were better than us today - look at the way they cnverted their opportunities

all i'm saying is, considering who we had on the pitch, this is a decent performance

to beat a side like sa, we'd have to have all our best players on, for 80mins, and be as savage as they are

Wouldn't want to be playing South Africa next. The Scotland game will be pretty awesome if Scotland chuck the ball about like they did today.

RDSguru wrote:

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:I find this "SA there for the taking" and blaming the ref to be a bit puzzling... SA scored 3 unanswered tries, with all of Wales' points coming from penalties awarded by... the ref. The structure of the game broke down and things became a bit scrappy, which worked in Wales favour imo. If SA had kept possession and kept to their game the difference would have been bigger. But keep on with all the one that got away talk...

Hmmmnnn.. Irony or Contradictory

Your comment makes no sense. Nothing got away from SA, they won? Not ifs or buts?

Wales were stuffed. Get over it. They can't beat a SH team.

feel sick after that match, Wales in that first 10 minutes through JD were making some brilliant breaks and seemed to be matching the SA physicality, however they turned it up a gear and through their two tries in quick succession and JD going off we lost our penetration. To be fair I don't think any of the players played badly as such and with such key injuries so early on I think we did well albeit with SA taking their foot off the pedal, we did well to contain them. Priestland I thought was average but the forwards didn't give him much of a platform and as a result the backs didn't really get any decent ball, and of the decent ball they got SA closed them down really well. I thought Hook did well and Hibbard and Warburton both played well in the pack.

In regards to Rolland he was poor but have never rated him and I think this match showed he is no longer up to international rugby (this is me obviously focussing on the infringements by SA which he missed although he undoubtedly missed many welsh infringements too)

overall, it was a terrible start and we did well to stop SA dominating us, but we need to be a hell of a lot more clinical, and really am tempted to bring in a few players, such as Rhodri Williams for LLoyd Williams, Cory Allen for Beck, Jordan Williams into the squad, Samson Lee in etc

I said all week that I thought SA would be to strong for us and to clinical for us which in the end they were.

JD looked really sharp and him and A Jones going off did affect us, any news on injuries yet?

Rolland was poor (as he is always) but he was poor for both sides. I wish we would learn to kick our chaes FFS, the Boks chasd all theirs and it paid dividends.

I thought B Davies played relatively well considering he was slated by most for being picked.

As most know I am one of Lydiates biggest fans but I think he was quiet than normal today and maybe Warbs and Tips should get a run out next week.

Taylorman wrote:

RDSguru wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

RDSguru wrote:

Taylorman wrote:tbh I think Wales uneven run against SH foe is partly due to that terrible pitch. It doesnt suit their ability to attack and its where they have to play all SH sides. Since 2010 theyve won 9 from 22 at home yet 12 from 25 away from home- including their matches in the SH, yet have a better record away.

Sure they clicked against England but at least in the 6N they get to play on better pitches.

Sounds silly but fix the pitch and their game just might serve them better. Its not the whole solution but I think its a factor. Wales are the most attacking side with the least attacking conducive home ground...charity begins at home I say.

But the opponents who beat us played on the same pitch! And in the case of SH Opponents you could argue they are even less used to it?

I think thats irrelevant. Wales style of play requires a firm ground so they start off the back foot immediately- every match. If you can't play on your own home ground the style you need to play as a side how can that be a good thing. We only have to play there once every two years or so- sure all sides might struggle there but Wales play every second match on it...

I do understand what you're getting at, and to a certain degree I agree regarding style. My argument regarding our opponents cannot be irrelevant because they were there to beat us on the very same pitch. It does not explain the stats wholly.

no never said it explained the stats wholly in fact I made an effort to partially 'blame' the ground. What I do know is if the ABs had to play on a pitch like that every single test at home theyd be livid and it wouldnt actually be acceptable. I dont buy this its bad for both theory. We have standards because we all want to see and play our best rugby.

And explain this then..

Since 2010 why is Wales the only side to have a better away win record than at home- 52% loss away vs 54.5% loss at home? NZ, Aus, SA, Ire, Italy, Eng and France are those I checked- all have a lower home loss %.

I say thats compelling given Wales are 2 time winning 6N holders in that period.

Ok, sorry didn't mean to accuse your statement of wholly explaining the stats, and like I said, I agree to a certain degree. ( should have used the word extent, 'cause agree and degree are to poetic!).

Anyway, I don't think you can discount the fact that both teams played on the same pitch either.

I can't explain the Home/Away stats.... but I'm sure the weight of expectation from the home crowd is a factor. And, since I appreciate the extent of the style v pitch issue, I do agree that it's also a factor.

I guess Gatlands Lions experiment of giving his players game time down under didn't work (yet)

Aus looked good today too

were there really 8,000 unsold tickets to this match? WTF? if i had known i would have come down just to watch it.

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:

RDSguru wrote:

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:I find this "SA there for the taking" and blaming the ref to be a bit puzzling... SA scored 3 unanswered tries, with all of Wales' points coming from penalties awarded by... the ref. The structure of the game broke down and things became a bit scrappy, which worked in Wales favour imo. If SA had kept possession and kept to their game the difference would have been bigger. But keep on with all the one that got away talk...

Hmmmnnn.. Irony or Contradictory

Your comment makes no sense. Nothing got away from SA, they won? Not ifs or buts?

You are correct of course, nothing got away from SA.

I've not mentioned an "If", however, you have.

8000!

were the regions playing in the Lv today?

Rollaind was not poor. He missed a couple of things but every ref does. I'm not his biggest fan but I thought her had a pretty good game today.

Wales need to change their approach. The most threatening was that passage of play in the first half where there was no structure.

To be honest I thought it would be a 15 point deficit so better than expected and a try that should have been ruled out. Should have been better, could have been worse.

quinsforever wrote:were there really 8,000 unsold tickets to this match? WTF? if i had known i would have come down just to watch it.

quins,

I am not surpried but the greedy bar styweards at the WRU really dont care as long as the coporate and hospitality boxes are full.

4 games in 4 weeks at this time year and in this current climate and they still try and milk it, we should stick to the 3 games.

Wales we're beaten mentally before they went on the pitch. As per usual when they face the SH.

Hubert Davenport wrote:Wales we're beaten mentally before they went on the pitch. As per usual when they face the SH.

It's were, not we're. Who's your team and how did they fair againt Wales in the last one or three games? Just wondering.

Irrelevant. Wales lost. Get over it. Warburton looked scared.

It is strange isnt it. Its as if gatlant feels the SH are better than the NH, therefore imparts fear in to his team against SH opposition, but when it comes to NH they are as good as the others against each other, yet against SH not even close.

Hubert Davenport wrote:Irrelevant. Wales lost. Get over it. Warburton looked scared.

It's very relevant, along with all my previous comments. Now answer my question please.

Hubert Davenport wrote:Wales we're beaten mentally before they went on the pitch. As per usual when they face the SH.

I agree in a way and you are right we need to start beating the big boy after all its getting boring beating England all the time.

Saint do you want to turn this in to an anglo welsh bash?

Wales beat England last game- Infact you destroyed us. Thats what makes all the other results so confusing. England can perform against all comers, You cant!

mystiroakey wrote:It is strange isnt it. Its as if gatlant feels the SH are better than the NH, therefore imparts fear in to his team against SH opposition, but when it comes to NH they are as good as the others against each other, yet against SH not even close.

Funnily enough, what ever GatlanD feels, it's also true.. The SH are better (at least the big 3)

But I think it's closer than you think, or at least what it used to be.

I think there is some truth to it, but I think the talking before the game must stop.

I know the captain and coach is ovbiously pressed by the media to answer leading questions at times and it is difficult for them to avoid it. But nevertheless it might be better to say less.

The thing about talking too much and hoying the team up it puts so much focus in their minds of they must beleive that ai wonder whether it doesn't have a negative effect in the greater scheme of things.

I think those first two tries in the first quarter perhaps took them by surprise and was a shock to their confidence.

I also think too much input from the media does not help the team as they create undue expectations on the players.

Just leave them be and let them focus on the processes that are necessary rather than the result.

mystiroakey wrote:Saint do you want to turn this in to an anglo welsh bash?

Wales beat England last game- Infact you destroyed us. Thats what makes all the other results so confusing. England can perform against all comers, You cant!

All comers except Wales... but no need to go Anglo Welsh.... we've been there and done that way to often

You think aus are better than England, France and Wales??



No i dont buy it. Your coach needs to start motivating you a lot better against certain opposition., Its his failing.

RDSguru wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Saint do you want to turn this in to an anglo welsh bash?

Wales beat England last game- Infact you destroyed us. Thats what makes all the other results so confusing. England can perform against all comers, You cant!

All comers except Wales... but no need to go Anglo Welsh.... we've been there and done that way to often

so you do want to go anglo welsh.v:boxing:  

Wales should be beating tge likes of SA in Cardiff. Thats the bottom line. I know SA are very good but so are Wales.

Missed opportunity.

For me the result I am concerned about is the Australia game. Why, well I always thought SA would be to strong for us as they are rightly the 2nd best team going at the moment.

Australia are the poorest I have known them to be for sometime now BUT most of the likley team know how to win against albeit in the red of the Lions IF we cant beat them in 3 weeks time then it is definately a mental thing.

Yep that game is huge as will be the NZ England game..

There is a lot more to both games than just rugby!!

mystiroakey wrote:Saint do you want to turn this in to an anglo welsh bash?

Wales beat England last game- Infact you destroyed us. Thats what makes all the other results so confusing. England can perform against all comers, You cant!

What an ironic comment. And can you tell me where I mentioned England? What another stupid comment from you.

 

The Saint wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Saint do you want to turn this in to an anglo welsh bash?

Wales beat England last game- Infact you destroyed us. Thats what makes all the other results so confusing. England can perform against all comers, You cant!

What an ironic comment. And can you tell me where I mentioned England? What another stupid comment from you.

 

 

I think its best if i dont point out the obvious you seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder,

Biltong wrote:I think there is some truth to it, but I think the talking before the game must stop.

I know the captain and coach is ovbiously pressed by the media to answer leading questions at times and it is difficult for them to avoid it. But nevertheless it might be better to say less.

The thing about talking too much and hoying the team up it puts so much focus in their minds of they must beleive that ai wonder whether it doesn't have a negative effect in the greater scheme of things.

I think those first two tries in the first quarter perhaps took them by surprise and was a shock to their confidence.

I also think too much input from the media does not help the team as they create undue expectations on the players.

Just leave them be and let them focus on the processes that are necessary rather than the result.

Bilt,

The clinical finishing of their chances was clearly the difference, we have seen what North can do but he hardly had the ball for long periods 1st time Habana had it and he ripped us to bits.

The kick chase game they play is far superior to ours and ours has always been poor.

JD going off made huge difference as he looked sharp early on but again we didn't take those chances.

Oh dear, the usual 'chip on shoulder' comment when somebody has been proved wrong. If you can't comment constructively then p*ss off from the thread, it really is THAT simple... Some people should learn to read.

GunsGerms wrote:Wales should be beating tge likes of SA in Cardiff. Thats the bottom line. I know SA are very good but so are Wales.

Missed opportunity.

What excatly do you base that on ? Their recent victories against SA , AUZ and the NZ ? Or their demolition of England ?

The Saint wrote:Oh dear, the usual 'chip on shoulder' comment when somebody has been proved wrong. If you can't comment constructively then p*ss off from the thread, it really is THAT simple... Some people should learn to read.

ok that chip has just got massive   

Wales looked rusty, but also the early loss of Davies, Williams and Jones definitely disrupted them, and you could see it, the backline didn't look comfortable at all. Hook also demonstrated why he is not starting, he does some bat Poopie crazy things at times.

Warburton had a great game I thought, won a fair few turnovers and penalties.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Biltong wrote:I think there is some truth to it, but I think the talking before the game must stop.

I know the captain and coach is ovbiously pressed by the media to answer leading questions at times and it is difficult for them to avoid it. But nevertheless it might be better to say less.

The thing about talking too much and hoying the team up it puts so much focus in their minds of they must beleive that ai wonder whether it doesn't have a negative effect in the greater scheme of things.

I think those first two tries in the first quarter perhaps took them by surprise and was a shock to their confidence.

I also think too much input from the media does not help the team as they create undue expectations on the players.

Just leave them be and let them focus on the processes that are necessary rather than the result.

Bilt,

The clinical finishing of their chances was clearly the difference, we have seen what North can do but he hardly had the ball for long periods 1st time Habana had it and he ripped us to bits.

The kick chase game they play is far superior to ours and ours has always been poor.

JD going off made huge difference as he looked sharp early on but again we didn't take those chances.

Agree with all of that bedford. I must admit the de Villiers and Fourie defensive communication and understanding was very poor today. A lot of gaps between the two of them.

mystiroakey wrote:

RDSguru wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Saint do you want to turn this in to an anglo welsh bash?

Wales beat England last game- Infact you destroyed us. Thats what makes all the other results so confusing. England can perform against all comers, You cant!

All comers except Wales... but no need to go Anglo Welsh.... we've been there and done that way to often

so you do want to go anglo welsh.v:boxing:  

Do we really need to   over T-shirts?

mystiroakey wrote:

The Saint wrote:Oh dear, the usual 'chip on shoulder' comment when somebody has been proved wrong. If you can't comment constructively then p*ss off from the thread, it really is THAT simple... Some people should learn to read.

ok that chip has just got massive   

Oh dear what a child, it's like a 30 year old talking to a 3 year old....

 

It was interesting to hear Martyn Williams comment after Davies' first break about how Fourie playing in Japan might not be upto the speed of test match rugby.

I just hope JD isn't too badly injured because with him and Roberts out we are poor in the centre.

Gents, keep it civil please.

The Saint wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

The Saint wrote:Oh dear, the usual 'chip on shoulder' comment when somebody has been proved wrong. If you can't comment constructively then p*ss off from the thread, it really is THAT simple... Some people should learn to read.

ok that chip has just got massive   

Oh dear what a child, it's like a 30 year old talking to a 3 year old....

 

I have no idea why you have just got so aggressive. You are projecting.

Could some one point out why this poster has just gone full on special?

Biltong wrote:Gents, keep it civil please.

Bilt could you please explain what exactly I have done to annoy this poster?

If not address it to him

Bullsbok wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Wales should be beating tge likes of SA in Cardiff. Thats the bottom line. I know SA are very good but so are Wales.

Missed opportunity.

What excatly do you base that on ? Their recent victories against SA , AUZ and the NZ ? Or their demolition of England ?

From my perspective I'm not sure what he could be basing that on. All bookies and pundits, the ones who actually watch Rugby, had SA down for the win and SA proved their worth. Also, while I think Ireland, England and France are good I don't either of those lot will beat SA or NZ.

mystiroakey wrote:

Biltong wrote:Gents, keep it civil please.

Bilt could you please explain what exactly you I done to annoy this poster?

If not address it to him

I don't know mate, just ignore him please

mystiroakey wrote:

The Saint wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

The Saint wrote:Oh dear, the usual 'chip on shoulder' comment when somebody has been proved wrong. If you can't comment constructively then p*ss off from the thread, it really is THAT simple... Some people should learn to read.

ok that chip has just got massive   

Oh dear what a child, it's like a 30 year old talking to a 3 year old....

 

I have no idea why you have just got so aggressive. You are projecting.

Could some one point out why this poster has just gone full on special?

Probably because you have difficulty reading and interpreting information. In other words, you severely lack cognitive skills. To make things worse, you made a false accusation against me, and can't see any of this. So I suggest you take my previous advice or forget this and take Biltong's advice.

ok no problem bilt

Biltong wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Biltong wrote:Gents, keep it civil please.

Bilt could you please explain what exactly you I done to annoy this poster?

If not address it to him

I don't know mate, just ignore him please

Biltong, I think the mods like I, can clearly see the people have created ID's (probably duplicate ones) to come on here and WUM other teams. Surely they should have action taken against them? Along with the posters who latch on by turning it into an anglo-welsh spat then have audacity to accuse another poster of doing that! I never mentioned a certain team in white anywhere on this thread.

The Saint wrote:

Biltong wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Biltong wrote:Gents, keep it civil please.

Bilt could you please explain what exactly you I done to annoy this poster?

If not address it to him

I don't know mate, just ignore him please

Biltong, I think the mods like I, can clearly see the people have created ID's (probably duplicate ones) to come on here and WUM other teams. Surely they should have action taken against them? Along with the posters who latch on by turning it into an anglo-welsh spat then have audacity to accuse another poster of doing that! I never mentioned a certain team in white anywhere on this thread.

Saint not sure whether you are referring to mystir, but just let it go please, I really am not in the mood to play Mod tonight.